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[ElectricBlue187]

Also, I got a new avatar. If there's one platform that needs defense against unfounded and uninformed opinionating on GAF, then it's the PC.

haha I actually have that exact same keyboard

 

[Durante]

This thread title is VERY misleading. On new sites they have things like "WOW on consoles" for the title.

Hmm, the article flat out confirms that WoW won't be coming to consoles (I find their reasoning quite funny: apparently the online population on consoles is too small for them to even care :lol). So "WOW on consoles" would be far more misleading.

 

[biggreenmachine]

P4 2,4B
1,5GB RAM
Radeon 9700 pro 128MB

And how much did that set up cost 4.5 years ago? $500?
For an average guy like me that basically uses his comp for web surfing and email and nothing else anyting above basic requirements has to be considered "the cost of gaming"

 

[Kabouter]

And how much did that set up cost 4.5 years ago? $500?
For an average guy like me that basically uses his comp for web surfing and email and nothing else anyting above basic requirements has to be considered "the cost of gaming"

Probably didn't cost too much, government here had a program for buying PC's cheaper back then.

 

[ToxicAdam]

PCs need upgrading more often than I have to buy the next console model from a manufacturer. At least if you want to play the latest games decently that is. You can always "technically" play on a POS if you want.

So, you're falling back on the "PC gaming is too expensive" arguement.

While that is still true, it's becoming less and less as each generation comes along. The consoles themselves are more expensive, you need to invest in new displays this time, the hardware is dying more frequently, proprietary controllers/accessories add to this cost every generation, then when you add in other things like paying for online play.

I don't think there can be an arguement against actual games on a console being more expensive. Not only in price, but due to their low replayability because of their static nature, you get less "bang for your buck". For a console, they use the same engine and slap a #2 on the title and charge you 60 bucks. For a PC, they call it an expansion and only charge you half the price.

You could also make the arguement that people who bought the 360 core might have to 'upgrade' 2 or 3 times (HD upgrades and HDDVD unit) before this generation is through.


I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation of consoles will have a way to "future proof" themselves by having removable graphic cards and hard drives. It seems the logical way to go if you want to remain competitive and make your initial R&D last for 5+ years.

 

[Razoric]

Hmm, the article flat out confirms that WoW won't be coming to consoles (I find their reasoning quite funny: apparently the online population on consoles is too small for them to even care :lol). So "WOW on consoles" would be far more misleading.

I agree with them. The time it would take to port WoW to consoles and, maybe, sell 1 million copies would be better spent towards making another PC expansion pack that sells 2 million+ in one day.

Not enough people own the next gen consoles to make it worth it yet... especially for a game most people could get to run on their old PC. (and almost everyone has a PC that can run world of warcraft)

 

[Dr_Cogent]

So, you're falling back on the "PC gaming is too expensive" arguement.

While that is still true, it's becoming less and less as each generation comes along. The consoles themselves are more expensive, you need to invest in new displays this time, the hardware is dying more frequently, proprietary controllers/accessories add to this cost every generation, then when you add in other things like paying for online play.

I don't think there can be an arguement that the actual games on a console are far more expensive. Not only in price, but due to their low replayability because of their static nature, you get less "bang for your buck". For a console, they use the same engine and slap a #2 on the title and charge you 60 bucks. For a PC, they call it an expansion and only charge you half the price.

You could also make the arguement that people who bought the 360 core might have to 'upgrade' 2 or 3 times (HD upgrades and HDDVD unit) before this generation is through.


I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation of consoles will have a way to "future proof" themselves by having removable graphic cards and hard drives. It seems the logical way to go if you want to remain competitive and make your initial R&D last for 5+ years.

Nah. Then they would fragment the market doing that. The PC can keep that. Consoles should stay closed systems.

I've played both sides. Both for a very long time. I'm older now. I don't have the time, the patience or the funds either. PCs are good for everything besides games for me.

 

[biggreenmachine]

Probably didn't cost too much, government here had a program for buying PC's cheaper back then.

Well I imagine that the 9700 pro which was brand new bleeding edge 4.5 years was probably $500 alone. I am just making the point that to the average PC user a $500 laptop is more then enough for their computing needs and its portable to boot. PC gaming is awesome but alot of people, myself included have been burned with upgrades (I wince as I remember my brand new 5600 ultra) Consoles, provided they arent made by Sega, should give you 5years of unintereupted service for <$500.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation of consoles will have a way to "future proof" themselves by having removable graphic cards and hard drives. It seems the logical way to go if you want to remain competitive and make your initial R&D last for 5+ years.

