Enygger_Tzu
Banned
So, find pixels attractive is lame but being offended by pixels is not lame?
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Attractive/fanservice design in video games
- Thread starter Skyn3t
- Start date
So, find pixels attractive is lame but being offended by pixels is not lame?
LucidFeuer
Banned
I think fan service should be a fan "service" as in a bonus. Different crowds, different tastes, different opinions, nobody likes to be shoved SJWs opinions down the throat, so is the case for fan service or oversexualisation or characters, wether male or female btw.
I think when you're creating game, it's substance should lie in the debt, design, traits and narrative of the character unless they're sexualised for stylizing or narrative purposes. Then, I'm always glad to know there's an hidden Erotic magazine here and there in MGS, a particular sexy costume in DOA, or romance phase in the Witcher to unlock.
I just don't like low hanging provocation and alienation of the brain with unecessary sexualisation signals in the face.
I think when you're creating game, it's substance should lie in the debt, design, traits and narrative of the character unless they're sexualised for stylizing or narrative purposes. Then, I'm always glad to know there's an hidden Erotic magazine here and there in MGS, a particular sexy costume in DOA, or romance phase in the Witcher to unlock.
I just don't like low hanging provocation and alienation of the brain with unecessary sexualisation signals in the face.
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KevinKeene
Banned
No one would have anything to gain from quenching the thirst for more clicks than the Owner.
So now the theory is that threads aren't getting the quality moderation they used to, ehhh, because due moderation would detract from the goal of generating more clicks.
How about you explain why you think oversexualized females [or males] in games is silly? Can you do that? Can you open your opinions for scrutiny? Or are you going to keep asserting as though your views were self-evident as Jupiter, the Planet, and as such dispensed with having to offer any rationale?
Why?
Unless it's oversexualized fictional characters, which you deem silly. Again, why?
Why?
This is the problem with the side that keeps pointing fingers. If you press them long enough for why they think the way they do, ultimately, they don't seem to be able to frame it as anything other than an opinion, and one without real justification at that. Unsubstantiated opinions can be dismissed without substantiation. Let's see if yours are any different.
TheDuskwalker
Member
I always get a kick out of this excuse since a lot of male designs in Japanese video games is made to be appealing to Japanese women.
People always talk about those female "love pillows" for video game and anime characters, yet never mention the fact they make tons of them with male characters. Like they released a set of 4 of 5 of them for Dynasty Warriors a few years ago, yet only 1 of those was for a female.
TannerDemoz
Member
The usual "go-to" excuse for those types is that all those men that you see? They are all power-fantasies. They are not sexualized in any way, shape, or form and only serve to make men feel like they are strong, burly, and can do anything.
Dramatical Murder's cast, Voldo, Snow - these are characters that I have seen a *ton* of "oversexualized" fanart of by men and women over the years (with many more that I could pull from). However, they cannot be sexualized as they are all supposed 'power fantasies.' If they are called out on this weak excuse, then they fall back on the age-old "but men design all the women" to show how "sexist" and "perverted" the designs are. It is mostly just idiocy.
So, you don't like fanservice so you come into a thread and stink it up until someone calls you out on it? C'mon mate, do better. Also that "SJW/Toxicity" that was mentioned? That was all in jest and a light-hearted jab at how these topics used to run and are still run in modern gaming journals. I thought I would mention that as you seemed to fail to understand its context.
Fair point. This wasn't originally a 'fan service' thread, though. I'm glad it's ended up like this though (ironically, I'm probably the one being the most toxic one here). Last thing I wanna do is attack people for being into something - but cosmos or whatever his name is asked me for my opinion.
Spheyr
Banned
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, have a seat over there pleaseFortunately, there are no minors in games, only fictional, virtual characters
gioGAF
Member
I have never understood the stupid movement to erase sexualized character designs from games. Bitching at someone who is creating something that is their vision is ridiculous.
For example, Kojima enjoys his female character designs, he obviously likes women. If that is reflected in his game, that should be allowed. If you don't like it, don't buy his game, end of story. That is what it boils down to, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Don't persecute those who are okay with or enjoy it.
It is not sexist to enjoy the female form or the male form. Women compete in beauty pageants from their own volition. Removing the swimsuit portion is stupid, the contestants are there for their physical qualities. Male models don't look like the average Joe, they are doing what they do because of their physical qualities. People need to look elsewhere if they are concerned with people being judged on different merits.
