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[Chie Satonaka]

Yeah, sorry. Even if I didn't agree with TPP (I don't know enough about it to say if I'm for it or against it), words matter.

Given all the other horrible bullshit that Trump is already proposing, and the literal Legion of Doom that is his cabinet, I don't think the opposition party should be talking about being "delighted" to work with him, like ever.

I'm not speaking to Sanders' consistency on this issue, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to have an issue with the way he phrased it. We shouldn't be praising Trump at all.

 

[Bronx-Man]

LOL Dem voters off to a good start too, I see. Bernie wanted TPP gone too!

And keep calling them all Deplorable and alienate them for the next two elections, instead of understanding them and flipping them back to blue.

Fuck them. The Dems shouldn't waste their time trying to appeal to people enticed by bigoted policies and statements.

 

[royalan]

Bernie's a socialist and ran on this stuff.

People just ignored and listened to free school/healthcare/etc...

Also funny that anyone in the GOP is against free trade, it's been a staple of there's for a LONG time.

In the long term, I think it's a bad move.. as I think free trade creates as many jobs as people think it loses.

Like on NPR today talking to beef producers who aren't happy with this move as it closes up rules that would have made selling beef in Asia easier to compete with Australia while hay producers are happy as it keeps the Japanese dairy market in tact that could have been weakened to due to decreased tariffs.

It still is a staple of theirs. I'm still not convinced that Trump himself is suddenly anti-trade.

I'm betting we'll see Republican boot TPP in favor of something that more directly benefits their corporate interests.

 

[guek]

I'm not speaking to Sanders' consistency on this issue, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to have an issue with the way he phrased it. We shouldn't be praising Trump at all.

I don't think this matters, it's just theater after all, but this is fair if that's how you feel.

 

[boiled goose]

A lot of people praise this from across the aisles but Free Trade agreements get a ridiculously bad rep. People get hung up on theoretical courts between corporations and countries as well copyright law, thats important to vocalize but the real utilization is duty mitigation. It allows US companies to sell to customers over seas with ease, which promotes production in our own borders. Axing free trade just ends up hurting the complex manufacturing that still remains in the US and benefits from Free Trade, like chemical production.

A lot of US manufacturing companies in the United States rely on NAFTA and were looking forward to the TPP in order to sell their products to countries besides ourselves. We can obviously still do that, but customers in those countries will look elsewhere to avoid the duty. For example, Japan brings in a ton of raw materials from my company and the TPP would have encouraged us to continue that production in the states. It will be easier to do so in south east asia now.

Im not an economist but I was a Free Trade Analyst for a decent while, so Im not talking 100% out of my ass.

I would have been completely fine with reworking the agreement, but cutting it down completely seems like a poor choice.

An agreement not entirely written by corporate interests negotiated in closed door deals with public oversight would be a good place to start.

Also Sanders has been extremely vocal against Trump. See his constant statements on healthcare.

The need for many on this board to hate on him for not sacrificing principle for partisan bullshit is hilariously sad and pathetic.

The only valid nuance angle of criticism is that letting Trump do anything good gives him political capital to get away with bad. But then... is killing tpp good or bad? If bad then no issue, will hurt trump. If good, then why the fuck where corporatist Democrats pushing for it? Rhetorical question of course. Answer in the question

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Nah, not really. It's just Bernie being consistent. He's been calling out Trump left and right, this doesn't change any of that or mean he thinks Trump is a reasonable human being deep down inside.

He thinks of Trump highly enough to praise him when he could have said, "it's a meaningless gesture, it was dead in congress anyway".

And highly enough to say he would work with him if blah blah blah.

Sorry, the people I want fighting for me would not say any of that about this administration. They know what is at stake for the most marginalized.

 

[Yado]

LOL Dem voters off to a good start too, I see. Bernie wanted TPP gone too!

And keep calling them all Deplorable and alienate them for the next two elections, instead of understanding them and flipping them back to blue.