I dunno I would be suprised if all of the big three go this route, of course there are precedents for this (the N64 video memory pack and 360 hard drive come to mind), but I'm not sure if there is a good enough reason profit wise to support that kind of decision, since they are essentially splitting up their (already small) user base each time

 

[Kabouter]

Well I imagine that the 9700 pro which was brand new bleeding edge 4.5 years was probably $500 alone. I am just making the point that to the average PC user a $500 laptop is more then enough for their computing needs and its portable to boot. PC gaming is awesome but alot of people, myself included have been burned with upgrades (I wince as I remember my brand new 5600 ultra) Consoles, provided they arent made by Sega, should give you 5years of unintereupted service for <$500.

Like the Xbox? Which launched in 2002, and was replaced in 2005? (Europe)
Either way yes, PC gaming hardware will be more expensive (especially so if you buy a graphics card in the worst line of graphics card nVidia has ever produced. One which was completely destroyed by ATi's 9000-series ). But here in Europe anyway, that's more than compensated by other things. You'll save 30e easy on every game, more if you wait a little since PC games drop in price crazy fast. Online is free. Accessoires are cheaper. And you can still do quite a bit with relatively little money, what it does take however is some research (or advice from a place like GAF ).

In the end, all gaming is expensive, and PC gaming not really more so than console gaming.

 

[Mark Gonzales]

In the end, all gaming is expensive, and PC gaming not really more so than console gaming.

You know of a $400 PC that could run Gears of War? Show me a link to the ad so I can buy it.

Thanks

 

[Kabouter]

You know of a $400 PC that could run Gears of War? Show me a link to the ad so I can buy it.

Thanks

You know, you could have just read the rest of my post too.

 

[Pimpbaa]

It's happened before. After the early 80's video game market crash, home computers like the commodore 64 picked up the slack. I don't see PCs being the platform to make console obsolete however. Those early and mid 80's computers had limited upgradeability and you didn't have to worry about getting the latest hardware to get the most out of your games .

 

[Unbiased Basturd]

I used to say the same thing you're all saying. Don't want to upgrade all the time, want to play on the big screen TV from the couch, the games are all the same, blah blah woof, but then I bought a mid-line graphics card for a mere $125 and started buying lots of games, and reading websites and mags about what has recently come out and what's in the future, and I'm a total convert. PC gaming is as great as it's ever been. Believe me, there are many more varied games in different genres than you think. It's just the PC gaming media isn't as, er, centralized as the console gaming press. You have to go looking for information instead of every game and news item always being represented on the major sites.

$125 card (7600 GS) and I can play any game I want, and run it well, too. 360 pads work great in most action games, wired or wireless. The cry of "too expensive" is very misguided.

It's because it depends what kind of player you are. Per example, i wouldn't survive as a PC gamer because i always play the lastest games and i would always need a top of the line PC. I can't downgrade my settings, it automatically = a crutch in my mind and i feel i'm not getting the right experience or that i am not playing the game as it is truly intended. Therefore i feel cheated because i paid the same amount of money when i bought this game in order to play that "cheaper" experience.
I like the simplicity of consoles, there simply is no issues with them, it's always designed to take advantage of what you have and you always get the top value for your money when you buy a game, it's the same settings for everyone.
Being happy as a PC gamer would constantly cost me an arm and a leg.

 

[Razoric]

It's because it depends what kind of player you are. Per example, i wouldn't survive as a PC gamer because i always play the lastest games and i would always need a top of the line PC. I can't downgrade my settings, it automatically = a crutch in my mind and i feel i'm not getting the right experience or that i am not playing the game as it is truly intended. Therefore i feel cheated because i paid the same amount of money when i bought this game in order to play that "cheaper" experience.
I like the simplicity of consoles, there simply is no issues with them, it's always designed to take advantage of what you have and you always get the top value for your money when you buy a game, it's the same settings for everyone.
Being happy as a PC gamer would constantly cost me an arm and a leg.

You do realize any PC games you are playing on consoles are essentially downgrades, right? (Oblivion for example)

 

[Unbiased Basturd]

You do realize any PC games you are playing on consoles are essentially downgrades, right? (Oblivion for example)

You know what i mean. I don't need to downgrade the settings when i put Oblivion on my Xbox, i know exactly what i am paying for and it's the same for everybody.
We should not mix "ports" with "downgrading the original game". And when the port is too bad anyways, you're simply not buying. It becomes the same logic as playing with the settings down -- i simply wouldn't buy the game to begin with.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

i have a gaming pc and and am getting a ps3 wii and own a 360


I WIN!

