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=( Australia... a nation of racists?
- Thread starter shanshan310
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Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
:lolBlackace said:
Also, I don't 'hate' Canada, but like I said, working with my fellow countrymen left a VERY poor taste in my mouth (of laziness) whereas the Yanks I was working with (except for 1) were surprisingly dedicated.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Kuro Madoushi said:
At my GEPIK orientation me and some English and Canadian guys got really angry because a group of Americans were just using a "Your Opinion of Korea So Far" lecture and Q&A section as a soapbox for how America was better and/or how Korean teachers/people were unfair/racist/whatever. As far as I'm concerned, the Korean taxpayers are paying for my shit - so who am I to complain about how Korea differs unfavourably to Scotland/Britain.
The only time in which I'd say something regarding Scotland being better than Korea is in regards to the education system - and that is generally only when I am talking with my co-teachers. But I don't take the stance that "Scotland's education system is better because they do this/that" my stance usually is lamenting the fact that due to the sheer number of students in Korean schools they don't have the same opportunities as Scottish students. That and the whole fact that Korean kids study to death and have exams pretty much every six weeks.
Kuro Madoushi said:
I know an Australian GEPIK teacher and we once got talking on racism in her country. She was quite upfront about how bad it can get there.
Also relevant to the discussion here: my mother is Australian, but she considers herself Scottish through-and-through because she moved here when she was young.
jim-jam bongs
Member
BowieZ said:
Considering that being white is a condition for loving Australia to the people who wear those t-shirts, you're grasping at straws here.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
I'm latino and came over here when I was four years old. I’ve been at the receiving end of racism, invariably from bogans. For those of you not in the know, bogans are the ignorant, jingoistic, drunken, anti-intellectual morons you find inhabiting certain working-class and rural areas. Of the population of Australia, they’re essentially the worst sort – the kind that will take for granted that the world owes them privileged treatment by virtue of birth and who will try to pull you down if you dare to try to rise above their level. They’re the kind of people who will get Australian flag or Southern Cross tattoos and spout the sort of slogans in the OP. Think of them as Australia’s white trash, rednecks, neds or chavs.
Now, there’s nothing wrong with patriotism when it’s appropriate (Australia Day, ANZAC Day and major International sporting events), but Australia has never been a traditionally flag-waving, oath-taking, second-verse-of-the-national-anthem-knowing sort of country, so when you see that someone has gotten a Southern Cross tatt on their shoulder, you know it’s less about genuine national pride than it is about the “Us Vs Them” mentality that these people have fallen into. It makes me wary of them and truth to tell, prejudices me in my opinion of them.
The worst part is when they want to be racist to me, but donÂ’t recognise the ethnic group I belong to. IÂ’ve been called slurs against Samoans, Arabs, Philipinos, Indians and once even Greeks/Italians. I used to correct people, but then they usually just assume that the country I was born in is part of Spain, so I gave up.
All that said, I love this country and couldnÂ’t imagine living anywhere else. The people I described are the minority and while they make everything they touch just a little bit more crap than it should be, the vast majority of people here arenÂ’t like that. Sure, theyÂ’ll take the piss out of you, but they do that to everyone, including themselves.
Aborigines do always get the short end of the stick though.
Now, there’s nothing wrong with patriotism when it’s appropriate (Australia Day, ANZAC Day and major International sporting events), but Australia has never been a traditionally flag-waving, oath-taking, second-verse-of-the-national-anthem-knowing sort of country, so when you see that someone has gotten a Southern Cross tatt on their shoulder, you know it’s less about genuine national pride than it is about the “Us Vs Them” mentality that these people have fallen into. It makes me wary of them and truth to tell, prejudices me in my opinion of them.
The worst part is when they want to be racist to me, but donÂ’t recognise the ethnic group I belong to. IÂ’ve been called slurs against Samoans, Arabs, Philipinos, Indians and once even Greeks/Italians. I used to correct people, but then they usually just assume that the country I was born in is part of Spain, so I gave up.
All that said, I love this country and couldnÂ’t imagine living anywhere else. The people I described are the minority and while they make everything they touch just a little bit more crap than it should be, the vast majority of people here arenÂ’t like that. Sure, theyÂ’ll take the piss out of you, but they do that to everyone, including themselves.
