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Atlus we need to talk about the Persona 5 localization...

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H

Human Trashcan

Banned
duckroll said:
Btw, speaking of weird ass name pronunciations. Caroleen? Joostine?

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

That really threw me off.
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That's funny, because that's closer to how a Japanese person would pronounce those names, even though NO ONE would say it like that in English. Meanwhile, they intentionally butchered the actual Japanese names to sound... wrong. Not more English (that doesn't make sense, they only moved stresses for no particular reason). Some weird choices made here. I really hope they hire a localization company next time and take this stuff into consideration when developing the game so that the localizers aren't forced to use the same amount of text boxes and whatnot.
 
G

Gestahl

Member
Every interrogation scene screenshot I've seen with the prosecutor is just complete gibberish. The way they made her phrase everything is baffling
 
V

Venfayth

Member
Soriku said:
I don't care that I disagree with him, but he's exaggerating his disappointment in the first sentence, and saying the localization is awful is ridiculous, and you're ridiculous for thinking his post is all that reasonable. Big difference in saying a few parts are shoddy, and that the work as a whole is awful.

Been playing for 6 hours, there's nothing awful about it.
Click to expand...

Glad to disagree with you then (although I guess you don't care about disagreeing???). See how you can actually begin to articulate points of disagreement once you stop strangulating conversation by labeling it all as hyperbole?
 
E

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Only got through 4/12 last night, but so far nothing seriously stood out, or took me out of the game, aside from that initial "Please take care of me," line. Well that and the pronunciation of Ann. Really? I hope they mostly refer to her by her last name. I've known several people who have relatively common names but pronounce them differently and they're all insufferable.
 
G

Gideon Zhi

Neo Member
The voice acting in this game is good in spite of the text. The text, on the other hand, is unnatural and objectively bad. I'm intending to try to find a way to record the first hour or so of the game, then break it down to show exactly *how* bad. It's almost every other line. It's like, late-90s-Capcom bad.
 
T

Two Words

Member
Ragnar Blackmane said:
I think 'monster cat' still fits because Morgana is basically... 6 times the size of a normal house cat and a dozen times as thick? She also walks upright, talks and does look pretty gangsterish at first glance, so I'd totally have the same reaction as Ryuji has in the situation and even literally call it a monster cat, just as I would call a dog a monster dog if it was 5 times as big and tall as a regular dog. Being a German might colour my language intuition though, we tend to call everything surprisingly or shockingly oversized compared to the norm 'Monster-"insert noun"'. In any case I think your suggestions are more unnatural, especially for sudden surprise ;-).


He is really close to the new Japanese voice actor for Igor though (the original actor died and there are also... other reasons for the new voice as well, something I won't spoil). The change was intentional.
Click to expand...
If there are other reasons that you feel shouldn't be said due to spoilers, you really shouldn't tell me even that there are other reasons that are spoilery.
 
T

Thud

Member
Put about 3 hours in and yeah the beginning has some rough lines. Most of them have been posted in this thread. There are also some that make a jump in logic.
 
E

E-flux

Member
Gideon Zhi said:
The voice acting in this game is good in spite of the text. The text, on the other hand, is unnatural and objectively bad. I'm intending to try to find a way to record the first hour or so of the game, then break it down to show exactly *how* bad. It's almost every other line. It's like, late-90s-Capcom bad.
Click to expand...

Objectively bad? That's a pretty bold claim. I have seen nothing wrong with it in the 10 hours i have played, though i have seen nitpicking lines who seem to forget that localisation =/= 100% translation.
 
L

Linkura

Member
I've played a few hours so far. It didn't bother me much while playing, but obviously looking at the examples in this thread is pretty mind-boggling. I guess, when playing, I'm just used to shit JRPG localizations after playing the genre for 20+ years.
 
M

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Do Japanese people enunciate Sakamoto the same way they do 'arigato'?
 
G

Gideon Zhi

Neo Member
E-flux said:
Objectively bad? That's a pretty bold claim. I have seen nothing wrong with it in the 10 hours i have played, though i have seen nitpicking lines who seem to forget that localisation =/= 100% translation.
Click to expand...

