Support NeoGAF

[Spring Drive]

Can we stop pretending HTC has a future in VR?
HTC gets all the branding credit, but Valve is the driving force behind the Vive.

HTC has recently announced it is spinning off its VR division into a wholly owned subsidiary called "HTC Vive Tech." The move seems to suggest that VR headsets are now a pillar of HTC and that the company will be a player in the VR market for years to come. While the HTC Vive is a compelling device, and the best VR headset out there, the driving force behind the Vive is co-creator Valve. I think HTC is taking way too much credit for the Vive's creation.

HTC is struggling mightily in the smartphone market and is still good for a 40-percent year-over-year decline in revenue every month. The Vive—a "joint effort" between HTC and Valve—is a rare bright spot in the company's lineup, but I think it's a temporary reprieve. Evidence shows HTC had little to do with the technology behind the Vive. HTC is more like Valve's tool, and while the company is in charge of manufacturing the Vive right now, HTC won't be left with any IP or competitive advantages once Valve is done with it.

"HTC Vive" makes about as much sense as "Foxconn iPhone." The name "Valve Vive" would probably be more appropriate. HTC seems more like the contract manufacturer for the device, building the Vive for Valve the same way Foxconn builds iPhones for Apple. The Vive is a product of Valve research using licensed Valve technology and Valve software in an effort to kickstart Valve's VR ecosystem. The only oddity is that, through a weird quirk of branding, HTC's name ended up on the side of the device.
It's not hard to imagine why Valve declined to have its name emblazoned on the side of the Vive. Valve is a software company and ecosystem builder. It needs the Vive right now to build out Steam VR, develop VR games, and own the VR ecosystem the same way it owns the general PC gaming ecosystem. Somebody needed to build a VR headset today, though, so until it becomes more lucrative for regular electronics companies to do it, Valve took it upon itself (and recruited HTC) to build the first Steam VR headset.

In the future, Valve wants multiple hardware vendors competing to make the best VR headset, with the company as a neutral third party. Valve probably kept its name off of the HTC Vive to avoid being seen as playing favorites and to send a message that Steam VR is a place for any hardware manufacturer that wants to compete. Valve is happy to stay out of the hardware spotlight, and HTC is desperate for some kind of successful product. This is fine, but HTC should stop desperately trying to convince itself it's going to be a major player in VR in the future.

(...)

How about another key component of the HTC Vive, the tracking technology? (...) This wasn't an HTC creation, either. Valve did all the engineering work for the "Room Scale" tracking, starting with an early prototype called the "Valve Room" that worked with a camera that read AprilTags (think QR Code bar codes, but 3D positioning) plastered all over the wall. HTC's own press release even says that "Vive combines Valve’s Steam VR tracking and input technologies with HTC’s world-renowned design and engineering talent" [emphasis ours].

While the Vive is the first device to use Lighthouse technology, HTC can't count on it as a differentiator in the future. Valve co-founder Gabe Newell told Engadget: "So we're gonna just give [Lighthouse technology] away. What we want is for that to be like USB. It's not some special secret sauce." The move will be great for the VR ecosystem, but devastating for HTC. If HTC wanted to have a future in VR, retaining this technology would have been a key step in keeping it competitive. The company probably didn't have a say in the matter though, since, again, Valve developed and owns the technology, and HTC is just the manufacturer.

More at http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2016/07/can-we-stop-pretending-htc-has-a-future-in-vr/

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Puts fingers in ears

Lalalalalalalalala





(I'm a Vive owner)

Edit: ah I see - they're just taking about branding. I don't care about that

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Way harsh, but probably true.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Puts fingers in ears

Lalalalalalalalala





(I'm a Vive owner)

It's not saying the Vive is obsolete or anything like that. Just that HTC shouldn't be taking so much credit for the creation of the device.

 

[Danlord]

Don't read too much into it

Spoiler

 

[LordRaptor]

Replace this with "Sony Playstation and its driving force being its co-creators EA, Ubisoft, WB and Bethesda" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make.

Replace this with "Sony Televisions and its driving force being its co-creators Disney, WB, Fox and Sony Entertainment" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make

 

[WarlockTheWise]

Its not the best vr headset though.

