Supermanisdead
Member
I also picked up on the Cupid sighting in one of the scenes. Simply because she was dressed too nice to be a regular extra. I knew something was up.
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ARROW Season 3 |OT| Welcome to the New Age
- Thread starter Clevinger
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PHOENIXZERO
Member
I don't care about the hate, this episode had me at the boxing glove padded arrow. I noticed Cupid in those scenes, I thought she really stood out. Oh and another new Roy flip and this time, as silly as it is, was actually effective this time! Don't get the complaining about the Roy/Sara thing, they explained it and are addressing something that was talked about last season and would be bitched about if they never did address what Roydraged Roy killed a cop. The story of the episode was all tied together.
I can't hate this season too much so far, season two had the momentum of the first season's finale with its events and characters, including Slade who was established in the first season and allowed them to build up on it in the second season. Season three is pretty much a "fresh" start with new characters that to be established and built up or rebuilt. Not to say it's been perfect or anything, there's plenty of legit gripes (flashbacks not working as well, Felecity's "origin", Komodo, ect) to have but to call it the worst season when we're just about a quarter of the way through it's premature.
I'll save my judgement until we get through episodes 12 to 14.
She got kidnapped by MTV and is now trapped in the Scream TV series.
I can't hate this season too much so far, season two had the momentum of the first season's finale with its events and characters, including Slade who was established in the first season and allowed them to build up on it in the second season. Season three is pretty much a "fresh" start with new characters that to be established and built up or rebuilt. Not to say it's been perfect or anything, there's plenty of legit gripes (flashbacks not working as well, Felecity's "origin", Komodo, ect) to have but to call it the worst season when we're just about a quarter of the way through it's premature.
I'll save my judgement until we get through episodes 12 to 14.
She got kidnapped by MTV and is now trapped in the Scream TV series.
Your retort would be perfectly valid, except for one problem: They ARE using an identical concept (or nearly so) to the outsiders.
Both the League of Assassin's and Outsiders are an ancient organization with mysterious, otherworldy powers (Weapon totems = lazarus pit), full of warriors, in which family bloodlines are a major factor in it's descendants.
The only major difference between them is that the Outsiders is a collection of different clans while the League of Assassin's is more unified, but if you're seriously going to argue that this one detail is something that would absolutely crush their writing, I find that excuse highly unbelievable.
Honestly, the show would be pretty much identical if you replaced every mention of League of Assassin's with Outsiders. Sara got trained by the staff clan or whatever, was friend to Nyssa who is in the Archer clan, and by not allowing Nyssa to take revenge, the other clans have a beef with Ollie.
Even the Tommy plotline coming up can work. Just have one of the Totem weapons have healing abilities.
The only real difference here would be that the show wouldn't be mooching off Batman's fame like a leech. It'd stand on it's own, and it would actually develop it's own mythos more. You say I like Lemire's writing. That may be true, but that's not what this is about. It's about Arrow getting some goddamn integrity and actually helping make Green Arrow a recognizable hero in his own right and not Discount Batman.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
... They've been building up Ra's involvement in this show since pretty much the start, his showing up and the LoA's involvement has been a given since they decided to use the Dark Archer given Merlyn's comic history.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
They should have ended the episode with a logo change to the boxing glove arrow.
and next weeks arrow logo should change to a heart shaped arrow logo.
and they should continue to do that everytime they can think of a fun way to manipulate the arrow logo.
and next weeks arrow logo should change to a heart shaped arrow logo.
and they should continue to do that everytime they can think of a fun way to manipulate the arrow logo.
Jest Chillin
Member
This is all well and good but the show needs it's casual viewers more than its hardcore. Characters and organizations that no one knows about draws far less than more notable characters and organizations. Berlanti's job first and foremost is get people to watch the show and keep them watching. Not to transform a characters reputation (one that it's had since it's creation in the books).
Whatever simarities there are and wherever the show goes from here, there's no problem with how it's been handled thus far and your suggestion that they cram in another or a different concept into S2 is a poor one.
Boogalogist
Member
Oh shit! Roy's flip did something today!
And
And
no, Roy didn't kill Sara.
