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[deli2000]

ITT: Oblivious white people thinking that ignorance on modern day racism & privilege isn't something that deserves to called out on and criticized because white feelings have prominence over black lives.

Spoiler

Now watch someone quote this post with some "two wrongs don't make a right, aren't you just being racist yourself?" BS.

 

[Viewt]

I don't usually enter these discussions, but I'm genuinely curious. Does "white privilege" only encompass white people? What about someone like me? I'm Puerto Rican (couldn't tell it if you saw me), my parents and I were born and raised in the Bronx, but we live upstate now. I sure have benefitted from being born here.

Your situation isn't much different from mine. My father is Cuban, but I look like a pretty generic white dude. So I'd say if, like me, people perceive you as white, then yeah, you benefit from white privilege.

It's easy to not notice, honestly, because white privilege mostly manifests itself when things don't happen to you. You lose your phone in public and someone doesn't give you the side-eye when you ask to borrow theirs. The woman who runs the corner store doesn't watch you as you browse through stuff. The bank doesn't grill you with constant, pointless questions when you apply for a business loan.

(Obviously these are things that happen, occasionally, to everyone, but I think we can all agree that they happen disproportionately to black people, and to other minorities as well)

We get to walk through life and get a fair shake. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes terrible, but on the whole, white life in America is fair. So a lot of us just figure this is how it is for everyone, and that minorities are just complaining about some old shit that isn't relevant anymore.

But black life and brown life is, all too often, unfair by design. The fact that we have black and brown millionaires and successes is a testament to how driven, talented, and intelligent these communities are, and could be, if we work together to level the playing field.

I'm a selfish guy. I wanna live in the best world possible. And the best world possible is one where Trayvon Martin gets to grow up, become a Nobel Peace Prize-winning scientist, and saves my life with a cure for whatever's gonna kill me.

 

[Marion Cobretti]

A better question would be: How can we as a society unite and figure out a solution to our divided country?

How about we start by ending mass incarceration and having the "all lives matter" types, acknowledge their white privilege and do something about it rather than trying to avoid feeling guilty for something they didn't do.

Just for starters.

 

[mjc]

Keep in mind though that slavery isn't just a thing that white people made up. As wrong as it sounds, slavery has been on the backbone of a lot of if not all major civilizations dating back to ancient history. I think what makes this situation more noticeable though is the fact that the repercussions from the 18th century are still being felt in 2016.

I would argue beyond that that it shouldn't have occurred at that stage of history, namely the 17-1800s. We should have been above it at that point in history.

 

[Iorv3th]

Ok sure, but what's it gonna take to get white people to address these things?

To me it seems like it's either one or the other, refusing to acknowledge white privilege, or refusing to acknowledge these issues due to white guilt.

I think white people are already addressing these things. It just depends on where you look. Not every white person is, but that doesn't mean none of them are.

I do think language matters and "White people being to blame" isn't really going to fix/solve anything. Especially when many 'white' people come from different countries and backgrounds and families didn't take part in any shape or form in slavery or political process that causes these problems.

Some may have even fought against these problems but not been successful in changing them.

 

[BokehKing]

I would definitely agree with you there, and I'd assume that if you have good values then you'd pass that on to your kids as well. I think personally the media should be held responsible to an extent as well by how they portray black people. Like I don't want to watch the local news and have it be 90% stories of how a black person is wanted for armed robbery.

Sometimes the media struggles for stories, no one cares about stories were cops are doing their job helping people stop from jumping off bridges, they only care to report stories of officers killing black men. Officers killing white, Asian and Spanish men too. Tragedy sells, mundane boring stuff like the winner of a local community race that saw a melting pot of contestants come together for a great cause won't even get a blip on the radar.

So yes you can put more than a little bit of blame on media, you can put a whole lot.

 

[Future]

Yes white people were responsible

Yes there is institutionalized racism as a result

Yes white people currently enjoy the privilege whether they realize it or not

No they do not need to feel guilty about it

 

[OriginofHysteria]

I would argue beyond that that it shouldn't have occurred at that stage of history, namely the 17-1800s. We should have been above it at that point in history.

Well that's also capitalism for you. Why pay a bunch of workers to work in the fields when you can just have people across the pond come and do it for free.

 

[Joei]

Wouldn't the mass incarceration thing have more of a socioeconomic relation? I'm from an area with a lot of poor people, and not surpringly a high crime rate. Lots of drug busts, robberies and you hear of a shooting in the Cleveland area all the time. I'd wager it's always from lesser well-off people who are more often than not a minority. Should we just let them not be imprisoned because of their ethnic background when the more telling factor is their income status?