 

[Krejlooc]

"HTC Vive" makes about as much sense as "Foxconn iPhone."

Or as much sense as HTC Android Phone

wait

 

[jdw_b]

Article should have been written from the point of view of the VR ecosystem Valve is trying to develop...

Instead it's just "I don't like HTC"

Comes across quite petty. I mean, the headline is just stupid attention seeking shite

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Someone was bored today I see.

 

[mclem]

To be fair, though, "Valve Vive" is one heck of an awkward thing to say.

 

[KojiKnight]

This article is just kind of silly... Valve needed a hardware manufacturer, HTC was there... HTC is now taking those operations and spinning them off precisely BECAUSE they aren't a pillar of their business.

 

[collige]

While everything he wrote is true, HTC losing out on this requires other manufactuers to start competing in the SteamVR space. That won't be happening until at least Gen 2 and considering there's been no rumors of any other company gearing up to make an official SteamVR headset, I think this sort of thinking is a bit premature.

 

[metalslimer]

Replace this with "Sony Playstation and its driving force being its co-creators EA, Ubisoft, WB and Bethesda" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make.

Except Sony designs all the hardware, the OS, and puts out software. I mean I think it is a silly argument to make because I don't think htc ever claimed they did half the work creating it.

 

[Spring Drive]

To be fair, though, "Valve Vive" is one heck of an awkward thing to say.

Just call it Valve Pipe

 

[DOWN]

Replace this with "Sony Playstation and its driving force being its co-creators EA, Ubisoft, WB and Bethesda" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make.

SONY is doing a lot more than manufacturing, considering they are also a huge publisher and creator of their system OS. HTC is not.

 

[bomblord1]

So he thinks HTC's VR branch will fail?

 

[pj]

The R&D was all valve but it's dumb to underestimate what it takes to bring a commercial product to the market. I'm sure HTC is behind all the million little details with vive that a company like valve doesn't have the people to handle.

Physical design, manufacturing, packaging, marketing, etc

None of those are trivial

 

[oakenhild]

While everything he wrote is true, HTC losing out on this requires other manufactuers to start competing in the SteamVR space. That won't be happening until at least Gen 2 and considering there's been no rumors of any other company gearing up to make an official SteamVR headset, I think this sort of thinking is a bit premature.

If sales continue on the Vive in any decent manner, you can bet there will be a long line of manufacturers ready to build headsets (think of how many Android phone manufacturers could spin out a replica of a Vive quickly).

Success for HTC with the Vive is a double-edged sword.

 

[exmachina64]

Whole article could be shortened to "Can we stop pretending HTC has a future?"

 

[Nzyme32]

Kind of a crap opinion piece since there isn't any evidence yet that HTC are doomed to fail once competition enters the SteamVR scene. Valve will licence all its technology freely to competitors, but that doesn't prevent HTC from doing the same and attempting to be more competitive vs other SteamVR hardware competitors when they show up. It's more a matter of if HTC can innovate or simply produce compelling VR hardware that appeals to customers, whether through support, price, quality etc for the target audience they want.

It also seems they are interested far beyond the simple hardware with attempts to support and engage with other businesses, providing support and hardware specific to them and providing equity support to start ups. I'd imagine much of their plans may lie within that sort of stuff than simply having the best headset vs SteamVR competitors alone

 

[Spring Drive]

Physical design, manufacturing, packaging, marketing, etc

Wait, who made the Steam Controller?

 

[LordRaptor]

Except Sony designs all the hardware, the OS, and puts out software. I mean I think it is a silly argument to make because I don't think htc ever claimed they did half the work creating it.

SONY is doing a lot more than manufacturing, considering they are also a huge publisher and creator of their system OS. HTC is not.

The majority of people are buying PS4s as the best engineered hardware to play the games they want to play (which are often not made by Sony).

e:
I'm not insulting the PS4 before people feel they need to rush to defend it; I'm saying making consumer level hardware is more than just downloading some APIs from GitHub

 

[Guess Who]

The majority of people are buying PS4s as the best engineered hardware to play the games they want to play (which are often not made by Sony).

