Support NeoGAF

[hecatomb]

Thing is most sjws are hypocrites when it comes to men and women, a guy could be built like a greek god, with no shirt on, and only wear shorts, and not 1 sjw complains, however when it comes to women they always complain. Also in real life, theres good looking girls who like to dress sexy, and no one says anything to them at all. They wear things like short shots, and belly shirts, but when it comes to video games it seems people just have double standards.

 

[TheDuskwalker]

Thing is most sjws are hypocrites when it comes to men and women, a guy could be built like a greek god, with no shirt on, and only wear shorts, and not 1 sjw complains, however when it comes to women they always complain. Also in real life, theres good looking girls who like to dress sexy, and no one says anything to them at all. They wear things like short shots, and belly shirts, but when it comes to video games it seems people just have double standards.

 

[hecatomb]

You also ignored the part were I said girls actually do dress skimpy in real life, even more then most video game characters. Yet people are too scared to say anything to them. Its also having double standards if you don't complain to girls in IRL and say nothing to them, and yet complain about video game characters.
Just like this girl, there are plenty of them who dress like this all the time and go out.

 

[Cactuarman]

TheDuskwalker Nice cherry-picking. Here I'll do the thing that you don't want to do and actually link to the articles so people can read them. You don't have to agree with Maddy's opinions, but it would be nice if in the future you didn't try to make your point by leaving out 95% of the context. And I've added a third article by the same author addressing the thing you're trying to criticize.

Street Fighter V's Pre-Order Costume Designs Look Amazing, Especially "Hot Ryu"
This article is just screenshots of the costumes and briefly mentions the "hot Ryu" meme.

This new batch of alternate character designs for SFV, available as a pre-order bonus at North American retailers, provides some incredible new hair-style options (and costumes, but mostly amazing hair-styles) for Ryu, Cammy, Chun-Li and M. Bison. Ryu's alternate has a beard, and his new look has taken Twitter by storm; search for "Hot Ryu" right now if you want to see the hilarity in action.

Rainbow Mika Returns to the Ring In Street Fighter V! She Hasn't Changed A Bit Since 1998.
The full article touches on how her character and design hasn't really evolved much - which sucks because she's "amazing."

Cammy's outfit in Street Fighter V is just as silly as R. Mika's, if not sillier (see above). Cammy has been wearing a tiny green thong leotard for years now, but unlike R. Mika, she doesn't seem willing to wink at us about it. She's presented as a relatively serious character who also happens to be conventionally attractive, and who earnestly wears an outfit that is unintentionally comedic.

As for the reception to R. Mika that I've seen so far? Let me just say, it would be really cool if fans of Street Fighter didn't immediately sexualize her. And also, stop making fun of any woman who says she's uncomfortable about how people are immediately doing that. I'm probably going to play as R. Mika a bit, even though I'm sure that the slow-pan camera angles during her specials will make me roll my eyes. Even that boob-focused camera can't deny that she's totally jacked, her moves are awesome, and her mask is friggin' adorable. And she's got ruffles. So there.

The "Hot Ryu" Meme: Sexiness vs. Sexual Objectification
This is a big article but Maddy is literally arguing for R. Mika to be fleshed out enough to get the "Hot Ryu" treatment.

When people talk about "Hot Ryu," they humanize and personify him, because he is already treated like a human by the game and by society. But there is no meme about cuddling with R. Mika on the couch while watching Netflix with her, because she is perceived as a sex object, not a person. And that is really too bad! Because R. Mika would probably be a very hilarious and delightful girlfriend, based on what we know about her so far. Also, that meme sounds like it would be extremely cute!

 

[Dunki]

There is certainly a double standard for sure



They did not even ask. Imagine men would do this.

 

[Cactuarman]

You also ignored the part were I said girls actually do dress skimpy in real life, even more then most video game characters. Yet people are too scared to say anything to them. Its also having double standards if you don't complain to girls in IRL and say nothing to them, and yet complain about video game characters.
Just like this girl, there are plenty of them who dress like this all the time and go out.

So you're saying its a double standard because no one is telling the woman dressing sexy not to dress sexy, but they are complaining about video game women being sexy? Do you understand though how one group is choosing to dress a certain way ("girls in IRL") and one is being presented as dressed a certain way? I noted in a previous comment that I like fanservice (though not in everything) so I assume I'm not the "they" you're talking about (well, I'm sure I partly am), but I think you're simplifying the position you're arguing against.

