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[Neuromancer]

Evidence shows HTC had little to do with the technology behind the Vive. HTC is more like Valve's tool

I'm not sure I believe this.

"During his Immersed 2015 keynote, Phil Chen, Chief Content Officer for HTC and Founder of the HTC Vive explained that ... HTC and Valve don't have a clear dividing line between each of their responsibilities, and HTC is very much a partner in the research and development process."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Vive

 

[FriedConsole]

I think Valve's name isn't on it because they don't have that much faith in it lasting and don't want the loser stink.

I don't think the name should really matter.

 

[Nabbis]

What is this based on? There's a sea of difference between "not having any plans" and you not knowing what their long range plans are.

Dropping a franchise at it's peak and then pretty much dropping game development altogether combined with their chaotic company structure with no one to give them pressure financially seems like a poor place for long term planning. Let's not forget their turtle speed on everything.

 

[Krejlooc]

Dropping a franchise at it's peak and then pretty much dropping game development all together combined with their chaotic company structure with no one to give them pressure financially seems like a poor place for long term planning. Let's not forget their turtle speed on everything.

Ah, so you know nothing about what valve has been doing in VR.

 

[Nabbis]

Ah, so you know nothing about what valve has been doing in VR.

Im pretty sure there won't be a supported Vive 3.

 

[Harp]

Why is Vive a bright spot, just because it's popular? Do we even know if HTc makes money on them?

 

[Triggerhappytel]

It's not saying the Vive is obsolete or anything like that. Just that HTC shouldn't be taking so much credit for the creation of the device.

What exactly have they done to claim "so much" credit for the creation of the Vive headset & tech? Other than manufacturing this device, having their name on the headset and marketing it as an HTC piece of kit (which was obviously covered in the terms of the contract), what exactly are they doing which implies they're taking all the credit and getting this writer's back up so much?! Serious question.

 

[shangolin]

HTC is one of the best hardware makers out there. Their phones typically have the highest build quality, which is probably why Valve went with them. They should also be given a lot of credit for pushing out Vives at a much faster rate than Occulus, which I'm sure has made Valve happy. I really don't get why the author is throwing the manufacturer under the bus as if they're irrelevant. They play key roles in build quality, delivery and consumer satisfaction, and HTC deserves any credit they're being given along the way.

As for the foxconn comment, I think it would be more honest if foxconn were on the iPhone somewhere instead of Apple taking all the credit. I mean, let's be real, Apple exploits cheap labor markets and hoards profits offshore just like any other greedy for-profit company. It would be nice if foxconn were given some credit for the iPhone's success.

 

[Krejlooc]

Im pretty sure there won't be a supported Vive 3.

This doesn't even make sense. Why post about stuff you clearly aren't informed about?

 

[Crayon]

Is there a pattern to Ars' weird hit piece articles or are the targets hit in a lottery of random convulsions by these hacks?

 

[pj]

What exactly have they done to claim "so much" credit for the creation of the Vive headset & tech? Other than manufacturing this device, having their name on the headset and marketing it as an HTC piece of kit (which was obviously covered in the terms of the contract), what exactly are they doing which implies they're taking all the credit and getting this writer's back up so much?! Serious question.

It's a dumb thing to argue. If valve is fine with what HTC is doing, who gives a shit? I'm sure everything related to branding and marketing, regarding prominence of brand names/logos and such, has well defined terms in whatever agreements exist between the two companies.

HTC is taking the exact amount of credit agreed upon between HTC and valve.

Edit: I didn't read past the first sentence in your post. I basically just said the exact same thing you did..

 

[kitsuneyo]

Or as much sense as HTC Android Phone

wait

I think the article covered your point by mentioning HTC's 40% year-on-year declines in phone sales.

 

[DerZuhälter]

I feel like a lot of people in this thread didn't even read the entire article. Of course it's a huge liability for HTC if the "driving force" behind VR, is giving all the technological know-how away for free.

Valve's intention being growing the VR ecosystem and making money on the software side, is going to leave the hardware manufacturer burned, as soon as VR takes off and a bunch of other manufacturer start taking away market share because they have nothing giving them an edge, and burned if VR doesn't take off at all.