If people are watching 3 seasons, which is over 35 hours of watching just so you know, I think it's pretty safe to say they're pretty much hooked. Using Batman's Rouges is understandable as an attention grabber sort of deal, but you are supposed to grow out of it as the audience is sufficiently invested. If you use them perpetually because they think the show can't survive without, not only are you being insanely derivative and creatively bankrupt, but it also shows how little faith you have in the writing. It's pathetic.
Besides, think about what kind of audience you are suggesting here. You are talking about a fan is one that REFUSES to watch unless it has batman villains they already know, but is simultaneously okay with them being such vastly different characters than the ones they are used to. I certainly don't remember deathstroke being such a whiny emo for this random chick Shado that was never characterized. I don't remember Brother Eye being some douche hacker that is just stealing stuff. If these people really want to see Batman villains that bad, there are a LOT of better options for Batman fans. Sorry, I just don't buy the arguement that 3 seasons in, they are suddenly going to drop the show they've invested so much time in just because they are doing a villain they aren't familiar enough to recognize but unfamiliar enough to ignore the inconsistancies in the characterization. And if it's such an issue....well, that's why I am saying they should have established them in season 2, so the Outsiders wouldn't have been unfamiliar.
And it IS the job of adaptations to help morph the character into the public domain. A lot of the changes made in comics were due to adaptations. Harley Quinn would have never existed if not for TAS. I probably wouldn't be a batman comic fan at all if not for TAS, and the burton movies introducing me to the concepts first. Any adaptation of a comic bears a lot of responsibility to justify the portrayal of that character.
And you keep saying it's impossible to work in the Outsiders in season 2, but you still haven't given a real reason why. If it's the time constraints, see above posts, I've already explained how "We film all year round" isn't an excuse. If you're going to make the claim I'm wrong, give an actual reason why.
Two meh eps in a row.
And I'm now like 90% convinced that Thea killed Sara. Reasons: 1) It's really, really fucking stupid and makes no sense, so I could see these writers doing it. 2) The big twist being Thea is probably the only payoff worth stretching this lame murder mystery storyline out for half a season unless they Lazarus'd Tommy or something. Ra's ordering the hit would not be surprising at all. 3) It creates the most drama between characters. Laurel will want justice, whatever that means to her now, creating conflict with Oliver. Nyssa and Ra's/The League will want to kill Thea. Oliver has to protect her from them. Thea becoming a full fledged villain creates a ton of drama with Oliver and Roy. Oliver protecting her will probably fracture the team, with Diggle and Felicity not agreeing with it.
Yuck.
And I'm now like 90% convinced that Thea killed Sara. Reasons: 1) It's really, really fucking stupid and makes no sense, so I could see these writers doing it. 2) The big twist being Thea is probably the only payoff worth stretching this lame murder mystery storyline out for half a season unless they Lazarus'd Tommy or something. Ra's ordering the hit would not be surprising at all. 3) It creates the most drama between characters. Laurel will want justice, whatever that means to her now, creating conflict with Oliver. Nyssa and Ra's/The League will want to kill Thea. Oliver has to protect her from them. Thea becoming a full fledged villain creates a ton of drama with Oliver and Roy. Oliver protecting her will probably fracture the team, with Diggle and Felicity not agreeing with it.
Yuck.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
FlashbladeGAF
Member
I recently binged watched Arrow right before Season 3 began.
To me the flashbacks this season are similar to how Season 1 began. Season 1's flashbacks were very short and very uneventful (until episode 5 turned up the heat a bit with the torture). Season 2's flashbacks had the luxury of continuing from the momentum of the Season 1 finale as well as continuing the journey/survival of the characters and motivations already established.
Season 3 is in a new setting, and a new story and new characters. It's gonna take time to set everything up (characters, motivations, overall threat) especially with the limited time they have for the flashbacks.
Give it time and I'm sure the flashback's overall story will deliver (if the writer's A team is still in charge).
That being said, I will admit that eagerly watching and wondering how an untrained shipwrecked Ollie will survive on the island with a hooded stranger and a group of mercenaries sparks greater interest than his hunt for Kelly Hu in a white wig.
EDIT: Boxing Arrow was epic and thanks to Gaf and the Flip Age, I cheer whenever Roy does a flip.
