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Black Panther would be declared as a racist movie if the Director wouldn't be black
- Thread starter Starfield
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mortal
Gold Member
God help us all.Don't worry, Captain Marvel will be along soon.
Boss Mog
Member
The fact that this movie won the SAG award for best cast and is nominated for best picture at the oscars is beyond pathetic. It goes to show that that nothing but "wokeness" matters. I mean this movie wouldn't even be on the podium of the best superhero movies. It's literally 'Think this movie is the best ever or you're a racist".
llien
Member
"Black Panther—which Slate described as 'the most feminist superhero movie yet'—is about the hereditary monarch of a monoracial ethno-state that keeps immigrants at bay with a high-tech border wall and faces no economic slowdown because of it."
Luffytubby
Member
Cultural Appropriation are different things depending on who you are talking to.
There is a school of thought that says that other cultures shouldn't mix like they have in the past. Like white people wearing Kimonos at a Japanese history museum. That, is the belief that that is a fetishization of a different culture as something "exotic" (foreign and different) and even if that fetishization is positive is condescending. When a person wears the symbols, traditions and customs of another, that person is stealing it or misusing it. Particularly if the person is remixing it, not understanding it fully. Halloween and Cosplay costumes of characters from other ethnicities or cultures are a good example.
Then there is another school about cultural appropriation which doesn't mind that other cultures use each others customs, only when they then can become more succesful with it or steal it in a way that maks people think that the person appropriating the culture came up with it. An example of that would be Macklemore beating Kendrick Lamar for a hiphop reward at the MTV-whatever. The idea is that Macklemore is so retarded and beneath the level of Kendrick that there is no way to look at this without thinking that Macklemore (as a white dude) aped the historical sound and voice of Kendrick and his people, and then beat him at the fuckfest.
Now, I think most popular mainstream music is just that retarded that a Macklemore would have beaten Kendrick regardless if he was Black or White, HOWEVER, I understand this impulse of anger towards cultural appropriation more than the other schools of thoughts about the subject.
With regards to Black Panther-
I can see the argument from a point of view of someone arguing in bad faith. "Hollywood is so racist it cannot reduce itself to imagine an Africa nation actually be technologically advanced. It actually needs to make a make-belief fairyland that conceals itself, and was only able to get that technological edge by the token of power they discovered. So they make up Wakanda to give Africans an excuse to be technologically advanced. "
But while there are many people on the internet who wants to argue in bad faith because they got a chip on their shoulder, this doesn't seem like that the story of Black Panther is racist at all. Heroes come from all sorts of cultures, and most stories are retellings with a new coat of paint. That new coat of paint has always been the "cultural appropriation" aspect of it. At least if we are talking about why white people tell stories of black people, or why cisgendered actors play transgender characters in films.
That comes from an ideology of thinking that you are right about something just because you are closer to something. But you are not. And your experience about something doesn't mean you make the right calls. It could be. But lots of people with experiences on the sleeves about something, don't know how to approach that in an objective manner.
And that is what I don't understand about looking at someone and going "This is not the right person to handle this subject". Like you, or anyone else are in a position to make that judgment. Being an expert on something doesn't make you right, and someone coming from the outside and telling you stuff you don't like to hear or see, doesn't make them wrong. It's a bad faith manner of shutting someone down with insincere logical fallacies.
At the same time, it does make a lot of logical sense that at least some of the time, someone with lived experiences know what they are talking about. And nobody should sleep on that. But there is a big difference between using arguments you got from your experiences to make a logical point as opposed to attack to someone else and say "you cannot talk, do or say about this, because you are white".
You don't need to live something to be able to understand it. Sometimes the best solutions come from the outside looking in because everyone is too biased with their own experiences to really have a good approach to the subject. And thats true for all of us.
Some random dude or gal could talk a little bit to you and walk away with a pretty good idea of a sizeable portion of your blind spots that you have tried curbing all your life. Its easy, because we are too close to ourselves and the things we are passionate about. Its always easier fixing someone elses problems than your own. That's just the way it is. But obviously, a lot of people don't wanna hear that. That's arguing in bad faith, and I have seen a lot of that shit.
There is a school of thought that says that other cultures shouldn't mix like they have in the past. Like white people wearing Kimonos at a Japanese history museum. That, is the belief that that is a fetishization of a different culture as something "exotic" (foreign and different) and even if that fetishization is positive is condescending. When a person wears the symbols, traditions and customs of another, that person is stealing it or misusing it. Particularly if the person is remixing it, not understanding it fully. Halloween and Cosplay costumes of characters from other ethnicities or cultures are a good example.
Then there is another school about cultural appropriation which doesn't mind that other cultures use each others customs, only when they then can become more succesful with it or steal it in a way that maks people think that the person appropriating the culture came up with it. An example of that would be Macklemore beating Kendrick Lamar for a hiphop reward at the MTV-whatever. The idea is that Macklemore is so retarded and beneath the level of Kendrick that there is no way to look at this without thinking that Macklemore (as a white dude) aped the historical sound and voice of Kendrick and his people, and then beat him at the fuckfest.
