Support NeoGAF

[boltz]

Considering some used BMWs with about 12k budget. Looks like that gets me about a 2013 3 series or 2009 5 series. What models should I be looking at? Any years to avoid?

Also considering Yukons or Yukon style vehicles. Baby is coming in October and I'm worried about safety rating and baby carrying ability. I'm selling my Jeep and I'm currently looking at Yukons and BMW sedans, both of which I've owned in the past and really liked. Looks like my budget gets me about 2008-2012 Yukon Denali.

Assuming that you have just the one baby, a Yukon is a bit overkill. A BMW sedan would be much more enjoyable to drive and should have no issue handling one baby. I regularly tote around three carseats in the backseat of my Evo X.

 

[BOOTY ME$$IAH]

Hey guys, I was wondering if you all could help me out! So for about the past year, my friends mentioned that my car makes an odd whirring sound. It's a 2013 Kia Optima, and he told me it sounds to him like my wheel bearings are going out on the Front Passenger side. In the past month it's gotten a bit louder, and when i'm driving about 30-40mph with the windows down I hear a whirring sound that sounds like a slide or small metal rub. If I slow down it slows down, and of course when I speed up it speeds up.

I recently had my brakes and rotors replaced at the dealer, but I know it's not my brakes because I hear that sound when I'm not stepping on them, it's happens no matter what when the car's moving.

Would you guys say it's probably the wheel bearings? If so, how tough is it to replace?

Also, pics!

 

[ElyrionX]

Having been burned before I don't believe I would own an out of warranty BMW. Too many things go wrong that, because it is a BMW, are expensive to fix unless you can do it yourself (which takes time, space and knowledge). My 09 128i (which had the non turbo inline 6) had multiple oil leaks, a failed thermostat and a bum ABS sensor in the less than 20k miles that I put on it.

I'm back to Japanese cars and feeling much better about life at this point.

I don't quite get BMWs. I hear a ton of horror stories about them being unreliable and owners always having to spend time and money in the workshop, more than any other brand really. And yet they are still so sought after.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I don't quite get BMWs. I hear a ton of horror stories about them being unreliable and owners always having to spend time and money in the workshop, more than any other brand really. And yet they are still so sought after.

More than anything else you will buy in your lifetime, the automobile is the most emotional purchase. I would argue most people don't really care about a bunch of numbers like horsepower or 0-60 time or foot-pounds of torque or quarter mile or skidpad rating or even how many goddamned cupholders it has when they buy a car. No, the car gets bought on how it makes them feel.

BMW has successfully infused an emotional attachment which comes with every car they sell. Once this attachment exists to your brand, it's possible to actually make cars which randomly explode and people will still buy them anyways.

There's a reason why car commercials generally tell you literally nothing about the car. Instead it's all dramatic music, wide-angle landscape shots, blurry tunnels, and a shining car purring as it's driven through these image macros while a male narrator with a deep voice utters winning statements about feelings. No car commercial is narrated by a woman. Watch them sometime if you don't believe me. And then at the end, after literally nothing is actually quantified about the car, the commercial ends with the brand slogan, which for decades has been "The Ultimate Driving Machine" for BMW.

Very few companies are able to literally infuse positive emotional value into a brand, but if you hold one of these brands you hold something that is literally priceless. Apple is probably the prime example of this today. BMW and Porsche have both done this. And the real reason why every incumbent automaker on Earth should be shitting themselves right now is because Tesla is successfully building the same emotional mystique around their brand without actually spending a dime on advertising.

 

[SliChillax]

And the real reason why every incumbent automaker on Earth should be shitting themselves right now is because Tesla is successfully building the same emotional mystique around their brand without actually spending a dime on advertising.

Oh please, once the big manufacturers like BMW, Benz and Audi make a proper electric car the Tesla will be forgotten.

 

[Pinewood]

Oh please, once the big manufacturers like BMW, Benz and Audi make a proper electric car the Tesla will be forgotten.

Once the big manufacturers come out with a proper electric car Tesla will have had another 5 years as the sole luxury electric car brand on the market.

 

[Futaba]

And the real reason why every incumbent automaker on Earth should be shitting themselves right now is because Tesla is successfully building the same emotional mystique around their brand without actually spending a dime on advertising.

Perhaps I just like burning dinosaurs because not a single tesla vehicle has interested me in the slightest, it could do 0-200 in 2 seconds or have a battery that lasts a year and I still wouldn't have any interest in it.

Combustion engines have a soul, electric cars do not.

 

[SliChillax]

Once the big manufacturers come out with a proper electric car Tesla will have had another 5 years as the sole luxury electric car brand on the market.

