edit:
I'll take your word for it then.
Just an observation, nothing else.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Believe it or not, gamers who like the Atelier series are NOT pedophiles
- Thread starter RurouniZel
- Start date
- Status
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
This thread just reminds me I need to get Meruru XD.
Seriously, I never really noticed their shorts skirts (that much, until after seeing the art a few times) and really didn't see Totori's translucent skirt. The games are just great fun. And that octopus attacking Totori piece is just 1 out of 100 events in Totori. This series is nothing like the Compile Heart and Idea Factory games when it comes to sexualising of women (young looking or otherwise).
I really like the colours used in the art work and can't wait to get both Meruru and Ayesha.
Seriously, I never really noticed their shorts skirts (that much, until after seeing the art a few times) and really didn't see Totori's translucent skirt. The games are just great fun. And that octopus attacking Totori piece is just 1 out of 100 events in Totori. This series is nothing like the Compile Heart and Idea Factory games when it comes to sexualising of women (young looking or otherwise).
I really like the colours used in the art work and can't wait to get both Meruru and Ayesha.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I pretty much agree with you but again, there are different ways to produce that comical effect but the show creators specifically picked the panty shot.
You could argue that a panty shot is a standar device to display a character as vulnerable and thus it isn't necessarily sexual/innuendo'ish but I don't think you would have much success at that.
I would also say that being in the subculture at the same time enlightens and obscures.
If you allow me, I'd say this isn't all that different from bull runs in the sense that people inside see the art and aesthetics but at the same time become numb to the whole animal cruelty side.
But yeah calling these shows pedo bait is excessive.
I'd fund it just to see all the reactions.
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
MAEKAWA DRESSED AS A DANGO
DANGO.
ROUND DUMPLING.
ROUND.
BALL.
BALLS.
TESTICLES.
MAEKAWA DRESSED AS A TESTICLE.
I see through your mo peado kawaii double entendre shit, deep down you wish to penetrate minor children dont you, you SICK FUCK
DONT COME NEAR MY FAMILY YOU RAPIST
Best girl in that show
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
There's a good reason for that... and I'd be careful to use it as a slant on her.
What about it ?
Delusibeta
Banned
Considering that most of the concerns seems to boil down to a) this is a show strictly about demonising stuff (which, considering AFAIK the remit didn't include any space for "good" examples, is understandable) and b) she's not going to do any research (wait and see. For example, if she's going to complain about excessive fanservice in Japanese games without mentioning the phrase "different culture" and making some effort explaining the differences between American culture and Japanese culture) and c) she's intrinsically biased (also wait and see, but her CV is questionable), I can understand some of the complaints (although not the size and ferocity of outright slandering her and sending death threats, but This Is The Internet: outright slander and sending death threats is what we do). Will an anime version prompt a similar responce? More than likely, since This Is The Internet etc.
Spirit Icana
Member
So we agree on that one. And most of the fluff could be told in much less words as well.
So we agree again! I think your saying you just don't want the skits cut. Perhaps we can come to agreement that they could be better. I'm a sucker for family stories so I liked the latter part of Atelier Totori and her convos with her dad and sister about the boat and her missing mother. Relateable and relevant. A number of the convos in the game though distract from my playing. But don't let me talk too bad about Totori man, I loved that game! I still haven't gotten the true ending though because I hate that Spring Cup stuff.
I don't think anyone would disagree that the sexism towards women is even worse in Japan and therefore in a lot of its cultural products.
Funnily enough, one of the most celebrated shows in animeGAF called Space Brothers has very little "moe" in it at all. For me, cuteness is a big part of why I enjoy the anime hobby, but it far from the only thing that shows offer.
Moral Panic
Member
Anime would do worse of course. There are more Anime, and an entire subsection of Anime (harem, and things of that nature) that are completely are fundamentally based on fitting the female cast into little packaged boxes that can be sold.
Seiyuu gotta pay the bills somehow, man!
Xilium
Member
On the issue of the panty shot, I think it just hard for a western audience to understand the frequency in which it's used (whatever the reason for it) simply for the reason that skirts aren't a very common article of clothing for females in the west. Long skirts are worn by a handful of business women and female Amish (or females going for that style) and mini-skirts are, for the most part, only worn by females going for the punk-rock(?) style. There is no in-between.
Short-shorts or skin-tight pants would be the western equivalent. Also, western girls are more prone to wearing thongs. The entire concept of a panty shot just doesn't work here.
Delusibeta
Banned
Not helpful. I realise you like to play up to the otaku stereotype on GAF, but please politely knock it off.
I don't think many anime fans would object to acknowledging that the portrayal of women is pretty shitty in general.
Surely you can tell there's a difference between being told "the thing you like is sexist" and "you are a fucking pedophile child rapist waiting to happen for liking this thing"
Spirit Icana
Member
lol! Well if Gust did as I advised at least they would be doing NISA a favor. I went to their forums a year ago and begged them to fully voice Totori in english. In the end, we got a lot of english voice for the game and I'm happy. It was even more awesome that we got Cassandra Morris to play Totori. I really like her!
