S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
His artstyle is so samey :/
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Attractive/fanservice design in video games
- Thread starter Skyn3t
- Start date
Hotel Security
Member
Exactly. That's why games are fantasy and escape. We don't want to see reality in these games. I want to be some badass who gets all the girls/guys, kills all the bad guys and looks great doing it.
The same applies to movies...I don't want to see some fat, balding dude jumping off buildings...I want the fucking Rock. And I want him getting the hottest girl at the end of the movie and not some dog.
If I want to see ugly people getting together, I'll just go to social media. That's what it's for.
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Madflavor
Member
I think there are plenty of devs out there who do want to design fun, colorful and sexy looking characters, but are too afraid too given the political climate. Even Japan are slowly starting to catch on. They obviously aren't nearly on the same page as the West, but lately you can see it trickling in, especially with DoA6.
Personally I love over the top beautiful women in games. I mean it's just Video Games. There should be plenty of room for both realistic and unrealistic portrayal of human beings. It's a medium where a character like Ivy from Soul Calibur, and Ellie from TloU can both coexist. But alas, in the past few years there's been a particular ideology that has gained almost complete control, and a lot of people don't want to risk the backlash anymore. It sucks, but that's the world we're living in. One day the Pendulum will swing back. It always does. But who knows when that'll happen, but it probably won't be anytime soon.
Personally I love over the top beautiful women in games. I mean it's just Video Games. There should be plenty of room for both realistic and unrealistic portrayal of human beings. It's a medium where a character like Ivy from Soul Calibur, and Ellie from TloU can both coexist. But alas, in the past few years there's been a particular ideology that has gained almost complete control, and a lot of people don't want to risk the backlash anymore. It sucks, but that's the world we're living in. One day the Pendulum will swing back. It always does. But who knows when that'll happen, but it probably won't be anytime soon.
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CatCouch
Member
Fully agree with this. It feels like I'm being demonized all the time for liking sexy women in art/games. It's a pretty important thing for me considering I'm an artist who makes his living off of sexy art (and gets attacked for it from time to time).
Some form of the chilling effect is what worries me. If people are afraid to make or even support this kind of art due to backlash it's going to be a horrible future for a while (I think we are smack dab in the middle of it now). I do suspect it will turn around sooner than later but gaming is getting it the hardest thanks to a relatively small but still influential group of journalists who've made insulting gamers for just about everything an art form. There should not be any pitting of games like TLoUPII against games like SoulCalibur. Both are absolutely necessary for growing this industry. Suppressing one or the other (we all know there are groups going after both) will only cause divides that will be very hard to heal, IMO.
Madflavor
Member
It's been escalating for years now. But it can't keep getting worse and worse. It'll eventually reach a point where it gets so ludicrous and people get so tired and fed up, that there will eventually be a push back where we can all find middle ground. But I feel like it's gonna be awhile before that happens. The powers that be are currently catering to this ideology, and as long as they do, people will be afraid to speak up out of fear for their jobs and reputations.
All we can do on our end is continue to support those who freely express their artistic vision.
Ulysses 31
Member
Guess you haven't heard of "superheroes of body positivity" >.>
hecatomb
Banned
don't know what the point of your post is. Pretty much every super hero is in peak condition. I can't really image a fat batman jumping around roof tops, and fighting gang members while trying not to run out of breathe. Even superman is ripped, even though he doesn't need to be, since he's not even human. Even like almost every X-men is perfect shape.
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Ulysses 31
Member
SWJy types are coming up with fat/disabled superheroes because the healthy/fit superheroes set an unreasonable standard of beauty.
hecatomb
Banned
ya lets see how well the sells will be on those heroes, you can't have a super hero like Batman with 0 super powers being fat and out of shape. SJWs just want to ruin everything.
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Do Make Say Think
Banned
The less the better for me.
Quiet made me feel confused: such a cool character but the fanservice was just way too in your face.
I like subtle. Hot characters are fine, but there is a line on what I consider to be tasteful. The GIF in OP is too on the nose for me.
That stuff sells though and is easy to avoid. Most games that dabble in it are not my type of game whatsoever.
Quiet made me feel confused: such a cool character but the fanservice was just way too in your face.