 

[Maintenance]

I don't think Valve has much of a future there either. Aside from steam they don't seem to have any long term plans or they change them constantly.

Im pretty sure there won't be a supported Vive 3.

Remember people:

 

[KingSnake]

Valve is OK with it, so the opinion in the article sounds a bit as a undeserved HTC hate.

 

[Krejlooc]

I think the article covered your point by mentioning HTC's 40% year-on-year declines in phone sales.

My point wasn't about the validity of their phone business

my point was that the naming scheme is consistent with phone manufacturing, which is the exact opposite point they were trying to make with the "Foxcomm Iphone" point.

Nobody says "Google Galaxy S," they say Samsung Galaxy S, because Samsung manufactures the phone and contributed the design.

 

[LordRaptor]

Is there a pattern to Ars' weird hit piece articles or are the targets hit in a lottery of random convulsions by these hacks?

Let's see how that translates to clicks

e:

my point was that the naming scheme is consistent with phone manufacturing, which is the exact opposite point they were trying to make with the "Foxcomm Iphone" point.

Or indeed any other consumer technology that relies on a shared "infrastructure" to use; like Sony televisions, LG DVD Players, Samsung Monitors, Beats Headphones, Creative MP3 Players, etc etc etc

 

[qa_engineer]

So does this mean that HTC's VR branding is going to skyrocket now? Thanks ARS.

 

[Karak]

Its like they talked to one person and it pissed them off so they did an article.

 

[Nabbis]

Remember people:

Im really surprised that Valve has such staunch believers among them given the fact that they abandoned a popular franchise during it's peak, multiple times. If they learn to count to the number 3 then i could give them some benefit of doubt in them supporting something for a long time(aside from Steam).

 

[KingSnake]

In the end HTC deserves the attention because they were the first to take the leap of faith with Valve's tech and for having the courage to invest in this new tech despite their financial situation. And they went all in, with room-scale and all, not playing it safe. If HTC wouldn't have stepped in, VR market on PC would have been much poorer.

When others will invest in Valve's tech the praise will be shared.

 

[Armaros]

Im really surprised that Valve has such staunch believers among them given the fact that they abandoned a popular franchise during it's peak, multiple times. If they learn to count to the number 3 then i could give them some benefit of doubt in them supporting something for a long time(aside from Steam).

IE 'They dont make games I like any more, so they are dying and/or dont matter'

 

[collige]

Im really surprised that Valve has such staunch believers among them given the fact that they abandoned a popular franchise during it's peak, multiple times. If they learn to count to the number 3 then i could give them some benefit of doubt in them supporting something for a long time(aside from Steam).

And which multiple franchises would those be?

 

[Maintenance]

It's not a question of believing in Valve, just making sure people understand that's pure bait. This is like saying "Nintendo has no future, they stopped making F-Zero and Metroid so they'll die"

Valve has a lot of faults, that's obvious.

 

[Hawkian]

Sort of an annoyingly provocative title. The thing here is that the device is really Valve's creation with manufacturing, sales, and branding duties to HTC. This is something Valve wanted to be able to get the device to market. It was good for HTC to get them into the game as a hardware player in a pretty new consumer entertainment field. Basically a mutually beneficial production decision. This is actually covered fairly well in the article. It's pretty boring and not "news" in any sense, if you ask me...

Title makes it seem an awful lot like they mean to say that HTC's entry in the VR market was a failure, which isn't even close to the topic of the article.

 

[Yado]

This article seems kind of childish and silly.

 

[Krejlooc]

Im really surprised that Valve has such staunch believers among them given the fact that they abandoned a popular franchise during it's peak, multiple times. If they learn to count to the number 3 then i could give them some benefit of doubt in them supporting something for a long time(aside from Steam).

Do you have anything to contribute to the topic at hand? Because the topic is not about valve making Half Life 3.

 

[Nabbis]

It's not a question of believing in Valve, just making sure people understand that's pure bait.

