Batman Forever is not that bad

VulcanRaven

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They are releasing the Burton and Schumacher movies on 4K Blu-Ray next month. I hope we get the new transfers on normal Blu-Ray as well. The current releases are not very good. The quality is ok but it could be much better.
 
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Nester99

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I agree it’s not that bad. It’s biggest problem is that too many in that generation it was seen as as a sequel to Tim Burton’s Batman and the new style did not flow well.

On its own, I don’t mind the flick. But Val is not a great Batman, but miles better than Clooney
 

#Phonepunk#

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Least it was slightly better than Batman & Robin. SLIGHTLY BETTER
It was pretty silly but it didn’t have the Bat Credit Card and it also didn’t have Batman sliding down the back of a dinosaur like he is Fred Flintstone

When you consider all the dumb shit in BAR it makes BF look like a Nolan film
 
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cr0w

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Out of the first four Batman films, Forever is the only one that felt like a comic film that was able to embrace its roots without falling into pure camp the way B&R did. For anyone who says Forever is the reason we got B&R, you're flat out wrong. Returns is the reason we got B&R, because it was such a dark, bizarre film that resulted in a LOT of backlash from parents over its tone and violence that they over corrected and went in the complete opposite direction. Forever was actually a massive financial success, and B&R was dumbed down even farther because the movie was basically made by studio executives and toy companies at that point, and they placed more emphasis on merchandising than they did on the film itself.

The original cut of Forever was a much darker film, as evidenced by the scene with the giant bat where Bruce is remembering who he is after getting shot in the head by Harvey and waking up with amnesia, not remembering his life as Batman. There was an entire subplot cut out of the film that explored Bruce's trauma and his reasons for needing Batman, but it was cut because the studio felt the film was too dark in response to the Returns controversy. I wish we could have gotten a director's cut.

I'll also go to my grave arguing that Tommy Lee Jones played a better Joker than Nicholson did.

Here's an article on the original cut. https://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/batman/261543/batman-forever-the-version-we-never-got-to-see
 
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cr0w

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I was nodding along until I got to this. He was just a bit too campy for me, I like the Napier/Joker character a lot more.
I've never really been able to separate Nicholson from his characters as he pretty much plays himself in everything I've ever seen him in. I don't see Joker in the 89 film, I just see Jack in white makeup on a coke binge. That's just my issue though.
 

#Phonepunk#

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I've never really been able to separate Nicholson from his characters as he pretty much plays himself in everything I've ever seen him in. I don't see Joker in the 89 film, I just see Jack in white makeup on a coke binge. That's just my issue though.
IMO this is why he was perfect for the role. Watch the Shining and that psychoticness he can tap into is undeniable. His eyebrows kind of have a natural evil arch to them.

The Burton entries are still and will always be my favorite. I loved how gothy and dark they were, like dark fantasy, or like a monster movie. The pathos given to the Penguin for instance only could have come from the director of Edward Scissorhands
 
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Nymphae

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I've never really been able to separate Nicholson from his characters as he pretty much plays himself in everything I've ever seen him in. I don't see Joker in the 89 film, I just see Jack in white makeup on a coke binge. That's just my issue though.
I don't think you're wrong exactly, but I still feel like he is a good fit and played the role wonderfully. His laugh is just perfect.
 

lock2k

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IMO this is why he was perfect for the role. Watch the Shining and that psychoticness he can tap into is undeniable. His eyebrows kind of have a natural evil arch to them.

The Burton entries are still and will always be my favorite. I loved how gothy and dark they were, like dark fantasy, or like a monster movie. The pathos given to the Penguin for instance only could have come from the director of Edward Scissorhands
Burton's Penguin shits all over other movie villains. Loki? pfff... :D
 

cr0w

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IMO this is why he was perfect for the role. Watch the Shining and that psychoticness he can tap into is undeniable. His eyebrows kind of have a natural evil arch to them.

The Burton entries are still and will always be my favorite. I loved how gothy and dark they were, like dark fantasy, or like a monster movie. The pathos given to the Penguin for instance only could have come from the director of Edward Scissorhands
I don't disagree about him in The Shining, he was perfect for Kubrick's version of Torrence. Unfortunately, I hate Kubrick's version of The Shining :messenger_tears_of_joy:. I don't think Kubrick understood human emotion at all in general, and his Jack Torrance was already cracked before the story started. He was perfectly cast for that particular version of the character, however.

