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[Kadayi]

Haha, wow that is a lot of passive aggressiveness.

Please if I'm calling you out. There's nothing passive about it.

I am however, a fan of the Avengers and was pretty surprised that a lot of people didn't like it.

It's not a bad film, but it feels uneven and lacks the tight cohesion of Infinity War. They could have done with less time spent at the front end and more time at the back.

I just wanted to join in on the conversation, I didn't realize I had to be a well known name to have my opinion respected or acknowledged here

By deploying whataboutisms? Versus reasoned arguments?

Superhero fatigue was gonna kick in. Brie Larson were gonna destroy the MCU. Representation and diversity were suppose to end the MCU.

Pretty sure no one was predicting Endgame was going to bomb being the conclusion of Infinity War. I'd expect it to exceed IWs box Office tbh. I think people have concerns about the MCU moving forward into Phase 4 given the remaining roster. GotG3 will do fine, because they're well established and the team up with Thor makes a lot of sense, but whose left to helm the Avengers? Captain Marvels too OP for earth-bound conflicts. There's no Black Widow. So you've, War Machine, Black Panther, New Captain America, Scarlet Witch, (presumably) Winter Soldier & Ant-Man, only two of whom have their own movies at this juncture. There's not a lot of glue there.

So I was thinking more about the film and...

I posted earlier about the Grandfather Paradox and how the Avengers were essentially in a way trying to avoid that. Then I realised that fucking Thanos (and by extension Gamora and Nebula) basically fulfilled that paradox, only in reverse. He time travelled from the past into the future and got himself killed meaning he's not going to be around to collect all the Infinity Stones and kill the Asgardians, Gamora and you know, half the universe (therefore meaning the Avengers won't have to do the fetch quest thing blah blah).

It's a little funny, for all the shit the Russo brothers were giving the other movies they ultimately gone and went ahead and did the exact same thing. To their credit they did open up the possibility of a multiverse theory...

Which would mean the Avengers not only restored their Universe but saved another from ever experiencing Thanos. I really wonder if Guardians 3 is going to be about this because they're the ones going to be most affected by Endgame (no Gamora to join the Guardians since she's in another universe).

It's a Multiverse. They didn't undo their own timeline., they just fucked up another one.

I'll be honest that whole 5 years thing seems like a terrible idea. The driver behind it was that Tony was unwilling to sacrifice the daughter he and Pepper had brought into the world since Infinity war, but think about it from everyone else's perspective. By insisting that they brought the vanished back into the present versus fixing the past he basically robbed all the vanished of those 5 years of time with those who remained. It was a complete dick move tbh.

 

[kiiltz]

They didn't undo their own timeline., they just fucked up another one.

Yeah that's what I mean. If Guardians 3 ultimately became about returning the current Gamora to her timeline/reality/universe I'd think that'd pretty interesting. And they didn't really fuck anything up except maybe letting Loki escape with the Tesseract.

 

[fantomena]

Pretty sure no one was predicting Endgame was going to bomb being the conclusion of Infinity War. I'd expect it to exceed IWs box Office tbh. I think people have concerns about the MCU moving forward into Phase 4 given the remaining roster. GotG3 will do fine, because they're well established and the team up with Thor makes a lot of sense, but whose left to helm the Avengers? Captain Marvels too OP for earth-bound conflicts. There's no Black Widow. So you've, War Machine, Black Panther, New Captain America, Scarlet Witch, (presumably) Winter Soldier & Ant-Man, only two of whom have their own movies at this juncture. There's not a lot of glue there.

Kevin Feige managed to make the Guardians of the Galaxy, a bunch of unknown b and c tier superheores to a mega success.

The ones you listed will do great under Feiges watch.

 

[Kadayi]

Yeah that's what I mean. If Guardians 3 ultimately became about returning the current Gamora to her timeline/reality/universe I'd think that'd pretty interesting. And they didn't really fuck anything up except maybe letting Loki escape with the Tesseract.

Well based off the end of GoTG2 they hinted at the appearance of Adam Warlock, who at least in the books wielded the Soul Stone, but hard to say how that will come to pass.

James Gunn managed to make the Guardians of the Galaxy, a bunch of unknown b and c tier superheroes to a mega success.

Corrected for accuracy

 

[Raikugen]

Please if I'm calling you out. There's nothing passive about it.