That's irrelevant to the point. The article is saying Valve is primarily responsible for the design, engineering, and development of the Vive. EA, Ubisoft, Bethesda, etc. are not in any significant way responsible for the development and engineering of the PS4.

Third-parties may be significantly responsible for the PS4 being successful, but not for it being created.

 

[mnannola]

Isn't the Vive basically the VR equivalent of a Nexus phone? Google helps design it but contracts with another company to actually manufacture and distribute it? If so this article is probably right. If Valve expects multiple companies to help build headsets for Gen 2, how does HTC ensure they will be the leader? Especially if Valve doesn't give them any exclusive capability, they will just be another manufacturer.

 

[Nzyme32]

Wait, who made the Steam Controller?

Valve did it themselves. They created an automated production line to do it, with the intention of having that be malleable enough for changes they may want to make in future for its production / design. It's apparently one of the most automated in the US (at the time). This has also led to the issues of availability since all that production is in the US.

How the steam controller is made

 

[collige]

If sales continue on the Vive in any decent manner, you can bet there will be a long line of manufacturers ready to build headsets (think of how many Android phone manufacturers could spin out a replica of a Vive quickly).

Success for HTC with the Vive is a double-edged sword.

I don't disagree, but we're a few years out from that happening at the very least. We know literally nothing about gen 2+ at this point.

 

[herod]

Company makes hay while sun shines, news at 11.

spinning off its VR division into a wholly owned subsidiary called "HTC Vive Tech." The move seems to suggest that VR headsets are now a pillar of HTC

Wut

 

[LordRaptor]

The article is saying Valve is primarily responsible for the design, engineering, and development of the Vive. EA, Ubisoft, Bethesda, etc. are not in any significant way responsible for the development and engineering of the PS4.

There are numerous articles about Sony going to third parties and asking exactly what they want regarding the PS4, but its irrelevant to the article, and I didn't think people would be so touchy about the comparison tbh.

 

[Somnid]

As soon as Samsung or Huawei or whoever can produce a cheaper variant HTC is getting dropped. In fact, HTC already realizes the rest of the company is a boat anchor on their VR expedition and is spinning it off which is probably a good idea.

So yeah, seems pretty reasonable to me but I don't think anyone really cared because they see it as a Valve thing.

 

[Mindwipe]

Ars Technica: 'Can we stop pretending HTC has a future in VR?'

 

[bomblord1]

I don't disagree, but we're a few years out from that happening at the very least. We know literally nothing about gen 2+ at this point.

I would love to see eye tracking and foveated rendering as a gen 2 standard. Along with a resolution bump

 

[Nzyme32]

As soon as Samsung or Huawei or whoever can produce a cheaper variant HTC is getting dropped. In fact, HTC already realizes the rest of the company is a boat anchor on their VR expedition and is spinning it off which is probably a good idea.

So yeah, seems pretty reasonable to me but I don't think anyone really cared because they see it as a Valve thing.

Valve won't "drop" anyone though. They intend to licence out their technology freely. The only catch is that the standards of those tech are not violated and that the hardware is compatible with SteamVR along with whatever else those people want it to be for.

 

[Tain]

People are more in love with SteamVR (as a platform and standard) than they are the Vive itself, even if some don't realize it.

We'll see what else happens down the line, but I expect variety in terms of SteamVR hardware. Just look at how well it supports Rift+Touch.

 

[Grim Patron]

If not VR they have no future. No one buys their phones anymore.

 

[Nzyme32]

People are more in love with SteamVR (as a platform and standard) than they are the Vive itself, even if some don't realize it.

We'll see what else happens down the line, but I expect variety in terms of SteamVR hardware. Just look at how well it supports Rift+Touch.

Indeed part of the point of SteamVR is that it is hardware agnostic, so if you decide to bin your Vive for something else, everything still works on future hardware from anyone via OpenVR without effort.

 

[randomengine]

Replace this with "Sony Playstation and its driving force being its co-creators EA, Ubisoft, WB and Bethesda" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make.

But Sony actually makes some of the best games for the system. They don't just manufacture the system.