There's nothing to understand. Those people are well aware of their decision and will only "flip" if said decision doesn't work out the way they hoped.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Right, this is the internet where people get hung up on lingustics. Fine, replace compromise with "working with", that make you happy?

Well given this thread's premise is Bernie's a hypocritical sell-out for using the word 'delighted' and your post was agreeing with that notion, yeah I guess people do?

Has there been *anything* Bernie hadn't already stated long before he was for that Trump's done that he's bent backwards for?

 

[msdstc]

For that, I commend you.

But honestly, no I don't think Trump deserves praise for this or that dems should be "delighted" to work with him. I sure as hell didn't see Republicans say that about Barack in the 8 years he was president.

Yeah the republicans are shitty so we should be shitty right on back.

Right, this is the internet where people get hung up on lingustics. Fine, replace compromise with "working with", that make you happy?

If somethings good, why should the dems not work with them on that? Like if Trump did something the republicans didn't want, and the dems loved the idea, should they say NO FUCK YOU TRUMP!

 

[TestOfTide]

Well this is the irony right? Trump has taken up two popular left-wing positions with regard to free trade and foreign intervention. It's pretty funny because it seems that in doing so, he pushed a lot of people on the left determined to disagree with him to the right on these issues.

Except the far left still stuck firm with their pro-isolationist and anti-TPP bullshit.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

he's going to replace it with something worse, i hope people realize.

Yep.

 

[NullPointer]

Of course, I'm sure there will be a lot of this in the upcoming years. Republicans did it to Obama and dems will do it to Trump.

No thanks.

Politics isn't about being right. Its about working with people who usually disagree or have their own agenda and finding a way to move the ball forward. Its about compromise at its very core.

I'd rather see some forward progress on the issues I care about then just see more obstruction for the sake of obstruction. That's pure theater.

On that note I hope Trump can achieve something positive with our totally busted VA programs before he's impeached. I'd be delighted.

 

[guek]

He thinks of Trump highly enough to praise him when he could have said, "it's a meaningless gesture, it was dead in congress anyway".

And highly enough to say he would work with him if blah blah blah.

Sorry, the people I want fighting for me would not say any of that about this administration. They know what is at stake for the most marginalized.

Perfection is the enemy of good

This is a really weird purity test imo but you do you

 

[royalan]

An agreement not entirely written by corporate interests negotiated in closed door deals with public oversight would be a good place to start.

Also Sanders has been extremely vocal against Trump. See his constant statements on healthcare.

The need for many on this board to hate on him for not sacrificing principle for partisan bullshit is hilariously sad and pathetic.

The only valid nuance angle of criticism is that letting Trump do anything good gives him political capital to get away with bad. But then... is killing tpp good or bad? If bad then no issue, will hurt trump. If good, then why the fuck where corporatist Democrats pushing for it? Rhetorical question of course. Answer in the question

TPP was imperfect, but I will eat my hat if you get anything like this from Trump and the Republicans, Bernie influence or not. (read: not. Bernie has no influence over Trump.)

 

[Mr.Mike]

I still is a staple of there's. I'm still not convinced that Trump himself is suddenly anti-trade.

I'm betting we'll see Republican boot TPP in favor of something that more directly benefits their corporate interests.

They might try, but I don't think they could, even if they wanted to. Maybe if China was a lot weaker they could negotiate a more extractive deal, but now they have to compete with China. And China will surely be able to offer a better deal than what Trump probably has in mind. Probably not anything particularly benevolent either, but better.

 

[nephilimdj]

I am just thankful wikileaks leaked a early draft so we could see how shitty the original deal was

I mean Australia had to push to get Cigarette companies to lose suing rights, whole thing was fucked up and now reddit loves the TTP

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Once again, this comes down to:

OMG this isn't perfect I'm not for it, cool I hope you enjoy something much worse.

 

[Big Baybee]

Perfection is the enemy of good

This is a really weird purity test imo but you do you

Being anti trade in 2017 is also weird, but here we are.

