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[PedroLumpy]

Whoa, consoles had custom maps, mods and custom textures? WHERE CAN I PLAY THIS, YOU MAGICAL WIZARD?

Well Halo has a map editor.....

Well, ignoring that those map packs are sold on PC too, consider that it is actually technically possible that all the TF2 maps could be put into the console version. So while, yes I understand that pretty much no console game has ever had that sort of freedom, it is someones decision that is limiting consoles in this way.

 

[Tallshortman]

About 270 million dollars on map packs alone, for one game, damn! I wonder how much money Activision have made on the whole CoD serie.

Just look at how much money they make in a fiscal year and subtract Blizzard's contribution. I would guess the only game that even made a profit other they BLOPS is war for cybertron. It's pretty insane how they've put all their eggs into the CoD basket. You'd think they would diversify and try some new IPs that aren't shit.

 

[Grinchy]

hahaha paying for maps hahaha

*goes back to TF2 with free stuff almost every day*

Translation:
*goes back to TF2 knowing I could play for free but I will buy virtual goods anyway*

Spoiler

That's me

 

[oneils]

Back in my day map packs were community made and showcased the level designers of tomorrow. Today they're a commodity to help shareholders pad their pockets. I can't believe people are willing to pay that much for a few maps, it really does show how little an idea kids these days have about the value of money.

I think I understand this sentiment. However, paying 60 bucks for a game and 14 maps, and then another 60 bucks for another 15 maps or so does not seem to be terrible value if you play the game for hundreds and hundreds (heck, even thousands) of hours.

The people who buy these maps actually use them, from what I can tell. I've probably played CS:S for a total of 300 plus hours. However I've only played on about 5 or 6 maps tops. Regardless of all the free maps out there.

 

[Chavelo]

Well Halo has a map editor.....

Well, ignoring that those map packs are sold on PC too, consider that it is actually technically possible that all the TF2 maps could be put into the console version. So while, yes I understand that pretty much no console game has ever had that sort of freedom, it is someones decision that is limiting consoles in this way.

So why the hell are you talking about player freedom and customization being taken away? Have you touched a PC before?

 

[shintoki]

Pretty much. Maybe there are a few instances of COD having a negative influence on other series, but it's completely easy to avoid the series and it's copycats altogether. The time spent wallowing in the misery caused by COD's success could be spent purchasing and playing a game like Red Orchestra 2 that does things the right way.

I can understand disdain for the series completely. It was basically the nail in the coffin to many classical shooters like Unreal or Quake. We may never get another large budget attempt again.

But there have been plenty of titles which have been fantastic to me. L4D, Killing Floor, Team Fortress 2, Shadowrun, Shattered Horizon, Quake Live, and a few others. Upcoming we have Tribes Ascension, RO2, Firefall, and a few others that look like they can be fantastic and unique.

There is plenty out there as long as you are willing to look. They may not be the leaders of the industry anymore, but its out there.

 

[oneils]

Right. It's horrible. Something should be done about it! But where do we start?

I'm thinking like forming a street team in the local neighbourhood or something. Print up some flyers to hand out to all the parents around the schools, showing them there's other options.

One kid won't make a difference but maybe with an organised effort and some Steam accounts for everyone we could get enough of them into it at the same time to make a splash. Especially now that TF2 is free to play, that could help with buy in. I'd even go as far as pointing out that $15 for 4 new zombie maps is pretty weak in comparison to Left 4 Dead 2 receiving like what 10 new campaigns since release including all the ported ones from L4D1? Shit goes on sale all the time too.

I might not work but it'd be a start, better than doing nothing.

I dunno, I like me some peer pressure. Without peer pressure how the heck was I supposed to convince my grandmother to buy an NES way back when? You are basically talking about doing away with the toy industry.

 

[Snuggles]

I can understand disdain for the series completely. It was basically the nail in the coffin to many classical shooters like Unreal or Quake. We may never get another large budget attempt again.

But there have been plenty of titles which have been fantastic to me. L4D, Killing Floor, Team Fortress 2, Shadowrun, Shattered Horizon, Quake Live, and a few others. Upcoming we have Tribes Ascension, RO2, Firefall, and a few others that look like they can be fantastic and unique.

There is plenty out there as long as you are willing to look. They may not be the leaders of the industry anymore, but its out there.

Exactly. If COD's success is harming the games you play, then maybe it's time to broaden your horizons. Creativity might not be thriving in the mainstream, but in the digital age we have more options than ever.