Theonik
Member
These exist in a form targeted to females too you know.
You might be underestimating how strong "They're attacking the thing I like!" is. A chunk of people wouldn't admit what you stated. Look at the TvW reaction or the Uncharted 8.5 score thread.
I don't think this is really a men vs. women thing, more like "this is weird" v. "let me like what I like."
Theonik
Member
For the most part people defending what they like have been relatively reasonable for the most part. You can't hope everyone would be though as other parts of this thread would illustrate.
On the matter in question, Japan for better or for worse it a fairly conservative society, and of course this would also translate into the media they produce.
Edit:
He explicitly mentioned women so I thought it was worth pointing out.
A Huge Battleship
Member
Posting in this thread because I have an anime girl avatar.
Moral Panic
Member
Yeah, they do. This season however has at least 7 harem or harem-lite shows, and 2 reverse-harem shows. This isn't counting shows like Binbougami (where half the jokes are about breast sizes) and Rinne no Lagrange (1st season has a tentacles scene amongst other stuff). The portrayal of women in most anime is pretty appalling really.
If I was to talk about a female Character I did like, it would certainly be Nakiami from Bounen no Xamdou. It's ridiculous how many traps they managed to avoid with her character.
Square Triangle
Member
Probably not but the customers who buy it from my selling experiences do freighten me.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Unfortunately we are yet to discover links between lack of a sense of hygiene and touching kiddywinks
Ragingnight
Member
So what if you like a character from a fighting game who happens to be female and under the age of 18 like the girl in my avatar?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXW6Y0b2d-M&t=2m47s
That delicious zoning. The things I would do with this character.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXW6Y0b2d-M&t=2m47s
That delicious zoning. The things I would do with this character.
You get included into the avatar wall of moe like mine.
Rape scene?
Ragingnight
Member
Ganondorfo
Junior Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKmRvzZqDm8
I love the music in this series, these games (atelier, mana khemia, ar tonelico) always have kick ass battle/boss themes, they are so much better than other rpg in music department. Damn you square enix, hire this composer for the next final fantasy.
I love the music in this series, these games (atelier, mana khemia, ar tonelico) always have kick ass battle/boss themes, they are so much better than other rpg in music department. Damn you square enix, hire this composer for the next final fantasy.
Delusibeta
Banned
Chet Rippo
Member
It's pretty moe if you ask me.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Well, Totori would be a better starting point than Meruru in my opinion. Totori is amazing and while Meruru builds on it a bit, my one major Meruru criticism is that the story is more of an epilogue to Rorona and Totori than completely it's own thing. Again, it's not bad by any stretch. Totori and Meruru both make big strides in how the game is presented, and the menus are a lot less clunky and a lot of smart decisions were made (like letting you complete quests with items that are in your container rather than requiring them to be in your basket).
And I'm okay with you having this sentiment.
I was referring to your use of the singular.
Whoa! Didn't see this thread coming. More views in it already than any Atelier OT. You guys should try out Atelier Ayesha when it comes out in NA, um, next year I'm guessing.
I'm playing Atelier Ayesha right now and it ROCKS! Especially the music. Daisuke Achiwa at his best! Props to the other two composers who contributed to the game's soundtrack as well. Quite possibly the best OST I've heard this year. Right up there with Kid Icarus: Uprising and Beyond the Labrynth, and I definately prefer it over Xenoblade's.
I don't think the majority of people think those like me who like the Atelier games are into that nonsense. I mean, I honestly don't know who is enjoying panty shots and all that crap, especially in these games. If your looking for a sexual fix, these games kinda suck for that. But what do I know. There is no denying, however, that the Arland games have there share of bouncing and bare toes. I've yet to see any in Ayesha, but I'm only 13 hrs. in and I'm sure that stuff is lurking somewhere, and I have no idea why Gust puts that stuff in there at all or who they're trying to pander to (themselves probably).
These games are not Ar tonelico or your usual Compile Hearts/Idea Factory games though. The gameplay is not only fun, but addicting. It's one of those "okay just one more level!" kinda games. Watching the days/clock pass in the in-game timer adds to the tension felt while playing. I really enjoy it.
That said though, the games skits and characters are what you would expect from your usual slice of life anime, complete with the old comedy routines. A good editor could go in and cut a lot of the garbage out and have a better flowing story.
I really like these PS3 Atelier games though and I strongly recommend you guys give 'em a try or a rent and see if it's for you. Personally, I sometime dreamed of how a western studio would do an Atelier game, complete with Patrick Doyle or David Downes music, but with an artsyle more suitable for a western crowd and the bullcrap removed.