Luxury? Have you ever sat in a Tesla? Cheap materials, bad build quality and trim that doesn't line up properly. Road noise is also really bad in the highway, it's nowhere near what a 5 series, A6 or E class were 10 years ago, let alone now. The word luxury shouldn't be thrown around so easily just because a product is expensive.

Perhaps I just like burning dinosaurs because not a single tesla vehicle has interested me in the slightest, it could do 0-200 in 2 seconds or have a battery that lasts a year and I still wouldn't have any interest in it.

Combustion engines have a soul, electric cars do not.

I also agree. The only electric car I would consider buying is a city car like the BMW i3 or Chevy Bolt and that is only after I have a garage filled with petrol engines.

 

[matmanx1]

I don't quite get BMWs. I hear a ton of horror stories about them being unreliable and owners always having to spend time and money in the workshop, more than any other brand really. And yet they are still so sought after.

In BMW's defense they make a good looking vehicle and they have stuck to their guns when it comes to mainly making rear wheel drive vehicles with a near 50/50 weight distribution, even in the most humble 3 series. My dad started looking at the F30 328i because of their reputation for making "driver's cars" and was pretty much sold on it after one test drive. He and my mom are retired and have put nearly 40,000 miles in two years driving all over the place and average over 30 miles to the gallon (30.7 at last glance) doing it. Their car has a lot of upside (nicely appointed, comfortable, reasonably quiet, handles well, fast) and so far has had only one minor issue which was covered under warranty (rear brake light malfunction).

Perhaps I just like burning dinosaurs because not a single tesla vehicle has interested me in the slightest, it could do 0-200 in 2 seconds or have a battery that lasts a year and I still wouldn't have any interest in it.

Combustion engines have a soul, electric cars do not.

Electric definitely has a place. I think cars like the 918 Spyder are a great way to use electric propulsion to both maximize performance and economy at the same time. I would have no problem putting an electric car in my driveway (especially for use by my wife, who is not a car person) once the prices come down and the range goes up.

 

[jongkookie]

Finally heard a Shelby GT350 IRL today and my god that thing sounds fucking amazing!

I couldn't help but laugh my ass off when it drove past me on the streets.

 

[Futaba]

Electric definitely has a place. I think cars like the 918 Spyder are a great way to use electric propulsion to both maximize performance and economy at the same time. I would have no problem putting an electric car in my driveway (especially for use by my wife, who is not a car person) once the prices come down and the range goes up.

It has a place, for sure, I just think it's a completely different basis of appeal.
The best way I can describe it is to take a high end digital watch, then a high end mechanical watch, in many ways the digital watch is better (less maintenance, holds the time more reliably, etc), but it cant offer the same enjoyment as the mechanical watch, the view of and sound of the tiny gears and springs doing their job, producing a feint but telltale tick, it just has a much more tactile and earthly feel to it.

It's the same way for engines, a good driver can communicate with their vehicles engine, reading the tone, pitch, vibration and temperatures to know, at all times, how the engine is doing, if it's laboring and would benefit from a lower gear or if it's stretching it's legs and would be happier with a little more gas, in addition to that, braking system and traction control aren't entirely overbearing, giving you feedback from all four wheels at any given time.

That communication with the driver at all times is what gives combustion engine vehicles their soul, it's a constant conversation.

For electric vehicles, such as the tesla, a huge portion of that conversation is lost, and instead of communicating with you directly, it instead gets displayed in a much more dumbed down form on the vehicles dash display, taking away much of the positive control and feeling from driving, and when you start adding on features like autopilot, what you've essentially done is written off driver interaction completely and bought a private taxi.

Hybrid vehicles are somewhere in between with many leaning towards full-electric approaches towards driver interaction, and that's a damn shame because if we ever reach a future where everyone drives full electric vehicles, the art of driving will be lost, replaced with what amounts to little more than knowing what buttons to press on the UI.

I would never begrudge someone their love for an electric vehicle mind you, I just don't think manufacturers releasing combustion engine vehicles have much to worry about any time soon, because I would wager i'm not unique in my love for them.

 

[Pinewood]

Luxury? Have you ever sat in a Tesla? Cheap materials, bad build quality and trim that doesn't line up properly. Road noise is also really bad in the highway, it's nowhere near what a 5 series, A6 or E class were 10 years ago, let alone now. The word luxury shouldn't be thrown around so easily just because a product is expensive.

Obviously the people who spend 80 grand on a Model S feel differently.

 

[SliChillax]

Obviously the people who spend 80 grand on a Model S feel differently.

Well good for them for having such low standards. I guess my M235i is the best handling car in the world because that's how I feel about it, doesn't make it true though.

 

[Cake Boss]

so a $40K+ Civic in Canada? ayyy lmao.