 

[Odrion]

PC gaming is too cumbersome, complicated, and requires too much maintenance for the mainstream market for it to compete with console gaming. Fred and Todd here don't want to worry about defragging their Harddrive, scanning for viruses, or installing new hardware on their gaming machine. No one wants to do that anymore.

Quite honestly, I don't want to bother with upgrading my PC anymore because the PC Market turned into dead corpse, with the only life in it being the flesh eating maggots we like to call Western RPGs (and MMORPGs,) RTSes, and Tycoon games. The only two things on it I want is Spore and Stalker.

 

[FauX]

Until there is a way to completely control a PC from my couch without ever having to use a keyboard and a mouse, consoles won't be obsolete.

dude.... what about wireless keyboard /mouse?

I recently bought a HDTV, a samsung "26 LCD, and it has a PC port, so this tv could be used as a monitor.

So I decided to use this baby as my new monitor... just need to buy now a wireless keyboard and mouse and I'll be playing Quake 4, condemned, GRAW... OMG!

 

[JayDubya]

Oh, so that's why they cancelled Ghost? >_>

 

[firex]

I would love to see an end to consoles and proprietary formats, just because then it would mean an end to list wars, console wars, and essentially 4/5 of the stupid shit in the gaming section of the internet today.

 

[Ghost]

I guess when you're blizzard and everyone and their grandma pays a monthly fee for the priviledge of playing your game, it's easy to get disconnected from...you know....reality.

 

[Bert]

dude.... what about wireless keyboard /mouse?

I recently bought a HDTV, a samsung "26 LCD, and it has a PC port, so this tv could be used as a monitor.

So I decided to use this baby as my new monitor... just need to buy now a wireless keyboard and mouse and I'll be playing Quake 4, condemned, GRAW... OMG!

No, no, a thousand times no. If you think that a wireless keyboard/mouse combo is anywhere near the kind of ease of use required for living room entertainment then you have another think coming.

IMO the closest thing to perfect for couch control of a media centre is the wiimote. You need some kind of pointing device and that's where the wiimote wins over a remote control.

To address OP I can't see PCs ever giving up their role as part of a home office (word processing, spreadsheets, etc.) but I do see consoles dominating the media centre market.

If you class the major apps required on your living room TV as: Gaming, TV, Film, Music, Photos, Web Browsing, Communications.

Then only Web Browsing and Communications require anything above and beyond the wiimote. For me (and a lot of people won't like this) I'd accept a wiimote with a phone keypad on and predicitive text as I have no problems with it on my mobile. Also with voice control and voice comms making good progress maybe you won't need text input at all in the future.

Make no mistake though, whatever ends up owning our living rooms it won't have a 104-key QWERTY attached.

 

[Scotch]

Which reminds me, Blizzard. Get Lost Vikings and Blackthorne on XBLA!

 

[Odrion]

I would love to see an end to consoles and proprietary formats, just because then it would mean an end to list wars, console wars, and essentially 4/5 of the stupid shit in the gaming section of the internet today.

I like the competition. There is nothing better than a year when multiple companies release killer titles at the same time to compete with each console. 2001 and 2004 instantly spring to my mind. Last year was really good as well.

I'm definitely going to look forward to Halo 3's launch and what will Sony and Nintendo have up their sleeve.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

dude.... what about wireless keyboard /mouse?

I recently bought a HDTV, a samsung "26 LCD, and it has a PC port, so this tv could be used as a monitor.

So I decided to use this baby as my new monitor... just need to buy now a wireless keyboard and mouse and I'll be playing Quake 4, condemned, GRAW... OMG!

Sitting on the couch or in a rocking chair doesn't lend itself well to KB/M

 

[mckmas8808]

Um the games would still be competing.

No console wars = better for everyone

What about console 1st party games? What if the Wii was the only console? O_O

 

[Teknopathetic]

Half of you people making suggestions to things besides a keyboard for an input device are suggesting things that would be 10x clunkier and unintuitive than a friggin' keyboard. Good Work.

It's also painfully obvious that about 4/5ths of you didn't even read the article, you just saw the title and proceed to post your usual ignorant knee jerk reactions.

 

[-Rogue5-]

Keyboard and Mouse or Joystick or Wiimote-like controls are irrelevant because they are interchangable.

