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[BlazingRain]

why should i have to "prove" every statement i make? lol if you want to 'call me out" then perhaps you should provide some proof that I'm wrong? otherwise it's not much of a 'call out', is it? lol.

Vaan is known for going over several personality changes over the course of development, originally written as a rugged and world worn character until the developers reconsidered the target demographic and Vaan was rewritten to be more effeminate

from the final fantasy wiki. There, am i now 'allowed' to express my opinion that final fantasy characters look focus tested or do i need more "proof"?? lol

That quote doesn't prove focus testing.

 

[Skilletor]

Those people need to prove that claim. Earlier in this very thread someone claimed FF XV has already cost 600 million dollars to develop. A mod here once claimed Tri-Ace was dead.

This board spreads just as much disinformation as any other, and no one should just accept something because the mods here have allowed it to be said.

Duckroll is probably the mod to which you're referring and he was just posting his own guesses based on the current market.

The estimate about ff15 was also just speculation.

Quotes from NPD are different from speculation.

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

What about Kuja?

Because I keep reading in GAF about how FFIX was a return to form and the best FF ever but no one ever brings Kuja as an example of effeminate design.

Looks like, when it comes to FF, it's only androgynous and effeminate when it's on a game you don't like.

I personally have nothing against effeminate, or even flamboyantly dressed characters. I do like Amano and as many posted, Tomomi Kobayashi has a very flamboyant style. Hell, I love Kuja's look. For being designed by, I think it was Itahana, he looks very much like something Amano would crank out(a mixture of Eastern and Western style).

Metrosexual, I'm less a fan of. Of course, in the end, if the game's good, I don't mind if the character's rugged or chic, worn or flamboyant.

I see at least 5 characters in this pic that resembles FF XIV ARR style.

Spoiler

*runs*

because MMO.

No, seriously, there's really good ol' old FF design in XIV.

I love ARR's style, but looking at the majority of art from 1.0 looked lackluster by comparison. IMO, it looked like an upgrade to FFXI(which I wasn't really much of a fan of it's visual look). ARR is when, visually, something really interesting happened with Eorzea.

Then people would say:

The guys are to effeminate...
He has long hair, he looks so emo...
Look at those clothes ridiculous...
Wish we had a futuristic sci fi FF....

Repeat.

People are already saying that. Hell, people are complaining that there's more medieval FFs than sci-fi ones, and that's why there should be more sci-fi FFs coming out. LOL. If people are going to say all that which you posted, at least give them good reason to do so by releasing a game like that.

 

[djtiesto]

I think they look fine - and no matter what, they still feature some of the most beautiful and jaw-dropping worlds in gaming... it's just everything outside of the graphics (and music) leaves much to be desired with the FF series nowadays...

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Better than the bald, white male protagonist the industry seems infatuated with.

But yes, they could tone it down a bit with their effeminate males. Otherwise I find their designs to be exceptionally good (Kimarhi, Vivi, Sora, Balthier, Basch, Sazh, etc.).

 

[TheGreyHulk]

I'm perfectly fine with the way out is on ff xv

 

[Desi]

More about world building:

My more recent issue especially considering FFXIII & XIV: the world doesn't feel cohesive. A whole world like ours isn't the same everywhere but in a much smaller JRPG world I'd expect a similar visual identity between location to location. XII did well with this as the world is only a region, XI too as each spot was distinct but still very middle lands; with Zilart tech throwing things for a loop as ancient ruins do. XV looks like it will follow the rules of the latest entries as it is common knowledge that the attacking and the defeated nations placed more importance on military than "quality of life."

Characters: This might be abit funny; The Bouncer and its Dog Street wardrobe is more interwoven in the world than the recent XIII family.

 

[The Silver]

I really wish FFXII featured the judges a lot more, loved those characters and the designs are incredible.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I don't know how can anyone say that Berserk designs are Japanese. A lot of it is heavily inspired from non-japanese 1980's films


or from the real world, locations all over the place, but none japanese.


some other

Inspiration doesn't matter - it's still an iconic manga franchise, created by the Japanese. End of story.