Jest Chillin
Member
People drop shows that have been on for multiple seasons all the time. That's exactly how most shows get cancelled. It's also really weird to use terms like derivative and creatively bankrupt when we're talking about a show based on a previously existing IP. There's room for creativity there (which is what they've done with Sara, Diggle, Felicity, Slade, and countless other characters) but you're knocking it because they're not villains that belong to Arrow... as he's depicted in other media.
A lot of people get bored quickly when characters don't interest them. S2 of Arrow featured Deathstroke and was raved about. S1 of AoS featured.. name drops of well known characters and was called boring. S1 of Flash so far is being praised for diving straight into his well known villains.
It's not the job of adaptations but can sometimes be the goal. Here though, it seems clear that Berlanti's vision of Arrow is one that borrows from the mood of Nolan's Batman films. And people seem to enjoy that. I don't see a problem.
I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it would be a bad decision to try to haphazardly throw something in there like that because he read a cool concept in a single issue of GA one June afternoon. TV Shows are more structured than that. There's a lot of factors that have to be accounted for when filming stuff that was already planned well ahead of time. To toss stuff in last minute is irresponsible and needlessly risky.
People usually drop shows because they become bad. I've never once heard of a person who stuck with shows for several season, but dropped it the moment a new character they did not recognize showed up. That's absurd. And creative bankruptcy is concerned with how you use the characters rather than what you use. You can use an existing IP in a creative way, or you can use a novel character in a tried and tired way. I say this is creative bankruptcy because, according to your argument, the only reason they are afraid of doing something new is because they think they'll lose the most fickle fans in the world. They are, according to you, using batman not because they feel they are the right villains to build up Green Arrow into a better hero, but because they feel they have gun to their head if they don't. And, again, if they merely went out of their way to establish the Outsiders beforehand, they wouldn't even be new by season 3, mitigating the apparently oh so huge risk.
Flash villains are hardly well known beyond the already established Flash fanbase that they already have. And S2 premiered with the unknown Absorbtion Man and everyone raved about him. Deathlok wasn't known, but now he has fans (despite his poor design). Marvel is actually introducing a LOT of unknowns who are being well recieved because they are well written. For fucks sake, Coulson himself was a brand new character introduced into the MCU in the movies, proved popular in a few scenes, and they gave him a goddamn show for it. The most popular characters on that show are mostly all new people. Yeah, AoS had some hickups, but once it got it's ball rolling and became actually good, people stopped caring whether they already knew the characters because they were interested in finding out about them.
The mistake in your reasoning is this: Yes, a recognizable character has a higher chance of capturing an audience in terms of marketting. But that doesn't mean a new character is significantly less capable of doing so. And the recognition is to put asses in seats and give the show a chance. Whether those asses stay in those seats depends on whether the onscreen character is good. If you have a shitty portrayal of the recognized character vs a good portrayal of the new character, by and large, the new character is going to win out. And given that this is season 3, the asses in the seats are pretty firmly in place at this point.
Because it's not the mood that's being borrowed, it's the surface characters. If I put Darth Vader in my Bugs Bunny story, I'm not borrowing the mood of star wars. Besides, that mood kind of ended at season 2. And besides that, what does it matter? You can have your gritty Nolan mood and still keep the outsiders. That the guy is going for a nolan mood is completely irrelevent to the point of making the franchise stand on it's own.
No, no it wouldn't. Like, they are already doing the same exact thing, except with League of Shadows. And writing can change in the process. Like, say for some reason the audience was REALLY unreceptive to the Outsiders. Okay, instead of the planned seasonal arc, they get offed in episode 5, and you do something else. That's what some of the best shows on TV have done. It's complete bullshit to say that somehow taking 20 minutes of a 1000 minutes of screentime is somehow going to catastrophically ruin what would have otherwise been a strong narrative. No one here is going to deny that Arrow has a shitload of filler. They can use that for something better. And if it doesn't pan out and people are just THAT uninterested that they're saying they'll drop the show if they use the outsiders, fine, but I seriously doubt it would happen like that. There's really no excuse.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Jest Chillin
Member
You specifically said, "If people are watching 3 seasons... I think it's pretty safe to say they're pretty much hooked." I countered with "people stop watching shows all the time."