I realize it's a bold claim. I intend to back it up with evidence, but that's going to be some time coming as I currently don't have any way to capture video, the PS4's built-in sharing is blocked, and I'm dealing with fraudulent charges on my credit card and will be without until Friday. Working on it though. But in the hour I played last night almost every other line was bad for one reason or another.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
E-flux said:
Objectively bad? That's a pretty bold claim. I have seen nothing wrong with it in the 10 hours i have played, though i have seen nitpicking lines who seem to forget that localisation =/= 100% translation.
Click to expand...
I think it's the opposite here. I don't speak Japanese so I could be wrong, but it feels like they went for 100% translation a little too much.

Again, I could be wrong, but some of the dialogue comes across as text from a Google translator. Stuff that made sense in Japanese, but sounds stilted and unnatural in English.
 
B

beelulzebub

Banned
BRocknRolla said:
So is this an issue? I hear "Ann" like I would assume a Japanese speaker would say it, but the way they pronounce "Sakamoto" is really throwing me. The latter is wrong, right?
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Currently rewatching Nichijou in light of the blu-ray release, and Sakamoto is a character name-dropped at least 4 times every episode. Definitely not pronounced like SaKAHmoto like they do in Persona. It's a weird delivery for sure, and not at all a correct pronunciation.
 
E

eyeball_kid

Member
Seiryoden said:
Actually, that example is perfectly acceptable in British and American English, and pleasingly au courant: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/magazine/whos-they.html.
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The girl this person is talking about is someone they've known since middle school. This is not a situation of gender fluidity or not knowing the gender. While technically correct, using "their" when there are two people in the sentence is non-specific and wouldn't be used by a native English speaker. Compared to some of the other translations it's a tiny thing, but it was big enough when I was reading it to do a double-take and be pulled out of the immersion.
 
M

Metroidvania

People called Romanes they go the house?
There are definitely more stilted lines and odd translation choices here compared to P4, from my (up to 2nd dungeon) experience.

All the last name stuff, the twins being (apparently) French, 'are you really a bad person as the rumors say'.....

It's not all the time, and usually not 'objectively' terrible, but every so often there will be an eyebrow-raising line or inflection that makes me go 'uh....'
 
J

jay

Member
eyeball_kid said:
The girl this person is talking about is someone they've known since middle school. This is not a situation of gender fluidity or not knowing the gender. While technically correct, using "their" when there are two people in the sentence is non-specific and wouldn't be used by a native English speaker. Compared to some of the other translations it's a tiny thing, but it was big enough when I was reading it to do a double-take and be pulled out of the immersion.
Click to expand...

It is not technically correct.
 
E

ErzaScarlet77

Neo Member
Caroline and Justine are pronounced correctly IMO. surely you guys werent expecting caro-LINE? it is supposed to be caro-leen and jus-teen
 
Y

YankeeDonB

Member
I'll definitely agree the English Translation is off.

Is it MORE off than w/ P3 and 4 though? Or is it just more noticeable in comparison to higher production values?

My impression is that it's awkward in a direct-translation way similar to 3 and 4 (and, not excusing, but I find it sort of charming in a clunky way).

My question is, how is the line-by-line writing in Japanese? Good? Passable? There's always been a lot of tiresome pseudo-philosophical banter in Persona, but the strong characterizations and style tend to make up for it....
 
turnbuckle

turnbuckle

Member
Soriku said:
Hyperbole max. There's not much of anything that's awkward in the first hour.

Been playing for 6 hours, there's nothing awful about it.

I don't care that I disagree with him, but he's exaggerating his disappointment in the first sentence, and saying the localization is awful is ridiculous, and you're ridiculous for thinking his post is all that reasonable. Big difference in saying a few parts are shoddy, and that the work as a whole is awful.
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First - I never said the whole game is awful. Don't be ridiculous.
I did say that if the whole game's localization is of the quality seen in the beginning that the experience will be hampered.

I can't speak to the overall translation or even 6 hours in since I haven't played very far yet (1h47m game time) but there are undeniable issues in the first hour. Not sure why you're getting "hyperbole max" about my and my girlfriend's first impressions.