Aborigines do always get the short end of the stick though.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
BowieZ said:
Not really.
A lot of the people who use these sayings tend to use terms like "wetbacks" and whatnot.
Both Aus and the US are immigrate countries. So this "SPEAK ENGLISH OR GET OUT" stuff is geared at people different than them...
it is ignorant.
jim-jam bongs
Member
BowieZ said:
Blackace said:
Australia - LOVE IT or LEAVE IT
Nope, no racism here. Just good old-fashioned xenophobia. Would you prefer that word?
FormallyMegadrive
Member
POWERSPHERE said:
Yeah? They renamed a perfectly finely named station to SOUTHERN CROSS STATION.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
BowieZ said:
What does that statement mean? How many people really "hate" a country like Aus? Not many. Most people might hate the laws, policies and what have you. Disagree with who they go to war with and all that. These statements are aimed at those people just as much as a person who flatout hates Aus.
And I would say most of the people who own and flaunt these kind of shirts have strong feelings about people who don't speak English well or at all. But a lot of this is a reflex of living when passing through states like Idaho or the swamps down south.
BowieZ said:
Facebook; the bible of the Internet. pfft
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
You and me both. Sucks how the Southern Cross symbol has been tainted like this. It turned something so innocuous into a stamp that screams "SCUM".POWERSPHERE said:Has anyone mentioned the magical Mega Bogan trend of Southern Cross tattoos? That shit should be illegal... Sure it 'should' just be a sign of patriotism, but it's basically been co-opted into a banner of White Is Right bullshit.
If anyone goes to a summer festival, that's the hive of the moronic shirtless cunts that get them.
Makes me sick...
EDIT: I think B!TCH's hate has a story behind it. Possibly an Aussie stole his girl?
BowieZ said:
It is a self-aggrandizing expression of nationalism; it has an accusatory rhetorical turn to it. It says, more directly than you will likely admit, 'I love this country more than you'. That might be a dim and (to me) obnoxious implication more than it is a dangerous one, but it is unarguably a presumptuous one. Presumption is a catalysing ingredient in prejudice, and the kind of people who wear nationalist t-shirts probably have the rest of the ingredients in abundance.
It makes urgent, divisive, and personal what is, in a civil, democratic, and multicultural society, an issue of background significance. It's meant to put people who aren't in the same social and racial field as the t-shirt wearer on the back foot - to make them question themselves.
MrToughPants
Brian Burke punched my mom
Was it GAF that had Australian IPs banned for a while?
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Epcott said:
Not sure about the English, but there's a mixed bag of racism/xenophobia in Scotland. I'd say that the people we "hate" the most are the Irish. But then again that may be because most of my friends are Hearts fans.
I've noticed that quite recently Anti-Scottish racism in England seems to be rising.
Australia definitely has racists, but I don't think it's more or less than most other countries around the world.
I do think there's a perception that's it's higher than it is due to the nature of Australia's ability to take the piss out of anyone and anything.
I mean, if some person came here they'd probably hear me make an Asian driver joke and they'd throw me in with the southern cross tattoo bogans
I do think there's a perception that's it's higher than it is due to the nature of Australia's ability to take the piss out of anyone and anything.
I mean, if some person came here they'd probably hear me make an Asian driver joke and they'd throw me in with the southern cross tattoo bogans
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
LOZLINK said:
Nah, I'm a Canuck. The Aussies and Kiwi's (who didn't like Canadians either) I worked with were actually pretty decent people. Like I said, it could've been the school I was at. Hell, even when I was working at the bank here, all the immigrants (Filipino, Jamaican, Chinese) were working a lot harder than those who were born here (one girl who was quitting decided to take numerous sick days, and come late/leave early, and one other woman was just really slow and didn't care about her work). Though the managers, who were all Canadian, were the exception to the rule.
Industrian - I actually had one of those lectures my 2nd year working in Korea. Man, was that awkward...why the school decided we needed to know 'more' about Korea (like we weren't learning enough living and working there) was really strange.
