mansoor1980
Gold Member
wtf,,,,,,,,,,,,thats not my post
you are responding to some other post in this thread ,
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Atomic Heart devs (mundfish) accused of being supported by Russian blood money - Twitter twits.
- Thread starter cormack12
- Start date
you are responding to some other post in this thread ,
Flutta
Banned
Do you know what proxy-war is? Look it up. US is still involved in wars around the globe.
They have over 150 militery based around the planet for a reason. Almost all the wars/conflicts that’s happened during these last 50 years the muricans have been involved directly or indirectly. They have more blood on their hands then any other nation on the planet right now.
Wars/conflicts going on right now:
Israel/Palestine - US is involved.
Saudi/Yemen - US is involved.
Ukrain/Russia - US is involved.
Syria - US is involved.
Taiwan/China - US is involved
And the list goes on…
Acting like the US has somehow stopped engaging in wars because they don’t have boots on the groud is you talking rubbish.
Flutta
Banned
Lmao. Not sure what happened there. Sorry about that
BbMajor7th
Member
I mean... the Soviet era ended over three decades ago. Why do I get the impression that most people don't realise that? The tweet here seems to imply that the modern political reality of Russia is somehow connected to the alternate fictional (!) history of 1950s Soviet Russia.
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Because basing your whole energy and industrial strategy on Russian Oil is a lesser issue ? Parroting the twitter crowd and its meaningless ideologist words will only get you so far.
CuNi
Member
Europe did realize it fucked up relying on Russian Gas and you can already see the repercussions of it now that the sanctions are in control.
Import is at an all-time low, deals with other energy providers are being made and huge investments into renewable energy is being made.
You can see the effects of that when you compare the kWh cost of Europe vs US.
But the thing is, you cannot change your whole energy sector in a timespan of a few months, we're talking about something that takes 5-10 years.
Guilty_AI
Member
They had 8 years to realize doing business with Russia was obviously a bust. The fact they didn't is either extreme incompetence or hypocritical complacency.
BbMajor7th
Member
They also failed to properly regulate commodities speculation in such a way that would have prevented Russia from using market instability to destabilise developed western economies.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I don’t participate in social media (other than uploading video game butt screenshots and posting them here), so it’s good to know this place is pretty level headed on this aspect of knowing how this shit really works. Some places refuse to acknowledge evil tactics, because it doesn’t fit their agenda.
It’s all bad, everything is evil. Accept it and move on.
It’s all bad, everything is evil. Accept it and move on.
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Shut0wen
Member
How can people be this dumb? Did russian government give grants for this game? Absolutely, has grants been given since the war? Absolutely fucking not, anyone with a small business knows the government in most logical countrys dont give out grants to something that hasnt been proven to be successful unless they friends in higher places
Changing a whole energy sector would take 25+ years, 10 is being VERY optimistic. Whatever investments being made into renewable don't have much to do with things being "in control". The massive amount of coal burned lately and a warm winter are the main factor. You can have a glimpse of it checking https://app.electricitymaps.com/map (all the main EU TSO do share the data).
It's a tad older than that, at least 2011 when Germany decided to close its nuclear powerplants. Being so dependant on a single source of energy is just stupid, especially when it's a major power whose agenda won't align with yours forever.
Anyway back on topic, it's hard to blame individuals (or a game studio) for the doings of its country. All major powers have blood on their hands, directly or not.
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
Welp, just what the game needs before release, tainted.
BootsLoader
Banned
Nice joke, your unawareness on the situation and your lack of will to do some research on the matter is hilarious. You come here and just post your thinking without any context?
Balducci30
Member
You don’t know what satire is? Of course it’s gonna say shit like “glory to soviet engineers” and “comrade join the society of tomorrow” - when the game is clearly about how that all goes wrong and you have to shoot your way out of a situation that’s gone haywire - did you take the posters saying “patriots arm thyself against foreign invaders” in bioshock as condoning capitalism?
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Yeah yeah, I am just saying that world would reject any sort of "satire" of Nazi Germany, but USSR is all fun and games. Writing this from country which has been 20 years occupied by Russia + what is happening now, is certainly disheartened.
Anyway, I am not here to preach, these are just my views. Carry on.
MMaRsu
Banned
Nah everyone loves a bit of selective hatred against developers who have nothing to do with the war in Ukraine.
Ribi
Member
China good, Russia bad!?
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Most importantly, USA and Europe can do no wrong!
Roberts
Member
Well, the stuff I saw from the game hints at being at least somehow satirical of Soviet regime, but that doesn't make those party photos any less tone deaf.