I also never said "they're afraid to do something new." Multiple times you've attributed things to my stance that I've never said. It's disingenuous at best. Stop doing that.
What I said was that they've chosen to go with well known villains because they're a better draw for casual fans. I'm not wrong.
Flash villains are well known for Flash. GA villains even for GA are really awful. But the Arrow writers are doing what they can. Nobody raved about Absobtion Man. People were surprised he was even there because AoS used notable characters so sparsely in S1. Deathlok was known before hand and Coulson was a well loved character from the movies, hardly the same thing as a character created in a TV show. And there's still a good segment of people that want to see more notable characters in AoS and AoS has responded by actually adding more notable characters.
Getting asses in the seats is paramount. You can't hold viewers that you never grabbed in the first place. Also, it being Season 3 currently has little meaning when you were talking about implementing The Ousiders in S2.
Deathstroke, Merlyn, Ravager, Isabel Rochev, Vertigo, Bronze Tiger, Clock King, Deadshot, Komodo, etc.. are not Batman characters. The comparison of Arrow to Batman has to do with GA's origins basically being "Batman with a bow" and Arrow's mood, some lines, and some plot devices coming straight out of Nolan's Batman movies.
Your original argument was about taking a concept shown in GA in June 2013 and introducing it into S2 of Arrow which started Airing in October of the same year. The start filming well before the premiere. ALL tv shows do. If they're going down the road of The Outsiders, they've only started that this year. When they've had a lot more time to figure out what elements, if any, they'll utilize. They also have the benefit of having a lot more source material to crib from if they so choose.
Garrett 2U
Member
I actually really liked that episode.
I think Wild Cat is a pretty cool character, and Laurel is so much better this season.
It was cool how they started calling Roy 'Arsenal'
And the way they integrated the boxing glove arrow into the episode was perfect
I totally noticed Cupid in the crowd, but at the time I didn't know it was her. I just thought she looked out of place. Turns out she was a significant character, cool!
I think Wild Cat is a pretty cool character, and Laurel is so much better this season.
It was cool how they started calling Roy 'Arsenal'
And the way they integrated the boxing glove arrow into the episode was perfect
I totally noticed Cupid in the crowd, but at the time I didn't know it was her. I just thought she looked out of place. Turns out she was a significant character, cool!
CreeperBlocks
Banned
Overall I think the Episode was fine. The Boxing Glove Arrow was Great and, a Flip that actually was helpful was great too..I think things will Ramp up soon. it's just going to be a slow build up to the mid season finale. I will say this.. I wish Arrow was More of a Wise Crack than Serious. Like that's how I always saw the Green Arrow in the comics.
I need some Legit Shook Moments in this season.
I need some Legit Shook Moments in this season.
And I think it's disingenuous to imply that when I said "they are pretty much hooked" to mean "They will never ever stop watching the show". I think you know very well I just meant people are not likely to stop over fickle reasons like they'd be more likely to if they just happened to start watching the show.
And it's not that they're a better draw for casual fans, they are a better draw for ALL fans. However, as stated before, it's the writing that gets people, casual and hardcore, to stay. The audience that will suffer through a terrible portrayal of their favorite character is very small. The audience that will drop a good portrayal of a character they were not previously aware of is also very small. And people who are watching season 3 are not likely to have started watching it then and have likely seen the last 2 seasons.
To say that it's not worth trying new creative venues on the very small chance a new kind of villain will fail in a show that's been running strong for 2 seasons and is coming on it's third is the creative bankrupcy I was referring to.
Okay, now you're just making shit up. The Outsiders are currently well known as GOOD GA villains. If Flash is a success because "they use flash villains well known for flash", then the Outsiders fit that role for GA. And they, like Absorbtion man and Deathlok, are now kind of well known in the comics. And I certainly saw people raving about Absorption man, so idk where you were. His special effects were excellent and he had a very intimidating presence. And are you saying Absobtion man and Deathlok are supposed to be well known characters for the wider audience? The vast majority of people watching AoS are people who are fans of the marvel movies, not the comics. Most of the characters there, including AM and DL, are new to the vast majority of people.