 

[Fatalah]

Bernie is playing this perfectly. If Trump ends up liking Bernie more than his fellow Republicans, that would be great.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Perfection is the enemy of good

This is a really weird purity test imo but you do you

Nah, this is a screw up Bernie has been consist on, and seeing how, like the ID politics comments, it has the potential of throwing people like me under the bus.

Not gonna spare him. Maybe if it was Harris or someone else, but Bernie has had enough chances.

 

[ChouGoku]

Right, this is the internet where people get hung up on lingustics. Fine, replace compromise with "working with", that make you happy?

Don't "compromise" and "work with" mean different things???

 

[Bronx-Man]

Yeah the republicans are shitty so we should be shitty right on back.

It got them complete control of the federal govt. plus a good portion of state govts., so they must be doing something right.

Perfection is the enemy of good

This is a really weird purity test imo but you do you

Isn't this exactly what Bernie's hardcore fans did during the primary?

 

[legacyzero]

Fuck them. The Dems shouldn't waste their time trying to appeal to people enticed by bigoted policies and statements.

NO. There's no "FUCK THEM" to it. Don't fuck this next four years up for a movement to take the government back because your angry ass doesn't wanna reach out. The three states Trump flipped were for economic reasons. Not all the people that voted for Trump are shitty hateful people. JUST STOP IT. People like you are the reason we lost. If you don't wanna get right and get involved in ACTUAL MATURE POLITICAL DISCOURSE, you need to pack it up.

Not every voter is a social justice voter. It sucks, but it's true. Deal with that. Our ignorance And and assumption gave us a RED America for at least two years. You don't have to fuckin like it. But you have to get involved with the discussion for the midterms and play this right. Or get ready for a loooooong GOP rule.

There's nothing to understand. Those people are well aware of their decision and will only "flip" if said decision doesn't work out the way they hoped.

That's not true at all. Establishment Democrats wanted to push a hawkish corporate democrat that pushed for he trade deals that brought harm to the rust belt. Those people were in danger of flipping anyway because of that! Those are DEMOCRATIC states that flipped red because of that. Dems need a better fucking candidate.

 

[boiled goose]

TPP was imperfect, but I will eat my hat if you get anything like this from Trump and the Republicans, Bernie influence or not. (read: not. Bernie has no influence over Trump.)

Imperfect is a nice characterization. Be honest here. You think tpp was created with an inclusive economy and the environment in mind?

Please. Tell me you actually believe that. If not, then why the fuck are Democrats pushing for shit that allows a monster like Trump to outflank them from the left?

It's inexcusable

 

[damisa]

Being anti trade in 2017 is also weird, but here we are.

Being anti-trade is the left's version of being anti-climate change. It's a blatant disregard of expert opinions on the matter in order to believe a populist who clearly knows nothing about the topic.

 

[Bronx-Man]

JUST STOP IT. People like you are the reason we lost.

And there it is.

 

[kirblar]

The three states Trump flipped were for economic reasons.

Bullshit. We know how people who voted primarily on the economy voted. They voted for Clinton. This is a complete and total misrepresentation of the data we have. If these people wanted to vote on Economics, they would have.

They didn't. They voted on racism. Because they wanted to.

 

[boiled goose]

Being anti-trade is the left's version of being anti-climate change. It's a blatant disregard of expert opinions on the matter in order to believe a populist who clearly knows nothing about the topic.

Because tpp was just "trade". What a Fucking dishonest strawman argument.

 

[guek]

Being anti trade in 2017 is also weird, but here we are.

You know, I don't completely disagree. Trade is definitely something I don't align with Bernie on 100%. That said, I wasn't pro-TPP either.

Isn't this exactly what Bernie's hardcore fans did during the primary?

Yes? It was dumb then too. Thankfully most of them voted for Hillary anyway.

 

[royalan]

Bernie is playing this perfectly. If Trump ends up liking Bernie more than his fellow Republicans, that would be great.

I don't think Trump has mentioned Bernie more than once since he won the election.

This is pretty simple guys. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell own Trump, because the moment he took office he's been in breach of our constitution and several dozen laws. The only thing keeping him from being immediately impeached is that Paul Ryan considers him a useful idiot. The second he steps out of line in any significant way, it's that ass.