...to say that consoles are anything but PCs with a more specific, albeit limited, purpose (but not as limited with the latest gen) is foolish. The only differences between them can be removed with an OS update. The only reason consoles were ever made separately from PCs to begin with was because of cost. Cost is less relevent now. Consoles are already just PCs, they just don't have word processors, spreadsheets, and aren't as customizable.

Consoles are the midsized sedan or minivan (as in, the average, everyday vehicle) of the computer industry.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Half of you people making suggestions to things besides a keyboard for an input device are suggesting things that would be 10x clunkier and unintuitive than a friggin' keyboard. Good Work.

:lol Keyboards intuitive...

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Keyboards intuitive..."

You should spend less time emoting and more time working on your reading comprehension.

 

[Razoric]

What about console 1st party games? What if the Wii was the only console? O_O

There will always be more consoles, I guess the better term would be "platform". All games are coded for one platform and tweaked accordingly for different specs.

 

[Razoric]

Half of you people making suggestions to things besides a keyboard for an input device are suggesting things that would be 10x clunkier and unintuitive than a friggin' keyboard. Good Work.

It's also painfully obvious that about 4/5ths of you didn't even read the article, you just saw the title and proceed to post your usual ignorant knee jerk reactions.

Pretty much. :\

 

[Spike]

PC gaming will never die. Neither will console gaming.

They'll get even closer in the future, and hopefully the PC will become the leading standard. Then we can get away from having to buy multiple plaforms for the few exclusives that stand out.

One platform future FTW!

 

[mckmas8808]

There will always be more consoles, I guess the better term would be "platform". All games are coded for one platform and tweaked accordingly for different specs.

But what if I wanted a console with a HD player built into it? What if some other people didn't want a HD player built inside their console?

And would that platform play older PS2 games?

 

[Razoric]

But what if I wanted a console with a HD player built into it? What if some other people didn't want a HD player built inside their console?

And would that platform play older PS2 games?

I don't have the specs in front of me on this universal platform but I'd imagine you could download PS2 games and there are PCs right now with HD players built in them, dunno why that would change for a console on that platform.

 

[Flachmatuch]

Half of you people making suggestions to things besides a keyboard for an input device are suggesting things that would be 10x clunkier and unintuitive than a friggin' keyboard. Good Work.

It's also painfully obvious that about 4/5ths of you didn't even read the article, you just saw the title and proceed to post your usual ignorant knee jerk reactions.

The part of the interview that's actually about the thread title isn't even on the site yet. Anyway, the quotes in the article seem a bit silly, and the only thing that's in the interview that's not about WoW is also pretty stupid. Anyway, it's GI.biz ffs, any GAF thread will have more depth and insight than that site.

Edit: it is there, I just didn't notice, idiot. The interview is still stupid.

 

[ToyMachine228]

I think people should also stop assuming that one person's opinion does not represent and entire company's.

 

[Blimblim]

dude.... what about wireless keyboard /mouse?

I recently bought a HDTV, a samsung "26 LCD, and it has a PC port, so this tv could be used as a monitor.

So I decided to use this baby as my new monitor... just need to buy now a wireless keyboard and mouse and I'll be playing Quake 4, condemned, GRAW... OMG!

So the keyboard on my lap and the mouse where? It doesn't work for me, sorry.
I have a wireless k/m for my PS3, and it's just plain annoying to have to lean to my table just to use the mouse. That's not what I expect to do when I play on my TV.
I have a 24" Dell monitor and a nice work chair for all my PC needs. Until someone finds a way for me to confortably use a keyboard mouse from my couch it will stay that way.
As for the people suggesting a wiimote-like thing, as much as I think the Wii pointer works great, it will never ever replace a keyboard for typing.

 

[Kabouter]

So the keyboard on my lap and the mouse where? It doesn't work for me, sorry.
I have a wireless k/m for my PS3, and it's just plain annoying to have to lean to my table just to use the mouse. That's not what I expect to do when I play on my TV.
I have a 24" Dell monitor and a nice work chair for all my PC needs. Until someone finds a way for me to confortably use a keyboard mouse from my couch it will stay that way.
As for the people suggesting a wiimote-like thing, as much as I think the Wii pointer works great, it will never ever replace a keyboard for typing.

Believe.