And my point about Coulson is that new things can come into their own. Not in the show, but he was established in the movie universe. He was new THERE, and people liked him, so he grew. That's how all new characters work. That's how the Outsiders can work. If your argument is that season 3 can't work because they're not established, then fucking establish them, which was perfectly doable (see bottom to see repeated argument for that why)
Obviously not all of them are (though the Clock King is, as is Deadshot), but a good deal of them are or are closely associated (Deathstroke, Bronze Tiger). Firefly, Dollmaker, Brother Eye, Huntress, Royal Flush Gang and, obviously, Ra's al Ghul are all batman villains.
But Arrow needs to be built on his own villains. I don't care about Arrows mood. Some plot ideas of Batman are also kind of ubiquitous to superhero comics in general. But villains ought to be his own where he can find them so that he can build his own identity in the public domain.
Unless all the filming and production was done before the premiere (it wasn't), they could have worked it in for the latter episodes. How many times do I have to repeat this simple point. They don't HAVE to include the Outsiders from the first episode. If your 12 month filming schedule is accurate, they could have done it in any time in the latter half of the season. And no matter how many times you say it, writing is not a balancing process of 21421 plates where if JUST ONE SINGLE THING doesn't go EXACTLY as planned and is changed, everything is fucked up. Some of the best shows changed things midseason, ffs.
So, for about the 50th time, I don't buy that, even using the limitations you suggested, your argument is valid. If everything you said about time constraints is accurate...they still had over 500 minutes of screentime to make it happen. That is A LOT. Because it's not like Arrow isn't wanting for filler here, dude. There are whole episodes you could surgically remove without having a major impact on the narrative. Using one of those to establish a new villain would be a good use of their screentime. Even if you think the Outsiders had no chance of taking off (absurd as that notion is), at best, it's an opporunity squandered that was instead spent on Thea and Laurel's inane babbling or Roys roid rage or Slade doing something pointless.
L4DANathan
Member
So, when are Tommy and Sara coming back to life? Seriously, they're 3/5 on resurrections, they can do better.
Edit: Make that 3/6, we're missing Shado, too.
Edit: Make that 3/6, we're missing Shado, too.
They'll redo Winter Soldier, but with Tommy. And it will be amazing.
Jest Chillin
Member
You attributed meaning to my statement that was never there. I answer both your literal statement and your implied statement. People drop shows all the time AND people tend to leave when they find characters boring. I'm not being disingenuous at all.
You've complained about Slade's portrayal.. but you're still watching. Meanwhile AoS had a lot of really good original characters but ended up losing a lot of it's viewerbase and is now struggling to get them to return. It's also not a small chance that new characters will fail. It's much higher risk. This is also why comic book movies have been mining the same characters over and over. The portrayal of an well known character may not live up to expectations but it will still do fairly well. A new character has an uphill battle, especially when they're being compared to already established characters.
The Outsiders War as a concept is exactly how old? Because the original Outsiders don't appear to have anything to do with Lemire's concept. A 1 year old run does not suddenly make those characters a well known aspect of the GA Rogue Gallery. Not when there's a myriad of other villains that have been around for decades.
Coulson was new to the movies yes. As a side character. Not a main protag or antag. There's a huge difference in the risk you take when talking about Main vs Side.
Clock King's longest iteration has been as an GA villain. Deathstroke's a Teen Titans villain who has been both a GA and Batman villain, so his association is fairly equal there. Arrow, as shown by it's success, does not "need" to be built on purely his own villains. That's a desire that you have specifically. The shows success proves that it's decisions are working just fine.
I didn't say 12 month filming schedule. I said they film most of the year.
Scripts are written well in advance of filming. Filming is what's on a tight schedule and that primarily has to do with Budget. A show that has lots of stunts, costumes, sets, and if necessary CGI, needs lead time to create these things. The plans for the overall arc help determine the episode to episode budget. Changing things midseason risks throwing these things off. Going over budget and missing deadlines is a really easy way to get fired.