Biggest potential audience for the Atelier series to expand, in my opinion, are females. I'm thinking mainly about Japan, but in the West your typical FPS male isn't going to browse the Gamestop PS3 section (one of the few places you'll see an Atelier game on a store shelf), see a young girl with a crown on her head, and say "oh, I gotta have that." Princess's as stars are generally percieved to be more geared toward young girls. That's why movies like the Little Mermaid back in the day, and recently Brave from Pixar get a lot of chatter about how they'll do at the box office as the movies may be perceived as being for young girls and unappealing to men of any age.
Back to Japan, one youtube commenter commented for a video showing a convention or something where Gust revealed A14 (Atelier Ayesha) that the entire audience in attendance are all guys. The only gal there was the one on stage. When I see Harvest Moon and now Rune Factory scoring with the ladies, I have to wonder why the Atelier series, starring girls in the main role, are only attracting men in Japan. Perhaps the main problem is the marketing, but I wonder if the problem has anything with the games themselves too.
Atelier Rorona, Totori, and Meruru (when it first shipped) were all rated CERO A in Japan, which is like rated E in NA. Rorona and Totori sales ranged from mediocre to okay, but Meruru, starring a pink haired princess, was where the real sale success was. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm drawing this from memory, but I believe Meruru scored 130k units sold total according to famitsu data. Totori and Rorona were 90k or under, and the recently released Ayesha is currently sitting somewhere in the 90k area trying to crawl six figures. All famitsu data.
My question is, where did those extra 30k Meruru sales come from? All otaku? My growing guess is that girls played a role in the increase fueled by the fact that for some reason, children were getting their hands on Atelier Meruru and suddenly parents were calling CERO telling them that they deem some parts of the game inappropriate for there child. Thus Meruru had to be re-rated to CERO B. Atelier Ayesha, of which 13 hrs in, appears far more modest than any of the Arland games, is also rated CERO B. Of course with Ayesha, I can't understand most of the chats so I don't know what their talking about for the most part, but there is nothing that leads me to believe their talking about anything beyond Alchemy, Nio, candy, flowers, animals, and stuff like that. Everything's in good taste.
I think Rorona and Totori managed to escaped a rating change because they were less popular and primarily purchased by older users who could afford a PS3 at those times. But Meruru got more customers, and I speculate a number of those people have never played an Atelier game before. I highly doubt those old Salburg players who played the PS1 Atelier games (didn't some of those sell over 200K?) decided to finally jump back on board the Atelier bus after so many years had past. I speculate a number of little Japanese girls added to Meruru's total. How many? I don't know.
I may have gotten way off topic here. I'd like to see more people play and enjoy the games, and we who already do most certainly are not pedophiles, but if that perception that little girls is the sole selling point of these games is anywhere near common among fellow gamers, then that mis-information is just that, mis-information. These are solid games that could always have more improvement.
And, man, that music baby!
Listen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJJK21-wanY&feature=channel&list=UL battle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDfEpWgjjzc&feature=relmfu world map
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuuiMUuIdzs&feature=channel&list=UL battle
I could post the entire first disk. Everything's awesome. I listened to it during my trip up and down the east coast. Haven't listend to disc 2 yet though. Have to beat the game first. Can't wait to hear the vocal songs too.
Very interesting post. Thank you.
Boss Man
Member
Why is her shirt falling off?
I don't find that image sexual at all, I find it cute, and having watched the show, I find it specially cute. If you could post images of Maekawa I would be most grateful
She's very obviously in a flirty pose. Are you just trying to defend your position or do you honestly not find that image to be sexualized? If you don't see it, that's actually pretty interesting.
Ganondorfo
Junior Member
26 PAGES FOR AN ATELIER GAME????? What is this bizarro world...
I dont get it, they keep making these atelier games, yet the great old rpgs like suikoden, breath of fire, shadow hearts, persona, shin migami tensei, dark cloud, baten kaitos, xenosaga never are made for this generation of systems. I dont get it
I dont get it, they keep making these atelier games, yet the great old rpgs like suikoden, breath of fire, shadow hearts, persona, shin migami tensei, dark cloud, baten kaitos, xenosaga never are made for this generation of systems. I dont get it
Anime is dead in America and Japan wouldn't care.
Shaft didn't have the budget for quality clothing.
I'm pretty sure that's just how the artist draws all of his characters. As in she's not capable of drawing them differently.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
I never expected this to go on this long let me tell you. I was sure the thread would be dead by morning. orz
At the very least, you seem to have gotten a fair amount of people interested in this franchise.
As for me, I bought Totori on a whim sometime last year. I haven't played much, but I wasn't too crazy about what I played. Maybe I'll give it another chance, but only after Xenoblade and Persona 3.
Yeah, I have Rorona and Totori to play, but for now I'm going through Growlanser, and by the time that's done Last Story will probably be out. Probably would have been... interesting if I dug into them right after Spec Ops: The Line though.
well, the direction the thread went is kind of interesting though. Heck, thanks to this thread, Ive been thinking of finally finishing Rorona. The Arland series have been in my backlog for a while now.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Do it!
- Status