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[fabricated backlash]

I disagree wholeheartedly. A M95 is a dangerous weapon in the hands of someone who understands how to manage its limitations. I platinum'd both versions of the M95 while using a 4x scope, while platinum'ing 4 handguns in the process. If the first shot does not kill, the quickdraw to a sidearm most definitely will. A bad player is one, while in a midrange firefight and has missed their mark, tries to put another bullet in the chamber instead of switching to their sidearm or repositioning themselves. If played aggressively and intelligently, a M95 Recon can be the very tip of the spear.

I think I should have added M95 with x12 scope. I rarely see someone using anything else on the M95.

And note that I know that the M95 can be a dangerous weapon. I just stated that I usually know that a knife-a-thon is imminent when I see a bunch of M95 users. I actually started changing to different weapon loadouts to farm kills from wookies for weapons I don't like to use (F2000 or AUG)

 

[questionmark]

I disagree wholeheartedly. A M95 is a dangerous weapon in the hands of someone who understands how to manage its limitations. I platinum'd both versions of the M95 while using a 4x scope, while platinum'ing 4 handguns in the process. If the first shot does not kill, the quickdraw to a sidearm most definitely will. A bad player is one, while in a midrange firefight and has missed their mark, tries to put another bullet in the chamber instead of switching to their sidearm or repositioning themselves. If played aggressively and intelligently, a M95 Recon can be the very tip of the spear.

I am gonna agree with boris, everything the M95 does, with the exception of insignificant bullet drop and a miniscule amount of damage, the other three rifles do better. Having to put an extra shot or two with your sidearm in a target after hitting them with your rifle is preferable to being killed while you are aiming down your gun at the speed of the wind eroding a mountain. The M95 is just way to slow at absolutely everything, scoping, time between shots, and reloading.

 

[Binabik15]

Btw. you should listen to the podcast. Some interesting stuff there. For example, Matros explains how knife kills work. Why we have a quick and a equip knife. You can get dogtags only by using the equipped knife and if i remember correctly stabbing a guy from the front isn't a one hit kill and you don't get his dogtag. From behind is one hit and there is a special animation.

Heh, besides the dogtag thing this is what I preicted. Go me!

I played engi or recon in BC2 and mostly ran around with my trusty G3 and C4, or shotties. Motion mines are free points, people should use them.

But nobody can tell me that a (spotting) sniper taking out people on turrets or starting up a chopper is bad for their team. Or shooting those evil attack snipers, bad snipers are free tickets to take from the Attackers. Bad players are bad for a team, not snipers. When the M60 was still broken you had squads/teams of medics that´d never heal or revive, is that better somehow?

I like the idea of scope glare, though, if it is happening after you haven´t moved for a while as this article makes it sound like. Snipers not moving around deserve bullets in their brains. Or shotgun slugs

About the sway I´ll have to see. I´d prefer bullet drop on non-sniper rifles first, I think, because aiming with a sniper scope and then headshotting people with your handgun is ridiculous. Or slug sniping, which I´ve been guilty of.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Heh, besides the dogtag thing this is what I preicted. Go me!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28500723&postcount=67

 

[Fallout-NL]

The feeling of nailing a sniper with an M1 Garand is the best thing ever. Even if it didn't happen all too often.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

I guess I could have used the word "recon" as I was speaking for the class. If you hadn't noticed, there are more than sniper rifles that can be used by the recon class.

I qualified my statement by saying "most" recon players do not have the teams interest in mind, typically during Rush. This really isn't debatable. Anyone who's been playing BC2 for even a short while can see this. It's even worse on consoles.

I can't be any clearer. I never said I expect recon to be offensive 100% of the time, or that it's their duty to carry the weight of other slackers on the team, but there is a TEAM focused element (again more applicable to Rush) so as a teammate, you're expected to look out for not only yourself.

I agree most snipers do nothing but wait for someone to show up and pop their heads, but forcing the class to change position when one of the major features is blending with the environment is a gigantic step backwards and a p8unishment to those who play a sniper because they want to be snipers

recon..is there going to be a commander in BF2? The all seeing eye is much more helpful at recon than sending a single armless sniper to get mowed down by the enemy

 

[fabricated backlash]

The feeling of nailing a sniper with an M1 Garand is the best thing ever. Even if it didn't happen all too often.