Just going to throw in my unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence. I am a white immigrant to Australia, I moved here when I was 2 years old, and sometimes cop the 'flew here, grew here' shit (hi Choc 
j/k), and often get told if I'm not a proper Aussie my opinion on Australia really doesn't matter. Does it happen very often? No Do I punch those ignorant fucks in the face? I wish. But I think the real issue in Australia is not racism, but general xenophobia. It manifests as racism, but really just because it is easiest to see when racial slurs are being thrown around.
Now I'm not saying it's pervasive, it is only a very small minority of people, but they are very vocal.
j/k), and often get told if I'm not a proper Aussie my opinion on Australia really doesn't matter. Does it happen very often? No Do I punch those ignorant fucks in the face? I wish. But I think the real issue in Australia is not racism, but general xenophobia. It manifests as racism, but really just because it is easiest to see when racial slurs are being thrown around.Now I'm not saying it's pervasive, it is only a very small minority of people, but they are very vocal.
Yeah, about time.Kipz said:
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
viciouskillersquirrel said:
The image of the Union Jack and St. George's Cross both suffer from their overuse by far-right British groups.
viciouskillersquirrel said:
I know a Canadian guy who said the exact same thing B!TCH said to my face. It was quite a sight to behold really.
The Storyteller
Member
MrToughPants said:
I'm not sure about that. But If I recall correctly a crazy Ausgaffer hacked the forum and brought it down for a few days. There was a lot of Aussie hating on the site after that, based on the actions of one person.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Replicant said:
See, this is an element of the cultural feel that I truly dislike. Why is it that Caucasions brought up in Australia are near-exclusively called "Australian"? They are no more or less Australian than other people born in the country. Their ancestors, much like most everyone born in the country, were immigrants. And when we talk about those truly indigenous to the country, we nearly always call them some form of "Aborigines" - only in formal settings have I heard them called "indigenous Australians" - which is really a placeholder for "natives". I don't think there's anything malicious about it, but there's a subtle and pervasive sensibility in Australian society that, if you are the descendant of immigrants from a non-European country, you will never belong as much as those descended from European places. You will never be described as "Australian" in everyday conversation; instead, you will be called "Asian", "African", etc.
Maybe if the country was actually European it could be justified. But really, Australia still lives as an Anglocized culture in an Asian setting. However, it's early days yet. It hasn't been a century since Britain stopped exerting overt power over Australia (if we are to ignore Menzies and the Whitlam debacle), but, in time, perhaps kids of non-European descent will be closer on that scale of being perceived as "Australian". This is one area where we should envy America. Of course, there are issues of scale, but nevertheless, the term "American" spreads to include most of her citizens, regardless of background. We haven't quite grasped that multicultural authority yet, but I'm pretty optimistic about the next few generations.
Moreover, this is one of the reasons I feel strongly about republicanism in Australia. Perceived Australian identity languishes at home and abroad in very outdated tones. Keating was on this very track in the 90s before his untimely exit. However, it isn't the silver bullet, and although it would be a great symbolic victory for establishing a more accurate and independent reflection of where we are as a nation, that can be done without it, as well. (e.g. Canada)
Tim the Wiz
Banned
BowieZ said:
Salazar said:
Couldn't have said it better.
choodi
Banned
viciouskillersquirrel said:
Everything this man said is true.
Australians are not generally racist (there is maybe a bit of general xenophobia), but there are plenty of racists in this country (the bogans in Cronulla proved that to the world).
The same applies to migrants to Australia. Most are eager to participate in Australian culture 100%, but there is still a minority (who have been disaffected in whatever way) who will do everything they can to reject Australian culture 100%.
When the two minorities meet, there is going to be a problem and unfortuntely it is usually the case that both groups are uneducated, poor and end up living in the same areas.
In the end there is a certain level of blame on both sides of the fence.
Immigrants do have a right to maintain their culture, but they also have a responsibility to fit in with the rest of Australian culture. It should not be viewed as absolutes though - the whole "You must adopt the Australian way of life or else fuck off back to your own country" standpoint is as idiotic as the "I will only maintain my culture and language and never adopt any Australian culture at all" lunacy.
The whole "multicultural" concept is based on all cultures sharing their culture with the rest of the country and the rest of the country embracing the different cultures present here to make one big (multi)culture made up of cultures from around the world.