 

[matmanx1]

It has a place, for sure, I just think it's a completely different basis of appeal.
The best way I can describe it is to take a high end digital watch, then a high end mechanical watch, in many ways the digital watch is better (less maintenance, holds the time more reliably, etc), but it cant offer the same enjoyment as the mechanical watch, the view of and sound of the tiny gears and springs doing their job, producing a feint but telltale tick, it just has a much more tactile and earthly feel to it.

It's the same way for engines, a good driver can communicate with their vehicles engine, reading the tone, pitch, vibration and temperatures to know, at all times, how the engine is doing, if it's laboring and would benefit from a lower gear or if it's stretching it's legs and would be happier with a little more gas, in addition to that, braking system and traction control aren't entirely overbearing, giving you feedback from all four wheels at any given time.

That communication with the driver at all times is what gives combustion engine vehicles their soul, it's a constant conversation.

For electric vehicles, such as the tesla, a huge portion of that conversation is lost, and instead of communicating with you directly, it instead gets displayed in a much more dumbed down form on the vehicles dash display, taking away much of the positive control and feeling from driving, and when you start adding on features like autopilot, what you've essentially done is written off driver interaction completely and bought a private taxi.

Hybrid vehicles are somewhere in between with many leaning towards full-electric approaches towards driver interaction, and that's a damn shame because if we ever reach a future where everyone drives full electric vehicles, the art of driving will be lost, replaced with what amounts to little more than knowing what buttons to press on the UI.

I would never begrudge someone their love for an electric vehicle mind you, I just don't think manufacturers releasing combustion engine vehicles have much to worry about any time soon, because I would wager i'm not unique in my love for them.

I get you. And I mostly agree. I don't think I would ever want a car that drives for me and the sound of the engine and exhaust note are a huge part of what makes a sports car so appealing. But for most folks wanting basic, economical transportation (Tesla economical? lol!) an electric car has a lot of benefits. I guess I see both sides but still lean towards the combustion engine and the soul of the automobile as being of utmost importance to me and that's why I drive an MX-5 Miata on most days. Now that car has a great "soul"!

 

[Mazdaspeed]

I don't know much about direct injection. Is it easy enough to swap injectors or are they more bespoke than regular ones?

I can say that in the Mazdaspeed direct injection world we never found a company to make a different injector and we didnt have any luck with a swap from another car. Things may be different with other cars that have a larger user base/different design.

 

[Mattlikewhoa]

so a $40K+ Civic in Canada? ayyy lmao.

Canadian car market be expensive...

 

[Futaba]

I get you. And I mostly agree. I don't think I would ever want a car that drives for me and the sound of the engine and exhaust note are a huge part of what makes a sports car so appealing. But for most folks wanting basic, economical transportation (Tesla economical? lol!) an electric car has a lot of benefits. I guess I see both sides but still lean towards the combustion engine and the soul of the automobile as being of utmost importance to me and that's why I drive an MX-5 Miata on most days. Now that car has a great "soul"!

It does indeed!, but I find most cars generally do, once you've driven it long enough to familiarize yourself with it's quirkyness and various tones.

And the obvious benefit for a proper stick shift

 

[SummitAve]

I think much of the conversation happening between the driver and a combustion engine has already been lost with the digitization of the internal combustion engine, and cars in general. In that regard, I don't the the mechanical watch vs. digital one is a fair analogy for modern cars. I think the drivetrain is responsible for most of the convo that is left, and I don't think it's impossible for an electric powered car to have an interesting engaging drivetrain. The focus just isn't there yet.

Everything else aside, I just find the technology of electric, and especially hybrids to be really cool. It provides a new framework for all sorts of fun new design and engineering problems/solutions.

In regards to Tesla, even the best most optimistic has them being shrimped by the major players. I don't think they will cease to exist, but once the top makers get serious about electric cars it's going to take a flip of the switch to push Tesla into an even smaller corner. I just don't see a path where they're able to turn their sliver of a pie into a legitimate slice.

 

[Crayon]

I can say that in the Mazdaspeed direct injection world we never found a company to make a different injector and we didnt have any luck with a swap from another car. Things may be different with other cars that have a larger user base/different design.

Interesting. Thank you for the data point.

 

[Shortt Sirket]

It has a precision 5862. I didnt realize or forgot you're in Indy, im only like an hour away in Lafayette. Small world!

You should come down for the Circle City Mazda Meetups sometime. You can join the group on Facebook for more info.