Better yet, killing them at long range with 2 or 3 Shotgun shots. No bullet drop or spread ftw.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I agree most snipers do nothing but wait for someone to show up and pop their heads, but forcing the class to change position when one of the major features is blending with the environment is a gigantic step backwards and a p8unishment to those who play a sniper because they want to be snipers

recon..is there going to be a commander in BF2? The all seeing eye is much more helpful at recon than sending a single armless sniper to get mowed down by the enemy

No, IMO that's should how a sniper should play, changing positions to adapt the different conditions of the match: if A was blow up, you should be stay there getting more useless headshots or move you position, have a clearer view of B and help your team?.

Also, is not like that on BC2, unless you're in some super obscure place of the map, you can stay that long on the same position, since the kill-cam will reveal your position sooner or later.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

 

[fabricated backlash]

So how does it compare to other BF games then? Never played that BF.
Perfect would be like BF 1943. 75 % body damage, 100% headshot.

 

[staticneuron]

But nobody can tell me that a (spotting) sniper taking out people on turrets or starting up a chopper is bad for their team. Or shooting those evil attack snipers, bad snipers are free tickets to take from the Attackers. Bad players are bad for a team, not snipers. When the M60 was still broken you had squads/teams of medics that´d never heal or revive, is that better somehow?

Agreed. It is unfortunate that so many people simply blame the class instead of the people
"playing" that class. If they are being selfish in the sniper class, making that class more annoying to play will only make the selfish people play another class.

Besides for a realistic military game, all these steps seem a bit unrealistic.

No, IMO that's should how a sniper should play, changing positions to adapt the different conditions of the match: if A was blow up, you should be stay there getting more useless headshots or move you position, have a clearer view of B and help your team?.

Also, is not like that on BC2, unless you're in some super obscure place of the map, you can stay that long on the same position, since the kill-cam will reveal your position sooner or later.

The real question is, how much time are we talking about. Because any good sniper will not stay in the same position the entire match. The worry is for people who do play the class right, might be hampered by arbitrary restrictions. What if team B still could use my help but the timer is up for me giving my position away?

 

[Broder Salsa]

No, IMO that's should how a sniper should play, changing positions to adapt the different conditions of the match: if A was blow up, you should be stay there getting more useless headshots or move you position, have a clearer view of B and help your team?.

Also, is not like that on BC2, unless you're in some super obscure place of the map, you can stay that long on the same position, since the kill-cam will reveal your position sooner or later.

I think most people are talking about conquest here where it can be a completely valid strategy to remain in the same spot like that even when it's conquered and the rest of the team is trying to win it back. There is obviously times when a sniper should not play like that but it's amazingly dumb trying to punish people who actually does it well.

Hardcore mode doesn't have a kill cam and I am sure some normal servers will turn it off too.

A sniper shouldn't run around like some idiot just because his scope will start reflecting otherwise, it will be annoying and get even good snipers to not play the class.

 

[nephilimdj]

As long as this doesn't effect weapons like M1 Garand, im happy. Loved going rambo with it in sniper class

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

I love BC2, even though I didn't sink a great deal of time into it. But I can't say I ever had a problem with campers, and speaking as somebody who likes playing Recon, I thought the sniping was perfectly balanced already, for several reasons:

1) The maps were so large that it was near impossible to camp successfully, and it was incredibly easy for somebody to get behind you if they knew where you were

2) The lack of a prone position meant that snipers were just visible enough to be identifiable by alert enemies.

3) The "spotting" feature meant that other Recons on enemy teams could point you out to all of their teammates.

4) Bullets were affected by gravity, so when shooting over large distances, there was more to it than simply lining up your crosshairs over somebodys head and firing.

5) You didn't get much ammo, which forced you to find Infantry every so often for resupplies.

 

[Mechanized]

As someone who loves playing as a sniper in BC2 I don't have a problem with either of these changes. It's not like scope reflection will ruin every snipers day or something. You're either on the front lines where you won't be able to tag me, or you're counter sniping, so you know where snipers will be regardless. Flankers will still be flankers and smart snipers will know they're around as per usual.

To me it just adds more realism and doesn't effect the gameplay at all. Sway is just... sway. A non-issue.

I don't know why people think these changes will make it so less Snipers show up in a team or Sniping will somehow be harder.

They need to give people a reason to go for objectives. That's the problem.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

No, IMO that's should how a sniper should play, changing positions to adapt the different conditions of the match: if A was blow up, you should be stay there getting more useless headshots or move you position, have a clearer view of B and help your team?.

Also, is not like that on BC2, unless you're in some super obscure place of the map, you can stay that long on the same position, since the kill-cam will reveal your position sooner or later.