To say the first hour+ of Persona5's translation isn't a disappointment uneccesarily downplays the quality of work in the games preceding it.

If I had an agenda I'd be pushing the "it's not that bad" narrative. If only for selfish reasons [this is the first console RPG I'm playing since starting a family and having my girlfriend stay interested in it is important to me since we only have one TV in the house].

Persona 5 starts out aurally and visually spectacular, but it tumbles over itself with the localization.

Anyways, I want to believe it gets better. Some people in here are saying that it does. If it doesn't, I'll still enjoy the game but I'll be left hoping for a re-translated Persona5:Golden release on the PS4P/PSIVTA or whatever down the road.
 
Q

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
LiK said:
Caro-LINE and JUST-Ine are how Americans pronounce them.
Click to expand...

I think you can make an argument for Joost-een as a native speaker. I have heard that name in multiple ways so I was open to hearing it another way, but it isn't intuitive at all. But Caro-LINE is the only correct way to say that IMO.
 
J

.JayZii

Banned
Will this make people who beg for the utmost authenticity in Japanese translations reconsider their way of thinking?

Just kidding, they have no self awareness.

I don't mind Caroline and Justine's pronunciations at all. They just sound French to me, and P5 has a bit a French theme to its inspiration. Names are pretty fluid when it comes to pronunciation these days anyway.
 
L

Linkura

Member
Great, I'm playing the game now and I'm over-analyzing every line to see if it's awkward or grammatically incorrect. Thanks, GAF!
 
O

Otatoptohami

Member
I think it's a bit unfair to criticize Igor's lines and the Justine and Caroline pronunciation. The residents of the velvet room are supposed to be otherworldly, and their lines have always been kinda flowery. It feels like how someone would talk if they never actually spoke to another person, but taught themselves by reading books. I believe Margaret even notes at some point that she still has trouble speaking sometimes.
As far as everything else, yeah the strange pronunciation on certain last names is hard to defend, but at least it's been internally consistent so far.
 
S

StarSketch

Banned
Playing the intro, and there feels like there's a lot of excess words, I guess? That's the feeling I'm getting. Things make sense but are a word or two too much information.

Like, some of these sentences could be written more concisely and not doing so screws up the pacing?

I mean, I probably wouldn't have noticed since I get like that too sometimes (just look at this post)

But on the other hand....

I don't quite get the whole "Sounds like google translate" thing because I've slapped my share of Japanese stuff into google translate and that's 10X worse. I can at least understand this on first glance without internal editing.
 
Lionel Richie

Lionel Richie

Member
I almost feel weird for liking the examples in the OP. Sadly I haven't played the game yet and I understand it might be a poorly done job, but as a non native english speaker this kind of thing is endearing to me. I know people don't talk like this normally, it's just that piecing together a weird phrase and trying to understand what the fuck that was supposed to mean is kind of an ethereal look into a completely different culture through the present language barrier.

I know they weren't going for this and I'm not excusing it, I just like how they accidentally nailed the feeling of having to read your sentence again in fear of it not making sense since you wrote it in a different language from the one you speak every day.
 
E

eyeball_kid

Member
.JayZii said:
I don't mind Caroline and Justine's pronunciations at all. They just sound French to me, and P5 has a bit a French theme to its inspiration. Names are pretty fluid when it comes to pronunciation these days anyway.
Click to expand...

I find their English VA more annoying than their names. But if Atlus was trying to go with a French take, at least they could've gotten French actors to voice them, or at least an American with a bad French accent.
 
O

OverturePT

Member
StarSketch said:
Playing the intro, and there feels like there's a lot of excess words, I guess? That's the feeling I'm getting. Things make sense but are a word or two too much information.
Click to expand...

That's how I feel as a non-native English speaker. I can see that, but it doesn't really bother me at all. I guess with English as your first language it might sound worse.
 
A

Arkeband

Banned
ErzaScarlet77 said:
Caroline and Justine are pronounced correctly IMO. surely you guys werent expecting caro-LINE? it is supposed to be caro-leen and jus-teen
Click to expand...

The USA only named two states after the name, what the fuck do they know?