 

[Futaba]

I think much of the conversation happening between the driver and a combustion engine has already been lost with the digitization of the internal combustion engine, and cars in general. In that regard, I don't the the mechanical watch vs. digital one is a fair analogy for modern cars. I think the drivetrain is responsible for most of the convo that is left, and I don't think it's impossible for an electric powered car to have an interesting engaging drivetrain.

even with a fly by wire accelerator and break, an MT combustion engined car still gives you significantly more direct feedback than an electric can, the MT part is rather important too as it adds an additional later of communication, rather than an automatic box selecting gear based on sensors and mappings , or automatically switching at the pull of a paddle, youre still manually engaging and disengaging the clutch and controlling the flow of power, and every single part of that action gives direct feedback, whether you are rev matched, if youre mating the plates too harshly, whether the torque is too much and the clutch plate is slipping, and all of that feedback from clutch use alone.

The majority of cars still use direct brakes too which can convey plenty of information such as wheel traction, road surface roughness, brake fade from overheating pads/rotors, warp in rotors or less common issues such as suspension issues, hub bearings or ball joints.

even with a laggy fly by wire accelerator on a coil pack based ignition system with throttle response actively adjusted in realtime on the ecu, you still get direct feedback from the engine on your input, in many ways.

while an accelerator connected to a throttle body by a physical cable offers much more precise and true interaction, to say a fly by wire system removes much of the conversation between driver and car does not seem accurate at all.

 

[m_shortpants]

Well good for them for having such low standards. I guess my M235i is the best handling car in the world because that's how I feel about it, doesn't make it true though.

People aren't buying Teslas as a luxury car though. They're buying it for technology. My father in law is like this. He has a E36 M3 and a 911 Turbo. The Tesla is his daily and he acknowledges the quality is garbage but as a practical car it really is great.

 

[SummitAve]

Futaba, I was speaking more to the engine specifically, and the move from carbs to fuel injection. I do think much of the conversation was lost there. You brought up a lot of feedback loops between car and driver (steering, sound, accelerator, brakes, suspension) that I do not believe are unique to combustion powered cars. They may not exist in the form that you want them in current electric cars, but I see no reason why they couldn't.

 

[SliChillax]

People aren't buying Teslas as a luxury car though. They're buying it for technology. My father in law is like this. He has a E36 M3 and a 911 Turbo. The Tesla is his daily and he acknowledges the quality is garbage but as a practical car it really is great.

I agree with that, that's why I was saying that the Tesla is no luxury car.

 

[tryptobphan]

I agree with that, that's why I was saying that the Tesla is no luxury car.

I think it should be considered a luxury car. It's not as comfortable as the other cars known for luxury feel and materials like the interiors found in Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc. but it is definitely luxurious as an overall vehicle.

It makes you, well at least me, feel special sitting inside of it as well due to the technology and the advance features that no other cars have yet (i.e. autopilot, giant touch pad, digital instrument clusters, etc.). It's like sitting in the car of tomorrow. Even I considered getting a Model S over a year ago. I went with another vehicle, but I think the Tesla Model S is an amazing machine worthy of a lot of praise.

 

[shinshoryuken]

I think it should be considered a luxury car. It's not as comfortable as the other cars known for luxury feel and materials like the interiors found in Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc. but it is definitely luxurious as an overall vehicle.

It makes you, well at least me, feel special sitting inside of it as well due to the technology and the advance features that no other cars have yet (i.e. autopilot, giant touch pad, digital instrument clusters, etc.). It's like sitting in the car of tomorrow. Even I considered getting a Model S over a year ago. I went with another vehicle, but I think the Tesla Model S is an amazing machine worthy of a lot of praise.

Feel special like vegans and people who do crossfit??

 

[Camp1nCarl]

CarGAF, I need some advice. I randomly decided to check Craigslist and found a deal that certainly seems too good to be true. It's a BMW 5 series in good looking shape, and about $8000 less than what market value appears to be. I sent an inquiry and received a text asking for an email to send me more details and pictures. I asked why it was so lowly priced, why it was being sold and if there was any mechanical or electrical issues? Needless to say a lady just responded stating it had no issues, no accidents and was kept by her husband who passed away from a heart attack 2 months ago. She says she is moving back home and wants to get rid of the vehicle and any associated memories. She also states she has the clean title and can answer any more questions or meet if I would be further interested.

Any advice on how I should proceed? Money isn't an issue, but I don't have a mechanic or anyone incredibly mechanically inclined here either (I just moved here kind of recently). The pics show no plates on it and overall it just seems too good to be true. However I don't necessarily want to miss out on an opportunity like this. I don't think it would be an issue meeting or then eventually signing any documents at a bank after if it came to it, but I just wanted some advice before I proceed. Thanks!