I actually do like Burton's Batman films quite a bit, but they're very much Tim Burton films with Batman making occasional appearances as opposed to Batman films directed by Tim Burton. The physical sets and soundstages constructed for the films were incredible achievements. I just already had my ideal versions of the characters in my head from the comics (A Death in the Family specifically) I read before the movie hit, so the Burton films kind of gave me whiplash as a kid with their takes on the characters, Joker especially. I just can't see tubby, grumpy Jack Nicholson as anything but tubby, grumpy Jack Nicholson when I'd already become accustomed to the slim, brutal character from the books. Like I said though, those are all my issues, I don't expect anyone else to feel the same.
 

cr0w

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The fucking nipples. Schumacher wanted the suits to evoke images of Roman statues and shit, so his big idea was to add fucking nipples to them.
 
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Doom85

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Batman and Robin is the worst movie but I actually personally hate Forever more because while one could easily tell B&R was going to be a trainwreck, Forever initially showed promise. For one thing, Schumacher wanted to keep the tone consistent with the Burtom movies (but WB felt Returns alienated kids from seeing it so they forced him to make it family-friendly). Kilmer seems like a good choice to play Batman. While it sucks we lost Billy Dee Williams, Tommy Lee Jones was a great pick for Two-Face. Jim Carrey totally could portray the smug yet brilliant Riddler. Nicole Kidman was playing an original character but regardless great actress so all good. The only weak link was Chris O'Donnell who was too old to play Dick Grayson, maybe if they had skipped the origin and had as Nightwing right away it would have worked but they really should have cast someone 15-17 years old (or can pull off the look of that age like Tom Holland).

But then the film came out and was a total let down. Kilmer is trying but just doesn't give the best performance (and apparently the mask doesn't let him breathe through his nose considering he never shuts his mouth). Jones doesn't play Two-Face but an obnoxious clone of the Joker and completely glosses over his entire origin. Carrey just acts like he's in one of his usual comedies and doesn't feel anything like the Riddler. Nicole Kidman plays an adult woman who acts like a horny teenager considering virtually all her dialogue is trying to get into Batman's pants even if its involves misusing police equipment! And O'Donnell sucks. There's plenty of other problems too like Batman spending so much time giving Grayson shit for wanting to kill Two-Face, but then he clearly kills Two-Face at the end with the coins trick as he knew Two-Face couldn't resist grabbing for them (and unlike Two-Face and Talia in the Nolan trilogy where their deaths felt unavoidable given the circumstances, here it just felt unnecessary, like he couldn't have tried to catch Two-Face with a grappling hook or something). The film tries to be goofy and serious at the same time which granted can work on occasion (see the Batman: Brave and the Bold cartoon) but does not have the competence to pull it off. The one good moment is when Two-Face declares he will murder the Graysons if Batman doesn't show up and reveal his identity, Bruce immediately stands up and screams that he's Batman. That is fucking awesome. He's willing to sacrifice any possibility of a normal life just to ensure a few innocent people don't die. Good stuff. Sadly it's a lone gem in a pile of shit.
 

#Phonepunk#

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Tommy Lee Jones was a cool Two-Face*. loved his split in half evil lair with Sugar and Spice


*though still pisses me off we never got our Billy Dee Williams Two-Face Burton sequel
 
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sol_bad

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I was 12 years old when this movie came out and I distinctly remember being repulsed by this whole film as I sat in the cinema watching it. Maybe it was because I was a cool and edgy teenager and I wanted cool, dark, gothic and edgy Batman. I doubt it though as I am still repulsed by the film.
 

VulcanRaven

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The used Danny Elfman's music from the previous movies in the first trailer:

I wonder if they originally planned to use the same theme? Maybe the new musics weren't ready when that was released.
 
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Badenergytroll

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Here is a lovely photoshop of Keaton in the Sonar suit in Batman Forever. He makes it look cool and serious. He was actually fitted for this costume, as you see in my previous post.
 

coopermidnight

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I saw the four 90s Batman movies for the first time a few years ago. Well, three and a half of them. I have a really low bar for movies, and I'm fine with camp, but even I couldn't watch Batman & Robin all the way through.

With that said, I loved Forever. The "over the top" nature of the villains disliked by a lot of posters in this thread is what sold it for me. The Riddler and Two Face really hammed it up, but didn't take it too far, and that's what kept the movie grounded IMO. I thought Robin was funny, too. I think there's something about Batman that just doesn't work for live action, so a movie that didn't take itself too seriously (without ODing on camp) hit the right note for me.