I don't think a Red Sox game would work if Sweet Caroline was pronounced like Gasoline.
 
E

E-flux

Member
LiK said:
I remember and it's still jarring. I do kinda wish they got the previous VA back for him.
Click to expand...

Didn't the previous dude die or something?

Edit: Nope didn't die, i just remembered that somebody died of the recurring characters.
 
T

Tunoku

Member
Andrew J. said:
Yeah, pretty much.

It makes sense, Velvet Room attendants are all named after Frankenstein characters, so that's closer to how they'd be pronounced by Swiss francophones.
Click to expand...

Fuck, how did I not realize this before?! Thanks for blowing my mind a little.
 
M

Mandoric

Banned
Otatoptohami said:
I think it's a bit unfair to criticize Igor's lines and the Justine and Caroline pronunciation. The residents of the velvet room are supposed to be otherworldly, and their lines have always been kinda flowery. It feels like how someone would talk if they never actually spoke to another person, but taught themselves by reading books. I believe Margaret even notes at some point that she still has trouble speaking sometimes.
As far as everything else, yeah the strange pronunciation on certain last names is hard to defend, but at least it's been internally consistent so far.
Click to expand...

If it was flowery, I'd dig it. Igor isn't flowery.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Andrew J. said:
Yeah, pretty much.

It makes sense, Velvet Room attendants are all named after Frankenstein characters, so that's closer to how they'd be pronounced by Swiss francophones.
Click to expand...
Hmm, this actually makes sense. Makes the Joost-een pronunciation more sensible.
 
L

Lhadatt

Member
I'm about 3 hours in.

Atlus USA clearly put a lot of work into the localization, but a few things turned me off the English dub:

- Pops and sibilance all over the English VA. Did they not use pop filters? I don't know what their recording studio and engineering situation is like, but something's off.
- Too much direct translation, not enough interpretation.
- Mispronunciations all around. "Shi-BOO-yah" hurt my ears.
- The main characters seem to be well-cast, but
- Auxiliary characters are odd. Kamoshida, the principal, and the social studies teacher just seem "off," perhaps too normal -- they don't fit their character designs at all.

I'm enjoying the game more with the Japanese audio. I could probably overlook the dub's issues once I really got into the game, but I'm glad the original audio is an option.
 
S

Snapshot King

Member
duckroll said:
Btw, speaking of weird ass name pronunciations. Caroleen? Joostine?

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

That really threw me off.
Click to expand...

A lot the names are pronounced the way you would in French, but with English accents. It's odd especially if you don't speak French. I imagine it's because of Arsenne Lupin being a frenchman and all, and there's other influences like the cafe LeBlanc, and the French style of the velvet room.
 
T

tansuikabutsu

Neo Member
Snapshot King said:
A lot the names are pronounced the way you would in French, but with English accents. It's odd especially if you don't speak French. I imagine it's because of Arsenne Lupin being a frenchman and all, and there's other influences like the cafe LeBlanc, and the French style of the velvet room.
Click to expand...

The cafe's name is a direct reference to Arsenne Lupin's creator, Maurice Leblanc.
 
E

eyeball_kid

Member
Snapshot King said:
A lot the names are pronounced the way you would in French, but with English accents. It's odd especially if you don't speak French. I imagine it's because of Arsenne Lupin being a frenchman and all, and there's other influences like the cafe LeBlanc, and the French style of the velvet room.
Click to expand...

And that's sort of the central problem. On one end they've taken Japanese phrases whole-cloth and just literally translated many of them into English, spoken by English VA who were told to purposely mispronounce Japanese names. On the other end they wanted to include the French influence, but dropped them into English with no attempt to pronounce them as a French person would, or to have a French VA speak them. In both cases cultural contexts are lost, leading to both confusion by western players and a game which occasionally feels like it was written by someone for whom Japanese, French, and English were not their native languages.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Ann's introduction really feels like it was done by a translator and not edited. Stuff like "I'll be counting on you" and something else she said was a very Japanese thing introductory to say. Maybe it was deliberate, who knows, but it feels like it was just rushed.

Not knocking the localization, it's by and large excellent, there's just little things that slipped through the cracks.
 
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