 

[nabe_shogun]

CarGAF, I need some advice. I randomly decided to check Craigslist and found a deal that certainly seems too good to be true. It's a BMW 5 series in good looking shape, and about $8000 less than what market value appears to be. I sent an inquiry and received a text asking for an email to send me more details and pictures. I asked why it was so lowly priced, why it was being sold and if there was any mechanical or electrical issues? Needless to say a lady just responded stating it had no issues, no accidents and was kept by her husband who passed away from a heart attack 2 months ago. She says she is moving back home and wants to get rid of the vehicle and any associated memories. She also states she has the clean title and can answer any more questions or meet if I would be further interested.

Any advice on how I should proceed? Money isn't an issue, but I don't have a mechanic or anyone incredibly mechanically inclined here either (I just moved here kind of recently). The pics show no plates on it and overall it just seems too good to be true. However I don't necessarily want to miss out on an opportunity like this. I don't think it would be an issue meeting or then eventually signing any documents at a bank after if it came to it, but I just wanted some advice before I proceed. Thanks!

Well, it certainly is a gamble. Sometimes these pay off, sometimes they don't. I had a friend score a 996 911 for $12k in a similar situation. Though then again you are dealing with craigslist.

If you don't know anything about working on cars, and if this is going to be your only car, I'd probably pass.

 

[Camp1nCarl]

Well, it certainly is a gamble. Sometimes these pay off, sometimes they don't. I had a friend score a 996 911 for $12k in a similar situation. Though then again you are dealing with craigslist.

If you don't know anything about working on cars, and if this is going to be your only car, I'd probably pass.

I mean I think I know enough to get by lol. Things like brakes, power steering, all of the general maintenance things like changing your own oil, replacing coolant surge tank, etc. But I'm not super well versed on all of the nuisances and what to specifically look for when buying used was my point more so. It wouldn't be my only car.

I'm thinking of asking for the VIN and potentially meeting up. I don't know how to check if it's potentially stolen though which concerns me (She sounded as if she wanted to sell it soon, but she did say she was moving). I guess I'll see how this pans out, but it doesn't help I'm going out of town for two weeks come Sunday so I need to decide sooner rather than later unfortunately haha

 

[whatsinaname]

CarGAF, I need some advice. I randomly decided to check Craigslist and found a deal that certainly seems too good to be true. It's a BMW 5 series in good looking shape, and about $8000 less than what market value appears to be. I sent an inquiry and received a text asking for an email to send me more details and pictures. I asked why it was so lowly priced, why it was being sold and if there was any mechanical or electrical issues? Needless to say a lady just responded stating it had no issues, no accidents and was kept by her husband who passed away from a heart attack 2 months ago. She says she is moving back home and wants to get rid of the vehicle and any associated memories. She also states she has the clean title and can answer any more questions or meet if I would be further interested.

Any advice on how I should proceed? Money isn't an issue, but I don't have a mechanic or anyone incredibly mechanically inclined here either (I just moved here kind of recently). The pics show no plates on it and overall it just seems too good to be true. However I don't necessarily want to miss out on an opportunity like this. I don't think it would be an issue meeting or then eventually signing any documents at a bank after if it came to it, but I just wanted some advice before I proceed. Thanks!

This is sounding a little dodgy, I have a feeling her next mail might be about an online payment for the car.

Ask for the VIN first and run a carfax and see if the details check out.

 

[SliChillax]

I think it should be considered a luxury car. It's not as comfortable as the other cars known for luxury feel and materials like the interiors found in Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc. but it is definitely luxurious as an overall vehicle.

It makes you, well at least me, feel special sitting inside of it as well due to the technology and the advance features that no other cars have yet (i.e. autopilot, giant touch pad, digital instrument clusters, etc.). It's like sitting in the car of tomorrow. Even I considered getting a Model S over a year ago. I went with another vehicle, but I think the Tesla Model S is an amazing machine worthy of a lot of praise.

I highly disagree considering tech gizmos as luxury but to each his own. And I've never seen anything uglier than a giant vertical screen in the middle of the dashboard, it's not even integrated in a beautiful way, it's just slapped in there. The Lucid Air, even though a concept, is what the Tesla should be in order to be considered a luxurious car. A bunch of cameras and giant screen don't make something luxurious.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Oh please, once the big manufacturers like BMW, Benz and Audi make a proper electric car the Tesla will be forgotten.

When I read a post like this all I can think of is Steve Ballmer laughing at the iPhone.

Tesla is Apple. BMW, Mercedes, and Audi are Microsoft, RIM/BlackBerry, and Palm.

I agree with that, that's why I was saying that the Tesla is no luxury car.

Tesla agrees with you too, which is why if you actually go to their website and look at all their material, their cars are referred to as 'premium' vehicles, not 'luxury' vehicles. Tesla isn't trying to match the big ostentatious German land yachts. Tesla isn't about that. The purpose of Tesla is "accelerating sustainable transport", not "making a competitor to the Mercedes S-class".