It's not a bad film, but it feels uneven and lacks the tight cohesion of Infinity War. They could have done with less time spent at the front end and more time at the back.



By deploying whataboutisms? Versus reasoned arguments?



Pretty sure no one was predicting Endgame was going to bomb being the conclusion of Infinity War. I'd expect it to exceed IWs box Office tbh. I think people have concerns about the MCU moving forward into Phase 4 given the remaining roster. GotG3 will do fine, because they're well established and the team up with Thor makes a lot of sense, but whose left to helm the Avengers? Captain Marvels too OP for earth-bound conflicts. There's no Black Widow. So you've, War Machine, Black Panther, New Captain America, Scarlet Witch,(presumably) Winter Soldier & Ant Man, only two of whom have their own movies at this juncture.



It's a Multiverse. They didn't undo their own timeline., they just fucked up another one.

I'll be honest that whole 5 years thing seems like a terrible idea. The driver behind it was that Tony was unwilling to sacrifice the daughter he and Pepper had brought into the world since Infinity war, but think about it from everyone else's perspective. By insisting that they brought the vanished back into the present versus fixing the past he basically robbed all the vanished of those 5 years of time with those who remained. It was a complete dick move tbh.

Listen, I don't know what I did to you, but all I did was offer my perspective in an online forum and I kept it civil and on topic. I drew clear parallels between thor and captain marvel not to defend her, but to provide a counter argument to an issue people had about the movie.

 

[fantomena]

Corrected for accuracy

Not accurate. Kevin Feige has the overall vision, who to give the director job, what the main points of the story are and so on.

The Russos have also stated that Kevin Feige is the reason the MCU is what it is.

 

[Kadayi]

Listen, I don't know what I did to you, but all I did was offer my perspective in an online forum and I kept it civil and on topic. I drew clear parallels between thor and captain marvel not to defend her, but to provide a counter argument to an issue people had about the movie.

Now it's people? I thought it was the forum at large? Also, did capitalisation die a death or something? There's real inconstencies in the relative power levels of certain characters. This is known.

Not accurate. Kevin Feige has the overall vision, who to give the director job, what the main points of the story are and so on.

Feige may be heading up Marvel Studios but he doesn't even have a writing on the GoTG movies. Gunn wrote and directed the films ( IMDB ) Sure, Feige, has an overview in terms of the broader beats perhaps in order to get his ducks in order for Infinity War but you need to understand that his principal role is to corral things.

 

[SirKicksalot]

I tried to catch up with Marvel. Homecoming is OK, I guess. Black Panther is a waste of time.

I'm not going to bother with these anymore. The age of capeshit is over for me.

 

[trikster40]

Please if I'm calling you out. There's nothing passive about it.



It's not a bad film, but it feels uneven and lacks the tight cohesion of Infinity War. They could have done with less time spent at the front end and more time at the back.



By deploying whataboutisms? Versus reasoned arguments?



Pretty sure no one was predicting Endgame was going to bomb being the conclusion of Infinity War. I'd expect it to exceed IWs box Office tbh. I think people have concerns about the MCU moving forward into Phase 4 given the remaining roster. GotG3 will do fine, because they're well established and the team up with Thor makes a lot of sense, but whose left to helm the Avengers? Captain Marvels too OP for earth-bound conflicts. There's no Black Widow. So you've, War Machine, Black Panther, New Captain America, Scarlet Witch, (presumably) Winter Soldier & Ant-Man, only two of whom have their own movies at this juncture. There's not a lot of glue there.



It's a Multiverse. They didn't undo their own timeline., they just fucked up another one.

I'll be honest that whole 5 years thing seems like a terrible idea. The driver behind it was that Tony was unwilling to sacrifice the daughter he and Pepper had brought into the world since Infinity war, but think about it from everyone else's perspective. By insisting that they brought the vanished back into the present versus fixing the past he basically robbed all the vanished of those 5 years of time with those who remained. It was a complete dick move tbh.

They were trying to prevent Thanos from being able to get the Stones again. By fixing the present and sending the stones back to the past, things would be fine. They had no idea Thanos would travel to the future.

 

[Kadayi]

They were trying to prevent Thanos from being able to get the Stones again. By fixing the present and sending the stones back to the past, things would be fine. They had no idea Thanos would travel to the future.