 

[PedroLumpy]

So why the hell are you talking about player freedom and customization being taken away? Have you touched a PC before?

Well, it does happen on the PC. If your point is that consoles never really had it to start with, I agree. But you know, at least hypothetically, things don't have to be like that.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Alright, you guys seem to to be missing the point. It's not about some value proposition $10 vs $15, or supply and demand or whatever.

What used to happen is that games like this would be open to the community. So you'd play some game, and you would have a ton of dedicated fans working tirelessly to make the game better for you and everyone else for free. Through maps, or mods, texture, models whatever. Companies took this away (and it's not like it's Activision alone here) so that they could sell you maps. So now you don't get free maps, you don't get mods, you don't get different game modes or whatever else.

So while yes, spending $15 bucks on some game you've thrown over a hundred hours into may seemingly make sense. But you're not taking into account what you have lost in the process of them creating this new marketplace where they can sell you a couple maps every few months.

So when the people in here go 'fuck this gen' and weep, while it's perhaps a little melodramatic, it's because you guys are completely not understanding the issue. We want you to understand that you guys effectively had a shit ton of awesome stolen away from you, and they're charging you money to do it, and you're all like 'fuck this is awesome'.

They didn't steal shit from me.

I got several maps and weapons in TF2. For free. (I don't really have to mention every Valve game, right?)

I got a completely redone game in Witcher: Enhanced Edition. For free.

I got Last Stand as a new game mode in Dawn of War 2. For free.

I got a level editor and custom levels in Super Meat Boy and VVVVVV. For free.

I got game modes, motorcycles etc. in Burnout Paradise. For free.

 

[stuminus3]

I dunno, I like me some peer pressure. Without peer pressure how the heck was I supposed to convince my grandmother to buy an NES way back when? You are basically talking about doing away with the toy industry.

My mate Paul begged his Mum for months and months to buy him Megatron for Christmas when he was a kid because eveyone was into Transformers. She mistakenly went out and bought him Megadon the robot dog. Which wasn't a Transformer at all. Worst Christmas ever, scarred him for life I think. We mentioned it at his wedding and he was nearly in tears.

A cautionary tale for the whole videogame industry, I think.

 

[Chavelo]

They didn't steal shit from me.

I got several maps and weapons in TF2. For free. (I don't really have to mention every Valve game, right?)

I got a completely redone game in Witcher: Enhanced Edition. For free.

I got Last Stand as a new game mode in Dawn of War 2. For free.

I got a level editor and custom levels in Super Meat Boy and VVVVVV. For free.

I got game modes, motorcycles etc. in Burnout Paradise. For free.

"Fuck, this is awesome"

 

[PedroLumpy]

They didn't steal shit from me.

I got several maps and weapons in TF2. For free. (I don't really have to mention every Valve game, right?)

I got a completely redone game in Witcher: Enhanced Edition. For free.

I got Last Stand as a new game mode in Dawn of War 2. For free.

I got a level editor and custom levels in Super Meat Boy and VVVVVV. For free.

I got game modes, motorcycles etc. in Burnout Paradise. For free.

Uhh, yeah. Obviously I was talking about the COD map pack stuff. But you're right, all that stuff is awesome. And Burnout is a great example of how things could be on consoles.

 

[Cheech]

Does anyone know how much BLOPS sold on the 360 versus the PS3?

Nobody knows exact figures, but it's like:

Xbox
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PC
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PS3

 

[Dresden]

CODBLOPS was pretty fun, although I was getting tired of the COD4 formula by then.

 

[Emitan]

This thread is a carnival of stupidity. Everywhere I look there's someone saying something even more ridiculous than the last.

popcorn.gif

Spoiler

I think every CoD since MW is a terrible piece of shit, but people will spend their money on stuff I hate no matter how much I yell at them to stop. Just go on with your lives

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to playing games I enjoy.

 

[DatBreh]

Alright, you guys seem to to be missing the point. It's not about some value proposition $10 vs $15, or supply and demand or whatever.

What used to happen is that games like this would be open to the community. So you'd play some game, and you would have a ton of dedicated fans working tirelessly to make the game better for you and everyone else for free. Through maps, or mods, texture, models whatever. Companies took this away (and it's not like it's Activision alone here) so that they could sell you maps. So now you don't get free maps, you don't get mods, you don't get different game modes or whatever else.

So while yes, spending $15 bucks on some game you've thrown over a hundred hours into may seemingly make sense. But you're not taking into account what you have lost in the process of them creating this new marketplace where they can sell you a couple maps every few months.