 

[SliChillax]

When I read a post like this all I can think of is Steve Ballmer laughing at the iPhone.

Tesla is Apple. BMW, Mercedes, and Audi are Microsoft, RIM/BlackBerry, and Palm.



Tesla agrees with you too, which is why if you actually go to their website and look at all their material, their cars are referred to as 'premium' vehicles, not 'luxury' vehicles. Tesla isn't trying to match the big ostentatious German land yachts. Tesla isn't about that. The purpose of Tesla is "accelerating sustainable transport", not "making a competitor to the Mercedes S-class".

Because BMW, Audi and Benz dont half ass their products. Tesla is innovating but their cars are rushed, flawed and very unreliable. The Germans are not playing catch up, they're waiting for the right moment to launch a proper electric car. The whole electric car market is not advanced enough to take over the combustion engine, batteries take too long to charge and the range is average, weight is a big problem and the number of charging stations is incredibly low. I don't have to think twice about making a long road trip in my BMW, I do if I had a Tesla though. The rest of the world doesn't live in California don't forget that. I don't see how your comparison with Apple and Microsoft makes any sense. The Germans are just taking their time to make it right, Europe needs a complete overhaul in the way it functions to accommodate electric cars. There needs to be a proper infrastructure to support electric cars. You don't buy a 4K TV without any 4K content available for it. Even once the infrastructure is there, the technology will have to advance pretty faat in order for people not to have range anxiety.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Because BMW, Audi and Benz dont half ass their products. Tesla is innovating but their cars are rushed, flawed and very unreliable. The Germans are not playing catch up, they're waiting for the right moment to launch a proper electric car. The whole electric car market is not advanced enough to take over the combustion engine, batteries take too long to charge and the range is average, weight is a big problem and the number of charging stations is incredibly low. I don't have to think twice about making a long road trip in my BMW, I do if I had a Tesla though. The rest of the world doesn't live in California don't forget that. I don't see how your comparison with Apple and Microsoft makes any sense. The Germans are just taking their time to make it right, Europe needs a complete overhaul in the way it functions to accommodate electric cars. There needs to be a proper infrastructure to support electric cars. You don't buy a 4K TV without any 4K content available for it. Even once the infrastructure is there, the technology will have to advance pretty faat in order for people not to have range anxiety.

I've seen almost the exact same arguments you're trying to make repeatedly already. Nothing you are arguing is at all new. You can do research right now to understand how exactly every single thing you mentioned is in the process of being addressed. Since you are posting in Auto GAF and can be assumed to be a generally intelligent individual unlike most of the idiots on GAF, I will trust you to go and read up on how every single point you brought up has already been anticipated by Tesla.

It's funny that you're acting like the Germans are 'waiting for the right moment' when in reality they are actually rushing and very serious about the fact that the moment for electric cars is now and they are falling behind the curve already because of Tesla specifically.

BMW has been busy trying to motivate employees and they are taking Tesla very seriously, in addition to other resurgent competitors like Mercedes.

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...ses-fear-factor-to-rally-staff-in-move-to-evs

VW Group is also being very serious about Tesla and electric cars now, as it turns out. Their CEO has specifically called Tesla out as a competitor they must surpass quickly.

https://www.ft.com/content/a43ac2ce-3198-11e7-9555-23ef563ecf9a

 

[jongkookie]

When I read a post like this all I can think of is Steve Ballmer laughing at the iPhone.

Holy fuck, I've never seen this before.

I wonder how much crow Ballmer has ate in the last 10 years with regards to the iPhone?

Oddly enough, I'd have probably joined him 10 years ago... I hated the iPhone and was a blind Android fanboy. Next thing you know, I got tired of all the modding, bootloaders, and other bullshit with Android that I got an iPhone 5 and I've never looked back... to the point that I'm now paying Apple a set amount every month just so I can upgrade when the next one comes lol.

 

[Futaba]

In his defense, he does at least say "Now, it may well sell very well"

 

[Camp1nCarl]

This is sounding a little dodgy, I have a feeling her next mail might be about an online payment for the car.

Ask for the VIN first and run a carfax and see if the details check out.

Yeah, I'm 99% sure it was sketchy. When I emailed her about the VIN she replied that she was out of state now, and was working through a "shipping company." So I'd pay through Ebay, and then I would have 5 days to "try it out." And "she" didn't even give me the VIN obviously lol. Alas, too good to be true. Thanks for some tips though GAF.

BTW, love creeping on this community OT. Keep up the awesome pics and interesting discussion

 

[shinshoryuken]

Wow..Unknown Soldier is brining his bias mentality to autogaf. Thats the same Unknown Soldier that i know from the Android thread.