That's not actually addressing what I wrote, did you mean to quote someone else?

 

[Dazrael]

Yeah that's what I mean. If Guardians 3 ultimately became about returning the current Gamora to her timeline/reality/universe I'd think that'd pretty interesting. And they didn't really fuck anything up except maybe letting Loki escape with the Tesseract.

Loki didn't escape with the Tesseract, at least it didn't come to pass when Cap returned the stones. At that scene enabled was for Stark and Cap to go and pick up the Tesseract at an earlier point in time, allow them to pick up extra Pym particles to make the additional trip to return the stones (which was only revealed when Banner went to see The Ancient One) and for them to emotionally bond with lost loved ones. Loki escape was just a vehicle to enable this to happen, it was all neatly negated when Cap returned the stones.

Also I think everybody got what they wanted (with the exceptional of characters who died outside of the original snap) Thanos got what he wanted because when Thor killed him he went to the grave knowing that he had won. And the Avengers got what they wanted when they brought everyone back. Everyone is a winner!

 

[Mihos]

Loki didn't escape with the Tesseract, at least it didn't come to pass when Cap returned the stones. At that scene enabled was for Stark and Cap to go and pick up the Tesseract at an earlier point in time, allow them to pick up extra Pym particles to make the additional trip to return the stones (which was only revealed when Banner went to see The Ancient One) and for them to emotionally bond with lost loved ones. Loki escape was just a vehicle to enable this to happen, it was all neatly negated when Cap returned the stones.

Also I think everybody got what they wanted (with the exceptional of characters who died outside of the original snap) Thanos got what he wanted because when Thor killed him he went to the grave knowing that he had won. And the Avengers got what they wanted when they brought everyone back. Everyone is a winner!

He would need to return it to the 1970, if he took it to 2012, there would be 2 space stones. Loki did escape with the space stone.... I am sure we will see more on that in Loki's Disney plus series.
Also, they didn't need the Pymm partials from the past to return the stones at the end, just for the extra jump.... Mostly because when they succeeded Hank, Janet, and Hope are all back and can make more.


Also doesn't explain how cap would get stones to Morag, Vomir, and Asgard when they didn't even have long distance space travel in those times

 

[trikster40]

That's not actually addressing what I wrote, did you mean to quote someone else?

Lol I may have, I can’t remember.

 

[JimiNutz]

Has anyone seen this twice yet?

After my initial disappointment with the time travelling and slow pace of the movie at the start/middle, I decided that once was enough as I didn't think the movie would be that enjoyable to re-watch anytime soon.

Now people are asking me to go and see it with them and I'm considering maybe giving the movie another view. Any opinion on how it actually holds up on second viewing?

 

[bitbydeath]

I thought they were going to bring back Coulson from the past which would explain new Coulson in Agents of SHIELD. Unless they had and we just don’t know it yet...

 

[Dazrael]

He would need to return it to the 1970, if he took it to 2012, there would be 2 space stones. Loki did escape with the space stone.... I am sure we will see more on that in Loki's Disney plus series.
Also, they didn't need the Pymm partials from the past to return the stones at the end, just for the extra jump.... Mostly because when they succeeded Hank, Janet, and Hope are all back and can make more.


Also doesn't explain how cap would get stones to Morag, Vomir, and Asgard when they didn't even have long distance space travel in those times

Well yeah he would have returned it to 1970, he would only need to go back to 2012 to return the Scepter. I’m sure he took the extra Pym particles as insurance, it’s a small observation. Loki would still be dead as the timeline corrected itself when Cap returned the stones. Everything went back to how it was.

As for Cap returning the stones to space? Well that would be another story for another time.

 

[MetalAlien]

I get that you didn't like the movie, but thor had been through the ringer and they even touched on that during infinity war. I think it's different that they were willing to show that even someone that powerful could be haunted by his failures. As for hulk, I love world war hulk, but I felt like professor hulk was the best and most natural progression for him given how intelligent hulk was already becoming. Im also assuming you missed the part in the last 10 or so movies where captain America was sulking over never getting his dance. It wasn't perfect by any means, but it did a great job balancing the old and new imo.

Just seems awfully convenient that giving all these legacy characters a "proper" send off also fits so well with the feminist agenda the Disney wants to push.

