AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
African Slavers did not not bring them to America. And the rest of the timeline are 100% due to white people... I mean, what's your point here?
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Are White People Responsible For American Slavery, Segregation, Mass Incarceration?
- Thread starter Marion Cobretti
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African Slavers did not not bring them to America. And the rest of the timeline are 100% due to white people... I mean, what's your point here?
OriginofHysteria
Banned
Keep in mind though that slavery isn't just a thing that white people made up. As wrong as it sounds, slavery has been on the backbone of a lot of if not all major civilizations dating back to ancient history. I think what makes this situation more noticeable though is the fact that the repercussions from the 18th century are still being felt in 2016.
PeskyToaster
Member
I think the person you are replying to is using a typical cop-out statement but this is pretty inaccurate. Europeans didn't really go far beyond the African coastline until the colonialism era. I don't think there's any evidence of what you're suggesting happening.
Yes but there are a couple key differences between what we will call ancient slavery and transatlantic slavery. One is that transatlantic slavery was a permanent condition that was also inheritable. Ancient slavery was often for a set period of time. Quite often successful people in ancient times were former slaves. It was also not race-based, a key component of transatlantic slavery. That kind of slavery and the idea of race came about at similar times and it's not entirely coincidental.
their point is "What About black on black crime"
The thing is, it doesn't really matter what people want. As much as we would all like this to not be the case, institutionalized racism is a real thing and is a product of a system that benefits all white people rather than a malicious few. Acknowledging this is a crucial step to starting a frank and honest discussion about racism. There's an entire thread of facts and figures here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=956524
Have you seen the time you get for getting caught with weed in some places?
That said, there are enough people who've been executed who turned out to be innocent. Why do you think it's any different for people who just do time?
Marion Cobretti
Member
Ok, so let's refer to them as the "All lives matter" type. Is that better?
The deck may be stacked, but it's not like white people are going around and forcing people to smoke weed.
At some point people have agency, even in an unjust system. It's kind of infantilizing to assume minorities are entirely helpless, no?
maquiladora
Member
This. Who else would be responsible? How is this even a serious question.
Obviously the oppressor is responsible for the oppression that they create.
"white people" is a very broad brush there. Do I a white person in the UK sat at my desk contribute to the mass incarceration of minorities in the US? No, infact i'm rather vocal in opposition of it, I just have very little influence.
This is a US problem created and perpetuated by the system in place in the US.
This is a US problem created and perpetuated by the system in place in the US.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Terrible thing is that large numbers of American Indians actually owned black slaves.
Yea segregation def didnt end in 1954, it was still going on in the late 1960's
or the what about black on black crime types. or the ones who dont acknowledge the history of black Americans and will be complicit in allowing things to continue as status quo.
Its crazy to me how fragile people are when it comes to this shit. like if you feel like you didnt have a role, okay cool so what are you doing to make sure this doesnt happen any more?
breakfuss
Member
I feel like this thread was specifically made to trap someone into saying this lol.
That's why I said language matters and can be distracting, because inevitably the problem becomes no longer about fixing systemic racism and more about whether or not white people feel guilty enough. White guilt doesn't solve a societal problem that requires multiple changes in education, discriminatory laws, etc.
You're making a lot of assumptions, bud. Your righteous anger isn't a valid excuse for blaming anyone and anyone you can.
PeregrinSe7en
Member
better
rokkerkory
Member
Yes for slavery and segregation.
Mostly yes for mass incarceration.
Mankind makes me so depressed sometimes.
Mostly yes for mass incarceration.
Mankind makes me so depressed sometimes.
Skellig Gra
Member
Yes, not sure who else it would be. Unless you want to blame the Brits.
Any evidence for that actually happening?
Any evidence for that actually happening?
OriginofHysteria
Banned
What do you expect people to do aside from vote for the politicians that will help in this regard, attending protests and advocating on social media platforms?
I think it is more accurate to say that the American government, which is mostly governed by white men, and the government and those individuals were responsible for the things in the OP.
Not accurate to say white people because most people, of any color, are not making these decisions. Though it is also fair to say that the majority of white people supported them when they were happening.
Not accurate to say white people because most people, of any color, are not making these decisions. Though it is also fair to say that the majority of white people supported them when they were happening.
MrPressStart
Member
as long as questions and discussions like this are posted... then it will never end. There are plenty of white people all over the world that had nothing to do with any of this. Bringing up questions where you are only looking for one answer and bashing people when they try to argue (wrong or right) a different point or side is pointless and doesn't help matters at all.
I asked the same thing last week: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1246087
It's not optimistic
More_Badass
Member
I don't usually enter these discussions, but I'm genuinely curious. Does "white privilege" only encompass white people? What about someone like me? I'm Puerto Rican (couldn't tell it if you saw me), my parents and I were born and raised in the Bronx, but we live upstate now. I sure have benefitted from being born here.
The people who did all that were white so, yeah. As for white people who benefit from the atrocities today? Well I don't think all white skinned people benefit from it. I, as a Finnish white man living in Finland don't feel like I or other white people in here benefit the atrocities done to black people. So I also don't feel guilt.
