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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
- Start date
The coin flip sandwich board tally implies that 120'ish identical Bookers came through that point. They've killed a lot of Bookers already. Each interaction they have with you is the result of what they've learned from every other Booker.
The telegram in particular - they knew Booker would pick 77 regardless, as he likely had each other time. Telling him "whatever you do, do not..." tells him there's something wrong there, putting him in an enhanced state of awareness when he does. Perhaps that telegram is what keeps him from getting killed by guards.
GentlemanCrow
Member
Finished it last week. I reeeeeally loved the setting, story, characters, music and ideas. I felt the tears didn't go far enough. I wanted to trip through time periods and cray-cray worlds and for a short time thought that was where the game was going (Revenge of the Jedi 1983 tease). In the end it turned out to be smaller in scope. Hardly infinite. Still very entertaining but the game could have been world ending.
Really didn't like the gameplay on the whole, most of the shootouts felt like slogs rather than a challenge, just had to hide in a corner and shoot until the music stopped, basically.
I was playing it for the story which for the most part made up for the lackluster gameplay. Particularly towards the end the powering up seemed to mean very little and the choices you could make were rather pointless in the grand scheme of things considering that you could feel the game coming to a close and you were still getting level ups to assign.
Really wish it played with tears more.The basic combat tears were boring and pointless and the coinflip story tears were very basic. Here you have a ripple that can have anything in it and its a binary option? Please.
Plus didn't care for the black and white portrayal of the vox and Columbia forces.
Now the vox have gun they are bad wut?
Really didn't like the gameplay on the whole, most of the shootouts felt like slogs rather than a challenge, just had to hide in a corner and shoot until the music stopped, basically.
I was playing it for the story which for the most part made up for the lackluster gameplay. Particularly towards the end the powering up seemed to mean very little and the choices you could make were rather pointless in the grand scheme of things considering that you could feel the game coming to a close and you were still getting level ups to assign.
Really wish it played with tears more.The basic combat tears were boring and pointless and the coinflip story tears were very basic. Here you have a ripple that can have anything in it and its a binary option? Please.
Plus didn't care for the black and white portrayal of the vox and Columbia forces.
Now the vox have gun they are bad wut?
racist
An amazing game. Got mind fucked at the end. I will be thinking about it for ages, but I have questions.
Was there more than one ending after the credits? I got the one where he hears Anna crying, and goes into her bedroom. How can that be? She drowned him, thus ending all his alternate forms.
How does Bioshock 2 fit into this? Was the bird a big daddy? Is that why it was protecting her? Is that why it died at Rapture? If not, why did they even have it in the game? What was the point?
Are all new BS games going to start off the same? She said there always has to be a tower and a man. But I suppose she didnt say WHEN there is going to be a tower and a man.
Did all the Elizabeths fade away at the end? Or did one stay there after she drowned us? I cant remember.
Was there more than one ending after the credits? I got the one where he hears Anna crying, and goes into her bedroom. How can that be? She drowned him, thus ending all his alternate forms.
How does Bioshock 2 fit into this? Was the bird a big daddy? Is that why it was protecting her? Is that why it died at Rapture? If not, why did they even have it in the game? What was the point?
Are all new BS games going to start off the same? She said there always has to be a tower and a man. But I suppose she didnt say WHEN there is going to be a tower and a man.
Did all the Elizabeths fade away at the end? Or did one stay there after she drowned us? I cant remember.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Read the threat from the start, all your questions will be answered. There is only 1 after credits seen and it makes sense when you think about what happened to the timeline. Bioshock is just an alternate universe, though the bird is based on big daddy tech.
She only ended the Comstock timelines. That Booker is another timeline unaffected by the paradox. This is the sole after credits ending. There are no others.
Songbird was constructed presumably using some variation on Big Daddy tech. She pulled him into the Rapture timeline to kill him. Bioshock 2 only "fits into this" as another timeline with some other man and a lighthouse. The plot connections aren't any deeper than that.......for now. ;P
They all fade away.
HueyFreeman
Banned
It's actually one of the problems with infinites loot system - you're always looking at the ground for blinking lights when there's this gorgeous massive world in front and above you. I found on subsequent playthroughs there were huge details in the world I'd entirely missed - in many cases that tie well in to the narrative.