Also, you really decided to go with a creep shot to make your point?

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

Whilst we're talking about sexy gaming girls, I'll mention this game 'The Vagrant'.
I guess you could call it an action game with some RPG elements (skill trees, upgrading weapons and armor etc). Visually it looks like Dragons Crown to me. The game overall is very pretty, if you like that art style.
I bought it on release from Steam for only $2. Its back to its "full" $4 price tag now, but in my opinion its worth $15-20. I was very surprised at how high the quality of this game was for such a low price.
It took me about 20 hours to finish on Hard difficulty. I only struggled on some late game boss fights. There are two difficulty levels above this, so maybe you'd wanna play through on those if you think you are good at these types of games.
If you like action and bikini armor, this game is a bargain for $4.

 

[Gorki247]

Talking about fan service; Surprised no one has mention SNK Heroines yet.

Really in support of the publishers for not censoring this game in the west just to please people that weren't going to buy it anyway.

 

[TheDuskwalker]

TheDuskwalker Nice cherry-picking. Here I'll do the thing that you don't want to do and actually link to the articles so people can read them. You don't have to agree with Maddy's opinions, but it would be nice if in the future you didn't try to make your point by leaving out 95% of the context. And I've added a third article by the same author addressing the thing you're trying to criticize.

Street Fighter V's Pre-Order Costume Designs Look Amazing, Especially "Hot Ryu"
This article is just screenshots of the costumes and briefly mentions the "hot Ryu" meme.



Rainbow Mika Returns to the Ring In Street Fighter V! She Hasn't Changed A Bit Since 1998.
The full article touches on how her character and design hasn't really evolved much - which sucks because she's "amazing."




The "Hot Ryu" Meme: Sexiness vs. Sexual Objectification
This is a big article but Maddy is literally arguing for R. Mika to be fleshed out enough to get the "Hot Ryu" treatment.

So what about the "more insidious" comment in regards to Cammy? Does more context add anything to that? Cammy's pretty cool and has a lot of female fans that love her design and cosplay her, so would that make those female cosplayers "more insidious" to there own gender?

Also the 3rd article sounds more like it's trying to spin said double standard for visually appealing outfits for "cool" characters of different genders.

 

[hecatomb]

So you're saying its a double standard because no one is telling the woman dressing sexy not to dress sexy, but they are complaining about video game women being sexy? Do you understand though how one group is choosing to dress a certain way ("girls in IRL") and one is being presented as dressed a certain way? I noted in a previous comment that I like fanservice (though not in everything) so I assume I'm not the "they" you're talking about (well, I'm sure I partly am), but I think you're simplifying the position you're arguing against.

Also, you really decided to go with a creep shot to make your point?

you are just assuming too many things, there is fan service in some games. Though you are just assuming every female is just fan service, could be Cammy just likes looking sexy, like how Mai does in KOF to distract opponents, while beating them up. R.mika also dress like most female wrestlers. Now compared to male wrestlers who wear almost nothing at all, like Zangeif

 

[autoduelist]

The "Hot Ryu" Meme: Sexiness vs. Sexual Objectification
This is a big article but Maddy is literally arguing for R. Mika to be fleshed out enough to get the "Hot Ryu" treatment.

"When people talk about "Hot Ryu," they humanize and personify him, because he is already treated like a human by the game and by society. But there is no meme about cuddling with R. Mika on the couch while watching Netflix with her, because she is perceived as a sex object, not a person. And that is really too bad! Because R. Mika would probably be a very hilarious and delightful girlfriend, based on what we know about her so far. Also, that meme sounds like it would be extremely cute!

Seriously? So snuggle fantasies 'humanize', but sexual fantasies 'dehumanize'? How convenient that falls completely in line with the very many studies that show mens fantasies tend to be explicit, whereas women's fantasies tend to be far more dependent upon emotional connection and romance [ie, snuggling on the couch]. So, hey, men, you are wrong. Stop fantasizing about booty and start thinking about neck rubs.

Worth noting, research also shows men tend to like visual stimulation, wheras women tend to like mental. That couldnt possibly explain why men might like porn mags or scantily clad babes while women love reading about orgies and more via romance novels, right? No, its just because men are wrong. Ignore romance novels, please, because thier complete and total objectification of men is a non-issue.