Now, I think most popular mainstream music is just that retarded that a Macklemore would have beaten Kendrick regardless if he was Black or White, HOWEVER, I understand this impulse of anger towards cultural appropriation more than the other schools of thoughts about the subject.
With regards to Black Panther-
I can see the argument from a point of view of someone arguing in bad faith. "Hollywood is so racist it cannot reduce itself to imagine an Africa nation actually be technologically advanced. It actually needs to make a make-belief fairyland that conceals itself, and was only able to get that technological edge by the token of power they discovered. So they make up Wakanda to give Africans an excuse to be technologically advanced. "
But while there are many people on the internet who wants to argue in bad faith because they got a chip on their shoulder, this doesn't seem like that the story of Black Panther is racist at all. Heroes come from all sorts of cultures, and most stories are retellings with a new coat of paint. That new coat of paint has always been the "cultural appropriation" aspect of it. At least if we are talking about why white people tell stories of black people, or why cisgendered actors play transgender characters in films.
That comes from an ideology of thinking that you are right about something just because you are closer to something. But you are not. And your experience about something doesn't mean you make the right calls. It could be. But lots of people with experiences on the sleeves about something, don't know how to approach that in an objective manner.
And that is what I don't understand about looking at someone and going "This is not the right person to handle this subject". Like you, or anyone else are in a position to make that judgment. Being an expert on something doesn't make you right, and someone coming from the outside and telling you stuff you don't like to hear or see, doesn't make them wrong. It's a bad faith manner of shutting someone down with insincere logical fallacies.
At the same time, it does make a lot of logical sense that at least some of the time, someone with lived experiences know what they are talking about. And nobody should sleep on that. But there is a big difference between using arguments you got from your experiences to make a logical point as opposed to attack to someone else and say "you cannot talk, do or say about this, because you are white".
You don't need to live something to be able to understand it. Sometimes the best solutions come from the outside looking in because everyone is too biased with their own experiences to really have a good approach to the subject. And thats true for all of us.
Some random dude or gal could talk a little bit to you and walk away with a pretty good idea of a sizeable portion of your blind spots that you have tried curbing all your life. Its easy, because we are too close to ourselves and the things we are passionate about. Its always easier fixing someone elses problems than your own. That's just the way it is. But obviously, a lot of people don't wanna hear that. That's arguing in bad faith, and I have seen a lot of that shit.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
Remember when they used “The Revolution Will Not Be Televised” in tv ads for this? I mean why not openly spit in the face of the civil rights movement and pretend the revolution was invented by Entertainment Weekly?
Amazingly the story of the first black superhero is someone created by two white guys as the same time as the Black Panther revolutionaries we’re starting. It wasn’t intentional, it was actually a total coincidence. That’s some lucky corporate synergy if I ever saw it
And yes the only African American in the film is the main villain who wants to liberate the world’s oppressed. The hero is someone who kills the black American and delivers the tech not to the oppressed of the world, but to the CIA.
It’s beyond fucked, the politics of his movie.
Amazingly the story of the first black superhero is someone created by two white guys as the same time as the Black Panther revolutionaries we’re starting. It wasn’t intentional, it was actually a total coincidence. That’s some lucky corporate synergy if I ever saw it
And yes the only African American in the film is the main villain who wants to liberate the world’s oppressed. The hero is someone who kills the black American and delivers the tech not to the oppressed of the world, but to the CIA.
It’s beyond fucked, the politics of his movie.
Last edited:
cryptoadam
Banned
Funny to see this thread come back around.
Anyways I still agree with the OP. Give this film to a white director and it becomes problematic.
I mean did we not just have the NBA contemplate changing the word OWNERS because it harkens back to slavery?
What do you think a white guy ordering around black people all day would come off as? Oh and this white guy thinks he knows about Africa? Seems like all he knows is spear chucking rhino riding big earing dashiki wearing people whose system of governance is based on some sick fight to the death ritual.
The race grifters would of been triggered to hell and back. If they were offended or not doesn't really matter, clicks do, and calling a big Marvel production racist would bring in the clicks.
Anyways I still agree with the OP. Give this film to a white director and it becomes problematic.
I mean did we not just have the NBA contemplate changing the word OWNERS because it harkens back to slavery?
What do you think a white guy ordering around black people all day would come off as? Oh and this white guy thinks he knows about Africa? Seems like all he knows is spear chucking rhino riding big earing dashiki wearing people whose system of governance is based on some sick fight to the death ritual.
The race grifters would of been triggered to hell and back. If they were offended or not doesn't really matter, clicks do, and calling a big Marvel production racist would bring in the clicks.
Vicetrailia
Member
No. He'd be praised for his immense skill. The director didn't do this alone, countless people shaped the movie.
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