As for missing the songbirds death though - well that's a big extreme lol. It happens right away after she transports you there, and I think the devs hoped you'd be a little more invested in the story events at that point.
She don't have a moral compass. Baby-snatching might have just been a convenient excuse to convince Comstock to fund a machine to open tears so she could bring the male Lutece back.
Finally finished it. The story was good, I suppose. But at the end of the day, I couldn't help feeling like it was some kind of a mini-arc from "Fringe", completely with body part decapitation, 2 versions of the same self, and closing the loop by ending the original point.
That last part slightly bugs me though. Because I don't think the original point was the baptism. I think the original point or the cause of it all was the battle at Wounded Knee. It was the very point that caused Booker to feel guilty about his sins and seeking absolution. Due to this guilt, in one reality, he baptized himself into Comstock whereas in another reality, he just drinks himself stupid and gambling his life/family away.
So my question is, even if the baptism loop is stopped, what would stop Booker from drinking himself stupid and gambling till he broke and need to pay debts again? Or for that matter, what would the likelihood of Booker wanting to baptize himself again? If Elizabeth is no longer exist to drown him as the ending scene implies, then some Booker in another reality will probably get baptized again.
That last part slightly bugs me though. Because I don't think the original point was the baptism. I think the original point or the cause of it all was the battle at Wounded Knee. It was the very point that caused Booker to feel guilty about his sins and seeking absolution. Due to this guilt, in one reality, he baptized himself into Comstock whereas in another reality, he just drinks himself stupid and gambling his life/family away.
So my question is, even if the baptism loop is stopped, what would stop Booker from drinking himself stupid and gambling till he broke and need to pay debts again? Or for that matter, what would the likelihood of Booker wanting to baptize himself again? If Elizabeth is no longer exist to drown him as the ending scene implies, then some Booker in another reality will probably get baptized again.
The darker implication of the ending is that by causing Comstock to cease to exist, she's causing entire universes to cease to exist. This includes any universe where Comstock doesn't turn into a madman with a floating fortress, where he uses religion as a force for genuine good. The further back she goes, the more branches get destroyed. The less far back she goes, the more branches she has to destroy to ensure Comstock is stopped. The baptism was likely the happy medium.
For the second part, there's nothing stopping Booker from getting baptized a week later, becoming Abraham Wilkins, and following in Comstocks footsteps. You're entering the train of thought Rosalind had...everything that can happen has happened, is happening, and will happen. Undoing what they did is like trying to bring in the tide that will only go back out again.
In theory, in each of those timelines, if there's a probability a god-like being is created, a god like being is created. If there's a chance that god-like being can succeed over their oppressors, they succeed. If there's a chance that success means drowning their oppressor and causing themselves to cease to exist, that too occurs.
But infinity minus a determinate number is still infinity, so no loss.
Same rationale could be used to explain why it isn't worth stopping Comstock at all. So he succeeds and future Liz razes a finite number of worlds. That only accounts for 0.0% of all worlds. It's not like our Liz really saved anyone. She caused the people that would be killed to cease to exist. They now roam whatever void people who used to exist go to once they can't exist.
TrackerTrem
Neo Member
I hope the DLC's have more tear parts..I wanted to go like back to past, the future, and to more alternate realities. That was the best part of the game to me
I didn't miss his death.
Finished Infinite yesterday, and enjoyed it despite a few issues:
1. Played on Hard, and it was a decent challenge but with two RIDICULOUS difficulty spikes compared to the rest of the game. The first was in the vault against Elizabeth's ghost mother. Bosses that constantly resurrect their felled minions are annoying enough, but I found myself by chance with totally inadequate weapons to fight her/them. The odds were pretty overwhelming, so any damage I did to her was reset back to full health when I inevitably died. Finally changed tactics and sniped her with a carbine from behind the circular vault door after wasting about 3,000 silver eagles on being resurrected. Took half an hour of grind and waiting for Elizabeth to magically find more bullets for me. I'm sure this is not the way the game designers intended it.