This reminds me of whole Nascar promotional model situation. Women have jobs working for Nascar as promotional models, they say how much they enjoy their jobs. Other people come out and say the promotional models are being exploited/sexualized and Nascar decides to buckle to the SJW pressure. The promotional models are now out of a job because ironically a group of people that "believe in the right of women to choose" have decided that these women don't have a right to choose this particular job (ie. the job they have chosen should not exist).
For example, Kojima enjoys his female character designs, he obviously likes women. If that is reflected in his game, that should be allowed. If you don't like it, don't buy his game, end of story. That is what it boils down to, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Don't persecute those who are okay with or enjoy it.
It is not sexist to enjoy the female form or the male form. Women compete in beauty pageants from their own volition. Removing the swimsuit portion is stupid, the contestants are there for their physical qualities. Male models don't look like the average Joe, they are doing what they do because of their physical qualities. People need to look elsewhere if they are concerned with people being judged on different merits.
This reminds me of whole Nascar promotional model situation. Women have jobs working for Nascar as promotional models, they say how much they enjoy their jobs. Other people come out and say the promotional models are being exploited/sexualized and Nascar decides to buckle to the SJW pressure. The promotional models are now out of a job because ironically a group of people that "believe in the right of women to choose" have decided that these women don't have a right to choose this particular job (ie. the job they have chosen should not exist).
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Wheeljack539
Member
My understanding is that since women also play games then games should be generalized so that they won't feel offended or put off from playing them. It's been awhile but I've also heard that the number of women who play games is higher than we believe but from the last time I heard about it I don't think there was a distinction of such studies were console only or if they included mobile games.
Agreed.
Agreed that the removal is rather stupid but at the same time I feel these are the last gasps of these pageants due to the internet being a click away for beautiful women. In the old days before the internet and even cable these pageants were among the few ways for people, men mostly, to see a large number of beautiful women in one place in swimsuits and/or skimply clothing (or what could pass for tv standards in those days). In today's world there's no longer much of a reason to watch such a pageant unless your there in person.
The removal of the swimsuit portion is simply a "Please watch us!" plea from those who are not only trying to stay relevant but also trying to get on this modern "movement" of twitter and social media types and be seen as progressive and non-inoffensive/etc so they'll watch and give it good press. It's not going to last long, IMO. It may give a boost for a year or two tops before interest is lost again.
Wasn't there something about the people who were fighting to end the "exploitation" also telling those employees that they were doing for their own good? I seem to recall some video around that time from a talk show or something like it in which the ones who wanted to end the exploitation were telling the girls this and that they could get better jobs.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This shit cracks me up every single time. And by that, I mean shake my head at some of the ilk in our society.
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TannerDemoz
Member
Hey! Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can! (Thank you for the incredibly powerful simile too – I've never been compared to a planet before.)
I see a lot of comments pushing very far right views on GAF at the moment (I appreciate these used to be far left, which was also lame). In fact, I'd say the vast majority of GAF users now lean to the far right. So, yes: moderating opinions that are very on the right would result in GAF's right-leaning users feeling alienated.
Here's my opinion (on the original thread post that over-sexualisation of video game characters is fine) and I'm not gonna go further into it because I'm now de-railing the thread, something which I don't wanna do if people are just paying service to something they're into.
I think it's cheap. That's literally it. It doesn't 'offend' me (sorry if this wasn't the 'outraged' response you wanted from me) but I think pushing sex as a way to get sales is cheap. It's been done in pop culture forever, I understand why it's done, but I'd rather see characters displayed realistically than having their hips, breasts (or groins of pecks) enhanced to an unrealistic proportion.
cireza
Member
Never understood the war against sexy characters in games. I am a guy, I like women, and if some of them are sexy in the games I play, then so be it.
The fact that a design is sexy or revealing does not make for a bad or a good character. It simply doesn't matter.
For example, Bayonetta :
She is one of the most sexy designs ever. With "stupid" proportions. Still the character is awesome because of her personality. You have so many cutscenes that help build a memorable character, honestly I did not think at first that this was going to be a thing in the game (the first game, in the second one she is pretty bland, you definitely feel that Kamiya was not there anymore). In the end, yes, you get a fantastic character. All of her scenes with the Cereza are beyond great.