Heres one article, there are many more not to mention historical data on sales of porn, romance novels, film, and tv which highlight the differences.

https://www.lehmiller.com/blog/2012/2/29/how-do-mens-and-womens-sexual-fantasies-differ.html

So you're saying its a double standard because no one is telling the woman dressing sexy not to dress sexy, but they are complaining about video game women being sexy? Do you understand though how one group is choosing to dress a certain way ("girls in IRL") and one is being presented as dressed a certain way? I noted in a previous comment that I like fanservice (though not in everything) so I assume I'm not the "they" you're talking about (well, I'm sure I partly am), but I think you're simplifying the position you're arguing against.

While i agree the pic he put up is in bad taste, its just a picture.

More important however, is that you are making a rather silly distinction between 'choosing' and 'being presented' and missing the much, much more important distinction of 'real person' verses 'booty pixels'. 1s and 0s.

Not to mention, this sudden importance of presentation seems an absurd and impossible standard to me in this modern world. Everything is presentation. Magazines, film, ads... everything is carefuly crafted presentation. And of -course- some presentation is intentionally sexy. I mean, would you want to live in a world where no artist could present 'sexy'? I sure as hell hope not. And given that, and given people get turned on by different things, doesnt it make sense we get some bikinis here and speedos there?

Since when did the hardcore religious right convert to being so-called progressives? Our artistic freedom has been fought for long and hard over the centuries. People have been executed for creating art some felt obscene or offensive. Sorry, but i'll take 'over sexualization' over prudish authoritarianism any day. This progressive movement claims to be on the right side of history but i'm pretty sure they failed history class or else they'd realize what team they are actually on.

This is coming from someone who doesnt even generally appreciate it [or at least, doesnt seek it out, ever]. My favorite genre is drpgs and i dearly wish they were all medieval like wizardry and bards tale, or even stranger of sword city and not anime or filled with fan service. But whatever, its just pixels.

 

[Maxximus]

There's definitely a limit for me. Completely out of proportion character models are not something I enjoy. I also prefer some of it to be a little more subtle and not giggling in your face.

I like having costume choices in games. Then I can decide what seems appropriate for me.

 

[Enygger_Tzu]

You know guys, I kinda wish to go back in the old days of Neogaf, when R.Mika, the uncensored version of hers was revealed and when Urien was revealed. I am sure the discussion and the comments there would be quite interesting...


Also, as a side note, I always liked how a popular design or character always inspired other companies to search their own character/design choice.

Sometimes you nail it and sometimes you not, but when it is good, it is really good.

The best "me-too" of Felicia.

 

[Nymphae]

You also ignored the part were I said girls actually do dress skimpy in real life, even more then most video game characters. Yet people are too scared to say anything to them.

I've been fighting this fight for years lol. Painted on "pants" are now completely socially acceptable for women of any age. I read a story a few years back about a school principal who wanted to institute a dress code, because of complaints/concerns that a lot of the boys were becoming too distracted by the asses in their faces every second of the day. Seems completely reasonable to me, I've always been in favour of dress codes, you're there to learn, not signal status and peacock. So guess how well that principal's suggestion was received. He was attacked for being a pedophile and being concerned about the asses of little girls. Such an insane world.

Side story lol, I met a girl on Tinder once and we were talking in my car after I picked her up at her place. Somehow we got around to talking about that article I just mentioned. I agreed with the notion of a dress code, and in true loony left fashion, this chick instantly called me a pedophile, tried to smack the vaporizer I was using out of my hand (lol), then spit on my windshield from inside the car, got out, threw a fucking piece of garbage into my car that was on the ground outside, then slammed my door. I drove away laughing lol.

 

[Cactuarman]

So what about the "more insidious" comment in regards to Cammy? Does more context add anything to that? Cammy's pretty cool and has a lot of female fans that love her design and cosplay her, so would that make those female cosplayers "more insidious" to there own gender?

Also the 3rd article sounds more like it's trying to spin said double standard for visually appealing outfits for "cool" characters of different genders.

My point wasn't that you and Maddy would agree on everything, or even that she was right about everything - my point was that you provided zero context to what she was saying and that her thoughts were more elaborate than you made it seem. I even said in my comment that you don't have to agree. But you're doing a disservice to the discussion if you misrepresent the opposing side.

you are just assuming too many things, there is fan service in some games. Though you are just assuming every female is just fan service, could be Cammy just likes looking sexy, like how Mai does in KOF to distract opponents, while beating them up. R.mika also dress like most female wrestlers. Now compared to male wrestlers who wear almost nothing at all, like Zangeif

There is only one assumption in my comment so I don't know what your first sentence is referring to. And the rest of your comment... I'm not even sure we're having the same discussion.