It doesn't matter if you buy it or not. You're talking about screen time without taking into consideration what goes into the production behind that screen time. The time and effort it takes to make sets, costumes, cast roles, and scout locations not to mention what effect it has on the story pacing and plot to start throwing new stuff in (that was never planned for) mid-season. There's a difference between starting as a procedural and then moving heavily serial or going from a relatively slow pace to a faster pace with more action beats and straight up tossing new plot elements and characters into already established arcs. The likelihood of everything feeling jarring or disjointed is much higher. And what's the payoff? A few hardcore fans appreciate that there's more original Arrow enemies while the casual (who far outnumber the hardcore) can't tell the difference and don't care either way.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Miles Quaritch
Member
Jesus, dat overbearing Oliver hypocrisy. It was insane, like listening to the talking heads on FOX News and wondering how they can't realise how stupid they sound.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
All of the Roy flip gifs need to be edited to show Roy flipping the world instead.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I did like the arsenal tease though. Very nicely done.
Miles Quaritch
Member
By the way, the woman in the flashbacks helping Ollie to remember, she's from Wolverine, right?
In that case, you're statements are nonsequitors. I never said people 'never drop shows', nor do have I said they find boring characters compelling. I'm not sure what these statements are retorts to if not those insinuations. Considering you were responding to "By season 3, they're pretty much hooked'". Now, if you took my sentences literally like you say, apparently shows have physical hooks, which is news to me and many people should check themselves for physical injuries caused by show watching.
However, as I said before, I can't see an interpretation of my statement that doesn't naturally translate to "If people have made it to season 3 of a show, they're not going to want to leave unless a major factor comes into play" vs people who are just starting off shows and are not invested in it, so they leave for trivial reasons.
As for the statement of "people tend to leave when they find characters boring", I'm not sure where I stated anything resembling an opposite point of that. In the whole of our discussion, I never stated, implied, or insinuated in any way that I want the characters to be boring. I just want them to be true to Green Arrow.
It's not like I'm contributing to the ratings. My friend watch DVR'd episodes with me at her house. And since then, I've never hidden my opinion of this show from anyone who asked me, which I doubt added any incentive to view it. And you should know I am an anomaly. I watch, read, play, and otherwise consume a LOOOOOOOOOOT of stuff I dislike, for various reasons. Believe me, if I were a normal person, I'd have just said this show blows, ranted about it for maybe a paragraph, and stopped watching.
And the fact is that if new characters were as great a risk as you are implying, that they were so impossible to create, we would not have new shit in general. Even within Arrow, Diggle would have never been created because "New Character? OH NOES". Now Diggle is not only big here, but also in the comics. Coulson would have never been created. The entire AoS show would be populated only by known characters. The fact that it's not a perfect success doesn't change the fact that it is a success. Yes, having an established fanbase helps. I never denied that. But this is not some herculean task of epic proportions. Nor as risky. People don't respond strongly to the outsiders? Okay, cancel them and go with plan B. That simple.
All these motherfuckers have to do - THE ONLY THING - is write them well. Or atleast appealingly well enough that people enjoy them. Arrow, to my bafflement, is a popular show, and people really liked Slade. The grand arc of season 2 was about him. Slip in the outsiders as a developing subplot and write them well. Make them intriguing, and come season 3, they would have had a hit on their hands.
Look dude, the Green Arrow history isn't littered with great runs of epic proportions. I'm sure there are good comics, but I seriously fucking doubt that anyone but hardcore fans like Parallax could a green arrow miniseries or run that was exceptional. The Outsider's recency is their strength. The Arrow Show has breathed life into Green Arrow like he never had it before. Because of that, DC felt comfortable giving him Lemire, who went on a really good run. Anyone who follows the comics is going to know the outsiders because it was the current GA comic that was worth a damn.
Good point. Too bad I haven't suggested they be written in as a subplot only about 509325 times.
It seems your only concerned with the material success it's producers write.
I'm concerned with it's legacy. If there is anything good that has come of this show, it is, as explained earlier, that it's success allowed DC to market GA in a way they would not have done before. It's success allowed Lemire to exist. It's a symbiotic nature. The comic feeds the established fanbase of the show, the show feeds the comic, the comic offers new villains for the show, which the show takes to a wider audience. I don't really care about lining the pockets of the producers and I'm not sure why you do unless your one of them.
For me, I want more good stories. For example, here's one way this could have gone. Arrow takes the outsiders concept and is successful with it. This causes DC to demand Lemire finish his incomplete run of GA. Lemire writes more awesome stories. I win. The show can further expand the good stuff he brings to a wider audience. You win. The audience likes it. The producers win.