 

[E92 M3]

How about we start by ending mass incarceration and having the "all lives matter" types, acknowledge their white privilege and do something about it rather than trying to avoid feeling guilty for something they didn't do.

Just for starters.

Those are not solutions that can be implemented - just idealistic statements. For one, I'd like to see privatized prisons heavily regulated by the federal government. The concept of a prison being owned by a private entity is baffling to me.

 

[sflufan]

Hell yeah, we are!

 

[platocplx]

I feel like I've done my part in squandering as much white advantage as possible. The black families withing my social structure are more well off then me with better houses, cars, and vacations.

I found out recently that my great grandparents had a luxury vacation home in Ocean City, NJ with staff quarters and everything. A couple of generations later the best we can do is get a motel room for a long weekend.

I want to tell you A LOT of your issues today, are as a result of politics for the past 50 years which has used black and brown people as boogymen and it has totally eroded the white middle class in the process a lot a lot of the rhetoric has killed so much you may feel some effects of it, but for a majority of minorities they suffer as well, and like even if there are a few well to do majority still is at the bottom in terms of average income etc as a whole.

Like you put a great example of great grand parents having that then now its a lot less today. a lot of that is based on how the middle class of today has been gutted.

 

[More_Badass]

Do not be complict when people in your circle of friends and family are being bigots or racists. Teach your children about race not be colorblind to it and understand why diversity matters and should be encouraged in all aspects of their lives.

I understand change in this country is slow democratically, but if you are really really about a free and fair country those things go a long way at an individual level.

It hurts hearing my dad talk about stuff. My brother and I tend to call him out on comments, but it's one of those set-in-his-ways kind of things. There's definitely a marked difference how my brother and I (I'm 24, he's 14) think about and discuss race compared to our father, and hopefully those are the kinds of generational changes that will continue into the future

If you're white passing like me yes we benefit from some but not all white privilege. Usually anything involving people physically seeing us and assuming we're white. On the other hand, we don't benefit in job applications because of our names. (But might once we show up for the interview.)

I've definitely heard stories from my parents of people acting racist toward them (motel front desk acting friendly with a white couple but all cold with my mom, stuff like that) but I've honestly never experienced stuff like that or if I did, I don't remember or realize it.

 

[Kumquat]

My family wasn't even in the country for most of that but somehow I get lumped in with those "white people". Ticks me off something fierce.

 

[BajiBoxer]

Seriously, when will I stopped being blamed for some assholes in the past? What happened was atrocious but I don't remember ever condoning it?

The majority of white people vote to keep institutional racism a thing and actively ignore the problems created for black people. Lets not act like this is all some ancient history. The legacy of American slavery didn't suddenly vanish with the emancipation proclamation.

 

[excelsiorlef]

My family wasn't even in the country for most of that but somehow I get lumped in with those "white people". Ticks me off something fierce.

You must feel so persecuted.

 

[Arctick]

Holy shit, just finished watching 12 Years a Slave, being pushed to tears for the last 15 mins of the movie, and then I see this thread. damn man
I'm a 23yo white male from Australia so i could not even begin to understand the pain black people in America and elsewhere have gone through throughout history. Learnt plenty in school about similar situations here with Aboriginals involving segregation and assimilation, so its pretty fucked up to see they are still more or less removed from 'regular' society, whether its by choice or not. Black people in America are reminded of this shit everyday though it feels.

White people have been doing this sort of shit in the past, and they are sure as shit are making life for black people today in one way or another.

Over time i've come to realise my parents are bigoted as shit (voting for Pauline Hanson in the national election held in the last month) and they aren't alone. It's been pissing me off how fake Australian society is, touting itself as multi-cultural when it suits them, then being racist as shit the next chance it gets. I'd imagine its the same sorta case in America.

 

[SamuelSupreme]

So you suggest most of the American prisoners are innocent?

If they are black...theres a good chance that they are.....

 

[Geist-]

Do not be complict when people in your circle of friends and family are being bigots or racists. Teach your children about race not be colorblind to it and understand why diversity matters and should be encouraged in all aspects of their lives.

I understand change in this country is slow democratically, but if you are really really about a free and fair country those things go a long way at an individual level.

Honest question, as someone who has tried to live by these ideals for as long as I've understood the problem, what percentage of white people are actually trying to work towards fixing these issues versus the percentage of white people who either ignore or perpetuate the problems?

I'm also curious what can even be done. The government on every level as well as the nation's media is obviously complicit in perpetuating these issues. It seems to me the only thing that can be done right now is wait for the old white racists to die off and let a hopefully more socially progressive generation move in. Because at the moment there doesn't seem to be a lot of options.