Seriously? So snuggle fantasies 'humanize', but sexual fantasies 'dehumanize'? How convenient that falls completely in line with the very many studies that show mens fantasies tend to be explicit, whereas women's fantasies tend to be far more dependent upon emotional connection and romance [ie, snuggling on the couch]. So, hey, men, you are wrong. Stop fantasizing about booty and start thinking about neck rubs.

Worth noting, research also shows men tend to like visual stimulation, wheras women tend to like mental. That couldnt possibly explain why men might like porn mags or scantily clad babes while women love reading about orgies and more via romance novels, right? No, its just because men are wrong. Ignore romance novels, please, because thier complete and total objectification of men is a non-issue.

Heres one article, there are many more not to mention historical data on sales of porn, romance novels, film, and tv which highlight the differences.

https://www.lehmiller.com/blog/2012/2/29/how-do-mens-and-womens-sexual-fantasies-differ.html

First of all, as I noted above, I never said anyone had to agree with the article - only that posting the articles with NO context in an attempt to make a point does a disservice to the discussion.

Secondly, totally on board with what you're saying about the general differences in the fantasies of men & women. I think Maddy's point though (at least how I interpreted it) is that when a character functions as a visual fantasy it can unfortunately lead to a character that isn't super rounded. Which to me is a perfectly reasonable thing to say. It's easy to find a video game character with big tits. While I certainly like a physically sexy character, if I'm going to spend 100 hours as or interacting with that character a bit of personality is also great. To me characters like Yennefer or Miranda Lawson are so much more sexy and interesting than anyone in DOA Xtreme (I also own that series to be clear).

And I mean, how many "dinner with waifu" pictures do you (royal you, not specifically you) need to see before you realize that it's not PURELY visual for many men. There is value in giving sexy characters personality to connect with. I think that's really the main point.

More important however, is that you are making a rather silly distinction between 'choosing' and 'being presented' and missing the much, much more important distinction of 'real person' verses 'booty pixels'. 1s and 0s.

Yeah I mean, that also makes my point - I disagreed with hecatomb 's logic that in order to avoid a double standard you had to criticize the real person along with the booty pixels. Arguing that no one should care about booty pixels at all is a different discussion.

Not to mention, this sudden importance of presentation seems an absurd and impossible standard to me in this modern world. Everything is presentation. Magazines, film, ads... everything is carefuly crafted presentation. And of -course- some presentation is intentionally sexy. I mean, would you want to live in a world where no artist could present 'sexy'? I sure as hell hope not. And given that, and given people get turned on by different things, doesnt it make sense we get some bikinis here and speedos there?

Since when did the hardcore religious right convert to being so-called progressives? Our artistic freedom has been fought for long and hard over the centuries. People have been executed for creating art some felt obscene or offensive. Sorry, but i'll take 'over sexualization' over prudish authoritarianism any day. This progressive movement claims to be on the right side of history but i'm pretty sure they failed history class or else they'd realize what team they are actually on.

This is coming from someone who doesnt even generally appreciate it [or at least, doesnt seek it out, ever]. My favorite genre is drpgs and i dearly wish they were all medieval like wizardry and bards tale, or even stranger of sword city and not anime or filled with fan service. But whatever, its just pixels.

Come on now, my point with "presentation" was that's there's a difference between that creep shot posted above and Taki for instance ("see, this girl at the grocery store with the short shorts looks sexy therefore women in video games can look sexy" is not a helpful argument because at no point in this thread did anyone argue that women can't dress sexy). I realize all games are a presentation in a way, but I assume you recognize the difference between the Lara Croft of 20 years ago and the Lara Croft of today? So what we're really getting into is the type of presentation. Which is the theme at the heart of the articles presented above. No one is saying we can't have bikinis and speedos.

You really don't need to make the case against "prudish authoritarianism." I assure you at no point have I argued for that (nor has Maddy). I've already said in a previous comment responding to OP that I like fanservice and porn. You don't have to agree with Maddy Myers at the Mary Sue but I don't think her articles should be framed as anything more than another perspective. She wants to acknowledge the difference in the way Ryu and Mika are presented - and she would like Mika to be a bit more fleshed out. Seems fairly reasonable to me.