The second spike was the final 'defend the core' airship battle. Jesus, this was annoying on Hard. In the end I got so pissed off with it I dropped the difficulty down a notch and finished on Medium. Was sorry to do this after playing 99% of the game on Hard, but it was ruining my overall experience.
2. Too much scavenging. As others have said, it's easy to miss the beauty of the world around you when you are constantly rooting through barrels and bins.
3. I was disappointed how FPS-heavy the gameplay was. Not every game needs to be a COD homage.
Overall I definitely prefer Bioshock (better atmosphere, characters, art direction and story) but Infinite was still a great game.
1. Played on Hard, and it was a decent challenge but with two RIDICULOUS difficulty spikes compared to the rest of the game. The first was in the vault against Elizabeth's ghost mother. Bosses that constantly resurrect their felled minions are annoying enough, but I found myself by chance with totally inadequate weapons to fight her/them. The odds were pretty overwhelming, so any damage I did to her was reset back to full health when I inevitably died. Finally changed tactics and sniped her with a carbine from behind the circular vault door after wasting about 3,000 silver eagles on being resurrected. Took half an hour of grind and waiting for Elizabeth to magically find more bullets for me. I'm sure this is not the way the game designers intended it.
The second spike was the final 'defend the core' airship battle. Jesus, this was annoying on Hard. In the end I got so pissed off with it I dropped the difficulty down a notch and finished on Medium. Was sorry to do this after playing 99% of the game on Hard, but it was ruining my overall experience.
2. Too much scavenging. As others have said, it's easy to miss the beauty of the world around you when you are constantly rooting through barrels and bins.
3. I was disappointed how FPS-heavy the gameplay was. Not every game needs to be a COD homage.
Overall I definitely prefer Bioshock (better atmosphere, characters, art direction and story) but Infinite was still a great game.
That's also the reason the code to the lighthouse is 122.
Waldo Lydecker
Member
Finished the game yesterday.
I can see why some folks really adored it and were thrilled by it.
Personally it never clicked with me. I can absolutely see it's merits: the gorgeous world of Columbia, beautifully crafted, the brilliant production values and the really nice graphics.
But the story never did it for me. Like someone said it already, it's delivery was very uneven with a big chunk of it dropped on you at the very end. I also found it too far-fetched with all those multi timelines, and in my opinion the game had a bit of a 'look how smart we are'-attitude, a bit like the movie Inception which I also didn't like so it is a bit of a personal problem of mine. I also hated the little scenes with the Luteces.
So in the end I absolutely prefer the first Bioshock and Bioshock's 2 Minerva Den (which I found to be amazing!). I prefer it's story, characters but also it's gameplay. I personally prefered the plasmids above the vigors, I really liked the narrow corridors more than the great open spaces of Infinite, which battles were a bit arena-based. The gameplay was a bit too much like walking past a certain point, alarm some enemies, walk into a small space and waiting for them and killing them while waiting when the music would stop. And walking around looking for those shining objects to pick up wasn't also ideal. And I absolutely prefer the 'Circus of Values' machines above those things in Columbia.
But credit where it's due: the sound of the songbird present in Bioshock 1 is absolutely mind-blowing!
Some other players around who share my feelings?
ps like someone else said in a topic, the story told in this game didn't fit a FPS that great, and maybe could benefit more in a point-and-click adventure, although nobody buys them anymore unfortunately...
I can see why some folks really adored it and were thrilled by it.
Personally it never clicked with me. I can absolutely see it's merits: the gorgeous world of Columbia, beautifully crafted, the brilliant production values and the really nice graphics.
But the story never did it for me. Like someone said it already, it's delivery was very uneven with a big chunk of it dropped on you at the very end. I also found it too far-fetched with all those multi timelines, and in my opinion the game had a bit of a 'look how smart we are'-attitude, a bit like the movie Inception which I also didn't like so it is a bit of a personal problem of mine. I also hated the little scenes with the Luteces.
So in the end I absolutely prefer the first Bioshock and Bioshock's 2 Minerva Den (which I found to be amazing!). I prefer it's story, characters but also it's gameplay. I personally prefered the plasmids above the vigors, I really liked the narrow corridors more than the great open spaces of Infinite, which battles were a bit arena-based. The gameplay was a bit too much like walking past a certain point, alarm some enemies, walk into a small space and waiting for them and killing them while waiting when the music would stop. And walking around looking for those shining objects to pick up wasn't also ideal. And I absolutely prefer the 'Circus of Values' machines above those things in Columbia.