 

[BlazingRain]

Duckroll is probably the mod to which you're referring and he was just posting his own guesses based on the current market.

The estimate about ff15 was also just speculation.

Quotes from NPD are different from speculation.

Here's a few things he said:

tri-Ace is pretty much on their last legs. They've been taking any sort of work they can just to pay their employees but nothing makes money and no one wants to work with them anymore.

Give up on the developer.

And here's what another mod said:

Nobody is left who wants to pay tri-Ace to make big, expensive, nice-looking RPGs. Nobody's left who wants to deal with the logistics and risk of having them make smaller-scale handheld/mobile RPGs, and from the sales of their recent efforts there don't seem to be too many people who want to buy them.

He was stating it as a matter of fact. In fact, when I called the claim out as improbable, I had people responding to me and calling me delusional, despite the fact that I actually had evidence, whereas duckroll and the mods had none.

Of course, when the claims proved untrue, the thread was quickly closed and forgotten. The fact remains though that this board has just as strong a hivemind as most others, and the heads of that hivemind aren't infallible. They get things wrong all the time, and unless someone can provide proof of these supposed NPD sources, I have no reason to believe them, and neither should anyone else.

In fact, a brief search on Google didn't turn anything up other than a few GAF threads with mods twisting facts in an attempt to portray FF and JRPGs dead (isn't that new!).

 

[BlazingRain]

I really wish FFXII featured the judges a lot more, loved those characters and the designs are incredible.

I agree, but it's obvious the development issues of that game left its story unfinished or rushed. A Matsuno game wouldn't trail off in story like that, and I suspect there was more planned for them that didn't make it out unfortunately.

 

[BlazingRain]

More about world building:

My more recent issue especially considering FFXIII & XIV: the world doesn't feel cohesive. A whole world like ours isn't the same everywhere but in a much smaller JRPG world I'd expect a similar visual identity between location to location. XII did well with this as the world is only a region, XI too as each spot was distinct but still very middle lands; with Zilart tech throwing things for a loop as ancient ruins do. XV looks like it will follow the rules of the latest entries as it is common knowledge that the attacking and the defeated nations placed more importance on military than "quality of life."

Characters: This might be abit funny; The Bouncer and its Dog Street wardrobe is more interwoven in the world than the recent XIII family.

Traditional JRPGs always have wildly varying worlds. Your expectation otherwise makes me wonder how many JRPGs you've played. Look at Midgar compared to Kalm compared to the Gold Saucer. There's far less cohesiveness between those worlds than FF XIII, where Cocoon and Gran Pulse, when taken alone, are among the most cohesive worlds in a FF, and there's no reason to expect them to be similar to each other.

 

[Skilletor]

Here's a few things he said:





And here's what another mod said:



He was stating it as a matter of fact. In fact, when I called the claim out as improbable, I had people responding to me and calling me delusional, despite the fact that I actually had evidence, whereas duckroll and the mods had none.

Of course, when the claims proved untrue, the thread was quickly closed and forgotten. The fact remains though that this board has just as strong a hivemind as most others, and the heads of that hivemind aren't infallible. They get things wrong all the time, and unless someone can provide proof of these supposed NPD sources, I have no reason to believe them, and neither should anyone else.

In fact, a brief search on Google didn't turn anything up other than a few GAF threads with mods twisting facts in an attempt to portray FF and JRPGs dead (isn't that new!).

I don't take issue with anything they've said. It all rings true to me, but you are welcome to your own interpretation. They've gone from making star ocean, valkyrie profile, radiata stories, and others to a spinoff of a Sega ip. The only work they've gotten has been helping with 13-2 and small handheld games.

I have no interest in a conversation about 'hiveminds,' so you go your way and I'll go mine.