 

[Flachmatuch]

So the keyboard on my lap and the mouse where? It doesn't work for me, sorry.
I have a wireless k/m for my PS3, and it's just plain annoying to have to lean to my table just to use the mouse. That's not what I expect to do when I play on my TV.
I have a 24" Dell monitor and a nice work chair for all my PC needs. Until someone finds a way for me to confortably use a keyboard mouse from my couch it will stay that way.
As for the people suggesting a wiimote-like thing, as much as I think the Wii pointer works great, it will never ever replace a keyboard for typing.

You don't actually need to type much when playing most games, for control the nunchuk's ok. Nunchuk + wiimote could work really well for a lot of PC games (maybe even the majority).

Anyway, the guy is just stating the obvious when he says the 360 is a "sophisticated PC" (either stating the obvious or just saying stupid things depending on your definitions, definitely nothing worthwhile) and the PC is becoming an entertainment hub, and there's just no way you can draw any conclusions from these things.

 

[FauX]

So the keyboard on my lap and the mouse where? It doesn't work for me, sorry.
I have a wireless k/m for my PS3, and it's just plain annoying to have to lean to my table just to use the mouse. That's not what I expect to do when I play on my TV.
I have a 24" Dell monitor and a nice work chair for all my PC needs. Until someone finds a way for me to confortably use a keyboard mouse from my couch it will stay that way.
As for the people suggesting a wiimote-like thing, as much as I think the Wii pointer works great, it will never ever replace a keyboard for typing.

Ok, maybe it doesn't work for you, and I understand why people complaint about PC gaming: comfort. Believe me sometimes I feel terrbile sitting in a chair playing games...

But unfortunately I'm a PC gamer, and I can't live without it, so I decided to buy a wireless keyboard /mouse...

btw my TV is in my bedroom, so I can play games on my bed (very comfy )

 

[Donnie]

Blizzard's Itzik Ben Bassat has suggested that consoles are becoming more and more like PCs - to the point where they could be obsolete within as little as five years.

This kind of thinking is simply idiotic. What really makes a console a console is the fact that its a fixed platform (which for gaming offers great advantages). Which is something a PC can never offer, or it wouldn't really be a PC anymore... By the same token one of the advantages of a PC is that it offers full upgradeability and a complex OS which is something a console can never offer, or it wouldn't be a console anymore. By there very nature consoles and PC's can never take each others place. Honestly saying that soon PC's and consoles will merge and consoles will be obsolete is like saying apples and oranges will merge and oranges will be obsolete.. This kind of crap has been said every generation since the N64/Playstation and its no closer to happening simply because it can't happen.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Believe.

No thank you.

I can't rock in my chair with KB/M.

I miss out on RTS games because of it, but I've never been a big fan of them anywhow.

 

[Kabouter]

No thank you.

I can't rock in my chair with KB/M.

I miss out on RTS games because of it, but I've never been a big fan of them anywhow.

You can't?
The chair I'm in does rock and I can use a mouse/kb just fine.
But it's perfectly understandable that you wouldn't want to use the lapboard . Price alone would be enough to sway me from buying it.

 

[No6]

So the keyboard on my lap and the mouse where? It doesn't work for me, sorry.
I have a wireless k/m for my PS3, and it's just plain annoying to have to lean to my table just to use the mouse. That's not what I expect to do when I play on my TV.
I have a 24" Dell monitor and a nice work chair for all my PC needs. Until someone finds a way for me to confortably use a keyboard mouse from my couch it will stay that way.
As for the people suggesting a wiimote-like thing, as much as I think the Wii pointer works great, it will never ever replace a keyboard for typing.

Thumbball mouse. I have my PC/moniter set up next to my recliner, looking across my living room to my TV/consoles. Mouse sits on the armrest, keyboard on lap, feet propped up by coffee table or recliner. If I get really lazy I can solo in WoW while lying at a 45 degree angle and the thumbball on my chest (not using the keyboard means I just can't chat or use the auction house).

It's also better for preventing carpel tunnel since you don't have to move your wrist.

 

[FauX]

Believe.

Oh dear God!

Where I can Find one of those???

 

[Dr_Cogent]

You can't?
The chair I'm in does rock and I can use a mouse/kb just fine.

The chair does rock, or you rock while in it while gaming? I don't see it happenin. Sorry.

I have no idea what the price of that thing is.

 

[Kabouter]

The chair does rock, or you rock while in it while gaming? I don't see it happenin. Sorry.

I have no idea what the price of that thing is.

It rocks, and I do while gaming
$130 btw, and general release in march apparently.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

It rocks, and I do while gaming
$130 btw, and general release in march apparently.

Still don't see it