Italians, Geeks, Vietnamese, Chinese and many other migrant groups have made an invaluable contribution to Australian society, and this country would never have experienced the same level of success without these groups. What people need to realise is that each of these groups experienced problems with fitting in when they first arrived, but tolerance and acceptance on both sides has changed that for the better.
liquid_gears
Banned
industrian said:
'Anti-Scottish racism' :lol
What, where like Scots are distinctly discriminated against? I'm not saying that you're wrong, it seems ludicrous. Do you have any examples? All the piss taking and rivalry that I've experienced with the Scots has always been underlined with a sort of New Zealand-Australia type relationship, it's not really vindictive or spiteful.
Scots have been over-represented in Westminster for a long time though and English students have to pay fees at Sottish universities whilst no other country in the EU has this problem. I understand the reasons why, but that is shameful imo. People are obviously pissed about that and Alex Salmond isn't exactly the most popular figure down here.
Even so, the two are growing apart all the time though which is disappointing. Whether it be next year, in 10 years or 20 years, Scotland will get its independence.
Rangers fans aren't too popular in Manchester either :lol
Mohonky
Member
Replicant said:
The message is different in both, though both are paraded around by dickheads. The first is obviously a load of shit. The second I do kind of agree with in a certain sense. Australian's tend be very proud; great beaches, laid back attitudes and a happy go lucky attitude which is often criticised by those who come into the country and then complain about the general Australian attitude or laws.
I don't see a problem with the latter, if you don't like the place; leave. That goes for any country. I wouldn't go to another country, describe the people as batshit insane and then try and force my agenda on everyone else to make it more like the place I previously lived.
There are people of all cultures, ethnic backgrounds and nationalities in Australia and it's generally welcomed, it's only when you get secular groups that refuse to integrate in any way and instead demand everyone around them behave and adhere to their beliefs that things get messy. For instance, the whole 'Christmas' period has been a long debate here as there are groups that want the government to ban the display of christmas decorations in public and in school because it doesn't fit in with their religious background. In that case I'm sorry but if you moved to another country and didn't like the local festivities or customs, no matter how bizarre or removed from your own they maybe, why'd you fucking move in the first place?
My best mate in highschool was Greek and as such hanging out with him meant I was also hanging out with many other Greeks and Lebanese or 'Wogs' as they referred to themselves as. I think because I was around so much they often forgot I was a white Australian and they were forever bitching about 'skippy white poofs,' how Australian girls were easy sluts and how Australia was full of rascist pigs because the coppers were always picking on them which was rather ironic when one of them drove like a complete dipshit and spent most nights bragging about how the latest addition to his car was paid for with some chics stolen credit card.
I don't put all the local Greeks and Lebanese in with those guys and my best mate at the time was a great guy but at the same time he carried this really grating mentality that as a 'wog' he simply couldn't let something slide, he had to get in everyones face about something and this more often than not led to violence and a few run ins with the police.
Obviously I don't PUT everyone in the same boat but I will admit that there is a fair amount of tension, mostly from younger individuals (early to late teens and young adults) where there is some sort of cultural divide where minorities from both side of the fence tend to get shit off with one another for whatever reason, usually it's either feeling hard done by or just the mentality that yes, if you think Australia is such a bad place then by all means, please fuck off and leave us alone.
I think the fact Australia is an island doesn't help, it's not like Europe where you can drive for 6 hrs and pass through 5 different countries with different beliefs and what have you and everyone is basically 'forced' to integrate whether they really like it or not, so here being so isolated you either adapt or harbour resentment.
As an Australian I've also lived in Asia and the Middle East so I know what being the minority is, but I also know that trying to change those around me is like fighting with a brick wall, I just accept things for what they are which is not the mentality everyone seems to carry.
Yes, there are racists here and yes some are more extreme than others, but then again as a white Australian male I've copped my fair share of 'hey you fucking white skippy cunt' comments from others simply for walking down the street.
i_am_ben
running_here_and_there
why are people in this thread referring to Aboriginals at the time of the first fleet as being the real Australians? The country of Australia wouldn't exist for over a hundred years later so I find it just as silly to argue that they're the real Australians and not these bogans running around claiming to be Australian.