 

[bitbydeath]

Well yeah he would have returned it to 1970, he would only need to go back to 2012 to return the Scepter. I’m sure he took the extra Pym particles as insurance, it’s a small observation. Loki would still be dead as the timeline corrected itself when Cap returned the stones. Everything went back to how it was.

As for Cap returning the stones to space? Well that would be another story for another time.

Loki is getting his own TV show though.
Sure they could set it in the past but I don’t think there’d be much point for it.

 

[Sp3eD]

So why did nebula not tell black widow and Hawkeye about the sacrifice for the soul stone. Pretty important detail there to forget...

 

[bitbydeath]

So why did nebula not tell black widow and Hawkeye about the sacrifice for the soul stone. Pretty important detail there to forget...

And why don’t they use pym particles to bring her back after they got the soul stone?
Grab her before she jumps since that’s already been accomplished.

 

[Sp3eD]

And why don’t they use pym particles to bring her back after they got the soul stone?
Grab her before she jumps since that’s already been accomplished.

So nitpicking even more about that scene, Black widow never used her pym partical. It’s still on her dead body....

But I guess that’s in the past.....

Time travel sucks

 

[GreatnessRD]

Captain America was worthy. Movie became an instant classic, lol

It was a cool movie in my opinion. I'd give it an 8.5/10. Just a slow burn that's all.

 

[longdi]

I have come to terms with Thanos power levels.
We all expected him to be the strongestest. But i say that is from physical strength. He is like Hulk x2 or somewhere.
Thats why Wanda using space magic can fuck him up, thats why he recruited Maw, to counter space magic.
We are also seeing 2014 Thanos, lower levels than IW Thanos i assume. But he still handily took on Fat Thor, IM and Cap. He even knifed Cap vibranium shield to bits.
He is probably fatigued when taking on CM. That said, it would be better if CM sold that head-butt like how she sold the first throw.
Another thing, is Wanda and CM were infused with gem powers, so that makes them OP. It is just that CM is portrayed as unlikeable, no growth, just smug ass. Other heroes got accidental powers, but we see their growth in MCU.
Another thing, i would prefer if the girl power moment were done as combi moves with the guy heroes, each taking turns inflicting KO blows. Instead of just lining for a lame photoshoot.

/power levels talk

 

[Dazrael]

Loki is getting his own TV show though.
Sure they could set it in the past but I don’t think there’d be much point for it.

If they do go there then they would have contradicted the rules that were set up in Endgame. It wouldn’t surprise me though as they already contradicted the fact that anyone can hold an Infinity Stone as opposed to what the first GotG established.

 

[The Hermit]

So why did nebula not tell black widow and Hawkeye about the sacrifice for the soul stone. Pretty important detail there to forget...

I don't think she knew it was a sacrifice. In the first movie she though Thanos killed her once he got the Stone.

Has anyone seen this twice yet?

After my initial disappointment with the time travelling and slow pace of the movie at the start/middle, I decided that once was enough as I didn't think the movie would be that enjoyable to re-watch anytime soon.

Now people are asking me to go and see it with them and I'm considering maybe giving the movie another view. Any opinion on how it actually holds up on second viewing?

I have a bunch of friends asking me to go with them as well. I might do it next week.

The final fight is fun (besides the "girl power" ... but oh well). There are a ton of callback to previous movies, some of them I missed.

Also its a fun movie to watch with people. Think of it more as ride instead as a movie.

 

[Javthusiast]

So let me get this straight the only way they could figure out how to make Captain marvel the symbol of feminism and empowerment was to make extremely masculine and even give her a manly haircut

They just wanted to show her as she is in the current comics. Haircut, lesbian and boring personality and all that.

And why don’t they use pym particles to bring her back after they got the soul stone?
Grab her before she jumps since that’s already been accomplished.

And this right here is the reason why ALL TIMETRAVEL STORIES will never make any freaking sense.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

Also one scene I was thinking about that everyone is kinda glossing over since the surrounding events were so fantastic.

The moment of peace and success then suddenly BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM. Let's be real, most of those dudes shoulda died from that kinda fire power lol.

I was so scared Scott Lang had died there, as it was a call back to his presumed death in the comics.