 

[Lime]

The people who did all that were white so, yeah. As for white people who benefit from the atrocities today? Well I don't think all white skinned people benefit from it. I, as a Finnish white man living in Finland don't feel like I or other white people in here benefit the atrocities done to black people. So I also don't feel guilt.

You are still part of a global system that privileges your identity in media and when you travel abroad. You do not face the same form of discrimination that non-White people (even non-White Fins) do, and you enjoy the benefits of the global White supremacy. The system bestows you with privilege, regardless if you want it or not.

I am not aware of Finnish colonial history though, but I do know that racism and discrimination against non-White people in Finland is alive and well: http://yle.fi/uutiset/racism_resear...astern_finland_are_subjected_to_abuse/6493243

 

[Count Dookkake]

Some white people, yeah.

 

[MrPressStart]

The majority of white people vote to keep institutional racism a thing and actively ignore the problems created for black people. Lets not act like this is all some ancient history. The legacy of American slavery didn't suddenly vanish with the emancipation proclamation.

Where is your proof of this? Where can you show me that the majority of white people vote to keep institutional racism a thing. I voter every time I have a chance and I don't recall seeing this on the ballot sheet.

 

[hodgy100]

The question isn't just related to current incarceration.

British merchants were the largest participants in the Atlantic slave trade. It was extremely profitable for cities such as Bristol as the merchants brought back goods from the Americas with their now empty slave ships. Part of the foundation of Britain's wealth is the profits made from the slave trade and it's ancillary trading.

yeah im not denying that, the actions of my predecessors is disgusting and still has repercussions to this day. I can only hope that all modern countries attempt to help those that aren't as well off

 

[deli2000]

My family wasn't even in the country for most of that but somehow I get lumped in with those "white people". Ticks me off something fierce.

How about you take some of that anger towards the institutions that allow systematic advantages based on skin color. Instead of people on an internet forum.

 

[Valhelm]

White people are certainly collectively responsible for white supremacy. Racism within the United States began as a system of white people oppression black and brown people. It was that clear-cut. Even poor whites, who suffered indirectly from slavery, largely supported these hierarchies because it gave them moral credibility over blacks.

Individual whites today aren't culpable in the creation of these institutions, but they still benefit from racist structures, even those which have been abolished.

 

[BokehKing]

The majority of white people vote to keep institutional racism a thing and actively ignore the problems created for black people. Lets not act like this is all some ancient history. The legacy of American slavery didn't suddenly vanish with the emancipation proclamation.

Someone needs to explain to me why institutionalized racism is only affecting African Americans and not other minorities?
Yeah yeah I read the Amriox thread the day of the Baltimore riots, but I don't see Spanish Americans having it this bad? Asians? Hell my friends that are black don't have at as bad as half these threads would lead you to believe. They come from great families, successful (my friends are, great jobs and careers) and have families of their own. Maybe that's from living in a melting pot where people are more accepted? Idk

 

[Viewt]

My family wasn't even in the country for most of that but somehow I get lumped in with those "white people". Ticks me off something fierce.

Neither was mine, but we still get to reap the benefits of being white in America. That doesn't mean you're responsible for slavery, but please keep in mind that there is a lot of racial injustice and cruelty TODAY, and that as part of the privileged race, we should all acknowledge the situation for what it is, and be receptive to criticism.

 

[pelicansurf]

Well. Duh.

Someone needs to explain to me why institutionalized racism is only affecting African Americans and not other minorities?
Yeah yeah I read the Amriox thread the day of the Baltimore riots, but I don't see Spanish Americans having it this bad? Asians? Hell my friends that are black don't have at as bad as half these threads would lead you to believe. They come from great families, successful (my friends are, great jobs and careers) and have families of their own. Maybe that's from living in a melting pot where people are more accepted? Idk

That's the thing, I'm hispanic and have run into exactly zero percent of these issues, even when getting pulled over by cops. However, my family is really well off, so I was afforded things that others could not, like nice neighborhoods, nice schools, and thus all of my acquaintances have been super nice. Probably the same deal with your buddies. However, this is a small percentage. Minorities in poor neighborhoods and bad areas, are more likely to run into racism and prejudice. If you're not around those areas, you're obviously not going to see it.

 

[E92 M3]

The majority of white people vote to keep institutional racism a thing and actively ignore the problems created for black people. Lets not act like this is all some ancient history. The legacy of American slavery didn't suddenly vanish with the emancipation proclamation.

Any links or studies for this? I don't think it's fair to just group white people like that - a large percentage of them want to end institutional racism.