Also, Bard's Tale is awesome

 

[checkcola]

Ah Elly, one of my video game crushes from back in the day. The short military dress offered great sex appeal. Also, I definitely like most of the Resident Evil ladies. Brainwashed Jill was very cool in RE5. Big fan of Juliet from Lollipop Chainsaw, she's a cutie. Bayonetta is lovely, like that she has different hair styles. Zero Suit Samus rocks. Those are just a handful that stick out in my mind.

 

[Danjin44]

 

[Enygger_Tzu]

Both her appearance and her motto made me a fan of hers. Can't think of what modern Capcom would do to her appearance if she would release at the CURRENT YEAR!

 

[CatCouch]

Both her appearance and her motto made me a fan of hers. Can't think of what modern Capcom would do to her appearance if she would release at the CURRENT YEAR!

I seriously consider Felicia one of the best characters ever! I love her so damn much. I can't wait for this phase where everything sexy is scrutinized and argued over to end so I can get another Capcom fighter with her in it! I want to see Felicia in all her glory on next gen consoles!

 

[Marshmallow]

Attractive females in video games are not just good, great or acceptable, they are WONDERFUL!

And they should keep be in games, regardless of what a small, vocal, offended by pixels minority thinks about it, and the majority that likes them say or type.

To have this conversation today means that our divide in communication is so rabidly escalating.

NEVER FORGET!!

I wonder where you guys were when this was censored.


How come you never heard complains about male gamers getting this censored?

Dramatical Murder's cast, Voldo, Snow - these are characters that I have seen a *ton* of "oversexualized" fanart of by men and women over the years (with many more that I could pull from). However, they cannot be sexualized as they are all supposed 'power fantasies.' If they are called out on this weak excuse, then they fall back on the age-old "but men design all the women" to show how "sexist" and "perverted" the designs are. It is mostly just idiocy.

Imagine thinking voldo of al the people is meant to be attractive.

 

[CatCouch]

I wonder where you guys were when this was censored.


How come you never heard complains about male gamers getting this censored?


Imagine thinking voldo of al the people is meant to be attractive.

I was actually pretty pissed about this, it being mobile made it lower on my outrage scale since I was never going to play it.

I do like sexy dudes, Chris Redfield in RE5 is just crazy hot! I'm really saddened that nearly naked furry males have fallen to the wayside, like Kimahri from Final Fantasy X, Jon Talbain from Darkstalkers and Leo from Red Earth. Bring the sexy (furry dudes) back!

 

[brap]

Nice

I wonder where you guys were when this was censored.

Lmao had no idea this game even existed

How come you never heard complains about male gamers getting this censored?

Surprise surprise most men aren't gay

 

[Danjin44]

Nice

So? It doesn't matter the age. I just really like design.

 

[brap]

So? It doesn't matter the age. I just really like design.

True. She cute.

 

[TheDuskwalker]

Both her appearance and her motto made me a fan of hers. Can't think of what modern Capcom would do to her appearance if she would release at the CURRENT YEAR!

She wouldn't have an attractive face, that's for sure. *looks at Morrigan in MvCI and starts crying*

I wonder where you guys were when this was censored.


How come you never heard complains about male gamers getting this censored?


Imagine thinking voldo of al the people is meant to be attractive.

The same could be asked for your kind, when that happens with female designs you guys usually praise them, so why no praise for Square not "exploiting" that poor piece of polygonal beefcake so we can focus on his personality instead of that sweet man juice? Thanks for posting that though, it does show developers mean for males to be sexualized and not because of "male power fantasy".

This is my first time knowing that game even exists, and yes, I facepalmed at that imagine just as much as I do when this happens with female designs.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I wonder where you guys were when this was censored.


How come you never heard complains about male gamers getting this censored?


Imagine thinking voldo of al the people is meant to be attractive.

I am not surprised that people like that sort of thing. Hell, there are people who find pastel coloured ponies attractive. People are fuckin' weird.

 

[autoduelist]

Secondly, totally on board with what you're saying about the general differences in the fantasies of men & women. I think Maddy's point though (at least how I interpreted it) is that when a character functions as a visual fantasy it can unfortunately lead to a character that isn't super rounded. Which to me is a perfectly reasonable thing to say. It's easy to find a video game character with big tits. While I certainly like a physically sexy character, if I'm going to spend 100 hours as or interacting with that character a bit of personality is also great. To me characters like Yennefer or Miranda Lawson are so much more sexy and interesting than anyone in DOA Xtreme (I also own that series to be clear).

And I mean, how many "dinner with waifu" pictures do you (royal you, not specifically you) need to see before you realize that it's not PURELY visual for many men. There is value in giving sexy characters personality to connect with. I think that's really the main point.