Anyway, I will give the game a chance to see myself where they stand politically. For someone who grew up in Soviet Union, I will not tolerate any modern game that glorifies or feels nostalgic about that regime's past in any shape or form. And, yes, I am aware that it is a sci-fi game that takes place in a fictional alternative universe.
Balducci30
Member
Yeah I mean yes having a satire about being within Nazi germany would be a difficult sell - I’ll admit I don’t have the experience you do or the history so I can imagine it hits a lot closer there. I personally just tend to direct my anger at the people with the power in the government today as opposed to this type of thing but I get it.
And I will say that it was a misguided decision to put those quotes on napkins and shit at a party - the intention artistically makes sense but it was tone deaf
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Nobody is saying that. But also USA and Europe are not communists monsters you know?
There is a difference. not all things are equal.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I do understand this view, but generally I am on and off with depression since last years february, that my friends are getting blown up and people have really whitewashed view of how it was during USSR. I am watching it from the distance, since I am from Czech Rep. however we were still under USSR. And seeing that even western libs were saying that is okay to have "buffer zones" between NATO and Russia, that it should go back to 1997 borders and so on. Really makes me salty as fuck.
Anyway Neogaf is still the very best place to talk about it and I don't feel any resentment towards views, who simply don't care about the situation. Since MS is paying for gamepass games at the start, I would be happy if people just game pass it and not buy that. But the important thing is that "I would be happy..." does not mean that I have some moral authority
Rykan
Member
At no point have I shared my thoughts on the subject matter. Your claim that I "Lack the will" to do research is equally baseless, you have no idea how much research I have or have not done because you don't know my opinion on the matter. You claim that most people don't know what's going, yet even a simple invitation to share your "knowledge" sees you deflecting with baseless accusations in fear of even the slightest bit of scrutiny. That, my friend, is what is hilarious.
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FoxMcChief
Gold Member
They’re just different monsters. Which is my overall point. It’s all bad.
Ghost of Caelid
Banned
For the sake of their safety I don't hold anything they say in regards to Russia against them...living in a dictatorship is as scary of a proposition as you can think of. As long as you are a consumer of capitalistic based products you can't avoid blood money. It's almost impossible to exist in this system and live as a morally clean consumer. All we can do is try our best and realize they are victims of their own system as well.
BootsLoader
Banned
The problem is that I spend a lot of time checking and reading on the Russian - Ukranian war, upon speaking with other people I realized how much they don’t know and just “follow the current trend”. So as you understand, it’s very very tiring and time consuming to explain to other people, why should I do that? If you’re really interested, go make your research, that’s all to it.
skyfall
Member
Very clearly is, but rmember who you're are dealing with. No, these types do not know what satire or comedy of any kind is. Too busy being angry all the time.
Now criticizing and explaining why the something is 'problematic' and 'tone deaf' they'll be the experts.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
GymWolf
Member
They started working on the game way, WAY before the war was a thing.
They are not ubisoft or ea or M that can scratch a project like nothing, they are a small studio and erasing years of work would have been their end most probably.
GymWolf
Member
You are literally throwing hot bat soup on people with delicate skin and shitty immune system.I bought a Tencent game am I supporting the CCP
acidagfc
Member
Is there a better place to yell about blood money than Twitter, platform owned by a home-grown american billionaire Musk. Oh wait...
Do not forget to type this word diarrhea on your iPhone, totally not assembled in a bangladeshi sweatshop.
Or hey, maybe you are so woke that you refused to buy an iPhone and instead use Xiaomi, totally not owned by CCP.
By the way, are you by chance an F1 fan or a soccer fan, sports is outside politics and dirty money, right?
Just fuck right off with this bullshit.
I am a russian citizen, who left the country a few years back before the war. I HATE the government for doing the unspeakable, same as I hate thrm for wasting 30 years of possibly growth they denied to my entire country. But I will not hate on my fellow countrymen who are just trying to live their lives and actually create something despite all the bullshit around them.
FFS, twitter should finally implode, too many stupid but vocal people there.
Do not forget to type this word diarrhea on your iPhone, totally not assembled in a bangladeshi sweatshop.
Or hey, maybe you are so woke that you refused to buy an iPhone and instead use Xiaomi, totally not owned by CCP.
By the way, are you by chance an F1 fan or a soccer fan, sports is outside politics and dirty money, right?
Just fuck right off with this bullshit.
I am a russian citizen, who left the country a few years back before the war. I HATE the government for doing the unspeakable, same as I hate thrm for wasting 30 years of possibly growth they denied to my entire country. But I will not hate on my fellow countrymen who are just trying to live their lives and actually create something despite all the bullshit around them.