But for that to happen, they have to take a miniscule risk and push the show to do more to distinguish Green Arrow as his own superhero and not second hand Batman. And having Ra's al Ghul take the lead does not do that.
Yeah, you said about a year, so I just averaged it out to it being 12 months. If it's less, then that's even more in my favor, since they could be less advanced in the series than I thought. Scripts can be rewritten up until they are actually onset for filming. One movie famously wrote it's script WHILE it was filming (and it wasn't some low budget thing no one cared about. It was the PotC sequels. While it may explain why it was badly written, the fact that that was even allowed to happen at such a high production makes the notion that Arrow can't be rewritten pretty far in advance absurd). I can understand that they run a tight ship, but if they film for most of the year, and there are 23 weekly aired episodes (not counting any breaks it takes between that time, then that means by the first episode airs, they must be around halfway done with filming the season. Which means there are still 11-12 or around that episodes that are still not set in stone.
And i've said this about a hundred times now, but it does not require a lot of work. At all. Like, have a 2 minute scene where Canary warns Ollie about this wierd Weapon Totem organization that was interested last she heard of him. THat would be bare, bare minimum effort, but taht's literally all it takes, if they really went out of their way to half ass it. Two minutes of foreshadowing, building suspense, and there you have your first building block. You don't have to change costumes, you don't have to have a new location, change the budget, or move any mountains. That is literally all the fuck you need and you are telling me that's not doable in 5 months before the first episode even airs? Bull. Shit. You are wrong.
Cornballer
Member
Veelk and Jest Chillin: At this point, if you'd like to continue the debate, please just take it to PM. It's becoming a big distraction in the thread. Thank you.
Will do.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Thought she looked familiar.
She also looks so much better here than she did in Wolverine. Maybe it's because her hair is down?
written as i was watching the episode:
Finally Diggle has...what...a balaclava? at least is something
someone shut up Laurel
ooooohhhhhhh snap punching glove arrow
Laurel trainer is also a vigilante
go away Laurel
Roy beta version without flip option
Roy flip
cool guys don't look at explosion
I'm cupid, stupid...this will be interesting
Finally Diggle has...what...a balaclava? at least is something
someone shut up Laurel
ooooohhhhhhh snap punching glove arrow
Laurel trainer is also a vigilante
go away Laurel
Roy beta version without flip option
Roy flip
cool guys don't look at explosion
I'm cupid, stupid...this will be interesting
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I don't like Roy / Arsenal. Or maybe I just don't like how Colton Haynes plays him, nor how he looks in that ridiculous mask.
The Arsenal I know of is a lot more abrasive and asshole-ish. I want that guy.
The Arsenal I know of is a lot more abrasive and asshole-ish. I want that guy.
He's worn it before hasn't he?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
The thing is, no one called out Ollie being a totally hypocritical douche about it. They just ran with it.
But the entire last season was about the tension that he was a killer that wanted to be a hero. They devoted an entire season to him learning this lesson. How the fuck did no one bring that up? Laurel should have fucking decimated him with that.
It didn't sit right with me. The show had no problem bringing it up before.
Yeah I really thought this was wack. A simple, 'Like you haven't killed anyone before!' would have been enough.
Okay, I'm at Season 2 Episode 16 right now, and this season is so much better! Wow, there's some great scenes and setups, and I love the editing and camera work in some places.
Right now I'm at the point were Diggles is working with the Suicide Squad.
One question, was that Harley Quinn I heard behind the closed door when the members were introduced?
Right now I'm at the point were Diggles is working with the Suicide Squad.
One question, was that Harley Quinn I heard behind the closed door when the members were introduced?
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Crossover sounding awesome.
We now have a Captain Boomerang, a Bronze Tiger, and a Deadshot. I want a good Suicide Squad episode!
Nah I liked it. I think this season has been pretty good so far, better than 1 but 2 is still superior.
a secret-boss
Banned
This was my fear after last season that with the absent of Wade this season will be average/boring
Or the writers just switched to Flash
Or the writers just switched to Flash
Miles Quaritch
Member
So
Roy is now officially going to be called Arsenal
Interesting.
This is what I'm thinking.
- Status