I loathe BC for a lot of reasons, and one is snipers are always on the move, thus making them almost a completely different class from BF2. This is BF3, not BC3 and I hoped all the shit introduced in the BC serie would stay away from one of my most anticipated sequels

plus, let's talk about Conquest: I'm standing on a rooftop monitoring the second flag, controlled by my team. Third map is being fought over. I decide to move to the third flag to help my team and some assholes rush on a DPV and capture the second flag. I could have told my team they were coming had I stayed on my position. This is how useful a sniper is, among other things

snipers should never be forced in the middle of an attack because of some dumbfuck decision, they'll be dead in two seconds

 

[subversus]

SWAY IT'S SO HYPNOTIC

 

[CrankyJay]

I hate snipers so much. It's not because I hate being killed by them. It's because they do -absolutely nothing- to help with the goals of the map be it conquest or rush.

What they really should do is make the sniper class something you have to earn in-match through completing team goals, and then only allow you to use it for a minute or two.

Huh? If used correctly RECON should be spotting enemies for the front line fighters, as well as providing cover as well as dropping artillery on charged M-COMs. It just happens that most people like RECON use it as a sniper and does it to meet their own objectives and not the team's.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Huh? If used correctly RECON should be spotting enemies for the front line fighters, as well as providing cover as well as dropping artillery on charged M-COMs. It just happens that most people like RECON use it as a sniper and does it to meet their own objectives and not the team's.

Well they gave them sniper rifles. Recon really should not be a sniper based class. Course they gave medics the LMG.

I don't know why people think these changes will make it so less Snipers show up in a team or Sniping will somehow be harder. .

Because it will make sniping harder. The big problem is that sniping is simple point and click with most FPS nowadays and easy one hit kills. It's not going to change the fact that theres going to be tons of snipers, but at least it will make it harder on the shitty ones instead of all the sniper wannabees getting tons of easy kills.

 

[SapientWolf]

Well they gave them sniper rifles. Recon really should not be a sniper based class. Course they gave medics the LMG.

What should they have then?

 

[WrenchNinja]

Anything to give dumbass wookies a harder time is good in my book. Good snipers will adapt.

 

[BattleMonkey]

What should they have then?

Give them SMG's, force them to actually be doing recon and not just standing around pointing at shit. The military does not give one dude the title "recon", a recon platoon will be fully mixed weapon squad whose role is to perform recon and get in close.

Course they gave them sniper rifles, and really if they didn't they would do even less for the actual team. At least some sniper/recon players actually do spot and such.

 

[SapientWolf]

Give them SMG's, force them to actually be doing recon and not just standing around pointing at shit. The military does not give one dude the title "recon", a recon platoon will be fully mixed weapon squad whose role is to perform recon and get in close.

Course they gave them sniper rifles, and really if they didn't they would do even less for the actual team. At least some sniper/recon players actually do spot and such.

Why would someone do recon in BF3 by walking up to people? Ideally, they should be parked on a high visibility point so they can recon a large area at once.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Why would someone do recon in BF3 by walking up to people? Ideally, they should be parked on a high visibility point so they can recon a large area at once.

Ideally, but the real world does not work that way. Again I'm making comparison to real world recon units that have to often get in close, don't have magical spotting markers etc. Also your not supposed to walk up to people. The whole point also is often to gather intel without engaging the enemy (unless you are Force Recon). Actually the engineer silenced SMG's would make more sense for a recon class.

But it comes down to them not really having a role to give snipers, whose real purpose is simply to be a marksman. Without giving them a role the sniper players would be doing nothing but K/D whoring. It's not ideal of course, but at least it causes some players to actually be team players instead of just K/D snipers.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

I vote that we just get rid of sniper rifles completely. Keep the class, give them some good battle rifles and call it a day.

 

[alr1ght]

Playing recon in BC2 is great. Creeping up from flanking points, throwing motion mines, and shooting unsuspecting enemies in the face.

 

[CrankyJay]

Well they gave them sniper rifles. Recon really should not be a sniper based class. Course they gave medics the LMG.

True, but the point of the changes (apparently they have team-oriented gadgets) will make them less like lone-wolves and more team players. Which the game needs. I can't tell you how many games I have been in where the majority of my team are snipers just holding back so none of our objectives were being met.

 

[Forsaken82]

5) You didn't get much ammo, which forced you to find Infantry every so often for resupplies.

gonna have to disagree with you on this. 95% of the time, a recon sniper is resupplied by the infantry dropping a box near them and then going after their spots. If you had a recon player running around for a resupply, someone wasn't doing their job. At least that is my view on it.