 

[Iorv3th]

Well that's also capitalism for you. Why pay a bunch of workers to work in the fields when you can just have people across the pond come and do it for free.

Well nothing is free. Slaves had to be purchased and housed and clothed (especially after the protestant reformation and religion being there to make nudity a sin etc) and fed. Not arguing that slaves weren't cheaper. But cotton was a global commodity and traded from US to Britain and other countries as well. Even if they had just paid locals to do the work, there wouldn't have been enough to get the economy as big as it was at the time.

 

[Night Angel]

If they are black...theres a good chance that they are.....

Innocence is not the same thing as being stuck in a socioeconomic sinkhole where the only options seem to be crime or poverty (but usually end up being both). I wouldn't go so far as to say most black prisoners are innocent, but I recognize that many are incarcerated because they ran out of options (or never really had those options to begin with).

 

[platocplx]

You're making a lot of assumptions, bud. Your righteous anger isn't a valid excuse for blaming anyone and anyone you can.

I'm not trying to sugar coat this stuff anymore, even if you are not directly involved your invoking plausible deniability and that sucks.

Sure you weren't alive or born then to perpetuate that back then but if you are complicit and because of guilt wont act because people arent speaking to you nicely about ugly racism then what does that say about you?

You should feel something about it if you dont then there is no way people are going to take it seriously especially when many forms of racism today have evolved into dog whistles and biases that arent in your face racism.

Racism isnt nice its ugly as fuck. So being concerned more about language over just how ugly it has been and in ways still continues seems disingenuous to me. So if thats not what your not trying to convey then cool.

But if you dont feel like your obligated to be apart of the solution instead of aruging people arent being nice to you about it then I dont have anymore to say to you.

 

[KingV]

Blacks are not expected to shoulder burden, but forced. White people have seen dividends for being white their entire lives, their going to have to give something up if change is ever to happen.

The problem with this argument is you have a constructed the world as a zero sum game.
1) This is not necessarily true.
2) Good luck getting anything done with the argument "you have to give this up to give it to me"

We don't necessarily live in a world where making things fair to black people means taking things from white people. In fact, that is an argument that is going nowhere with the American people anytime soon, and I'd think hard about how to reframe it.

Specifically, you (in general, not you specifically) might want to talk about the correlation between poverty, low education, and crime rates, and how bringing families out of poverty and increasing access to education can create jobs, make cities safer and nicer, and improve the lives of children.

I'm a supporter of reparations, but how you talk about things matters just as much, or even more than what you are asking for.

 

[therealist]

Just because current day white people benefit from something doesn't mean that they had a hand in doing it.

Trying to assign culpability is pointless. It already happened, nothing you say or admit will change that now. The question is whether these things still exist, that's where there is debate. You can admit that white people were responsible for slavery, segregation, and mass incarceration, but still maintain that none of those things exist anymore. A minority of white people would argue that they were NOT responsible for slavery and segregation, but those don't exist anymore so it's a moot discussion.

 

[MrPressStart]

While African slave were the majority of the slaves in early America.... lets not forget that there were white slaves as well and black slave owners.

I just don't think its a fair title to generalize "white people".

 

[Switch Back 9]

As a 4th generation Canadian of Irish heritage that votes progressive and takes an active role in supporting thing like BLM through social media and covering stories while in Journalism school?

No, I am in no way, directly or indirectly, responsible for the American race problem. My skin colour doesn't mean anything.

 

[Aikidoka]

Since these problems are systemic then it should be obvious that the social majority is responsible.

 

[Hazzuh]

Are Germans responsible for the Holocaust?

 

[BajiBoxer]

Where is your proof of this? Where can you show me that the majority of white people vote to keep institutional racism a thing. I voter every time I have a chance and I don't recall seeing this on the ballot sheet.

The majority of whites have voted Republican every election for the last 50 years. The Republicans support institutional racism. Even a lot of Democrats do, though generally not on the same level.

 

[excelsiorlef]

As a 4th generation Canadian of Irish heritage that votes progressive and takes an active role in supporting thing like BLM through social media and covering stories while in Journalism school?

No, I am in no way, directly or indirectly, responsible for the American race problem. My skin colour doesn't mean anything.

Do you know who are the only people who get to say their skin colour doesn't "mean" anything?

White people

The majority of whites have voted Republican every election for the last 50 years. The Republicans support institutional racism. Even a lot of Democrats do, though generally not on the same level.

Pretty much this.

Without minorities Democrats wouldn't win elections.

 

[Valhelm]

Neither was mine, but we still get to reap the benefits of being white in America. That doesn't mean you're responsible for slavery, but please keep in mind that there is a lot of racial injustice and cruelty TODAY, and that as part of the privileged race, we should all acknowledge the situation for what it is, and be receptive to criticism.