 

[BlazingRain]

I don't take issue with anything they've said. It all rings true to me, but you are welcome to your own interpretation. They've gone from making star ocean, valkyrie profile, radiata stories, and others to a spinoff of a Sega ip. The only work they've gotten has been helping with 13-2 and small handheld games.

I have no interest in a conversation about 'hiveminds,' so you go your way and I'll go mine.

Whatever dude. Claiming no one wants to work with them was obviously wrong, but if believing the mods are always right is that important to you, believe on.

 

[Skilletor]

Whatever dude. Claiming no one wants to work with them was obviously wrong, but if believing the mods are always right is that important to you, believe on.

Cheers.

 

[Jennipeg]

I think there is some Gackt dna in Squall as well but that's up for debate.
Rinoa might "be" european but she looks exactly like the typical ideal well brought up jdrama pure girl. The way she looks is pretty much ideal japanese waifu material(for japanese men) and yes she does look japanese (and not euro at all). I don't actually mind her as I do like 90's japanese beauties such as Nanako Matsushita.

Honestly I don't mind the character designs in FF8 so much, I think squall and edea are very well designed, I don't like it that all the characters are handsome and I would have preferred some age variation.
It's apparent to me that FF8 took a step toward mainstream jpop and was heavily influenced by contemporary jpop fashion and celebrities. FF X caters more to the harajuku and cosplay crowd(jpop and fashion changed between ff8 and 10).
FF 12 gave me hope that it was only a transitional stage but ofcs they had to shoehorn in jdrama puppy eyes vaan and later completely return to the jpop crap with ff XIII.

FF XV is pushing the jpop envelope even further. This time around though it's more fashion conscious but overall less over the top. I'm not sure what to think about it. Bringing in designers could be a cool idea but unless you are a runway model you wouldn't wear clothes from the same designer from top to toe. That makes it look fake, and when all of them do it makes the cast look like a gang of host boys getting together for a pamphlet photo shoot. We haven't seen much yet so I'm still open to the possibility of it turning out well, we'll just have to wait and see.

Was Gackt a thing in '97/8? How old is he?.......I just looked it up and he is 40, 40! He is ageless, i'm kind of impressed and disturbed. Maybe they liked his clothes, he seems to wear a lot of black. So yeah they could have put some Gackt fashion in. I don't think Rinoa looks Japanese, it never occured to me before, I read things like this and worry that there is something wrong with my eyes, I think I should get them checked lol.

I don't mind the all young cast, because it makes sense with the plot (maybe not the plot twist but that's a whole other thing) I think they offset that by having Laguna and co playable. You seem to know a lot more than me about Japanese pop culture, I was 12 when VIII came out and didn't have a clue lol. It never struck as being Japanese influenced, I always took VII and VIII as the more western influenced games. They followed it up with 2 games that looked nothing like it, so I never noticed a trend. To me, it's X-2 onwards. And even then it was totally different in XII so it doesn't seem to be gradual increase of Jpop in the games, they just throw it in now and then, but that's just how I see it. Is there another series that divides fans as much as Final Fantasy? lol

I understand your concern about XV, that is the most blatent use of popular fashion, I don't mind the look though, we'll see. If the game is good, this sort of thing is easily forgiven.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Traditional JRPGs always have wildly varying worlds. Your expectation otherwise makes me wonder how many JRPGs you've played. Look at Midgar compared to Kalm compared to the Gold Saucer. There's far less cohesiveness between those worlds than FF XIII, where Cocoon and Gran Pulse, when taken alone, are among the most cohesive worlds in a FF, and there's no reason to expect them to be similar to each other.

Honestly, the way FFXIII handles environmental transitions in some of the early parts is really baffling. Specifically with Sazh and Vanille.

Going from a scrap filled wasteland to the treetops of a government controlled wildlife reserve(with no indication of how they got there at all), which happens to be literally right next to the port with boats that go to the amusement park? Seriously?

Light and Hope's early stuff had similar problems, though at least they had the decency to not place Palumpolum literally right next to the Gapra Whitewood(granted, the proximity between both locations still feels fairly contrived).