 

[Queso de Grande]

I enjoyed it. I felt the pay off for these characters was good. The only part that did work for me was Captain Marvel scenes. Captain Marvel felt too powerful without earning it. I think if she would have been replaced with the Nova Corps it could have worked better with what foundation has been paid for the past 10 years.

 

[cryptoadam]

The more I think about it, the more the final battle didn't really make sense.

Why didn't Captain Marvel just put on the gauntlet and snap Thanos out of existence? Or Hulk? Or Thor? Why did they simply run around carrying it like a bunch of idiots? Yeah they wanted to send it back through the portal to the past, but wouldn't it be MUCH EASIER to just USE THE GAUNTLET?

Or how come 1000's of people showed up within minutes of being snapped back and Thanos attacking. How was Strange able to tell all these wizards to open portals and how come the Wakandians had an army ready to go? How did they know Thanos had his own army?

The end fight should of been Avengers vs Thanos and his LTDs, not some giant fight like we had in IW already. So many people got so little shine like the GOG who were just "there". We didn't need army vs army it should of just been the Hero's.

 

[iorek21]

So I was thinking more about the film and...

I posted earlier about the Grandfather Paradox and how the Avengers were essentially in a way trying to avoid that. Then I realised that fucking Thanos (and by extension Gamora and Nebula) basically fulfilled that paradox, only in reverse. He time travelled from the past into the future and got himself killed meaning he's not going to be around to collect all the Infinity Stones and kill the Asgardians, Gamora and you know, half the universe (therefore meaning the Avengers won't have to do the fetch quest thing blah blah).

It's a little funny, for all the shit the Russo brothers were giving the other movies they ultimately gone and went ahead and did the exact same thing. To their credit they did open up the possibility of a multiverse theory...

Which would mean the Avengers not only restored their Universe but saved another from ever experiencing Thanos. I really wonder if Guardians 3 is going to be about this because they're the ones going to be most affected by Endgame (no Gamora to join the Guardians since she's in another universe).

I believe that Cap returned to 2014 exactly before Quill was knocked out and put the Power Stone back at the temple (therefore still allowing 2014's Thanos to exist)

 

[iorek21]

Or how come 1000's of people showed up within minutes of being snapped back and Thanos attacking. How was Strange able to tell all these wizards to open portals and how come the Wakandians had an army ready to go? How did they know Thanos had his own army?

The end fight should of been Avengers vs Thanos and his LTDs, not some giant fight like we had in IW already. So many people got so little shine like the GOG who were just "there". We didn't need army vs army it should of just been the Hero's.

I think that Marvel is trying too hard to replicate LotR

 

[Kadayi]

That feeling when you are brought back from the dead, but find out its 5 years later, in between which your wife has remarried your best friend and they've had a kid

and it could all have been avoided if Tony Stark wasn't a selfish prick, who insisted on just bringing back the dead rather than fixing the past

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

That feeling when you are brought back from the dead, but find out its 5 years later, in between which your wife has remarried your best friend and they've had a kid

Imagine if you got snapped in the middle of a plane ride and you rematerialize 5 years later in the air. lol.

 

[cryptoadam]

I think that Marvel is trying too hard to replicate LotR

It worked really well in IW, but they should of gone a different direction this time. IW had the big Wakanda fight, it was done already. I think it would of been more impactful if all the dusted heros and the OG avengers fought against Thanos+his LTD's, rather than another giant alien army invastion that we have seen in a million super hero movies.

And also like I said it didn't make much sense how after people were just came back from being dusted that they would all want to go fight some giant war.

Unless they thought the fight with Thanos was still going on since for them being undusted was probably like 1 minute not 5 years???? Still doesn't explain all the other people though.

 

[longdi]

I guess SM FFH end credits will feature Loki appearing in the car after Tony/Cap and Antman jump back into time. All smirking and holding on to the cube. Setting up his miniseries return.

 

[trikster40]

Or how come 1000's of people showed up within minutes of being snapped back and Thanos attacking. How was Strange able to tell all these wizards to open portals and how come the Wakandians had an army ready to go? How did they know Thanos had his own army?

The end fight should of been Avengers vs Thanos and his LTDs, not some giant fight like we had in IW already. So many people got so little shine like the GOG who were just "there". We didn't need army vs army it should of just been the Hero's.