So when the people in here go 'fuck this gen' and weep, while it's perhaps a little melodramatic, it's because you guys are completely not understanding the issue. We want you to understand that you guys effectively had a shit ton of awesome stolen away from you, and they're charging you money to do it, and you're all like 'fuck this is awesome'.

Well just because you used to get something for free doesnt mean that a price of 10 bucks is too much.

And exactly what is your point in the last paragraph. You want people to sit around and mope instead of spending a small amount of money to play a game they enjoy?

 

[Uno Venova]

20 dollar map packs here we come.

 

[Emitan]

Well just because you used to get something for free doesnt mean that a price of 10 bucks is too much

That's a terrible argument. It's always been free but suddenly getting ripped off is ok, too?

 

[PedroLumpy]

Well just because you used to get something for free doesnt mean that a price of 10 bucks is too much.

And exactly what is your point in the last paragraph. You want people to sit around and mope instead of spending a small amount of money to play a game they enjoy?

Well, it could be too much for some people, everyone sets that for themselves. My point would be that people made their value judgment not fully understanding what was happening.

Well, the point of the last paragraph I guess is that perhaps you could have had more, if people didn't buy into the current model. Obviously I realize that boat has sailed, but perhaps that helps explain all the fuck this gen stuff.

 

[bwtw]

That's a terrible argument. It's always been free but suddenly getting ripped off is ok, too?

It previously being free doesn't mean it's value to someone was nothing. If someone values something at $20, anything below that is still worth paying, regardless of what the price used to be. Why is it being 'ripped off' to pay for something which you think is worth paying for at the price? Just because the price has gone up?

 

[flyinpiranha]

That's a terrible argument. It's always been free but suddenly getting ripped off is ok, too?

It's a very valid argument. And getting "ripped off" is completely anecdotal and a personal thing. If somebody feels what they're getting is worth it, then they aren't getting ripped off. Buyers remorse happens when you feel "ripped off".

I PC game AND console game ... Oh lawd, praise be to free map packs but show me the light as I'm torn asunder between two mediums that I enjoy.

 

[The Antitype]

How dare they enjoy this game that they enjoy and then pay the developers for content that makes it remain enjoyable for longer. Damn them all to hell.

I like you.

Seriously. I bought all the map packs for CoD4 and MW2. I was tired of the CoD formula by Black Ops, so I didn't buy any map packs for it (or even keep playing it til the map packs came out).

But vilifying consumers for voting with their dollars and buying something they enjoy is fucking pathetic.

It's like some nerd declaring 'How dare those attractive women continue to show affection for those good-looking, charismatic, rich men!! They should love me instead!'

 

[DatBreh]

That's a terrible argument. It's always been free but suddenly getting ripped off is ok, too?

If i get a steak for free every week then one day im asked to pay a dollar is that a ripoff?

 

[x3sphere]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Once CounterStrike: Global Offensive is released, it will overtake Call of Duty and once again be the number 1 multiplayer first person shooter.

Not sure if serious. But anyway, as much as I love Valve I can't see it happening, CS:GO looks like more of an experiment than anything else.

 

[ScepticMatt]

*sigh*

Spoiler

What have we become?

 

[The Xtortionist]

20 dollar map packs here we come.

Who cares; I can get more value out of a $15-$20 map pack than a lot of $60 dollar games that last 8 hours and have shit/no multiplayer.

 

[K' Dash]

I like Zombies, and that's it.

I'm not buying resurrection tho.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

AwfulanalogiesGAF unite!

 

[Riddick]

If i get a steak for free every week then one day im asked to pay a dollar is that a ripoff?

If you get a free steak with every meal and suddenly some restaurants in your area decide to stop the offer then yeah I'd be pissed off at the idiots that still support these restaurants because that encourages the rest to stop offering the free steak too. Especially if the steak cost 15 fucking dollars and the morons still bought it I'd be very pissed off.

 

[Uno Venova]

Who cares; I can get more value out of a $15-$20 map pack than a lot of $60 dollar games that last 8 hours and have shit/no multiplayer.

You must be buying some shit 8 hour games.

 

[Absinthe]

Wow, everyone comparing console games to how pc games work/worked is getting ridiculous.

To my knowledge there have been very few if any free dlc content for console FPS's. Only game I can think of is BFBC2 where they gave you the first dlc free but only if you bought the game new.