 

[TnK]

I would rock the fuck out of Noctis' gear if it wasn't like 1500 bucks for the shorts and 1000 for the shoes.

My man! Just curious, which part of the world are you from where dressing well is seen as metrosexual or gay? No need to give the exact country. Where I am from, this is seen as a positive thing for men.

@The Berserk post: That is some incredible stuff, though I only knew one inspiredlocation posted, it is cool to see that there is so much.

You know what would be cool in an FF game? They hand you out an inexperienced young main character with the typical JRPG traits, then somewhere down the game, like 30% he grows up, there is a time skip, and becomes a veteran like Auron. Always wanted FFX to be about Auron. I never minded Tidus' design in FFX, but the one thing that pissed me off about him was how whiny he was towards his dad, and that all the shit his dad gave him was deserved. (I. was 14 at that time too lol). Something like a Gurren Lagann would be awesome.

Marketing would only show the typical hero, but then, boom, things change. The transition on the other hand would need to be performed well or else we would see a reverse MGS2.

 

[Skilletor]

My man! Just curious, which part of the world are you from where dressing well is seen as metrosexual or gay? No need to give the exact country. Where I am from, this is seen as a positive thing for men.

@The Berserk post: That is some incredible stuff, though I only knew one inspired location posted, it is cool to see that there is so much.

I'll pm you so as to not go off topic.

 

[BlazingRain]

Honestly, the way FFXIII handles environmental transitions in some of the early parts is really baffling. Specifically with Sazh and Vanille.

Going from a scrap filled wasteland to the treetops of a government controlled wildlife reserve(with no indication of how they got there at all), which happens to be literally right next to the port with boats that go to the amusement park? Seriously?

Light and Hope's early stuff had similar problems, though at least they had the decency to not place Palumpolum literally right next to the Gapra Whitewood(granted, the proximity between both locations still feels fairly contrived).

Cocoon was supposed to be like that though. It's an artificial "moon," not a natural environment. As such, there shouldn't be any expectations that areas transition like they do on earth (although mountains nearby by picturesque forests isn't exactly unrealistic anyway). They got to the Waterscape from the Vile Peaks because the Vile Peaks are nearby the Sunleth Waterscape. Here's a map:

 

[BlazingRain]

My man! Just curious, which part of the world are you from where dressing well is seen as metrosexual or gay? No need to give the exact country. Where I am from, this is seen as a positive thing for men.

@The Berserk post: That is some incredible stuff, though I only knew one inspiredlocation posted, it is cool to see that there is so much.

You know what would be cool in an FF game? They hand you out an inexperienced young main character with the typical JRPG traits, then somewhere down the game, like 30% he grows up, there is a time skip, and becomes a veteran like Auron. Always wanted FFX to be about Auron. I never minded Tidus' design in FFX, but the one thing that pissed me off about him was how whiny he was towards his dad, and that all the shit his dad gave him was deserved. (I. was 14 at that time too lol). Something like a Gurren Lagann would be awesome.

Marketing would only show the typical hero, but then, boom, things change. The transition on the other hand would need to be performed well or else we would see a reverse MGS2.

BoF 3 handled it well (albeit from kid to teen/young-adult).

It can be done, and it'd be immensely interesting, but in this current environment what's more likely is that the adult saga would be a sequel and not part of the original game.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I personally have nothing against effeminate, or even flamboyantly dressed characters. I do like Amano and as many posted, Tomomi Kobayashi has a very flamboyant style. Hell, I love Kuja's look. For being designed by, I think it was Itahana, he looks very much like something Amano would crank out(a mixture of Eastern and Western style).

Kuja was designed by Hideo Minaba, but some of the official Kuja illustrations are probably by Itahana.

 

[TnK]

BoF 3 handled it well (albeit from kid to teen/young-adult).

It can be done, and it'd be immensely interesting, but in this current environment what's more likely is that the adult saga would be a sequel and not part of the original game.