 

[Marleyman]

I love BC2, even though I didn't sink a great deal of time into it. But I can't say I ever had a problem with campers, and speaking as somebody who likes playing Recon, I thought the sniping was perfectly balanced already, for several reasons:

1) The maps were so large that it was near impossible to camp successfully, and it was incredibly easy for somebody to get behind you if they knew where you were

2) The lack of a prone position meant that snipers were just visible enough to be identifiable by alert enemies.

3) The "spotting" feature meant that other Recons on enemy teams could point you out to all of their teammates.

4) Bullets were affected by gravity, so when shooting over large distances, there was more to it than simply lining up your crosshairs over somebodys head and firing.

5) You didn't get much ammo, which forced you to find Infantry every so often for resupplies.

As a big-time BC2 player, I agree with all of this.

 

[CrankyJay]

gonna have to disagree with you on this. 95% of the time, a recon sniper is resupplied by the infantry dropping a box near them and then going after their spots. If you had a recon player running around for a resupply, someone wasn't doing their job. At least that is my view on it.

That happens all the time. I'd run through my ammo and ask a teammate or squadmate to spawn on me and I just get ignored. Not sure why anyone would want to pass up a free 60+ points when they die.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I vote that we just get rid of sniper rifles completely. Keep the class, give them some good battle rifles and call it a day.

People would freak, really they should just do as many old school games did, and make sniping a challenge to use. Problem with snipers especially in most common console shooters is that it's become so easy to do and instant killing crazy firepower. They also love to make it easy to hit fast moving targets. Look at sniping in ARMA games, it's not easy and realistic. You wouldn't have every person playing a sniper when they see it takes real dedication.

gonna have to disagree with you on this. 95% of the time, a recon sniper is resupplied by the infantry dropping a box near them and then going after their spots. If you had a recon player running around for a resupply, someone wasn't doing their job. At least that is my view on it.

Especially since the Recon guys were sitting back near the spawns, so assault troops would just drop off ammon them when running back into the fight. I always did as it's easy points to leave them ammo.

 

[Marleyman]

NM

 

[CrankyJay]

3) The "spotting" feature meant that other Recons on enemy teams could point you out to all of their teammates.

Ever play against a bunch of snipers on a hardcore server? There's no spotting. It's tough to counteract a deadly accurate sniper when you can't figure out where the hell they're firing from.

 

[Marleyman]

People would freak, really they should just do as many old school games did, and make sniping a challenge to use. Problem with snipers especially in most common console shooters is that it's become so easy to do and instant killing crazy firepower. They also love to make it easy to hit fast moving targets. Look at sniping in ARMA games, it's not easy and realistic. You wouldn't have every person playing a sniper when they see it takes real dedication.

I don't think sniping in BC2, on xbox at least, is easy at all. People will TRY to snipe but not many are truly excellent at it.

 

[SapientWolf]

Ideally, but the real world does not work that way. Again I'm making comparison to real world recon units that have to often get in close, don't have magical spotting markers etc. Also your not supposed to walk up to people. The whole point also is often to gather intel without engaging the enemy (unless you are Force Recon). Actually the engineer silenced SMG's would make more sense for a recon class.

But it comes down to them not really having a role to give snipers, whose real purpose is simply to be a marksman. Without giving them a role the sniper players would be doing nothing but K/D whoring. It's not ideal of course, but at least it causes some players to actually be team players instead of just K/D snipers.

A good recon unit in BF3 will know the vantage points and be able to use them effectively while remaining undetected. So they're already a good fit for the sniper rifle. The skillset is the same.

 

[Marleyman]

Ever play against a bunch of snipers on a hardcore server? There's no spotting. It's tough to counteract a deadly accurate sniper when you can't figure out where the hell they're firing from.

Don't play hardcore..I don't because of that.

 

[alr1ght]

I don't think sniping in BC2, on xbox at least, is easy at all. People will TRY to snipe but not many are truly excellent at it.

the problem is, even if they suck at it, randoms will just sit on a hill regardless, completely ignoring objectives. Sniper classes themselves aren't bad at all, it's just the people playing them ruin objective modes.

 

[CrankyJay]

Don't play hardcore..I don't because of that.

I know. Sometimes those are the only servers I can get on.