I like subtle. Hot characters are fine, but there is a line on what I consider to be tasteful. The GIF in OP is too on the nose for me.
That stuff sells though and is easy to avoid. Most games that dabble in it are not my type of game whatsoever.
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Do Make Say Think
Banned
Yeah now instead of left leaning morons making everyone feel uncomfortable we have stuff like "fuck SJWs" pile ons
Not much of an improvement.
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Dr. Claus
Banned
Really? I can actually have a discussion with an alternate viewpoint without being falsely banned for being "sexist/transphobic/racist, disingenuous post, dogwhistling" or any number of idiotic reasons that a poor moderator would pile on because I shared an opinion they disagreed with.
Given the recent sales of these types of comics, they won't sell well at all and they will blame it on the "-ists" that are in the community.
TheDuskwalker
Member
Yeah, it's awful not being banned for having your own opinion now.....
hecatomb
Banned
SJWs hate opinions though, and have a very narrow minded way of looking at things. SJWs have taken over a lot of europe, let a flood of immigrants in their countries, and has led to a super high crime rate, and if you say anything about it, you are a racist nazi, even though its your countries fault for letting in countless immigrants.
Now back to video games and entertainment, if they had their way, every female would be over weight or out of shape, only men that look like a body builders would be allowed, no comedy would be allowed, since comedy would just offended all the snowflakes. Example is Canada, they have become so far left, and so far SJW, that stand up comedy is dead, cause you can sue people for offending you. And you would have very boring games.
Now back to video games and entertainment, if they had their way, every female would be over weight or out of shape, only men that look like a body builders would be allowed, no comedy would be allowed, since comedy would just offended all the snowflakes. Example is Canada, they have become so far left, and so far SJW, that stand up comedy is dead, cause you can sue people for offending you. And you would have very boring games.
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CatCouch
Member
I much prefer the ability to speak my mind and celebrate the type of art in games that I love. It's okay not to like it. I'm not a fan of either sides generalizations but I genuinely do think allowing art one may find tasteless to exist and allowing spaces for those who like it to converse is better than trying to homogenize all art/entertainment into one bland, safe blob. That carries the unfortunate side effect of making people afraid to stand out for fear of harassment/banning or whatever. I'm on this site and not the other for a reason.
Duckhuntdog
Member
7 pages and no one posted PN03??
Cactuarman
Banned
I mean ultimately we're talking about someone not wanting a character to be shallow. You're arguing that the shallowness may serve a purpose and that keeping a character somewhat blank may service a particular group. I guess I don't agree with you that we can't have both discussions - I don't think that's having your cake and eating it too. And it's only "missing the point" if Mika's creator has come out and said that Mika was created to be a blank-slate sexpot. If he did, then I'd agree with you. If he hasn't then it's fair to talk about interpretation.
And speaking of portrayals and criticism - you can absolutely approve of the existence of something without approving of a specific instance of it. That's what were talking about here. I never said the sexpot character couldn't exist, but that doesn't mean that I have to like every depiction of one. I like and own the DOA Xtreme series (well, I only really liked 1, 2 was fine but more of a chore, 3 was lazy) but that doesn't mean that I didn't role my eyes at Cia in Hyrule Warriors. If you liked her design, fine, but me finding it out of place doesn't mean I'm not okay with all instances of a woman with big tits or sorceresses. Personally, I felt that fanservice in the Legend of Zelda universe seemed out of place, and whenever cutscenes went from Impa, Link, and Zelda to Cia it was jarring to me. But I would never argue that we need to remove ALL instances of huge breasts and/or evil sorceresses.