And then another example. Maho from Steins Gate 0. You honestly can't get less attractive than that :
One of the best character ever in a game. Steins Gate 0 is actually a visual novel, but who cares. She is worth reading the whole thing, such an incredible addition to the universe.
And why not add another one to the list, while I am at it ? Alis from the very first Phantasy Star :
Having a female lead in a RPG, that greatly contributed to set up the standard for the genre, way back in 1987. Her design is simply what it needed to be back then. Phantasy Star II introduced Nei, she was a very sexy character. And everyone loved her, despite the narrative being carried by very few words.
In the end, sexy designs don't matter to me. That's as simple as that.
The fact that a design is sexy or revealing does not make for a bad or a good character. It simply doesn't matter.
For example, Bayonetta :
She is one of the most sexy designs ever. With "stupid" proportions. Still the character is awesome because of her personality. You have so many cutscenes that help build a memorable character, honestly I did not think at first that this was going to be a thing in the game (the first game, in the second one she is pretty bland, you definitely feel that Kamiya was not there anymore). In the end, yes, you get a fantastic character. All of her scenes with the Cereza are beyond great.
And then another example. Maho from Steins Gate 0. You honestly can't get less attractive than that :
One of the best character ever in a game. Steins Gate 0 is actually a visual novel, but who cares. She is worth reading the whole thing, such an incredible addition to the universe.
And why not add another one to the list, while I am at it ? Alis from the very first Phantasy Star :
Having a female lead in a RPG, that greatly contributed to set up the standard for the genre, way back in 1987. Her design is simply what it needed to be back then. Phantasy Star II introduced Nei, she was a very sexy character. And everyone loved her, despite the narrative being carried by very few words.
In the end, sexy designs don't matter to me. That's as simple as that.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Not all games made to look realistic and If all characters in video games look realistic, that would honestly suck all the fun out of games.
Dr. Claus
Banned
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
How many comments is "a lot"?
How many is "the vast majority"?
I think you suffer from a delusional persecution complex, which is all the more obvious when you constantly insert snide generalizations about GAF instead of competently engaging in the discussion.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Anything right of (far) left, is far (alt) right gais!
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Dr. Claus
Banned
"Delusional persecution complex". Excellent way to put it and one I will make sure to use more often. I am beginning to think my fellow liberals have gone a wee bit batty.
ILLtown
Member
There was a time when games journalists used to defend these kinds of characters, for example: -
Leigh Alexander - In Defense of Breast Physics
Can you imagine a games journalist for a mainstream website writing something like that today?
Attacking masculinity itself seems to be quite popular amongst a certain crowd. They always have to take things to the nth degree. They want you to feel guilty about things that are totally normal, or things that are pure fantasy, but because identity politics is a huge part of their ideology, there's always a double standard.
Leigh Alexander - In Defense of Breast Physics
Can you imagine a games journalist for a mainstream website writing something like that today?
Attacking masculinity itself seems to be quite popular amongst a certain crowd. They always have to take things to the nth degree. They want you to feel guilty about things that are totally normal, or things that are pure fantasy, but because identity politics is a huge part of their ideology, there's always a double standard.
That would indicate you don't know what far right means. Regardless, simply accusing views of being far right is no substitute for explaining why they're wrong.
Oh, so it's deliberate after all? To secure them clicks?
See how my guess turned out to be right, after all?
What you have to do is simply establish these opinions break forum rules, which is the valid reason for muting them. Can you do that?
(…)
It puts a smile on my face when opinions like the above signal coming full circle and joining hands with the puritan evangelical right. They too believe it's cheap. The problem, which isn't mine, is that this opinion is dependant upon a certain religious view of sex. Would you say it's cheap to push violence as a way to get sales? Is it cheap to push hard puzzles in games to drive sales? Great Storytelling?
So what separates sex from all the other things you deem legitimate to push in order to generate sales?
And I might agree with you. But the traditional view of the likes of ResetEra isn't that. It's not that they don't like it. It's that they find it morally reproachable and as such are seeking to have it wiped out from every single videogame on the planet, not least by shaming gamers and developers into complying with their worldview.
If it were just a matter of preference and taste, you wouldn't have a single word with which to reproach people who have different tastes and preferencies. You like potatoes, they like watermelons. But by framing this as a far right issue, you are condemning these people and implying the matters does transcend mere opinion.