Right. I'd guess that the majority of white America's ancestors arrived after the Civil War, but they still benefited from the lingering ghost of slavery. Many of the Italian, Irish, Jewish, and Slavic immigrants who came to America in the later 19th century fought to gain membership of the oppressor class. After "becoming white", many individuals from these groups began excluding black and Chinese workers to preserve their new power. Even, unfortunately, many labor groups fought to preserve the status of the white worker over the black worker. Marxist-leaning labor groups like the Wobblies were so radical because they opposed racism along with wage slavery.

 

[MrPressStart]

The majority of whites have voted Republican every election for the last 50 years. The Republicans support institutional racism. Even a lot of Democrats do, though generally not on the same level.

Being Republican has nothing to do with being racist... seriously... come with something better than this. There may be some racist republicans, but that doesn't mean shit in the big scheme of things.

 

[Zips]

Too much focus on blame - not enough focus on actual (practical, not vague) solutions.

'White people' will never accept blame as such a singular entity does not exist. Those who are trying to should easily see how even in this thread it has already caused split reactions, and a burgeoning hint of us vs. them.

The acts of the past should be remembered, and the echoes of it into today recognized, but enacting solutions to problems will be a lot more effective if people do not antagonize each other needlessly. A person whose mind is open and willing to listen is not something anyone should stop by generating a natural defensive reaction.

White individuals in the past were the drivers of American slavery, yes. OK - now what?

 

[therealist]

Do you know who are the only people who get to say their skin colour doesn't mean anything?

White people

You should open your horizons and travel to a non-white majority country in Asia or Africa. I am pretty sure Japanese people living in Japan can say their skin color doesn't matter.

 

[The Albatross]

American slavery, American segregation, absolutely. And I think those two things have contributed to the system of mass incarceration which has disproportionately targeted minorities.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Being Republican has nothing to do with being racist... seriously... come with something better than this. There may be some racist republicans, but that doesn't mean shit in the big scheme of things.

I'd argue this isn't entirely true and that a lot of people do support the republican party due to racism (Just see Donald Trump and his supporters). That said, I do think a lot of it is ignorance over how certain aspects of the republican party disproportionately affect black people.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You should open your horizons and travel to a non-white majority country in Asia or Africa. I am pretty sure Japanese people living in Japan can say their skin color doesn't matter.

I mean we're clearly talking about America/North America here, come on.

 

[Lime]

While African slave were the majority of the slaves in early America.... lets not forget that there were white slaves as well and black slave owners.

I just don't think its a fair title to generalize "white people".

.

"What about black on black crime?" : the origin story.

white feelings have prominence over black lives.

Statement of the thread so far and concise description of contemporary racial discourse.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

But you benefit from it, which makes you a bad person, I guess.

Yes, the people creating/perpetuating these institutions were mostly white in America, as the people in America were mostly white. I recognize the privilege I have due to the color of my skin. Where do we go from here?

Be aware of your privilege when you write, when you speak, and most importantly, when you vote. Think about what kind of effects policies and decisions can have on people who don't look like you. No one 's asking every white person to have Lincoln's courage because that's an impossible standard to live up to, but it'd be good if you tried.

 

[platocplx]

Honest question, as someone who has tried to live by these ideals for as long as I've understood the problem, what percentage of white people are actually trying to work towards fixing these issues versus the percentage of white people who either ignore or perpetuate the problems?

I'm also curious what can even be done. The government on every level as well as the nation's media is obviously complicit in perpetuating these issues. It seems to me the only thing that can be done right now is wait for the old white racists to die off and let a hopefully more socially progressive generation move in. Because at the moment there doesn't seem to be a lot of options.

I want to say that over time it may happen, Like for black people in general I dont believe people were really even close to free until the 70s, then the 80s - 90s drugs set a lot of stuff back. Even with the civil rights act we are barely over half a century away from that.

Honestly I believe it will take as long as it took when alot of this shit occured. So barring a crazy radical right comeback in everything and society is more left leaning than right.

I really think a lot of this may come to a head by the year 2270, approximately 300 years removed from 1970. ill be long dead sadly. But ill do my part.

Like yes things are better than they were back in the 60s, but there are still themes that still persist notably police brutality we are about 24 years removed from the LA Riots and yet there still persists a lot of dumb shit that occurs.

I think that how more connected the world is may help alot especially for white people who never ever interact with black people possibly will see them as boogymen, I think a big part of issues is that people dont interact with minorities enough and they form misconceptions and some more extreme lead to racism.