Literally all of artistic criticism could have elements that you don't agree with. I don't understand why with video games, critiques relating to how sexy characters are presented get people so worked up that we start saying things like "SJWs hate women with big tits" (not saying you did this, but it's all throughout this thread). Spoiler alert
hecatomb
, "Now back to video games and entertainment, if [SJWs] had their way, every female would be over weight or out of shape" is bullshit and does nothing to further actual discussion. You're just pushing a false narrative and your persecution complex.Again, it's just criticism and preference. I think your argument can and should exist right alongside the opposing argument. Personally, I hated the depiction of Samus in Other M because of how submissive and tiny she was but if that was sexier to someone then that's perfectly fine. I like and prefer 6'3", 198 pound Samus. If only I could have screengrabbed this back in 91:
Edit: I keep typing Mike instead of Mika
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CatCouch
Member
I mostly agree. I wish more people, particularly game journalists, were more open to discussion like you are. My experience has been the criticism and preferences are almost exclusively against sexy women. I don't see many, if any articles talking about how shallow Ryu is, just characters like Mika. I can't think of many articles from similar sources that support sexy women in any way, either (maybe a few with Bayonetta, but that was after multiple years of tearing her games down). I don't think that covering a woman up would make that character a deeper character so a good chunk of the criticism I read doesn't work for me. It's, ironically, shallow criticism. That's just my opinion, though.I mean ultimately we're talking about someone not wanting a character to be shallow. You're arguing that the shallowness may serve a purpose and that keeping a character somewhat blank may service a particular group. I guess I don't agree with you that we can't have both discussions - I don't think that's having your cake and eating it too. And it's only "missing the point" if Mika's creator has come out and said that Mika was created to be a blank-slate sexpot. If he did, then I'd agree with you. If he hasn't then it's fair to talk about interpretation.
And speaking of portrayals and criticism - you can absolutely approve of the existence of something without approving of a specific instance of it. That's what were talking about here. I never said the sexpot character couldn't exist, but that doesn't mean that I have to like every depiction of one. I like and own the DOA Xtreme series (well, I only really liked 1, 2 was fine but more of a chore, 3 was lazy) but that doesn't mean that I didn't role my eyes at Cia in Hyrule Warriors. If you liked her design, fine, but me finding it out of place doesn't mean I'm not okay with all instances of a woman with big tits or sorceresses. Personally, I felt that fanservice in the Legend of Zelda universe seemed out of place, and whenever cutscenes went from Impa, Link, and Zelda to Cia it was jarring to me. But I would never argue that we need to remove ALL instances of huge breasts and/or evil sorceresses.
Literally all of artistic criticism could have elements that you don't agree with. I don't understand why with video games, critiques relating to how sexy characters are presented get people so worked up that we start saying things like "SJWs hate women with big tits" (not saying you did this, but it's all throughout this thread). Spoiler alert
Again, it's just criticism and preference. I think your argument can and should exist right alongside the opposing argument. Personally, I hated the depiction of Samus in Other M because of how submissive and tiny she was but if that was sexier to someone then that's perfectly fine. I like and prefer 6'3", 198 pound Samus. If only I could have screengrabbed this back in 91:
Edit: I keep typing Mike instead of Mika
Preferences and criticism are great, I want to hear from a variety of opinions! Unfortunately the type of art I love the most doesn't get even one game by without wide, generalized criticism that sounds like the critics want it to cease to exist. It's often accompanied with insults like the "basement dweller" and "14 y/o virgin" too. Let's not pretend that all the writers critiquing these games are being mature and respectful.
I've read some of the Mary Sue and there were better articles discussing depictions of women (they supported Shantae!). There were others that seemed to be made purely to cause controversy, the "Samus is trans" articles and the "Sandy Beaches" incident come to mind. There are great discussions out there, I just feel they often don't come from the writers of bigger websites. I suspect the outrage they generate with the harsher critiques gets them the page views they want. It actually reminds me of the chaos we had with the Paparazzi around celebrities like Britney Spears last decade.
I'm all for having all kinds of different women in games but I don't see that echoed by game writers that much. Too much time is spent going after games that are meant to be sexy and not covering games that are providing the variety so many ask for. I just played through Remothered! Playing as a 35 y/o woman inspired by Jodie Foster was different! I don't see much coverage of it, unfortunately.
That's just my 2 cents. Sorry to intrude~
Enygger_Tzu
Banned
Another one I would like to showcase is Raven Gindhar from Eternal Champions: Challenge from the Dark Side, for the Sega CD. Basically, Sega's "me too" responce to the popularity of Mortal Kombat, back in the day.
And to point out that Sega were aheads of the curve when it came to representation, and attire of their designs.
She was part of the new cast that came from the second game. But her story, makes it clear that she is the game's protagonist, in a game where there was no main character, no protagonist.