Well, i guess i dont think there is anything wrong with some fiction playing the role of fantasy fulfilment. I mean, thats what porn and romance novels often are, right? And since we seem to be on the same page about desires, id argue its relatively common for the male to fantasize about a woman, a complete stranger, who is just 'dtf'. Its nearly an impossible fantasy for most to fulfill in real life so it makes sense to me we see it in fiction.

Do you see what im saying? What if many guys specifically do not -want- to connect on some deeper level? What if that lack of connection -is- the driving factor o their desire? That is, im saying what some see as an 'objectification' of women [that is, negative] might simply the base desire of many men. Is it fair to villify that base desire? Is it fair to imply men must somehow adopt female sexual desires (snuggling, etc) because their core sexual drive is somehow 'toxic'? What if rather than toxic, its just normal? Potentially driven by biological and reproductive needs beyond their control?

Im not saying all everyone, of course - plenty of dudes want a gf and some entertaiment fulfils that. Id say elena fisher, nate drakes gf then wife, has always fit that role. But there's also a place for a card board cutout rando nympho in fiction, even if some claim that objectifies women... perhaps it just fulfills a need. Just like you can find any and all desires satiated in romance novels [seriously, i researched them and you can find some crazy crazy stuff]. Its okay if a woman just wants a hug, or if she just wants a tall, dark and handsome man [or men] to ravish her.

 

[Marvel]

Best Kitana

 

[hecatomb]

Cactuarman you might not able to read well is your problem, you just assume Cammy and Mika are sexualized, it could be they like dressing that way, just like in IRL good looking girls like to show off.

 

[MoogleMan]

Whilst we're talking about sexy gaming girls, I'll mention this game 'The Vagrant'.
I guess you could call it an action game with some RPG elements (skill trees, upgrading weapons and armor etc). Visually it looks like Dragons Crown to me. The game overall is very pretty, if you like that art style.
I bought it on release from Steam for only $2. Its back to its "full" $4 price tag now, but in my opinion its worth $15-20. I was very surprised at how high the quality of this game was for such a low price.
It took me about 20 hours to finish on Hard difficulty. I only struggled on some late game boss fights. There are two difficulty levels above this, so maybe you'd wanna play through on those if you think you are good at these types of games.
If you like action and bikini armor, this game is a bargain for $4.

Thanks, grabbed this. Looks fun.

To contribute:

My gaming crush to this day (and I'm in my 30s and married...)
Gorgeous, strong and caring.
Wifey material.

 

[Dunki]

I wonder where you guys were when this was censored.


How come you never heard complains about male gamers getting this censored?


Imagine thinking voldo of al the people is meant to be attractive.

i am pretty sure that I was not ok with this any form of censorship is bad. Especially because of cultural differences.

 

[Marshmallow]

Surprise surprise most men aren't gay

You may have heard of those people called women. Whom this game was aimed to. Not that it matters, isn't this the censorship you hate so much? You still focus on a buttslap when one character was entirely re-designed. Where was the outrage for this massive censorship and break of freedom of speech?

The same could be asked for your kind, when that happens with female designs you guys usually praise them, so why no praise for Square not "exploiting" that poor piece of polygonal beefcake so we can focus on his personality instead of that sweet man juice? Thanks for posting that though, it does show developers mean for males to be sexualized and not because of "male power fantasy".

"My kind"? But I have no issues with games like DoA?

I am not surprised that people like that sort of thing. Hell, there are people who find pastel coloured ponies attractive. People are fuckin' weird.

There are also people who find Bordelands 2 Ellie attractive. Do you actually think she's designed as a sex icon? Of do you think the ponies are?

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

I've been fighting this fight for years lol. Painted on "pants" are now completely socially acceptable for women of any age. I read a story a few years back about a school principal who wanted to institute a dress code, because of complaints/concerns that a lot of the boys were becoming too distracted by the asses in their faces every second of the day. Seems completely reasonable to me, I've always been in favour of dress codes, you're there to learn, not signal status and peacock. So guess how well that principal's suggestion was received. He was attacked for being a pedophile and being concerned about the asses of little girls. Such an insane world.

Side story lol, I met a girl on Tinder once and we were talking in my car after I picked her up at her place. Somehow we got around to talking about that article I just mentioned. I agreed with the notion of a dress code, and in true loony left fashion, this chick instantly called me a pedophile, tried to smack the vaporizer I was using out of my hand (lol), then spit on my windshield from inside the car, got out, threw a fucking piece of garbage into my car that was on the ground outside, then slammed my door. I drove away laughing lol.