But credit where it's due: the sound of the songbird present in Bioshock 1 is absolutely mind-blowing!
Some other players around who share my feelings?
ps like someone else said in a topic, the story told in this game didn't fit a FPS that great, and maybe could benefit more in a point-and-click adventure, although nobody buys them anymore unfortunately...
I actually started playing this last night, since I never got around to playing through it. I'm finding it hard to go back. In comparison to Infinite it feels really slow, like you're walking though waist-deep mud (I get you're supposed to be a lumbering Big Daddy, still feels slow). The mouse movement is also pretty shitty even after doing a "fix" on PC.
The weirdest thing, though, is I don't remember the AI being so...dumb. I'm playing on hard and I keep running into Splicers who just stand there while I unload into them. Most of my time so far has been spent rolling around with two security bots (I forgot how bizarre they look animating at 30 fps while everything else moves at 60) which clear out everything for me. I also forgot how much I hated the Defend Little Sister While They Harvest stuff.
Cool to be back in Rapture, though.
Edit: Also, does anyone remember if there was an issue with the sound, specifically with the weapons? The laser, in particular, sounds like a file is missing or something.
Waldo Lydecker
Member
Minerva's Den was absolutely the high point of Bioshock 2, which I found to be rather pointless, being a rehash of Bioshock. Everyone should play Minerva's Den however, great little story.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I encountered the audio issue on 360. In both the DLC and the main game.
I didn't encounter any AI issues however, the AI on 360 was decent, not as good as that in Infinite, but they didn't stand around waiting to be blasted to death.
The Librarian
Banned
I'm re-playing when I have time. It's good, but the combat is very clunky and the sound design is way off. Rivet Gun feels so weak.
Waldo Lydecker
Member
Is it actually worth to play System Shock? It is a game I've never played and I really read a lot of people opinions saying it is the best shock game.
That's a shame. The sound in general seems to be lacking. I'll have to search around to see if there's an actual fix.
As for the AI, it's probably overstating it to say they "just stand there" but they really don't do much once engaged. They may move a bit, and certainly they fire back, but the laser sort of seems to just freeze and waste them. Maybe that's by design but it's a little too over-powered if so. The Spider Splicers still do their leap to the floor leap to the ceiling bit.
I'm going to finish it this time as I've heard so many good things about it.
Estocolmo
Member
This. I felt the same thing about the previous Bioshock games and I have always felt like the only person in the universe that thinks this is annoying. Its a game breaker, constantly thinking where to search for a nickle or some ammo. It makes the game less good when you enter an area and begin to search for loot instead of concentrating on the surrounding area.
Yeah, that's really annoying. I wish there were fewer places to search through, holding more things inside of them.
For some reason the food thing felt a lot more weird in this one, too. I guess because Booker was a proper character and not mostly a blank slate for you to project yourself into. When Booker finds an entire birthday cake in a garbage can and eats it, it stands out.
Someone should make a patch where every instance where Booker eats something, you hear loud obnoxious eating noises.
Estocolmo
Member
There are some very few places in the game that doesnt contain any loot, and that is only in the end of the game. Even in the story related parts in the beginning or the middle of the game has loot, which just takes away the beauty of some parts when you know you have to search the place like a homeless...
What they should have done is that you can walk over bodies and pick up items as you go. And they should have done the same thing in Bioshocks.
I don't see why featuring a more "intelligent" narrative is necessarily a bad thing. Might be just me, but besides Kojima and a few other developers, there's a real lack of narrative depth in this industry.
Say what you want about Infinite's narrative, but to me, it had quite alot of depth and just general intelligence behind it. Quantum Mechanics and Multiverses are an easy thing to dig a hole for yourself narrative wise, and the fact that Levine tied it up without no plot holes whatsoever is quite a feat in it's own right.
Also, it's fiction, science fiction no less, so I don't see how it's any more so far fetched than say a city under the water, or a city in the sky. It's all about imagination, and where you allow it to take you.