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TannerDemoz
Member
If you want me to present an argument on what differentiates 'hard puzzles' from sex in video games then I'm out. It's been a pleasure.
Because you cannot?
You want to simultaneously play the liberalist by saying, on one hand, it doesn't bother you, it doesn't offend you, people can do whatever, and on the other, play the ResetEra-er, and accuse others who do like it of being far right.
Get your act together. Be prepared to offer explanations for your positions or at least acknowledge it's a matter of faith and you do not have any solid philosophical foundations for them.
TannerDemoz
Member
Was tempted to reply ban, but I think you should present your argument or retreat. Can we refrain from labeling users as 'mental' pls
Nope, because I think you are mental.
Skyn3t
Banned
Nope, I think it's the other way. @Cosmogony is on fire today, killing it post after post.
I guess the Resetera-er in you won over the meek liberalist.
And no, you cannot present the argument.
TannerDemoz
Member
Ban me please I'm out! X
Wheeljack539
Member
Guys, as much as we complain about purple-GAF can we try to keep it to a minimum in a thread about something much more interesting?
Keeping on topic; what are your thoughts on PC mods for certain games? Again, to use SF5 as an example:
Dammit I really like Ibuki's hair for this mod.
ExpandKong
Banned
Is...is this a trick question? Is this a trap?
HarryKS
Member
Giving you a like and a quote, because I like to see people leave with a smile knowing their narcissism has been partly satiated.
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I have no pleasure whatsoever in seeing you go. I wish you'd reconsider, but ultimately the decision is yours. The only way to grow is to have one's views challenged and try, and often fail, to rise to the occasion. I wish you all the best and hope to see you around soon. Take care.
brap
Banned
As a footsexual I'd like to see more foot focused fanservice.
Having big tits is sexist and misogynistic even though she was killing dudes, T-rexes and whatever the fuck this thing is. I think she even dumps a drink on a dude in the first game for flirting with her. I played TR2013 and nu-lara was just a whiny fuck.
tfw straight as an arrow but still love playing as good looking anime dudesThe usual "go-to" excuse for those types is that all those men that you see? They are all power-fantasies. They are not sexualized in any way, shape, or form and only serve to make men feel like they are strong, burly, and can do anything.
Dramatical Murder's cast, Voldo, Snow - these are characters that I have seen a *ton* of "oversexualized" fanart of by men and women over the years (with many more that I could pull from). However, they cannot be sexualized as they are all supposed 'power fantasies.' If they are called out on this weak excuse, then they fall back on the age-old "but men design all the women" to show how "sexist" and "perverted" the designs are. It is mostly just idiocy.
So, you don't like fanservice so you come into a thread and stink it up until someone calls you out on it? C'mon mate, do better. Also that "SJW/Toxicity" that was mentioned? That was all in jest and a light-hearted jab at how these topics used to run and are still run in modern gaming journals. I thought I would mention that as you seemed to fail to understand its context.
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KevinKeene
Banned
Kasumi from DoA is hot regardless of whether she sports her original age (14) or the westernized age (18). It's silly to change age to begin with, since she's fictional.
neohwa
Junior Member
TheDuskwalker
Member
Kasumi was 17 in DOA1-4, not 14. I think you're thinking of Ayane, who was 14 in the Ninja Gaiden reboot, but was 16 in DOA1-4.
Tekken was pretty feet focused in Tekken 6, and a bit in 7 as well.
KevinKeene
Banned
While looking for Kasumi's age, I found this on wikipedia:
I like Itagaki more now
I like Itagaki more now
Wheeljack539
Member
Oh yes! Please forgive me I forgot
Which game is she from?
brap
Banned
I know what game I'm buying soon
And new pic for thread. Has a huge crush on Nina as a yung boy.
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Dr. Claus
Banned
That is "Zero" from Drakengard 3. It is a prequel to the Drakengard series and was released on the PS3.
neohwa
Junior Member
Always funny to see her expressions in my boxart of Bloody Roar Primal Fury.
Zero from Drakengard 3. Way underrated character and sadly overshadowed by 2B.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Well Unfortunately as much as I liked Drakengard 3 the game runs like shit and clearly SE give Yoko Taro barely any budget for this game. I think most of games budget spent on creating that CGI cutscene at beginning of the game.