 

[dr_rus]

How sure are we that VR itself have a future? 8)

 

[JoeyJungle]

Replace this with "Sony Playstation and its driving force being its co-creators EA, Ubisoft, WB and Bethesda" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make.

Those are software creators, not system manufacturers. A more apt comparison would be one like the article used, the Foxconn Playstation (or wherever Sony manufacturers their consoles).

Or as much sense as HTC Android Phone

wait

HTC actually did all the design work for their phones. Android is just the OS.

Probably the most similar comparison is Google's Nexus line. I'm not sure how they currently handle branding, but my Nexus 7 has ASUS on the back and no Google branding at all. Valve probably has a similar contract with HTC, and could shift to another hardware maker/do everything in house if they felt the product would benefit from that. HTC was probably only an initial partner for this version of the Vive/received an X year exclusivity manufacturer contract for the Vive (or some similar deal).

But if they're expanding their VR division internally, they've probably just extended the deal with Valve, want to show that they full support the Vive and don't want to lose the contract, or want to lock down the market at every tier (compete with Google Cardboard/Samsung VR on the low/mid-tier, and the high-end market with the Vive).

Replace this with "Sony Playstation and its driving force being its co-creators EA, Ubisoft, WB and Bethesda" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make.

Replace this with "Sony Televisions and its driving force being its co-creators Disney, WB, Fox and Sony Entertainment" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make

Content creators are not hardware manufacturers.

 

[kraspkibble]

i think Valve are the ones that own it but it's up to them to decide who makes it? look at what google does with the nexus phones. HTC makes this vive then Valve will pick someone else for the next gen model.

 

[pj]

Wait, who made the Steam Controller?

vs

Not really the same level of work involved.

Also the steam controller looks and feels cheap to me compared to the vive basestations/controllers/hmd.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Oh hey look someone missed the class on writing headlines.

 

[Nabbis]

I don't think Valve has much of a future there either. Aside from steam they don't seem to have any long term plans or they change them constantly.

 

[JoeyJungle]

Wait, who made the Steam Controller?

I think Valve was able to do most of that internally because a controller is a much simpler device. Once you need high-res ~4-inch displays, it's a lot easier to just contract with another company that already works with those.

I don't think Valve has much of a future there either. Aside from steam they don't seem to have any long term plans or they change them constantly.

The article is basically saying that their future in the high-end VR market is heavily reliant on Valve. HTC currently is the exclusive manufacturer of the Vive, but that contract could leave them very quickly. All of the technology that makes the Vive what it is, is the property of Valve, and HTC's future in VR could hit a brick wall if/when they lose that exclusivity.

 

[jett]

Didn't know Valve designed everything and that HTC is just the manufacturer.

Don't know why it doesn't have the Valve branding, then.

 

[KatamariOnTheRocks]

How sure are we that VR itself have a future? 8)

It's 100% absolutely certain at this point.

Many people have had the common sense to know this for years, but even unwarranted skeptics are starting to see the obvious signs of how big VR is going to be down the line.

 

[Kyoufu]

Replace this with "Sony Playstation and its driving force being its co-creators EA, Ubisoft, WB and Bethesda" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make.

Replace this with "Sony Televisions and its driving force being its co-creators Disney, WB, Fox and Sony Entertainment" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make

This makes no sense at all even on the second attempt.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I don't think Valve has much of a future there either. Aside from steam they don't seem to have any long term plans or they change them constantly.

What is this based on? There's a sea of difference between "not having any plans" and you not knowing what their long range plans are.

 

[LordRaptor]

Didn't know Valve designed everything and that HTC is just the manufacturer.

Don't know why it doesn't have the Valve branding, then.

Unless I'm hugely misinformed on this, Valve provided all of the software APIs that allow titles to work on it, and references for what types of sensors should be used, but all of the actual manufacturing decisions as to specific hardware components used and form factor were HTC.

e:

This makes no sense at all even on the second attempt.

Fine replace "co-creator" with John Logie Baird, I really don't care and its irrelevant

 

[Calm Mind]

I remember a time when an Ars Technica article was distinguishable from a Polygon article. Now, I can't tell them apart.