Are you still a nexussumsungverizonnvidia fanboy?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Wow..Unknown Soldier is brining his bias mentality to autogaf. Thats the same Unknown Soldier that i know from the Android thread.

Are you still a nexussumsungverizonnvidia fanboy?

<3

I never saw that response you posted to me in that Model S thread until I was re-reading it yesterday. You saw what I did there. Good thing no one else did.

 

[shinshoryuken]

<3

I never saw that response you posted to me in that Model S thread until I was re-reading it yesterday. You saw what I did there. Good thing no one else did.

Just messing with you bro, cause we go way back. *fist bump*

 

[Pinewood]

Holy fuck, I've never seen this before.

I wonder how much crow Ballmer has ate in the last 10 years with regards to the iPhone?

Oddly enough, I'd have probably joined him 10 years ago... I hated the iPhone and was a blind Android fanboy. Next thing you know, I got tired of all the modding, bootloaders, and other bullshit with Android that I got an iPhone 5 and I've never looked back... to the point that I'm now paying Apple a set amount every month just so I can upgrade when the next one comes lol.

Inb4 a Tesla model 4 convertible will be the next "Miata" in 10 years

 

[SliChillax]

I've seen almost the exact same arguments you're trying to make repeatedly already. Nothing you are arguing is at all new. You can do research right now to understand how exactly every single thing you mentioned is in the process of being addressed. Since you are posting in Auto GAF and can be assumed to be a generally intelligent individual unlike most of the idiots on GAF, I will trust you to go and read up on how every single point you brought up has already been anticipated by Tesla.

It's funny that you're acting like the Germans are 'waiting for the right moment' when in reality they are actually rushing and very serious about the fact that the moment for electric cars is now and they are falling behind the curve already because of Tesla specifically.

BMW has been busy trying to motivate employees and they are taking Tesla very seriously, in addition to other resurgent competitors like Mercedes.

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...ses-fear-factor-to-rally-staff-in-move-to-evs

VW Group is also being very serious about Tesla and electric cars now, as it turns out. Their CEO has specifically called Tesla out as a competitor they must surpass quickly.

https://www.ft.com/content/a43ac2ce-3198-11e7-9555-23ef563ecf9a

Notice how you said "in the process of being addressed", and I never said Tesla hasn't anticipated the usual problems. Tesla is an amazing smart company but my only argument has been that their cars, for the price that they ask, should have better build quality because someone here was calling it a "luxury car" which I highly disagree. I also don't believe that the Germans are rushing anything, seeing how I've been in the automotive design industry for the past 3 years, although just as a student, I've known lot's of people involved in electric car projects for Land Rover, Jaguar, BMW and those people have told me what I'm telling you. There is no reason to rush a product when the infrastructure isn't there yet, in Europe especially. I'm not shitting on Tesla, I admire how far they've come from nothing, it's just that I would never buy a Tesla due to the awful build quality and reliability problems but I do admire the brand for what it stands and what it has done.

 

[Pinewood]

Notice how you said "in the process of being addressed", and I never said Tesla hasn't anticipated the usual problems. Tesla is an amazing smart company but my only argument has been that their cars, for the price that they ask, should have better build quality because someone here was calling it a "luxury car" which I highly disagree. I also don't believe that the Germans are rushing anything, seeing how I've been in the automotive design industry for the past 3 years, although just as a student, I've known lot's of people involved in electric car projects for Land Rover, Jaguar, BMW and those people have told me what I'm telling you. There is no reason to rush a product when the infrastructure isn't there yet, in Europe especially. I'm not shitting on Tesla, I admire how far they've come from nothing, it's just that I would never buy a Tesla due to the awful build quality and reliability problems but I do admire the brand for what it stands and what it has done.

And the infrastructure isnt there in most countries because the market share is low because the cars you can choose from are crap. Which Model 3 might change, considering its popularity.

 

[SliChillax]

And the infrastructure isnt there in most countries because the market share is low because the cars you can choose from are crap. Which Model 3 might change, considering its popularity.

Which brings me to another question. Why wasn't the Model 3 the first car Tesla made? They choose to make an expensive sedan first whith mediocre build quality.

 

[m_shortpants]

Because BMW, Audi and Benz dont half ass their products. Tesla is innovating but their cars are rushed, flawed and very unreliable. The Germans are not playing catch up, they're waiting for the right moment to launch a proper electric car. The whole electric car market is not advanced enough to take over the combustion engine, batteries take too long to charge and the range is average, weight is a big problem and the number of charging stations is incredibly low. I don't have to think twice about making a long road trip in my BMW, I do if I had a Tesla though. The rest of the world doesn't live in California don't forget that. I don't see how your comparison with Apple and Microsoft makes any sense. The Germans are just taking their time to make it right, Europe needs a complete overhaul in the way it functions to accommodate electric cars. There needs to be a proper infrastructure to support electric cars. You don't buy a 4K TV without any 4K content available for it. Even once the infrastructure is there, the technology will have to advance pretty faat in order for people not to have range anxiety.