Hmm, maybe I should give BoF3 a go then.

A sequel where the main protagonist becomes older may lose some of its impact, but still really interesting.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

If Nomura was involved at least three characters would have an identical face to that of Cloud/Lightning/Noctis.

And what other FF artists don't produce similar looking characters lmao

 

[Desi]

One of the good things for the cast in FFXV is that they will all follow a similar wardrobe. It'll help build a unspoken connection between the group.

Traditional JRPGs always have wildly varying worlds. Your expectation otherwise makes me wonder how many JRPGs you've played. Look at Midgar compared to Kalm compared to the Gold Saucer. There's far less cohesiveness between those worlds than FF XIII, where Cocoon and Gran Pulse, when taken alone, are among the most cohesive worlds in a FF, and there's no reason to expect them to be similar to each other.

Does the answer I give really matter especially when we are discussing the FF series? I could have played hundreds or just three. This is the internet.

But just saying, I did pull out the Bouncer as a reference in a design working with the game world.

Cocoon was supposed to be like that though. It's an artificial "moon," not a natural environment. As such, there shouldn't be any expectations that areas transition like they do on earth (although mountains nearby by picturesque forests isn't exactly unrealistic anyway).

Understood and that is why it is completely jarring. Near impossible to go through Cocoon and not be confused at how all of this goes together like the map of Disney World, which it pretty much was. Guess the problem was they went with that look and it bit them in the ass.

 

[BlazingRain]

One of the good things for the cast in FFXV is that they will all follow a similar wardrobe. It'll help build a unspoken connection between the group.


Does the answer I give really matter especially when we are discussing the FF series? I could have played hundreds or just three. This is the internet.

But just saying, I did pull out the Bouncer as a reference in a design working with the game world.

Understood and that is why it is completely jarring. Near impossible to go through Cocoon and not be confused at how all of this goes together like the map of Disney World, which it pretty much was. Guess the problem was they went with that look and it bit them in the ass.

It didn't bother me (the end of the Vile Peaks is more picturesque anyway), but I can see why it'd be jarring.

Really, the bigger problem for me was things like putting the Gapra Whitewood right before the Sunleth Waterscape. Don't know who thought it'd be a great idea to have two forest areas one after the other.

 

[BocoDragon]

I do think XIII's development involved a certain amount of artists generating large amounts of random environments that looked cool. They then chose the best ones and stitched them together, with little room for any clever transitions between them.

Remember when they said something like "we generated even more environments for XIII, but many of them were left on the cutting room floor" ? That's evidence of this haphazard process of generating random level assets, with little regard to cohesive world building.

 

[BlazingRain]

I do think XIII's development involved a certain amount of artists generating large amounts of random environments that looked cool. They then chose the best ones and stitched them together, with little room for any clever transitions between them.

Remember when they said something like "we generated even more environments for XIII, but many of them were left on the cutting room floor" ? That's evidence of this haphazard process of generating random level assets, with little regard to cohesive world building.

Not really. Movies do the same thing. More games should be willing to cut content, to be honest.

 

[Meccanical]

Not really. Movies do the same thing. More games should be willing to cut content, to be honest.

Equating video games to movies kind of makes me want to ignore your point.

 

[Retro_]

Equating video games to movies kind of makes me want to ignore your point.

Why?

There's a difference between equating the mediums as a whole to each other, and comparing elements of the development process that exist in both video game creation and film making. (I.E editing)

 

[Moon_frogger]

That quote doesn't prove focus testing.

Nope but nor does it paint a pretty picture of their design process. And vaan still looks focus tested. Go ahead and keep 'calling me out' and 'proving me wrong' with all your fascinating points though.

 

[BlazingRain]

Equating video games to movies kind of makes me want to ignore your point.

That's so asinine. Both are creative endeavors that require iteration and editing. This desperate attempt by some gamers to pretend that games are completely separate from movies just comes across as sad and childish.