FFS, twitter should finally implode, too many stupid but vocal people there.
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Whataboutism - Wikipedia
Although the term whataboutism spread recently, Edward Lucas's 2008 Economist article states that "Soviet propagandists during the cold war were trained in a tactic that their western interlocutors nicknamed 'whataboutism'. Any criticism of the Soviet Union (Afghanistan, martial law in Poland, imprisonment of dissidents, censorship) was met with a 'What about...' (apartheid South Africa, jailed trade-unionists, the Contras in Nicaragua, and so forth)."
Whataboutism - Wikipedia
Although the term whataboutism spread recently, Edward Lucas's 2008 Economist article states that "Soviet propagandists during the cold war were trained in a tactic that their western interlocutors nicknamed 'whataboutism'. Any criticism of the Soviet Union (Afghanistan, martial law in Poland, imprisonment of dissidents, censorship) was met with a 'What about...' (apartheid South Africa, jailed trade-unionists, the Contras in Nicaragua, and so forth)."
Pointing out that western democracies have their fair share of blood on their hands is not something to dismiss though. It sure doesn't make what Russia or other countries are doing right but there's no justice without equity and until western democracies act what they preach the ostratisation of belligerent countries just won't happen.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Sure but this is not a thread about USA atrocities and besides that, if sone Afghani, Iraqi person didn't want to buy Western Games, I would feel that it is fair game. But I don't think that USA holds the candle to Russia, when it comes to number of people dead. I know Vietnam, Iraq, etc was absolutely horrendous, but Russia simply does not give a fuck human life there has absolutely no value.
Well I'd say the main difference is that the countries within the sphere of influence of a plutocracy have it better than those in an authoritarian one. But again, in any case, blaming a studio for the crimes of its country doesn't seem fair. It's not like they can do much about it and just speaking out would be putting their whole family in danger.
Solarstrike
Member
That's a shame. Where can the Collector's Edition be pre-ordered?
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Guilty_AI
Member
Whataboutism - Wikipedia
Christian Christensen, Professor of Journalism in Stockholm, argues that the accusation of whataboutism is itself a form of the tu quoque fallacy, as it dismisses criticisms of one's own behavior to focus instead on the actions of another, thus creating a double standard. Those who use whataboutism are not necessarily engaging in an empty or cynical deflection of responsibility: whataboutism can be a useful tool to expose contradictions, double standards, and hypocrisy.
A number of commentators, among them Forbes columnist Mark Adomanis, have criticized the usage of accusations of whataboutism by American news outlets, arguing that accusations of whataboutism have been used to simply deflect criticisms of human rights abuses perpetrated by the United States or its allies. Vincent Bevins and Alex Lo argue that the usage of the term almost exclusively by American outlets is a double standard, and that moral accusations made by powerful countries are merely a pretext to punish their geopolitical rivals in the face of their own wrongdoing.
Jim Ryan other Clone
Banned
I really don't understand what has the late USSR has done to your country and you hate it so much. The Germans done exactly the same atrocities but they get a pass? As a half Greek and half Armenian i know both worlds through history and my parents. Also what has modern Russia done that is making you hate them? It's a genuine question (please dont answer Ukraine)
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
They don't get the pass, but generally on the internet you don't have to go against waves of nazis defending Germany, with Soviet Union however it is really common.
What a brave post, listen nobody in discussion about American atrocities don't talk about what USSR done, thus it makes no sense to mentioned it in thread about USSR. So in some parts you are correct, this is truly hypocritical post.
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Guilty_AI
Member
This thread isn't about the USSR either. Its about twitter denizens trying to be the guardians of morality and attacking some random devs for some long-winded connections with Russia, all while twitting from their iPhones made through slave labor in China, enjoying houses heated with Russian gas.
They're in no position to criticize these devs, none of us is.
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CuNi
Member
With changing, I didn't mean a complete turn away from coal, gas etc. I more meant a turn away from Russian Gas.
Contracts are being made with US and other countries, LNG terminals build and investment into renewable energy is increased from before.
It's not so much a complete shift to green energy etc. but more of a shift away from having a single supplier. 5–10 Years sounds reasonable to me in this aspect, diversifying your energy-mix and spreading every resource across multiple supplies.
For a complete overhaul, I'd say with massive investment could happen in 15 years, but a more reasonable time is 20-25, like you estimated.
Balducci30
Member
I get it, I mean I don’t get it cause I don’t have the experience but I can imagine - I’ll definitely just be gamepassing it and sorry to hear about your friends