I wouldn't necessarily say the cars are unreliable. Most of the quality problems have to do with fit and finish, panels not being properly aligned, bum door handles, etc.

As far as power train is concerned, because it's so simple there really isn't much to it. And range isn't so bad at 300+ miles. I mean obviously if you're doing more than 300 miles in 1-2 days it's probably not the car for you. For everyone else that range gets the job done.

Which brings me to another question. Why wasn't the Model 3 the first car Tesla made? They choose to make an expensive sedan first whith mediocre build quality

It's classic business. Build a "premium" more expensive model out first and make it cheaper once the price of technology goes down over time. That's why Tesla built the biggest lithium ion battery factory in the world to enable Model 3 production. Apple did the same thing with the original iPhone.

Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't want to be in the first batch of Model 3 orders, that's for damn sure. But I'd attribute that to Tesla being a young company. I hope they've learned and that it has less production issues. For what it's worth though, their service is at least very good when it comes to replacing/fixing problems

 

[DoomGyver]

Exhaust advice? I have a ford ranger with the 4.0 sohc v6 and I'm going to put a bola pro xs muffler on it - single exhaust. Now the stock piping is 2" from each manifold, to a 2.25" Y-pipe, down to a 2" pipe into the muffler, and finally 2.25" for the tailpipe.

Fords HP/TQ numbers are 207HP and 238TQ 245cci

Anyways, I'm thinking of going 2.5" from right behind the Y-pipe all the way back. Will 2.5" pipe be too large? or should I go with 2.25"? All of the cat-back exhausts from Magnaflow/Gibson/and others have 2.5" pipe. I don't want to lose any of my bottom end torque but I also don't want to leave any power on the table. It's all going to be done in 300 series stainless so it won't rot out.

From exhaust pipe charts and online calculators a single 2.25" exhaust is good for up to 200HP, and 2.5" is good from 200-300. I even read about fluid dynamics and exhaust flow, scavenging and so on. I'm leaning towards the 2.5" pipe.

 

[Bandit1]

Which brings me to another question. Why wasn't the Model 3 the first car Tesla made? They choose to make an expensive sedan first whith mediocre build quality.

I think it was probably mostly out of necessity that the roadster and the Model S came first. With the roadster they were able to use another car as their base and focus on the drivetrain, which is Tesla's main selling point. Once they got things figured out they build an all new "premium" vehicle, where they can charge a premium price, because I'm sure there is a lot of cost involved in getting these cars designed and built. Then after they have things nailed down and have streamlined the process, they're able to bring costs down and build a more affordable, higher production volume car. It's kind of like when the HD TV first came out it was $1,000 but now they're like $200. =P

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Exhaust advice? I have a ford ranger with the 4.0 sohc v6 and I'm going to put a bola pro xs muffler on it - single exhaust. Now the stock piping is 2" from each manifold, to a 2.25" Y-pipe, down to a 2" pipe into the muffler, and finally 2.25" for the tailpipe.

Fords HP/TQ numbers are 207HP and 238TQ 245cci

Anyways, I'm thinking of going 2.5" from right behind the Y-pipe all the way back. Will 2.5" pipe be too large? or should I go with 2.25"? All of the cat-back exhausts from Magnaflow/Gibson/and others have 2.5" pipe. I don't want to lose any of my bottom end torque but I also don't want to leave any power on the table. It's all going to be done in 300 series stainless so it won't rot out.

From exhaust pipe charts and online calculators a single 2.25" exhaust is good for up to 200HP, and 2.5" is good from 200-300. I even read about fluid dynamics and exhaust flow, scavenging and so on. I'm leaning towards the 2.5" pipe.

$10 says 80% of your power losses are through the header and catalytic converter, and changing your muffler and catback won't make any real difference. I wouldn't worry about the 2.25" vs 2.5". Likely the 2.25" will be fine at the high end and better for low end torque.

 

[jongkookie]

My contact at the Honda dealer just told me something interesting.

Apparently Honda is being stingy as fuck with the Si that you can only test drive it once they've seen your credit and determined that your credit is good enough to buy it.

Basically even if you have money but your credit sucks, you can't even test drive that thing.

I've never heard of this before so I'm like wtf... I was gonna drop by there today but I still have other cars to look so I'll hold off on it.