When the PS3 and Xbox360 first came out this discussion of paid dlc was mulled over numerous times. Fact is, console dlc costs money, it's not COD's fault, it's just the way things are.

Don't like it don't buy it, but stop the BS of comparing console games to PC's games and how the dlc is handled on each because they're not the same and never will be no matter how much we want them to.

 

[flyinpiranha]

If you get a free steak with every meal and suddenly some restaurants in your area decide to stop the offer then yeah I'd be pissed off at the idiots that still support these restaurants because that encourages the rest to stop offering the free steak too. Especially if the steak cost 15 fucking dollars and the morons still bought it I'd be very pissed off.

But I like steak. And I have $15.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

Call of Duty is now a hobby on its own.

 

[Riddick]

But I like steak. And I have $15.

And I have a thousand dollars and I like gum. Let's buy a gum for a thousand dollars!

 

[Glass Rebel]

If you get a free steak with every meal and suddenly some restaurants in your area decide to stop the offer then yeah I'd be pissed off at the idiots that still support these restaurants because that encourages the rest to stop offering the free steak too. Especially if the steak cost 15 fucking dollars and the morons still bought it I'd be very pissed off.

Well yeah, it costs 50+ million $ to make all those meals now.

 

[DatBreh]

If you get a free steak with every meal and suddenly some restaurants in your area decide to stop the offer then yeah I'd be pissed off at the idiots that still support these restaurants because that encourages the rest to stop offering the free steak too. Especially if the steak cost 15 fucking dollars and the morons still bought it I'd be very pissed off.

Thats because steak to you has a value of less than 15 bucks (thats a mediocre steak btw). For some of us just because the steak was free does not mean that the value of the steak to us was zero. If I ate the steak and determined it was a great steak comparable to 30 buck steaks elsewhere then as long as the new price is below 30 then i cant consider it a ripoff.

Just saw you gum comment and now i see you have no idea about personal value.

 

[The Xtortionist]

You must be buying some shit 8 hour games.

What does that have to do with anything.

 

[Riddick]

Well yeah, it costs 50+ million $ to make all those meals now.

I doubt trash like COD cost 50 million dollars. I bet the marketing to convince dudebros to buy this crap costs many times more than development.

 

[Satchel]

Last (and only) CoD I bought a map pack for was CoD4. Don't play them online enough to be worth it.

But played the SHIT out of MW.

 

[Uno Venova]

What does that have to do with anything.

Shit 8 hour games don't have much value, amazing 8 hour games on the other hand.

 

[Riddick]

Thats because steak to you has a value of less than 15 bucks (thats a mediocre steak btw). For some of us just because the steak was free does not mean that the value of the steak to us was zero. If I ate the steak and determined it was a great steak comparable to 30 buck steaks elsewhere then as long as the new price is below 30 then i cant consider it a ripoff.

Just saw you gum comment and now i see you have no idea about personal value.

Personal value is the excuse suckers use when they get ripped off. Personal value doesn't excuse getting ripped off, we live in a free market society and there's always a better value alternative for every ripoff. Afterall we're talking about COD here which makes the excuse even worse since there are many better value as well as better quality alternatives.

 

[Cheech]

Personal value is the excuse suckers use when they get ripped off. Personal value doesn't excuse getting ripped off, we live in a free market society and there's always a better value alternative for every ripoff. Afterall we're talking about COD here which makes the excuse even worse since there are many better value as well as better quality alternatives.

Not to the people who buy these map packs. Value is not an objective concept, it's 100% subjective.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Un"Fucking"Real

Jesus, that is absurd @_@ amount of cash being made

Now they got that paid subscription feature...GOOD LORD

You know who will really get hit, other shooters trying the me too project/COD clone (get that piece of the pie)

Think about at this way, COD players are rabid (with the way they make purchases on the crazy editions + map packs), if somehow COD Elite became a feature with crazy amount of swag given to their members, and they charge even $9.99/monthly, you know at least 2mil+ will sign up, over a year = $120 - 2 brand new games not bought/looked at, etc.

My cousins, have bought 0 shit from PSN store (almost 1 year with their ps3). Since CODBLOPS dropped they spent their allowance on those map packs, I think they are up to 3, waiting on the 4th. They play nothing else but COD (occasionally Batman/Superhero or Racing game, but COD is there mainstay)

I asked my cousins why, they are like "friends in high school have it, cheap (which made me go ly down for a few minutes), and I got my money's worth). I can't be mad at them, they are the new generation, they have accustomed to the new norm that is the $15 map packs, $5 horse armor, $5 character unlock keys, $5 100kb unlock files

Older gamers are becoming like their parents (talking 25+), resourceful, trying to get their money's worth with the best deal in hand. Reviews, impressions, information gathering before purchase is key to validate the price at hand, not many DAY 1 out of the blue.