She is a healer from a Trinidad tribe, using her sacred hourglass to create small stiches on time (sapping her own lifeforce in the process) one that the mage of the village got jealous of reputation and then decided to use a spell on her hourglass to sap her life completely, rejuvenating him in the process.
If she wins in the tournament, she is the only character who manages to get a power that is GREATER than her (she reverses the wizard's spell and use him as a catalyst to her hourglass, making her hourglass complete and have power over the balance of good and evil) and she realizes this power is too much for her alone, so she uses it to summon the BIG GOOD of the first game and together, they are going to build a better future.
Like I said, Sega was way ahead of the curve of diversity in leading characters. And to say it one more time, fighting games are by far the most diverse genre, followed really closely by JRPGs.
And to point out that Sega were aheads of the curve when it came to representation, and attire of their designs.
She was part of the new cast that came from the second game. But her story, makes it clear that she is the game's protagonist, in a game where there was no main character, no protagonist.
She is a healer from a Trinidad tribe, using her sacred hourglass to create small stiches on time (sapping her own lifeforce in the process) one that the mage of the village got jealous of reputation and then decided to use a spell on her hourglass to sap her life completely, rejuvenating him in the process.
If she wins in the tournament, she is the only character who manages to get a power that is GREATER than her (she reverses the wizard's spell and use him as a catalyst to her hourglass, making her hourglass complete and have power over the balance of good and evil) and she realizes this power is too much for her alone, so she uses it to summon the BIG GOOD of the first game and together, they are going to build a better future.
Like I said, Sega was way ahead of the curve of diversity in leading characters. And to say it one more time, fighting games are by far the most diverse genre, followed really closely by JRPGs.
hecatomb
Banned
A majority of sjws, don't like the idea of being in shape, and accepting people who are over-weight, thats why they had articles like if super heroes were real, and all the females in the drawings were over-weight or out of shape, then they had if disney princess were real, and again they drew them out of shape, or over-weight. So no, I wouldn't want them in control of video games.
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Cactuarman
Banned
No apologies needed, I'm glad you did "intrude". Really great point about the unfair way these things are typically covered and "shallow criticism". Elevating the discussion is certainly a goal of mine and it's sad to see knee-jerk or shallow reactions on both sides. You're right in that it would be really nice to see more articles that highlight or celebrate sexy characters/artwork and not just the "problems" or "issues" with these characters. Even in general pointing out a "problem" without highlighting a positive example makes for a dreary conversation.
Yeah overall I find Mary Sue more disappointing than not. I hadn't read that "Samus is trans" article (here if anyone wants to read it). Really not a fan - exploring the topic as a thought piece is fine, but I really dislike this article because it seems to be pretty uninformed and like you said made purely to stir shit up. Knowing what I know about Metroid lore my first thought went to Samus having Chozo DNA in her. The fact that the article doesn't even mention the Chozo and that being a possibility of what the designer may have meant strikes me as pretty stupid.
Unfortunately I think strong opinions and more polarized topics just get more clicks and comments than talking about Remothered. Which is sad.
Not much else to say other than I basically agree with you.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
I see the " we just want to talk about games, not politics" mantra is no more effective here than in OT.
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I noticed that I've been playing a lot of video games lately with female protagonists. Mages of Mystralia, Seraph, Sundered, Dandara, AIRHEART... and I've never really thought of those characters within as fanservice, nor are they ugly.
Just everyday women across the spectrum doing fantastic things.
hecatomb
Banned
a lot of the sjws think every women is sexualized. Though I mentioned before like it real life, some women like to dress sexy. And most all of these characters would be have to be in shape.
https://viva.media/8-over-sexualized-characters-in-comics-and-video-games
CatCouch
Member
That site is using fan art to argue about Samus? That's pretty disingenuous.
JORMBO
Darkness no more
I don't mind sexy character as long as they fit in with the game. Soul Caliber is mostly just a bunch of people beating each other up so it works ok there. I found Quiet in MGS5 to be a bit of an odd fit.
I usually don't play videogames for realism, so usually I don't really mind or notice stuff like this.
I usually don't play videogames for realism, so usually I don't really mind or notice stuff like this.
CaliggyJack
Member
This, this, and more this.
BlueDogAnchorite
Member
These come to mind
Lokimaru
Member
How is that any different then thisAttractive females in video games are not just good, great or acceptable, they are WONDERFUL!