Valve has a lot of faults, that's obvious.

I provided multiple reasons on why Valve may not be the best company in providing long term support for something, be it their history or company structure. Might as well call every different opinion as bait.

Do you have anything to contribute to the topic at hand? Because the topic is not about valve making Half Life 3.

I guess LFD3 and Portal 3 exists. How about their supposed commitment for open access quality and customer support?

 

[Armaros]

I provided multiple reasons on why Valve may not be the best company in providing long term support for something, be it their history or company structure. Might as well call every different opinion as bait.

Said the Valve Troll that tried a Half Life 3 meme as a serious argument.

 

[Krejlooc]

I provided multiple reasons on why Valve may not be the best company in providing long term support for something, be it their history or company structure. Might as well call every different opinion as bait.

Your argument is that, aside from steam, there is no evidence that valve can support something long term.

well good thing the product being discussed is steamVR, huh?

I guess LFD3 and Portal 3 exists. How about their supposed commitment for open access quality and customer support?

There is a great amount of evidence that L4D3 is in development right now.

What does that have to do with SteamVR, however?

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Vive owners like myself made the right move in going with this VR tech, it's got Valve and Steam behind it, and it will be kept relevant in regards to future software running on it, regardless if/when better Steam VR headsets hit the market! We can't say the same for Oculus.

 

[Armaros]

I provided multiple reasons on why Valve may not be the best company in providing long term support for something, be it their history or company structure. Might as well call every different opinion as bait.



I guess LFD3 and Portal 3 exists. How about their supposed commitment for open access quality and customer support?

Those goal posts, they keep moving.

 

[StereoVsn]

Yeah, the article is full of it. HTC was heavily involved in the actual device design from optics to "fit", etc... Much as the precious Samsung example with Google Android, HTC is on a similar standing.

They are also known for good device quality, and clearly they have shown capability to quickly manufacture devices vs say Oculus. HTC also gained experience in VR field so they will have a leg up on others who are going to start creating their own SteamVR devices.

Is HTC Vive 3 going to be the best SteamVR device? Who knows, but this doom and gloom article also doesn't have a whole lot of standing.

 

[collige]

I guess LFD3 and Portal 3 exists. How about their supposed commitment for open access quality and customer support?

L4D3 does exist and even if it didn't not releasing full blown sequels is not the same as not supporting something. Valve worked on L4D3 4 years after its release, not to mentions the 5 and 9 years of support they've given to Dota 2 and TF2 respectively. Same goes for Portal as they put out the co-op campaign and mapmaking tools after Portal 2 release while also creating new Portal VR content in the Lab while also greenlighting a third party VR Portal game.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

Replace this with "Sony Playstation and its driving force being its co-creators EA, Ubisoft, WB and Bethesda" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make.

Replace this with "Sony Televisions and its driving force being its co-creators Disney, WB, Fox and Sony Entertainment" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make

That's not the same thing at all.

 

[Kysen]

I agree with the article, I recently got a mail from HTC asking me to install some bloatware software they are offering(I own a Vive). This mirrors the same shit b-tier android handset manufacturers try and pull. Currently when you setup the vive it has a bunch of HTC processes constantly running in the background and I have no idea what they do.

 

[Armaros]

L4D3 does exist and even if it didn't not releasing full blown sequels is not the same as not supporting something. Valve worked on L4D3 4 years after its release, not to mentions the 5 and 9 years of support they've given to Dota 2 and TF2 respectively.

Or doubling down on the struggling launch version of CS:GO which is now one of the biggest games, and easily the biggest FPS esport.

 

[LordRaptor]

I guess LFD3 and Portal 3 exists. How about their supposed commitment for open access quality and customer support?

 

[Nabbis]

Your argument is that, aside from steam, there is no evidence that valve can support something long term.

well good thing the product being discussed is steamVR, huh?



There is a great amount of evidence that L4D3 is in development right now.

What does that have to do with SteamVR, however?

Lol at the bolded part. Just like every few years people find HL3 files?

Anyway, im not sure if you have comprehension issues or you just like to twist words because i never said there is no evidence at all. But i am highly skeptical on them being able to commit on this.