The newer generation has grown up paying for XBox Live (w/e the price, $60/year is their standard), they do care where their money goes, but sometimes it is spent foolishly, or either is concentrated to a category that they feel justified in for purchasing.

I can't wait to see MW3 and what the hell it brings to the table...and that COD: Iron Wolf Treyarch is working on...my god

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Personal value is the excuse suckers use when they get ripped off. Personal value doesn't excuse getting ripped off, we live in a free market society and there's always a better value alternative for every ripoff. Afterall we're talking about COD here which makes the excuse even worse since there are many better value as well as better quality alternatives.

So you never eat out and make your own clothes, right?

Videogames are a complete luxury. Acting like people are "suckers" for spending their own money on things they like is stupid. Have some perspective. There are plenty of people that thing simply owning a console/gaming PC is a complete waste of time and money and makes you a sucker. Stop thinking you know better than anyone else, especially when it comes to something as trivial as videogames. We aren't talking about the pharmaceutical industry raising the price of medicine here. It's fuckin map packs.

 

[Deadbeat]

Free weekend for blackops on steam.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Personal value is the excuse suckers use when they get ripped off. Personal value doesn't excuse getting ripped off, we live in a free market society and there's always a better value alternative for every ripoff. Afterall we're talking about COD here which makes the excuse even worse since there are many better value as well as better quality alternatives.

So instead of spending 15$ on a map pack that will give me tens of hours of enjoyment I should spend 30$ on Red Orchestra 2 which I'll play for an hour and put away?

Hypothetically speaking of course, I play neither.

 

[Optimus Lime]

I always find these threads really interesting, because of just how polarized opinions become. I loved CoD/2/3/4, tolerated World At War, didn't much care for MW2, and didn't like Blops - so, I'm not a huge fan of the series anymore. That being said...

CoD's success is so controversial in gaming circles, I think, because it challenges our identity as gamers in a way that has never been done before in quite the same way. CoD is a game which is played by people who don't particularly like games - you don't get those kinds of sales figures by appealing to the usual suspects. You need to appeal to the people who play one game, and who see gaming as the console marketplace as an extension of the wider entertainment industry (including film, television etc.)

But, at the same time, it IS a video game, and gaming is notoriously tribal, territorial, and volatile. So, there are 'immigrants' who have colonised gaming through titles like CoD and WoW, and through their massive buying power, have rewritten the rules of how the economic models of gaming will operate, how the social models of gaming will operate, and how gaming is culturally codified.

The problem with THAT is that you have the old guard of gaming 'natives' who really resist all of these changes that are completely out of control, in a sector of their lives which was appealing BECAUSE of their ability to control it. When gaming was for 'gaming hobbyists', we did have mods, independent content, shareware, and a more personal element - stuff like Carmack's .plan file, or the love/hate relationship with Romero. The industry is now radically different, and the tribal element of gaming has roared to the surface around things like Cod - the 'hardcore' vs. 'casual' split and so on. What it really is, is a way of identifying as a member of gaming's original wave of pioneers, versus the new audience of (equally valid) players, who have unwittingly altered the configuration of the gaming landscape.

The solution, I guess, is to amplify your love of the perennial elements of what gaming was. It isn't dead, guys. CoD is a monolith, but you don't HAVE to play it. Give Tripwire your money. Or Taleworlds. Play Quake Live and tell people about it. The anger towards CoD has you identifying the wrong enemy, though. CoD isn't the problem - CoD is the gaming equivalent of Dylan going electric. It is just a part of a new evolutionary wave, and represents the point where the hobby has become a component of wider multimodal culture.

Keep it as a hobby wherever you can, and I'll see some of you on the RO2 servers.

 

[Mechazawa]

Dat COD haterade.

GOES. DOWN. SMOOTH.

 

[DatBreh]

Personal value is the excuse suckers use when they get ripped off. Personal value doesn't excuse getting ripped off, we live in a free market society and there's always a better value alternative for every ripoff. Afterall we're talking about COD here which makes the excuse even worse since there are many better value as well as better quality alternatives.

Better to you. Who are you to tell anyone they should like another game instead of CoD?

Its quite evident you dont like CoD so even 3 bucks for a map pack would be a rip off to you.