And they should keep be in games, regardless of what a small, vocal, offended by pixels minority thinks about it, and the majority that likes them say or type.
To have this conversation today means that our divide in communication is so rabidly escalating.
NEVER FORGET!!
Lokimaru
Member
Regina (Dino Crisis)
I want a remake of those with Modern Feathered Dinos.
My current favorite games on Steam are Age of Barbarian and Arena
Anyone who enjoys the works of Robert E. Howard, Frank Frazetta or Boris Valejo should check them out.
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Koala Driving a Ferrari
Member
camelCase
Member
The one game I remember playing that was absolutely concerned with fanservice was a flashgame on newgrounds called Azumanga druglord. Does anyone remember this one? My adolescent years enjoyed a few nights where I would play this late and strive for the in-game "rewards." Lol.
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Heimdall_Xtreme
Banned
hecatomb
Banned
every character in a hentai or some stupid porn game sexualied.....
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Arkage
Banned
Were you saying sth, you sexist pig?
This gif makes me feel ashamed of my words and deeds.
camelCase
Member
I don't understand what you are trying to say
hecatomb
Banned
from what I've heard new grounds has a lot of hentai or porn flash games, besides I heard the site is full of viruses.
brap
Banned
What dumbass did you hear that from?
hecatomb
Banned
someone I used to know, but most of time I never play online flash games. Anyone else not like RE5 Jill? Why they have to make her blonde? Re3 Jill was the best
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...runyuu~.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150920092431
Battlechili
Banned
I really like fanservice. Having attractive looking characters helps make games more eye catching catching and aesthetically pleasing for me. This has actually resulted in me getting into some really good games (Shining Resonance, Feda: The Emblem of Justice, Blue Reflection, etc) I otherwise never would have tried and.....occasionally some bad ones (X-Blades). But I'm thankful for it aiding me in discovering new games. As for games I'd already be interested in, it just makes already pleasant experiences even better! I don't even really think it detracts from serious games. It doesn't really stop me from taking something seriously. I just take the story how it wants me to while looking at hot characters all the while.
Though, if there is any problem I have with fanservice, it's that it's too consistently aimed at men. Where's the fanservice aimed at women? I mean I know there's otome games but that's hardly comparable to the sheer amount t of fanservice aimed at men. Hell, I'd even take just male fanservice. Give me some qt shirtless pretty boys and bulges from time to time.
Though, if there is any problem I have with fanservice, it's that it's too consistently aimed at men. Where's the fanservice aimed at women? I mean I know there's otome games but that's hardly comparable to the sheer amount t of fanservice aimed at men. Hell, I'd even take just male fanservice. Give me some qt shirtless pretty boys and bulges from time to time.
brap
Banned
Newgrounds has been around for over 2 decades. It's fine to use and virus free.
Lesbians and bi women exist too. And no straight male is gonna buy a game filled with shirtless twinks and bulges. If it's fujobait then whatever but no guy is gonna buy the new Star Ocean if it's filled with fat cocks and balls.
Battlechili
Banned
Oh yeah! I don't mean to imply there aren't lesbians and bi women who enjoy that kind of content. I guess what I moreso mean is that there isn't much male fanservice in games? Or stuff aimed at straight women?
I don't really understand what you're saying though. I mean yeah, straight men might be put off by a game full of male fanservice. But wouldn't that just mean the straight and bi women and gay and bi men would have something to enjoy?
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brap
Banned
I mean yeah but like I said if you put that stuff in a popular franchise like Star Ocean or something you're gonna alienate a lot of people which is most likely why you never see it. Also, I never seem to hear about otome games anymore. Do they just not make much anymore?
Battlechili
Banned
They're actually getting made and released fairly regularly. Usually when it comes to Western releases Aksys Games and then Idea Factory International are your best bets for otome game releases. As it turns out though, the next upcoming otome game is being published by Xseed titled "London Detective Mysteria".
Senhua
Member
Well said.
I play the game to escape from RL, so why taking some fictional character in game seriously. They do not need anyone help for their "rights". Let the creators do anything they want with it.
TL;DR : As a player better to not take RL issue to the game, just play whatever you like.