Is she still single?

That being said if fanservice offends you just don't play said game

 

[brap]

You may have heard of those people called women. Whom this game was aimed to. Not that it matters, isn't this the censorship you hate so much? You still focus on a buttslap when one character was entirely re-designed. Where was the outrage for this massive censorship and break of freedom of speech?

Go tell the women to make a big stink about it then. Like I care if some guy is wearing more clothes. And what buttslap? What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[Marshmallow]

Go tell the women to make a big stink about it then. Like I care if some guy is wearing more clothes.

So I guess censorship is fine or not?

 

[Enygger_Tzu]

To be fair I'd agree with at least two of those...

I wonder where you guys were when this was censored.


How come you never heard complains about male gamers getting this censored?

Don't know, maybe you should ask the guys that shamed those for liking R. Mika's original, uncensored design and movepool.

 

[Danjin44]

 

[Denton]

I'm just talking about nature, half of the people born are female. that half of gamers are not female means their is a huge untapped market there.

Read
https://medium.com/@adrianchm/women-and-video-games-f0eb7a7d75fa

 

[Enygger_Tzu]

Read
https://medium.com/@adrianchm/women-and-video-games-f0eb7a7d75fa

And to add to that.

https://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/

Female gamers play different games than male gamers. Simple as that.

 

[hecatomb]

the female fantasy also has less to do with sexualizing males, if females wanted to sexualize males there would be a lot more movies like magic mike, 50 shades of grey and twilight would be made. Though most females fantasize about relationships, and not about sex, its also why they read more about romantic novels and romantic movies, cause thats their fantasy, having the perfect relationship.

 

[CatCouch]

Read
https://medium.com/@adrianchm/women-and-video-games-f0eb7a7d75fa

That was a great read! It hit on a few things that have been bothering me like the push to just replace male characters with female characters like that's all it takes. Different types of games should be welcome and covered more, not just the big AAA games with accompanying opinions about how terrible they are for women or whatever.

I liked Gone Home a lot. I play Hidden Object games every so often. Games with female leads are great to me, I'm playing Remothered right now! I also just got the platinum for Megadimension Neptunia VIIR meaning I like a wide variety of games and depictions of women. When I read most discussions/articles on games and women I get the impression they don't think I exist at all. It's depressing. You're one extreme or the other.

The gaming press is terrible at letting me know these hidden object games exist at all and I almost completely missed Remothered until I saw a review for it on DualShockers. I really hate the kind of fake care about representation and diversity in games from writers who don't bother to cover games that help their cause. "Cultural colonialism" seems like a fitting moniker for this. These are complicated issues that shouldn't be boiled down to "men bad, women good". Pitting one against the other seems to only benifit the writers who get the clicks for the"culture war" which, imo, is terrible for growing the industry.

 

[MomsNewBoyfriend]

no one wants to play ugly or boring looking characters. not even ugly people

 

[haxan7]

what's the gif in the OP from? for research purposes

no one wants to play ugly or boring looking characters. not even ugly people

Meh, I find I can relate to less attractive characters more than perfect ones.

Peep Show >>>>>>> Friends

 

[hecatomb]

Jessica from dragon quest https://78.media.tumblr.com/cb4e040dd0ef1dde5070695c2e1aba35/tumblr_pbqmkxS3HX1x6aalgo1_1280.jpg

 

[Danjin44]

Jessica from dragon quest https://78.media.tumblr.com/cb4e040dd0ef1dde5070695c2e1aba35/tumblr_pbqmkxS3HX1x6aalgo1_1280.jpg

I personally like her in Akira Toriyama's artstyle.

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

no one wants to play ugly or boring looking characters. not even ugly people

As an ugly person, I can confirm this.

 

[Cactuarman]

Well, i guess i dont think there is anything wrong with some fiction playing the role of fantasy fulfilment. I mean, thats what porn and romance novels often are, right? And since we seem to be on the same page about desires, id argue its relatively common for the male to fantasize about a woman, a complete stranger, who is just 'dtf'. Its nearly an impossible fantasy for most to fulfill in real life so it makes sense to me we see it in fiction.

