Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Because unless he / she can read minds, there is no way said poster can make any sort of "guarantee".
*Edit
Or should I say, "you" instead perhaps. Considering the original quote was yours.
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Bikini Armor Battle Damage: Sexy Armor Hypocrisy (?) featuring (some of) NeoGAF
- Thread starter Dawg
- Start date
Because unless he / she can read minds, there is no way said poster can make any sort of "guarantee".
*Edit
Or should I say, "you" instead perhaps. Considering the original quote was yours.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I was just coming from the point of view of guys that never like to play as male characters when their showing a lot of skin in provocative ways.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Equally, this same tumblr has a bingo card for females in similar armour, while praising this character design. So, you know, swings and roundabouts.
But that's just it, you can't hold individuals accountable for general trends.
By the same logic it's just as hypocritical for ANYONE who hates those female designs to say a single positive thing when a bare chested male design comes about. I don't expect people to hold their tastes back any more in that situation and neither should anyone else.
plasmawave
Banned
Fighting objectification with more objectification, my friend.
Riposte
Member
Maybe because they don't think it (any specific case) is bad?
this .
Given the existence of Vaan in FF XII its strange that this actually sparks a conversation.
Overall I would have just considered this "quirky japanese character design" which is present in so many games and actually something i have gotten used to entirely at this point (since I played my fair share of JRPGs over the years).
But of course, if you enjoy design for female characters that evokes guilty pleasure (not going to lie: i do in certain games) its just fair to accept that this should also apply to male characters as well. Obviously if you lack the guilty pleasure towards a certain design the only other observable property of such design is their exploitive nature, but if you feel offended by this then stop being a hypocrite.
Overall I would have just considered this "quirky japanese character design" which is present in so many games and actually something i have gotten used to entirely at this point (since I played my fair share of JRPGs over the years).
But of course, if you enjoy design for female characters that evokes guilty pleasure (not going to lie: i do in certain games) its just fair to accept that this should also apply to male characters as well. Obviously if you lack the guilty pleasure towards a certain design the only other observable property of such design is their exploitive nature, but if you feel offended by this then stop being a hypocrite.
Aquamarine
Member
like people are saying...it's hard to separate out the people on gaf who would defend it if it were on a girl....and the people who just legitimately think it's objectively bad and would mock it just as much if it were on a girl.
it's hard to make blanket, sweeping generalisations given the uniqueness of this scenario.
i guess you have to consider whether gaf is a purely accurate representation of "the hypocritical community," or whether gaf has a more mature population.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Oh ok I see what you mean. I'll take back the "guarantee" part but isn't male insecurity still considered to be a big problem?
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
A problem? A good chunk of the industry thrives on male power fantasies!
It's not bad to me because it's 'bikini'-esque. It's bad to me because I think the aesthetic looks gaudy as fuck. I can't say how I'd feel w/ it on a female character (perhaps the aesthetic would 'click' better for me), but based on the elements that bug me I'm pretty confident I'd still hate it. I think the total lack of a chestpiece when the armor otherwise looks like heavy armor is what does it for me. If it was more of a light armor I'd have zero problems with it, but it just looks like something is missing -- and the pieces that are there feel like not a perfect fit for each other, either. I think someone put it best when they said it was like having a partially completed armor set in an MMO, or one where you wear a piece with a shit/missing model because it has better stats.
imo there are plenty of good and plenty of bad "sexy" JRPG character outfit designs for both genders over the past couple of decades, and this slots into the bad category for me (I don't find it 'sexy', for one).
imo there are plenty of good and plenty of bad "sexy" JRPG character outfit designs for both genders over the past couple of decades, and this slots into the bad category for me (I don't find it 'sexy', for one).
Exactly. You got a bunch of guys going "oh god that's disgusting, is this a man?" Suddenly the plausibility and design of bikini armor comes into play when it's always been this terrible and unrealistic for years.
even if you were, the homophobic accusation is a hell of a reach
I've never seen videogame armor that bothered me.
SolidSnakex
Member
If anything you could argue that their standing in the world would give them the best access to armor. Not just from a financial point of view, but because Noctis in particular should be as protected as possible when going into battle due to his importance in the kingdom. The reason he isn't is simply because FF designs in general are more about style than actual functionality.
Sure, but I think it depends on the situation. Bruce Lee doing that wasn't to appeal to women, but here's how Arrow has done some of its marketing
CW's primary audience is female. There's also that old Twilight trailer clip from a theater showing the reaction of the crowd when Jacob took off his shirt. So shirtless, muscular males in certain settings are absolutely done to appeal to a female audience rather than being "oh, he's badass!" like a character like Kratos is clearly meant to be. And FF is pretty well known for having a rather large female audience. He's pure fanservice for their female audience just as Cidney is obviously fanservice for their male audience.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
That again is a poor statement, since you have no idea if insecurity is the case or people who just do not like the design period male or female.