You will not see Trump work with any Democrat in any significant way, especially not Bernie Sanders. Republicans literally will not let it happen.

 

[kirblar]

Yes? It was dumb then too. Thankfully most of them voted for Hillary anyway.

But not enough.

 

[Taelus]

He thinks of Trump highly enough to praise him when he could have said, "it's a meaningless gesture, it was dead in congress anyway".

And highly enough to say he would work with him if blah blah blah.

Sorry, the people I want fighting for me would not say any of that about this administration. They know what is at stake for the most marginalized.

In his full statement he also said this;

If President Trump is seriously opposed to outsourcing, he can lead the way by shutting down his own sweatshops in Bangladesh, China and Mexico and paying workers in the U.S. a living wage.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-statement-on-trans-pacific-partnership

He's also continued to harshly criticize Trump on issues that affect marginalized people.

 

[Toxi]

"If President Trump is serious about a new policy to help American workers, then I would be delighted to work with him.”

This statement seems to be deliberately constructed to put pressure on Trump in this direction.

"If President Trump is serious about a new policy to help American workers"

Though I question the effectiveness of such a statement when Trump has repeatedly demonstrated he is not serious about these issues.

 

[Aselith]

It got them complete control of the federal govt. plus a good portion of state govts., so they must be doing something right.

You ready to go to this Klan rally? We gotta do it like them cause that's how they won, right?

 

[boiled goose]

Bullshit. We know how people who voted primarily on the economy voted. They voted for Clinton. This is a complete and total misrepresentation of the data we have. If these people wanted to vote on Economics, they would have.

They didn't. They voted on racism. Because they wanted to.

Both sides here are being reductionist. It's both and it's also sometimes neither

 

[Bronx-Man]

You ready to go to this Klan rally? We gotta do it like them cause that's how they won, right?

Make up your minds, are Trump voters racists or not?

 

[Carpe Carnim]

It got them complete control of the federal govt. plus a good portion of state govts., so they must be doing something right.

Isn't this exactly what Bernie's hardcore fans did during the primary?

All the newly minted Bernistas seem to conveniently forget their brethren standing shoulder to shoulder with the Tea Party in 2010, screaming "Kill the Bill" as Dems did the heavy lifting on the ACA.

Fug'em

 

[legacyzero]

And there it is.

BOOM. There's the dismissive.

What? You want receipts?? Look at the polls leading up to Election Day. People like you make people afraid of telling the truth in the polls. But they spoke up in the voting booth. Stop yelling at them and help them out. Stop fucking making them feel "deplorable" and have a fucking conversation.

 

[guek]

BOOM. There's the dismissive.

What? You want receipts?? Look at the polls leading up to Election Day. People like you make people afraid of telling the truth in the polls. But they spoke up in the voting booth. Stop yelling at them and help them out. Stop fucking making them feel "deplorable" and have a fucking conversation.

Hey man, I don't disagree with you here but you know as well as I do that yelling at someone to get them to stop yelling at other people wont work

 

[kirblar]

BOOM. There's the dismissive.

What? You want receipts?? Look at the polls leading up to Election Day. People like you make people afraid of telling the truth in the polls. But they spoke up in the voting booth. Stop yelling at them and help them out. Stop fucking making them feel "deplorable" and have a fucking conversation.

They showed up in droves because a white supremacist spoke their language and told them exactly what they wanted to hear.

They don't care about economics that work. They don't care about making sure people get health care. They care about making sure people who don't look like them get hurt.

And they showed up, while "both siders" stayed home. And now we have Trump.

 

[damisa]

Because tpp was just "trade". What a Fucking dishonest strawman argument.

99% of economists were in favor of TPP. Nothing in life was perfect, but it was better than the alternative, which is to let China control the process. Bernie simply has no idea what he's talking about. I mean Bernie blames NAFTA and other free trade deals for the hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs lost, when economists agree that NAFTA was a net job creator and that most manufacturing jobs were lost to automation that would have happened anyway.