Do you see what im saying? What if many guys specifically do not -want- to connect on some deeper level? What if that lack of connection -is- the driving factor o their desire? That is, im saying what some see as an 'objectification' of women [that is, negative] might simply the base desire of many men. Is it fair to villify that base desire? Is it fair to imply men must somehow adopt female sexual desires (snuggling, etc) because their core sexual drive is somehow 'toxic'? What if rather than toxic, its just normal? Potentially driven by biological and reproductive needs beyond their control?

Im not saying all everyone, of course - plenty of dudes want a gf and some entertaiment fulfils that. Id say elena fisher, nate drakes gf then wife, has always fit that role. But there's also a place for a card board cutout rando nympho in fiction, even if some claim that objectifies women... perhaps it just fulfills a need. Just like you can find any and all desires satiated in romance novels [seriously, i researched them and you can find some crazy crazy stuff]. Its okay if a woman just wants a hug, or if she just wants a tall, dark and handsome man [or men] to ravish her.

Totally agree with most of what you're saying - there is absolutely a place for "a card board cutout rando nympho in fiction" and that should exist. My point was never in opposition to that. And frankly never was Maddy Myer's opinion (at least in the articles presented). My point was that someone saying "it would be nice if that rando nympho wasn't as 'card board'" is perfectly fine (or at least should be IMO) and it shouldn't be seen as an affront to male desire or whatever.

I would not agree with nor approve of vilifying a base desire. My original issue is that a commenter took someone like Maddy Myers, who I would argue is fairly reasonable (again, at least in the articles presented), and tried to paint her as this hypocritical feminist by just taking two headlines and a quote and presenting that as if it's the entity of her opinion. As I've said from the beginning - you don't have to agree but intentionally framing it so what she is saying looks more extreme is doing a disservice to the discussion. It's straw-manning to prove a point when all she really wanted was for Mika to be as fleshed out as Ryu because she already seemed to have some cool traits that could be built on.

 

[hecatomb]

theres some characters you can't add much too, like Mika is just a wrestler, she's not meant to be taken seriously, even in the main story she's more of a side character, Zangeif has been around since SF2 and also has always been a side character in the main story, a long with Blanka and E.Honda.

 

[autoduelist]

Totally agree with most of what you're saying - there is absolutely a place for "a card board cutout rando nympho in fiction" and that should exist. My point was never in opposition to that. And frankly never was Maddy Myer's opinion (at least in the articles presented). My point was that someone saying "it would be nice if that rando nympho wasn't as 'card board'" is perfectly fine (or at least should be IMO) and it shouldn't be seen as an affront to male desire or whatever.

I would not agree with nor approve of vilifying a base desire. My original issue is that a commenter took someone like Maddy Myers, who I would argue is fairly reasonable (again, at least in the articles presented), and tried to paint her as this hypocritical feminist by just taking two headlines and a quote and presenting that as if it's the entity of her opinion. As I've said from the beginning - you don't have to agree but intentionally framing it so what she is saying looks more extreme is doing a disservice to the discussion. It's straw-manning to prove a point when all she really wanted was for Mika to be as fleshed out as Ryu because she already seemed to have some cool traits that could be built on.

I feel a bit like you'xre trying to have your cake and eat it too. Like, oh, it's fine to have a shallow character. But... not Mika. And not her. Or her. Maybe her... no, not her either. Do you see what im saying? Its either okay, or it isn't. Note that i know absolutely nothing about the characters in question. Im just pointing out that having one character 'fleshed out' may service one group, whereas having another be a sexpot would service another. Asking that the sexpot be fleshed out to the same degree misses the entire point, because then she wouldn't be that 'blank page' some want. And i dont mean blank as in dumb, but blank as in 'filled in by the audience'.

Like, its one thing to talk about generalities, but that must be applicable to specific examples as well. If you're ok with a sexpot archetype, then you should be okay with any specific example, or else its just a moving goalpost.

I also dont know a thing about these articles or the author. Im simply discussing her points, which to me, seem problematic. Its okay for ryu to be sexualized in a dreamy, emotional, snuggle way... i disagree with the notion this somehow humanizes the pixels more, and makes it somehow ok and legitimate to get your horny on whereas big booty without the snugs isnt and is a failing of both the writers and the audience. No, its just different kinks.

I mean, we live in a world where glory holes and random sex meetups are a thing. I think this clearly tells us not everyone wants a connection, let alone a deep one.

 

[Pejo]

I personally like her in Akira Toriyama's artstyle.

I am so conflicted on this. On one hand, I like the art style, but they will forever be "DBZ characters in a game" to me.