Granted not a lot of folks have posted various examples of artwork / knowledge to back things up, but thats usually expected on a forum with a userbase as large as GAF.
Unless there are some very obvious cues, such as a person using slang that would be considered homophobic "which in the case they usually get banned for" its difficult to place the blame on said person making the comment in fueled by "male insecurity".
This is more of an example of people disagreeing with something due to the design not being aesthetically pleasing to themselves more than anything.
Since there is a Simpson's pic for everything Id have to say the following below best represents what folks are seeing with the design.
We have tribal tats, form fitting body bib (no idea how that would work considering its only held on by strings on the back), weird floating pieces of armor that would mess with characters animations, poorly designed "blocky" weapon that goes against the flowing curves of the armor design. The general appearance of the face / hairstyle is standard stuff so that does not really get put into the list of whats wrong with the design.
For myself the largest part that ruins the design besides the odd looking armor, is that goddamned body bib. Does not help that over here in Japan one of the images that go along with "body bibs" so to speak would be folklore figure Kintaro.
Or for those of you who read One Piece. Sentomaru (also based off of Kintaro)
pants
Member
Yah it is but not where you have identified it. Also I just don't like when people use strong language to paint broad strokes about people they don't know, especially when said people are on the very same forum and can easily be engaged to offer their input. I really, really dislike this style of conversation, it's just pointless.
On that note, I scanned through the messages and there is only one that seems homophobic, and even that one isnt the worst message and seemingly a normal heterosexual reaction (I observed this in that last thread in the OT regarding gay porn). Also metrosexual doesnt have anything to do with a person's sexuality really (it does, it implies they are heterosexual) but more their fashion sense.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Winterfang
Banned
The character looks cool and stoic but the armor design is awful. If they remove that extra things on the legs, it would be better.
Also why is a guy with a broadsword wearing leather armor. Isn't that for rogues?
Also why is a guy with a broadsword wearing leather armor. Isn't that for rogues?
Well said. 10 years ago the blog's argument may have held up but now there is a lot of backlash to sexualised female characters and bad design for females characters overall. Lucky Chloe and the backlash that character got is proof of that.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Where is your gawd now
Yep another prime example of bad design.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
That again is a poor statement, since you have no idea if insecurity is the case or people who just do not like the design period male or female.
Granted not a lot of folks have posted various examples of artwork / knowledge to back things up, but thats usually expected on a forum with a userbase as large as GAF.
Unless there are some very obvious cues, such as a person using slang that would be considered homophobic "which in the case they usually get banned for" its difficult to place the blame on said person making the comment in fueled by "male insecurity".
This is more of an example of people disagreeing with something due to the design not being aesthetically pleasing to themselves more than anything.
Since there is a Simpson's pic for everything Id have to say the following below best represents what folks are seeing with the design.
I see what you two are saying. The design itself just never bothered me that much and I'm kind of in the Jim Sterling camp of having everyone be sexy all around for equal opportunity. Or maybe I'm just used to this type of armor in Square and jrpg games.
Aquamarine
Member
That blogger post just needlessly stirred up the situation. She make blanket statement about those post whom taken out of context. Not everyone who posted in their protest are supporting female bikini armor. They could've been people who criticize bikini armor regardless of gender or maybe just commenting in general aesthetic.
Does Barioth X armor popular among female audience?
Hey, Wham is awesome as a character, it's not fair to bring him up.Stop creating false equivalence
For example, I like this
And yeah I'll call that Mevius design god awful, just because its does look aesthetically eye blinding. Not because these hypocrisy bullcrap nonsense.
The blog in question damns sexy female designs but is giving this a pass because it''s on a male character. Isn't that the same kind of hypocrisy you are talking about? In both cases there are people both damning and defending these types of design.
Hoya Destroyer
Member
The guy in the OP reinforces my opinion that Japanese develops design the best female characters, but the worst male ones.
When it comes to male characters, I prefer tough guys. That guy... does not look tough. lol
When it comes to male characters, I prefer tough guys. That guy... does not look tough. lol
This.
Female armour is usually based on actual female clothing. So when you put male characters in the same outfits, it's a little too jarring and odd.