Those goal posts, they keep moving.

Feel free to use the ignore button.

You want to talk comprehension issues? You are posting in a topic that is about how much credit HTC should take in branding the Vive to air your grievances about Half Life.

Hey man, you don't need to respond to me if you don't think my opinions fit the topic very well. I myself though will post a response since it seems that you can't understand what im typing here. It's not about Half Life.

 

[Krejlooc]

Lol at the bolded part. Just like every few years people find HL3 files?

Anyway, im not sure if you have comprehension issues or you just like to twist words because i never said there is no evidence at all. But i am highly skeptical on them being able to commit on this.

You want to talk comprehension issues? You are posting in a topic that is about how much credit HTC should take in branding the Vive to air your grievances about Half Life.

 

[Lord Error]

What a weird, childish sounding article. At the very least, Valve has HTC's expertise to thank for being able to come out to market in such good shape as they did, as opposed to a near-disaster launch that Oculus had. Even then, I can't imagine VR business is more than a blip on the radar of HTC's money and production flow right now. The thing is basically super-niche by the mass manufacturing standards.

 

[Alex Stroud]

Can we come up with any original headlines anymore, or are all journalists creatively bankrupt?

 

[KingSnake]

Probably the alternative title was "Does anybody else think that HTC ...?".

 

[Krejlooc]

Even then, I can't imagine VR business is more than a blip on the radar of HTC's money and production flow right now. The thing is basically super-niche by the mass manufacturing standards.

Every indication is that htc sees vr as their primary business going forward, to the extent that they are expected to eventually spin off the vive into its own company. In the words of htc itself, vr is more important than phones to them:

http://m.androidcentral.com/htc-vive-pre-orders-begin-feb-29-ceo-says-vr-more-important-smartphones

 

[Tain]

Vive owners like myself made the right move in going with this VR tech, it's got Valve and Steam behind it, and it will be kept relevant in regards to future software running on it, regardless if/when better Steam VR headsets hit the market! We can't say the same for Oculus.

Rift and Touch function in SteamVR in a very similar way to the Vive. You can play room scale games with Rift + Touch that were straight-up only built and tested with Vive in mind, and they run fine thanks to Valve's excellent platform.

I think both Rift and Vive owners will be fine in the long run.

 

[Keasar]

It would be much easier if you just put Valve and Vive together so it becomes "Valve".

....wait...

 

[BocoDragon]

Yup. My brother who is only passively interested in gaming was saying "I'm glad HTC finally has a powerhouse product in Vive. They could be the next 'it' company".

I said nuh uh. It's definitely a "Monster Cable making Beats by Dre" situation. It's really a Valve product and they could partner with whomever they want later on.

 

[akira28]

I remember a time when an Ars Technica article was distinguishable from a Polygon article. Now, I can't tell them apart.

yeah what the fuck is this trash?

I don't read Ars Tech articles to be offended by bad journalism. They may as well ask why Gabe wants HTC to have some shine instead of Valve taking more credit. Who cares? Speculate at unknown strategies? Fine. Complain that HTC is "getting too much credit" ?? Who the hell even thinks about this let alone cares enough to think its bad.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Rift and Touch function in SteamVR in a very similar way to the Vive. You can play room scale games with Rift + Touch that were straight-up only built and tested with Vive in mind, and they run fine thanks to Valve's excellent platform.

I think both Rift and Vive owners will be fine in the long run.

I hope they both are, for now though Vive has definitely got the momentum, but Oculus really needs those touch controllers.

 

[aeolist]

Replace this with "Sony Playstation and its driving force being its co-creators EA, Ubisoft, WB and Bethesda" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make.

Replace this with "Sony Televisions and its driving force being its co-creators Disney, WB, Fox and Sony Entertainment" and you see how dumb an argument this is to make

sony actually makes LCD panels though

HTC sources all of their parts from other manufacturers and doesn't own any of the basic tech that went into the vive

the article is spot-on but nobody here should care much because other manufacturers can make steamVR headsets