The food thing wasn't as weird in the original because Rapture was populated by actually insane people. Things had a reason to be scavenged and hidden. In Infinite, there is no reason for a well-to-do family to fill their pantry with cigarettes and bullets and stash their bananas and liquor in garbage cans.
There were also a lot of crates and things that were supposed to be smuggled contraband and stuff and it makes a certain amount of sense for them to be full of random stuff.
Oooh, I definitely disagree with the bolded. If not plotholes, then there are definitely areas where questions can be raised. The multiverses themselves weren't that bad, but the notion that choices create branches and the entire time travel stuff...didn't think it was that clean of a story at all. Unless someone really wants me to take another go about 'em, I'm just gonna let opinions be opinions.
As much as the scavenging sucked, it was kind of needed. It gave us something to do as we walked from A to B. It slowed the player down, and allowed Liz to talk about the world. Without it, most players would just sprint through the maps and miss even more of the story.
I'm torn because I get the complaints about content and form not really meshing, and normally I'd be all for that, but I really really enjoyed the combat in Infinite. I'm okay with it despite being telegraphed by tears and only loosely justified by the story.
The scavenging could have been cleaned up. At least have objects appear where you'd expect them to. Let me search pantries for food, not buckets and suitcases. If I find a wallet in the garbage, I want to know the reason it's there.
The scavenging could have been cleaned up. At least have objects appear where you'd expect them to. Let me search pantries for food, not buckets and suitcases. If I find a wallet in the garbage, I want to know the reason it's there.
Yeah the scavenging just felt out of place - and maybe it was just me but the random selection felt the strangest since Skyrim : just really out of place loot / location combinations.
The FPS centric gameplay was a real shame for me. The whole style of the game really cried out for more - and TBH the more I played the more I struggled with the growing gulf between the themes coming to light around violence and relevant actions vs gameplay that positively encouraged violence. Not in a prudish way but it for me the game in the end crossed a tipping point where the dissonance overrode my ability to accept it.
I'd have loved more sparse use of combat mixed with other gameplay mechanics and approaches - more talking/stealth/options in the vein of say Deus Ex would have fitted the game better IMHO.
Infinite really felt a lot more violent to me than BioShock 1. Stuff like tearing people's heads off, breaking their necks, burning them down to their skeletons, watching them blow their own heads off after you possess them. It was a bit much. I miss the simple elegance of my wrench.
Yah that's what I felt. The setting of Bioshock 1 ironically would have been more acceptable for the level of violence in Infinite - no normal people left at all just madly twisted insane hybrids.
For me playing Infinite was a bit like watching say Paths of Glory by Kubrick, except all the battles scenes had been removed and replaced with high action instead - it just felt that schizophrenic to me.
the answer is no. the fiction allows only a certain number of comstocks, and you kill them all.
you may disagree with the fiction, however the fiction is sound in its rules.
The Librarian
Banned
Got a question. What exactly is the siphon? What did it do? How far is its range?
A good poster
Banned
Siphon contained Elizabeth's powers, so she doesn't go God mode from early on. Not sure about its range.
Those other Comstock's still cease to exist. Their paradox wasn't a strict "my creation traveled back in time" type paradox, but more of a "a version of me who I share a common ancestor with had a creation travel back in time" type. At that moment before the baptism, any Comstock who built Columbia or any Comstock who simply started a dance troupe were in the same body.
It's range is not specified. I'll go on a limb and guess that it only covers the length of Columbia. It's purpose was to inhibit Liz.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
I'm always annoyed when games give you a prompt that performs something other than what is says. Like in LA Noire when you're questioning a rape victim, you choose "Doubt", and Cole starts screaming at them like a lunatic, when really you just wanted him to pry a bit.
I was similarly disappointed when I chose to "Interfere" between Comstock shaking Elizabeth, and the next thing I know I'm bashing his head against a bird bath before drowning the bastard.
But after the ending I didn't mind that so much, because it makes sense in this context. We keep being told that Booker has this dark side that he can't overcome, and of course in some universes that manifests itself into Comstock. That prompt, as well as other violent sections helped make that seem more believable. I, as Booker, couldn't control my violent actions. It adds validity to the backstory.