If they want equal, they should have him in some shorts or something.
boiled goose
good with gravy
this to me seems to be a false equivocation
as mentioned, some guys like skimpy female armor and sexualization for a variety of reasons. I'm not defending it and of course there should be more varied and Extensive representation of female characters in games. but the justification for sexualization is appeal.
does this design really appeal to straight females? I'm curious
to be honest I don't think the design is particularly bad. Seems about the same as female armor to me... nothing unusual
if people are complaining that the abs are showing is impractical, then yeah...so is cleavage
as mentioned, some guys like skimpy female armor and sexualization for a variety of reasons. I'm not defending it and of course there should be more varied and Extensive representation of female characters in games. but the justification for sexualization is appeal.
does this design really appeal to straight females? I'm curious
to be honest I don't think the design is particularly bad. Seems about the same as female armor to me... nothing unusual
if people are complaining that the abs are showing is impractical, then yeah...so is cleavage
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
From my days in Frontier our guild / group was 50/50 with male / female JP players. The female players had a wide range of tastes in general with outfits. Though a lot of the time we all wore optimized sets for whatever serious quests we were doing. On not so serious ones is where you could see a larger difference in tastes / styles. Ranging from looking like actual armor to more skimpy sets. Reason why I knew the ratio is that we used Skype while playing. Think there was at least 30 of us on / off playing. Had not met everyone in the group thats why due to folks here in general being busy a lot of the time.
There are lots of other examples around the net too from female gamer bloggers to other things such as a popular manga / diary series released in Japan.
http://www.famitsu.com/guc/blog/mondeki/
YianGaruga
Banned
I'm shocked
Riposte
Member
In addition to that, there's a false equivalence even if someone is being "hypocritical". So maybe they prefer outlandish sexy armor designs on female characters more so than male ones, mainly in the heterosexual pandering sort of way (but by no means limited to that), to the point of making a post where they've supported an example of the former and vocalized their dislike of this one (worth mentioning that this sort of evidence is beyond what we given). Even in such a case, so what? The tumblr and several people would love to use that to bludgeon defenses of sexy female designs, but in the end they are just saying "I don't like this", not necessarily "I don't want this to exist" or "this is wrong" - something you can say for a tumblr dedicated to fighting bikini armor or the regular forum warriors. So, yes, in the worst case scenario, you find a double standard: some people are sexually attracted / aesthetically pleased by one gender, but not the other, and this influences their taste. It's questionable if they are talking about anything more than their tastes though.
Its no more shit than Dragons Crown, Senran Kagura, Onechanbara, Code of Princess etc.
The design may not be great but is very much in line with the kind of sexy armor female characters have been wearing since forever. The fact that they can sell a male character this way is pretty cool and progressive.
While I hate bikini armor because they just bad for breaking immersiveness, I never protest against their existence. Its impossible to make them disappear so for me just let them be, and praise the good example instead.
And threads about those games get the EXACT same kinds of posts, so what's the point in calling this one out?
Delusibeta
Banned
The argument in the blog highlighted by the OP hinges on the assumption that GAF is a hivemind. As we have demonstrated in this thread, that assumption is bollocks.
Garrett Hawke
Member
How many people who came into this thread or the other one and posted about how "badly designed" the outfit was also posted about how badly designed the bikini girl from MGSV is? And how many criticised this outfit but defended that "because she's in the desert it makes sense!!!!" (while the male player character stands beside her in full body gear)
Winterfang
Banned
This guy man, everything I see the picture I find new shit he is wearing. Like those giant coins protecting his elbows.
The design is dumb, but it is a final fantasy design. That is guarenteed to have loads of people shitting on it regardless. Vaan, in my opinion, was a much better sexualized design. At least it was practical. That being said, the armor looks better in-game than in the official art.
I think the stereotypical "female armor" gets a pass because that is what gamers are used to at this point. Generally people aren't going to flip their shit when Ivy is essentially just wearing censor bars because it has been going on for years to the point where it is a joke. I guess some people may defend the designs, either by the impracticality of most the designs in the game or they enjoy thoroughly masturbating to video games. Usually I don't see people saying "The designs in TittyWitch Secret Bosoms were really great". Actually, I think we are seeing more and more discussions on how insulting and tired those designs are getting. Which is good, because some games it can get embarrassing to play when the characters look like they came from a fantasy softcore porn.
I think the stereotypical "female armor" gets a pass because that is what gamers are used to at this point. Generally people aren't going to flip their shit when Ivy is essentially just wearing censor bars because it has been going on for years to the point where it is a joke. I guess some people may defend the designs, either by the impracticality of most the designs in the game or they enjoy thoroughly masturbating to video games. Usually I don't see people saying "The designs in TittyWitch Secret Bosoms were really great". Actually, I think we are seeing more and more discussions on how insulting and tired those designs are getting. Which is good, because some games it can get embarrassing to play when the characters look like they came from a fantasy softcore porn.
Wrong. People care about the skin on display in those games. Its not about being a good design.
Riposte
Member
Why don't you find out for us and post the results?