Ever play hardcore on Vietnam? Holy fuck is that hard.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I loathe BC for a lot of reasons, and one is snipers are always on the move, thus making them almost a completely different class from BF2. This is BF3, not BC3 and I hoped all the shit introduced in the BC serie would stay away from one of my most anticipated sequels

plus, let's talk about Conquest: I'm standing on a rooftop monitoring the second flag, controlled by my team. Third map is being fought over. I decide to move to the third flag to help my team and some assholes rush on a DPV and capture the second flag. I could have told my team they were coming had I stayed on my position. This is how useful a sniper is, among other things

snipers should never be forced in the middle of an attack because of some dumbfuck decision, they'll be dead in two seconds

Recon can act in various ways in BC2, but you *should* act like a sniper if you have a sniper rifle, beacuse or you are very good quick sniping or you're fucked in the front of a battle, of course you can provide support but most of the times you are away from the close quarter fights.

But again, that dosn't mean you clustered in one fucking spot.

I barely enter in fights when I play Recon with a sniper rifle, only when it's necesary or the situation is desperate.But I move, I change positions, sometimes I try sneaking enemy flags to hit the enemies from the back and my team from the front, sometimes I run along my teammates part of the way and support them with motion sensors, to help them avoid possible ambush then I take a safe position to snipe.And of course I spot, spot, spot....

Sniper that barely use they're fucking motion mines for only to avoid getting backstabed every time they camp are a shame for the game.

Even guarding a flag, I change positioons to find the best spot or to cover my team, or came closer and try help them with motion mines, there's a dozen of reasons in which you should move.

 

[Marleyman]

I know. Sometimes those are the only servers I can get on.

Ever play hardcore on Vietnam? Holy fuck is that hard.

I play Vietnam more than vanilla BC2 but have never done hardcore.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Recon =/= Sniper in BF3. Demize already stated that you'll have options in the Recon class.

 

[Marleyman]

the problem is, even if they suck at it, randoms will just sit on a hill regardless, completely ignoring objectives. Sniper classes themselves aren't bad at all, it's just the people playing them ruin objective modes.

True, that is going to happen in any FPS like this. It still isn't worth getting get of snipers altogether; maybe they should implement a quick-vote system to boot someone like that? I dunno.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

Ok, keep the sniper rifles, get rid of the scopes. Iron sights or bust baby. Two of the greatest snipers in history, Simo Hayha and Carlos Hathcock, didn't need any optics.

Keep the other red dots and 4x scopes, but only for the other rifles and smg's.

 

[CrankyJay]

True, that is going to happen in any FPS like this. It still isn't worth getting get of snipers altogether; maybe they should implement a quick-vote system to boot someone like that? I dunno.

Actually, I thought for maybe people who abuse recon or helicopters/tanks they have a cooldown timer before you can play that class/vehicle again.

I've played on servers where you could only play as a recon 5 times per match.

 

[Cat Party]

oh how I wish this would be true

but there is no way in hell snipers won't be overused

Truth. In BC2, I thought the recon class was pretty useless in combat, since even smgs could be used to countersnipe, but that didn't stop people from overusing them.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Ok, keep the sniper rifles, get rid of the scopes. Iron sights or bust baby. Two of the greatest snipers in history, Simo Hayha and Carlos Hathcock, didn't need any optics.

Keep the other red dots and 4x scopes, but only for the other rifles and smg's.

So or you're a pro or people with rifles will be able to snipe better than any recon?....I got that right? So people should play like they had a railgun or something?

 

[SapientWolf]

the problem is, even if they suck at it, randoms will just sit on a hill regardless, completely ignoring objectives. Sniper classes themselves aren't bad at all, it's just the people playing them ruin objective modes.

Arty should take care of that problem.

 

[Marleyman]

Sniper that barely use they're fucking motion mines for only to avoid getting backstabed every time they camp are a shame for the game.

Yes they are. That is one of the big reasons why I went over to Vietnam; no motion sensors.

 

[alr1ght]

They should just add a red laser sight to every sniper rifle. Every player can see exactly where the sniper is aiming from (see Uncharted 2/3 co-op).

 

[Sol..]

the problem is, even if they suck at it, randoms will just sit on a hill regardless, completely ignoring objectives. Sniper classes themselves aren't bad at all, it's just the people playing them ruin objective modes.

yeah, i'm tired of this sorry ass perception that they are killing machines by some crusty ass dudes in this thread.

When ya got nearly a dozen snipers crammed in front of those long, thin killzones that are TOO common in BF:BC it's real easy to believe snipers are overpowered.

That's why I like the real battlefields on the PC. Maps were either far too big/open or far too compact for there to dicktons of snipers. Plus the kids were more concerned with getting in the big shit.