Strange saw the 1 outcome they would win. He’s know to get everyone prepared ASAP.

 

[Kadayi]

Imagine if you got snapped in the middle of a plane ride and you rematerialize 5 years later in the air. lol.

Hey, but Tony had a daughter now you see, if he undid the past who's going to eat all those Cheeseburgers now he's gone? I'm expecting Burger Kings ™ to do a 'For Tony' Tie-in shortly (or is that for shorty?).

 

[cryptoadam]

Strange saw the 1 outcome they would win. He’s know to get everyone prepared ASAP.

But wasn't he dusted in IW?

The time difference between un dusting and Thanos attacking was like 10 minutes.

Its a plot hole but you I guess you have to turn your brain off and just accept that 1000's of people were ready to go fight Thanos at the drop of a hat even though no one knew he was going to show up with an army.

They wanted the biggest fight scene ever so lets just get there.

 

[Nikana]

Haven't read the thread yet I will when k have time but I thought it was ok. Plot hole city though.

It felt like the wrote the entire thing based around

Spoiler

ironman dying

and NOT making it just a go back in time and kill the bad Guy story that it made it overly long. Didn't hate it, didnt love it.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Thought the movie was great.

 

[Raziel]

aside from the final battle, this movie is action-deficient.

 

[Jaxx_377]

I enjoyed the movie overall although I thought Infinity War was better, But the inclusion of the completely unlikable Captain Marvel was forced and unnecessary. She Provided no context to the overall story and detracted from other Characters that have been around longer and have a longer history as Avengers. If one female hero was gonna give Thanos the business it should have been Wanda, I think forcing in captain Marvel in kinda stole her thunder a bit.

Also I like What they did early on with the Hulk (remind me a little of hank McCoy/Beast) but when the shit hit the fan I would have like to see The Brute take over a bit (just to let us know he is still there when needed) and be the one to take down the Ship not Captain OP.

It would be cool to see the Harley Keener become a new Iron Man in time and team up with Spidey being around the same age make like a Young Avengers

 

[kunonabi]

aside from the final battle, this movie is action-deficient.

It's kind of hilarious that Hawkeye gets the only full action scene prior to the big end battle.

As for the "time travel", basically they wanted to have their cake and eat it too because they wanted the big battle post snap, Stark's daughter to live, and old man Cap whether it really made sense or not.

I'd much rather they have treated it more like sliders with original Thanos chasing them from reality to reality instead of having a big showdown with an earlier Thanos with all the context, character development and emotional weight removed.

In some ways it's not that different than TLJ where the script demanded certain things to happen and they didn't care how they got there or if it made sense.

 

[dorkimoe]

So how does it compare to Infinity War?

Infinity war is 10x better in my opinion.

Also that haircut and that feminist unite scene is awful.

 

[Kadayi]

Infinity war is 10x better in my opinion

I've since seen it, and if you've read my other posts in the thread, you'll realise I wasn't a fan. It has some moments, but there are some asinine aspects to the plot that undermines the whole experience upon reflection. Big on fan service less so on logic and reason, which given the starting point, was pretty disappointing.

 

[pramod]

Here's what I think:

Loki is alive. Gamora is alive. Black Widow is alive.
When Thanos destroyed all the stones, it also freed all the souls from the soul world. Guardians 3 will be about finding Gamora in a different body, or finding a new body for her soul. Same with Black Widow.
Loki fleeing with the Tesseract completely changed the timeline so he wasn't even in the events of Ragnarok and he was never killed by Thanos.

 

[Robot Carnival]

watched it yesterday and I feel that overall it's a good ending to the current MCU and it's closure for the 10+ years that lead to this movie. they gave the loyal fans a lot of fun stuff to watch and I love it. the whole Nebula share memory and Thanos travel to now with the whole freaking ship is a little bit of an asspull for me but whatever. I have no problem with the "girl team" representing and all but I do feel that Captain Marvel was, and in this movie, still is a huge tag on in terms of the story that don't have any real impact emotion wise. in any case, movie is a great watch and I'll go again for sure.

 

[Tesseract]

i was kidnapped by loki, someone save me

 

[daveonezero]

Thoughts when. I get on a computer.

Overall pretty hard movie to create and I think they pulled off a pretty monumental task.

 

[mcz117chief]

i was kidnapped by loki, someone save me