I absolutely agree with you and it's a number 1 problem we need to deal with. I just want to state that I don't think lumping people together for blame is a healthy path to go down.
soundscream
Member
"What about black on black crime?" : the origin story.
Hi i'm Caleb
Member
Where is the I didn't do shit...and I want change but just don't touch my priveledge because that's my normal line?? Ah nvm there it is.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Good morning
Just like Italians and Irish weren't originally recipients of white privilege because they weren't considered white but eventually were brought into the fold, you're seeing Asians and Hispanics increasingly being let into the White American Dream, especially as the Hispanic population grows. Black people though are gonna be left out in the cold until the end of time.
PrivateWHudson
Member
I feel like I've done my part in squandering as much white advantage as possible. The black families withing my social structure are more well off then me with better houses, cars, and vacations.
I found out recently that my great grandparents had a luxury vacation home in Ocean City, NJ with staff quarters and everything. A couple of generations later the best we can do is get a motel room for a long weekend.
Blacks are not expected to shoulder burden, but forced. White people have seen dividends for being white their entire lives, their going to have to give something up if change is ever to happen.
My favorite are people who like to pretend that there's nothing white or white passing folk can do so why bring it up.
Thank you for this.
OriginofHysteria
Banned
Definitely agree with you here. I'm Filipino and my parents immigrated to Cali in the 80s and I was born and raised in the suburbs of New Jersey. I probably benefitted from the same as you have. I don't think the guilt should just encompass white people.
maquiladora
Member
The question isn't just related to current incarceration.
British merchants were the largest participants in the Atlantic slave trade. It was extremely profitable for cities such as Bristol as the merchants brought back goods from the Americas with their now empty slave ships. Part of the foundation of Britain's wealth is the profits made from the slave trade and it's ancillary trading.
Once again first post nails it.
MrPressStart
Member
My sister in-laws Italian husband would beg to differ with you as would one of my best friends Javier. Both have trouble finding good steady work and both are educated and eager.
Seriously, when will I stopped being blamed for some assholes in the past? What happened was atrocious but I don't remember ever condoning it?
Mammoth Jones
Member
Nothing compares to chattel slavery. Nothing.
Are Whites historically responsible for these things? Yes.
Are Whites alive today? No, but....
I'd argue there's an obligation for everyone of every ethnicity to not stick their fingers in their ears and go "lalalala" and pretend the past doesn't effect the present.
Are Whites historically responsible for these things? Yes.
Are Whites alive today? No, but....
I'd argue there's an obligation for everyone of every ethnicity to not stick their fingers in their ears and go "lalalala" and pretend the past doesn't effect the present.
If you're white passing like me yes we benefit from some but not all white privilege. Usually anything involving people physically seeing us and assuming we're white. On the other hand, we don't benefit in job applications because of our names. (But might once we show up for the interview.)
Do not be complict when people in your circle of friends and family are being bigots or racists. Teach your children about race not be colorblind to it and understand why diversity matters and should be encouraged in all aspects of their lives.
I understand change in this country is slow democratically, but if you are really really about a free and fair country those things go a long way at an individual level.
I'm from Europe and I was taught in school that segregation ended in the late 60s.
(This black lady denying to leave her seat in a bus because she was black, riots, Martin Luther King, Civil rights activists....)
Regarding OT: Yes, this is a rethoric question, isn't it? With power comes responsibility.
(This black lady denying to leave her seat in a bus because she was black, riots, Martin Luther King, Civil rights activists....)
Regarding OT: Yes, this is a rethoric question, isn't it? With power comes responsibility.
If you want to play the historical blame game we all have blood on our hands. Gallons of it. Everyone has a relative who committed genocide, who had genocide committed on their people. Slavers and slaves. Hell I can trace myself back to a man famous for killing an "Indian" king in a minor colonial skirmish here in the US and more recently a member of the plains tribe.
The US government, run by white men, did all those things and more, genocide included. So has every other government on the planet if you go back far enough. We should be better. We can be better. Things are improving. People are still people though.
The US government, run by white men, did all those things and more, genocide included. So has every other government on the planet if you go back far enough. We should be better. We can be better. Things are improving. People are still people though.
TheFuzz
Member
I think it's a far more accurate assessment than lumping white people in a bucket. Generalizations like that are what started a lot of this.
OriginofHysteria
Banned
I would definitely agree with you there, and I'd assume that if you have good values then you'd pass that on to your kids as well. I think personally the media should be held responsible to an extent as well by how they portray black people. Like I don't want to watch the local news and have it be 90% stories of how a black person is wanted for armed robbery.
There is some if society deems you white. An anecdote of this is a Latino writer who went to south africa and had a nice taxi driver drive him far as hell out of the goodness of his heart then he tells the man he cant go into town because he killed a kefir(racial epithet) and had to lie low. I think just being aware of it is great even though you still may have times where you do not benefit it if say you start speaking spanish etc.
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