 

[legacyzero]

Hey man, I don't disagree with you here but you know as well as I do that yelling at someone to get them to stop yelling at other people wont work

Sorry I get worked up lol. I'm trying to reason with people. The far-left were so fucking toxic this election, and I believe it led to a horrible result.

They showed up in droves because a white supremacist spoke their language and told them exactly what they wanted to hear.

They don't care about economics that work. They don't care about making sure people get health care. They care about making sure people who don't look like them get hurt.

And they showed up, while "both siders" stayed home. And now we have Trump.

THats horse shit.

If I were living in the rust belt and lost my job to trade, I would have voted for him too. Not every issue in America revolves around social issues.

 

[Bronx-Man]

BOOM. There's the dismissive.

What? You want receipts?? Look at the polls leading up to Election Day. People like you make people afraid of telling the truth in the polls. But they spoke up in the voting booth. Stop yelling at them and help them out. Stop fucking making them feel "deplorable" and have a fucking conversation.

You really love saying that, don't you?

What is there to discuss?

"Hey, racism is kinda a big deal-breaker when it comes to picking a president."
"Hey, actually I'm kinda cool with that."

But I'm sure doing the rah-rah unity bullshit with people that call Mexicans rapists and criminals will work out fine. Let me know how that goes.

 

[Toxi]

I doubt Trump will be at odds with the Republican congress.

A. Trump is surrounded by Republicans, not Democrats
B. The parts where Trump disagrees with Republican establishment are mostly foreign policy issues they're willing to concede, because...
C. Trump has been in lockstep with the Republican establishment on domestic policy

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Nevermind.

You guys can give a pass to someone "delighted" to work with Trump. I won't.

Instead fight for all our rights that are in jeopardy and remind everyone at every opportunity who Trump and his cronies are.

Don't ever use "delighted".

We need Dems and Independents who aren't fucking pussies to stand up.

What the fuck are you babbling about?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

oh. good.

conversations.

no, not the racial one we've been needing to have in good faith for the last 400 years. that one is off the table.

just the ones that make moderates feel better about throwing everyone else under the bus because they feel left behind.

 

[guek]

They showed up in droves because a white supremacist spoke their language and told them exactly what they wanted to hear.

They don't care about economics that work. They don't care about making sure people get health care. They care about making sure people who don't look like them get hurt.

And they showed up, while "both siders" stayed home. And now we have Trump.

Hillary may have edged out Trump on the topic of economics but the poll you like to rely on so much also said more people voted for Trump based on economic concerns than immigration or terrorism combined.

 

[nephilimdj]

99% of economists were in favor of TPP. Nothing in life was perfect, but it was better than the alternative, which is to let China control the process. Bernie simply has no idea what he's talking about. I mean Bernie blames NAFTA and other free trade deals for the hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs lost, when economists agree that NAFTA was a net job creator and that most manufacturing jobs were lost to automation that would have happened anyway.

Alternative isn't China, TPP is to removed USA from WTO rules in Asia.
USA is still fighting to keep China weak in the WTO

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Hillary historically being one of the least liked candidates in recent history may have also had something to do with Trump winning, but yes it's the fault of Bernie and a whole bunch of people who happily voted Obama twice turning racist.

It's not even "Bernie would've won"; I honestly think Obama running a third fucking term would've won. Biden would've won. Warren would've won. Hillary was a poor choice and the next election relies on mobilising people who weren't energised by Clinton's bad campaign and yes, moderates wooed over by the allure of their long gone jobs coming back. It's NOT getting achieved by getting angry over petty shit like your favourite scapegoat used the word 'delighted' over a policy change he already made it known he wanted made.

 

[kirblar]

Hillary may have edged out Trump on the topic of economics but the poll you like to rely on so much also said more people voted for Trump based on economic concerns than immigration or terrorism combined.

Yes, the people voting for Trump on economics are looking for scapegoats, and luckily for them, they were plenty ready to offer all sorts of minorities as scapegoats again, including the old perennial standby, the Jews!