Dead Man Typing
Member
Rangers fans aren't too popular in Glasgow either... (I kid, I kid)
Anyway, Australia was a quite racist place when I was there earlier this year. A lot of negative talk about Aborigines from some of the people I worked with. Most violence or vandilism was attributed to them by people I talked to ("the windows of the school have been broken" - "That'll be those aboriginals") both young and old.
And even though you do get those tensions in all countries, it did seem a little more tactile in Aus. I don't know if it's because I attended a catholic school, (so minorities were kept to a minimum) or if I generally lead a sheltered life in Scotland, but I never really encoutered much racism here. Class discrimination has always been the big deal around here.
I do remember seeing a bumper sticker when I was in Aus that had a picture of the country with the phrase "Fuck Off, we're full!" written in the middle. That made me feel weird. Especially since there's only around 25 million people in the whole of Australia when there's 65 million in the whole of the UK, which is a lot smaller and we're not full.
So I don't want to condem Australia, it's just going to take a little longer for people to adjust and adapt to changing social environments. As a white Scot in Aus, people were nothing but kind and friendly to me, even though I took a job from some poor Australian.
Also, they are a little lazy. I worked in a warehouse for 6 months and within the first 2 months I was second in charge, if my visa hadn't run out I'd have been running that place because the manager resigned around the end of month 3 and I had to train her replacement(an Irish bloke, good guy).
Anyway, Australia was a quite racist place when I was there earlier this year. A lot of negative talk about Aborigines from some of the people I worked with. Most violence or vandilism was attributed to them by people I talked to ("the windows of the school have been broken" - "That'll be those aboriginals") both young and old.
And even though you do get those tensions in all countries, it did seem a little more tactile in Aus. I don't know if it's because I attended a catholic school, (so minorities were kept to a minimum) or if I generally lead a sheltered life in Scotland, but I never really encoutered much racism here. Class discrimination has always been the big deal around here.
I do remember seeing a bumper sticker when I was in Aus that had a picture of the country with the phrase "Fuck Off, we're full!" written in the middle. That made me feel weird. Especially since there's only around 25 million people in the whole of Australia when there's 65 million in the whole of the UK, which is a lot smaller and we're not full.
So I don't want to condem Australia, it's just going to take a little longer for people to adjust and adapt to changing social environments. As a white Scot in Aus, people were nothing but kind and friendly to me, even though I took a job from some poor Australian.
Also, they are a little lazy. I worked in a warehouse for 6 months and within the first 2 months I was second in charge, if my visa hadn't run out I'd have been running that place because the manager resigned around the end of month 3 and I had to train her replacement(an Irish bloke, good guy).
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
liquid_gears said:
That's the problem with intra-British racism, a lot of people can't distinguish proper hatred with the "oh you Jocks/Taffys/Sassenachs/Paddys" that gets thrown about at football and rugby games in jest.
liquid_gears said:
But this rant is going down the path where modern Anti-Scots racism has it's roots. A rising number of English people seem to have it in their heads that Scots are collectively to blame for the current financial crisis because of the fact that a number of Scots have effectively run the country for the past decade and as such have given Scotland unfair benefits. It's called the "Scottish Mafia" theory, and it runs the gamut from a comical joke right the way through to guys like Kelvin MacKenzie (whom ironically has the most Scottish name in the world next to "Hamish McTavish") who propagates anti-Scottish rhetoric solely to sell newspapers in England.
liquid_gears said:
I give it until 2015 if the Conservatives win the UK General Election.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
If you want to get technical about it, they're the first Australasians and first claimants of the land we now inhabit. Since Australasia is mostly taken up by Australia, it stands to reason that these are conflated.i_am_ben said:
I think it's racist to stereotype Australian's as racists.
Most of the racism issues get resolved quietly (gangs of opposing races brawling in the city is common at night).
I must admit that i am concerned by the high level of immigrants (especially illegal) reaches our shores though. Our infrastructure can only handle so much, with the constant rewards for popping out a child (baby bonus) and other incentives for starting a family, we aren't very well placed for the future.
Most of the racism issues get resolved quietly (gangs of opposing races brawling in the city is common at night).