 

[BlazingRain]

Nope but nor does it paint a pretty picture of their design process. And vaan still looks focus tested. Go ahead and keep 'calling me out' and 'proving me wrong' with all your fascinating points though.

Sorry to burst you bubble, but absolutely no AAA game gets developed without thinking about the target market.

There's a difference between that and focus testing, which if SE performed we'd like hear of it.

 

[MilkBeard]

Here's a few things he said:





And here's what another mod said:



He was stating it as a matter of fact. In fact, when I called the claim out as improbable, I had people responding to me and calling me delusional, despite the fact that I actually had evidence, whereas duckroll and the mods had none.

Of course, when the claims proved untrue, the thread was quickly closed and forgotten. The fact remains though that this board has just as strong a hivemind as most others, and the heads of that hivemind aren't infallible. They get things wrong all the time, and unless someone can provide proof of these supposed NPD sources, I have no reason to believe them, and neither should anyone else.

In fact, a brief search on Google didn't turn anything up other than a few GAF threads with mods twisting facts in an attempt to portray FF and JRPGs dead (isn't that new!).

I remember that topic, and I was pretty vocal about disagreeing with duckroll. But I was well aware that duckroll was just making speculation based on information he (or she?) knew, so it wasn't that big a deal.

I was actually pretty happy that Tri-Ace has a pretty big project to work on now. But in a way, duckroll was somewhat accurate, mainly because it seems like no publisher wants to give Tri-Ace money to work on their own IPs anymore. I do hope I'm wrong about that.

And, I think duckroll was eating a little crow after that announcement from Sega. Secretly in the corner.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Sorry to burst you bubble, but absolutely no AAA game gets developed without thinking about the target market.

There's a difference between that and focus testing, which if SE performed we'd like hear of it.

Look, you're a terrible poster. I could link you to an article about the focus testing process square enix uses but I don't think I'll waste any more of my time on you.

I will leave you with one thought. Good focus testing isn't completely obvious in the end product. Nor does it undermine and smother creative vision.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Cocoon was supposed to be like that though. It's an artificial "moon," not a natural environment. As such, there shouldn't be any expectations that areas transition like they do on earth (although mountains nearby by picturesque forests isn't exactly unrealistic anyway). They got to the Waterscape from the Vile Peaks because the Vile Peaks are nearby the Sunleth Waterscape. Here's a map:

I get that, but even then everything comes off as super convenient and overall inconsequential. Like, Sunleth Waterscape is a nature reserve that Sanctum keeps closed off to pretty much everyone, yet Sazh and Vanille are just suddenly there after getting through the Vile Peaks, and then someone decided that it would be super cool to build a public port literally right next to the government facility that nobody is allowed into? Wut?

Then there's the fact that the Gapra Whitewood has a front door that apparently anybody can walk through(the very first scene in the area is just Light and Hope casually entering like whatevs), even though it is also a restricted area controlled by the government(and one with military applications, at that).

 

[MagnaderAlpha]

I get that, but even then everything comes off as super convenient and overall inconsequential. Like, Sunleth Waterscape is a nature reserve that Sanctum keeps closed off to pretty much everyone, yet Sazh and Vanille are just suddenly there after getting through the Vile Peaks, and then someone decided that it would be super cool to build a public port literally right next to the government facility that nobody is allowed into? Wut?

Then there's the fact that the Gapra Whitewood has a front door that apparently anybody can walk through(the very first scene in the area is just Light and Hope casually entering like whatevs), even though it is also a restricted area controlled by the government(and one with military applications, at that).

The points Spoony makes in his review vids are hilarious. While he nitpicks a lot of little things, he's kinda spot on with some of the stupid things about FFXIII's world.

 

[jackal27]

What the series needs is VARIETY.

Final Fantasy has always been about new worlds, every numbered entry. A few entries in the past had a similar look to them, but everything has looked WAY too similar for way too long these days.

What made 6,7,8,9, and even 10 and 12 cool was the fact that they all look completely different from one another.