I must admit that i am concerned by the high level of immigrants (especially illegal) reaches our shores though. Our infrastructure can only handle so much, with the constant rewards for popping out a child (baby bonus) and other incentives for starting a family, we aren't very well placed for the future.
Mohonky said:
Except that the majority of people who wear that kind of shirt or say that kind of thing do not just direct that comment to people who badmouth Australia/ns. They say it to practically anyone who fits their description of "others". They usually see an "other" and assume that just because a person belongs to a specific cultural group, they most likely have the mentality of hating Australia, which is not true. That's the problem with treating people as a group of culture as opposed to by individual per individual basis. How often do you see dickheads yelling at someone with different ethnic background (the current flavor seems to be Indians/anyone with middle-eastern appearance) "Go back to your own country!"? Quite often and they don't even know what kind of political view the person has. He/she may not even have one and was just walking/minding his/her own business.
By all means if you *know* someone who keeps badmouthing Australia/ns and try to change our way of life, tell them off. But that kind of behavior is appalling when directed at people you don't even know in the first place (ie. random strangers you see on the street), let alone their country/political affiliation. Put it this way: if someone with different ethnic background from you see you wearing such t-shirt, wouldn't they be wary about your perception of ethnic people in general?
Mohonky
Member
Replicant said:
Not gonna argue that, the sort of dropkick that wears that sort of shirt is undoubtedly a dick, as are the majority of bogans with the stupid southern cross tats. Just pointing out that choosing not to integrate and simply not being born here are two different statements. Though both are inevitably used by the same type of bogan fucktard.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
Illegal immigrants amount to something like a half a percent of the people coming in each year, which in terms of infrastructure planning, is negligible. It's such a non-issue, but ever since Howard turned boat people into terrorist bogeymen, it has gotten way overblown in the media.Puck said:
I think sometimes there is an impression that thousands of illegal immigrants are arriving every week. The most recent government figures I could find: http://www.aph.gov.au/library/Pubs/cib/1999-2000/2000cib13.htm#scsPuck said:
And: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@...964f93de8bb5c425ca2570ec000bf8f8!OpenDocument
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
*High-fives idahoblue*
Every country has issues with integrating immigrants, but what I find interesting about Australia, is that when there are issues, it's with 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants, rather than those who have come to Australia directly.
I'm not sure why that is. Whether it's due to a failure on behalf of the parents to try and integrate their kids, or a reaction against 'white' Australia that won't welcome them, but it seems unique compared to other countries. I'm thinking it's a little bit of both.
In Sydney the police have actually set up a 'middle eastern crime squad', in response to the high crime rates amongst middle eastern, particularly Lebanese, youths. Whether that's considered a sign of racism or not, I don't know. But from my own personal experience, these are people who were born in Australia. They're pretty much as Australian as I am (my father was English). Yet, they seem to create some romantic notion of their parents homeland, despite the fact that most of the time their parents came here for a better life. It's a strange thing.
What I think it boils down to is that despite all the claims that Australia is really multicultural (and if you look at the statistics, is seems as though were are), a lot of cultures are still compartmentalised. Asians hang out with Asians. Lebanese hang out with Lebanese. Pacific Islanders hang out with Pacific Islanders, and Italians hang out with Italians. Anyone who went to school in Australia knows this is true.
I'm not sure why that is. Whether it's due to a failure on behalf of the parents to try and integrate their kids, or a reaction against 'white' Australia that won't welcome them, but it seems unique compared to other countries. I'm thinking it's a little bit of both.
In Sydney the police have actually set up a 'middle eastern crime squad', in response to the high crime rates amongst middle eastern, particularly Lebanese, youths. Whether that's considered a sign of racism or not, I don't know. But from my own personal experience, these are people who were born in Australia. They're pretty much as Australian as I am (my father was English). Yet, they seem to create some romantic notion of their parents homeland, despite the fact that most of the time their parents came here for a better life. It's a strange thing.
What I think it boils down to is that despite all the claims that Australia is really multicultural (and if you look at the statistics, is seems as though were are), a lot of cultures are still compartmentalised. Asians hang out with Asians. Lebanese hang out with Lebanese. Pacific Islanders hang out with Pacific Islanders, and Italians hang out with Italians. Anyone who went to school in Australia knows this is true.
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