You don't like Torchlight, you don't like Path of Exile. Do you like any other arpg other than D3?
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Blizzard "goes back to the drawing board" with Diablo 3 PvP
- Thread starter Majine
- Start date
You don't like Torchlight, you don't like Path of Exile. Do you like any other arpg other than D3?
Synth_floyd
Banned
Must be that. "Simply fighting each other with no other objectives or choices to make" definitely does not get old judging by the popularity of Halo, Call of Duty, Dota, Starcraft, and virtually every competitive multiplayer game in existence.
The first half of Act II is one long satanistic ride, Act IV is angels VS Demons all the way.
Most of Act I deals with satanism and gore too. I'm thoroughly confused as to why you needed even more of it.
Edit : Spirity I love Titan Quest, Baldur's Gate DA, Champions of Norath (both games), Sacred, Nox and Diablo 2.
I hated TL, couldn't get into PoE and found TL2 boring.
PoE map idea in D3 would alone make this game better
It's as satanistic, occult and gory as sunday church prayer.
Diablo1/2 art style for many players was as essential as Dark Souls art style. Without it, it is no longer same game and frankly they should name it something other than Diablo. "Nephalem", ""YDHACHHH"-A" ("You don't have a chance ha ha ha" - Azmodan) or something other than diablo.
Diablo 3 is just different game that is named Diablo 3 and doesn't have much in common with Diablo1/2 aside from few details (like cain or diablo). They changed style, most of lore, character skills and progression, online and art which we talk about here.
It is close to diablo 1/2 in any way as Dino Crisis 3 to 1/2
I played through normal and the difficulty above it and have found ZERO set items and ZERO unique items. The loot is junk in this game. In D2 there were levels of loot, so in the early levels you'd find set items or uniques that weren't insanely good, but still nice for your level. I guess the auction house ruined the loot in this game but I'm not sure. I have no interest in browsing an in game shop paying real/fake money for items. The fun is FINDING the items, not buying them.
You'd still get that terrible D3 itemisation though. Maps alone wouldn't save it.
Sir Abacus
Member
You're not wrong. There's a more damning quote out there that basically says players can't handle two rulesets and that they're delicate flowers who will cry all the way to the unsub button but the one I used was accessible and proved the point.
But you are right, devs are fickle things with this company.
Ok let's add PoE itemization as well. But that still leaves terrible character progression.
I don't think developers wanted that in way you speak about this.
In my opinion they just were noobs in arpg gengre and simply didn't know what will happen after AH release.
What they should do:
Introduce back Ladders with a lot of loot being Ladder only. Each half a year most of people would start again with different characters. AH should also be devided into ladder and nonladder.
Thanks to that inflation would be minimal. With scarce of loot at new ladder start most of simple items would again be worth something.
Ladder structure was essential part of D2 battle net and PoE took it from D2 and evolved it with short ladder races (like 3 hour survival race).
..I can't stay mad at you.
/hug.
I guess it doesn't matter, anyways. What they should do and what they will do obviously are not the same.
theMrCravens
Member
People who used the RMAH would complain about monthly ladders.
Although I agree that they should create a complete new ladder for the expansion, with new economy for it (since exploits were fixed). Keep old ladder for non-expac.
You realise that everything you just said was said about Diablo 2 in relation to the first game right?
The exact same complaints.
NemesisPrime
Banned
QFT.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Art wise they played it safe and sanitized all the risqué Diablo 2 imagery.
That's a fact but also a consequence of Blizzard being nowadays a huge company afraid of losing revenue.
That's a fact but also a consequence of Blizzard being nowadays a huge company afraid of losing revenue.
It is not even comparable situation. Difference is that Diablo 2 was evolution where D3 is revolution. And Diablo 2 is superior game mechanically to D1 in every way. D1 did have fantastic climate and PoE is somewhat more connected in nature to D1 rather than D2 (art style)
theMrCravens said:
Worrying about RMAH complainers is last thing they should care about.
Ladder expansion idea is good idea. Keep RMAH and old non ladder economy to vanilla D3 (most of people after a while will migrate to expansion) and make expansion ladder reset every half a year with ladder players going to permanent nonladder.
RMAH complainers will not complain and players will have fun with ladders.
Interfectum
Gold Member
Boom, nailed it.
They turned the Diablo series from a casino to a flea market. I don't like shopping.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
D3 is big on controlling precisely the power level of players. In that sense it is almost if it was designed like a MMO is.
krypt0nian
Banned
They never understood that the Southshore to Tauren Mill world PVP was the absolute best thing their game ever resulted in.
Blizzard, this new Blizzard, is dead to me.
This ruined the game for me.
The first playthrough was waaaay too easy too. D1 made me scared of moving forward, in D3 i didnt die once.
Macmanus
Member
Diablo 3 is the most disappointing title I've ever encountered, and Blizzard is the most disappointing developer over nearly the past decade. They've released nothing of note since 2004.
Balance issues and a forced parcing of the title as a cash grab left many wanting. Doesn't compare to the splendor that was the original. Just IP coasting, really.
Balance issues and a forced parcing of the title as a cash grab left many wanting. Doesn't compare to the splendor that was the original. Just IP coasting, really.
Starcraft 2 was solid.
I would if I could put myself through it. Ive put 35 hours into beta and 50 into the main game and Im done.
I thought after beta that this would be something I could play for ages but it disappointed me sooo much theres no going back.
Try normal MP10 with a new char and nothing but what drops for you
I would if I could put myself through it. Ive put 35 hours into beta and 50 into the main game and Im done.
I thought after beta that this would be something I could play for ages but it disappointed me sooo much theres no going back.
Try normal MP10 with a new char and nothing but what drops for you
I did play whole Diablo 3 first playtrough not using AH and it was to easy. It's good they added MPx because /players x was also awesome in D2
Diablo 2 wasn't hard either... D2 hell was easier than D3 hell.
Damage reflect + shielding+ molten = so much pain back in the 1.01 days
Still Diablo was never about beeing hard
Right, it's always been about loot. And that's not a strong point with D3.
Focus on core stats that are just a numerical advantage and don't change the gameplay.
No unique abilities or skill modifiers.
God awful legendary items at launch.
Blues are useless, yellows under i62 are useless. That leaves a very small pool of useful items.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Funny I've had more fun with the games from devs on this list than anything from Valve recently.
I've never been able to get into any of Valve's games. And I own all of them (except CS:GO)
Macmanus
Member
What does that have to do with PVP in Diablo 3?
He probably posted in the wrong thread, there's one about "fallen from grace devs"
Wickerbasket
Member
I just think Blizz have realised the whole itemisation and skill system the game is built upon is shit and, because of that, they can't introduce PVP in a way that would make it fair and balanced without redoing the whole game.
I'd be surprised if PVP ever surfaced.
I'd be surprised if PVP ever surfaced.
Forsaken82
Member
So... if its just a flea market, than how are the items being put up into the AH in the first place? Or do you believe that Blizzard is manipulating the RMAH by placing impossible to find items?
Someone post that picture of the 30 computers running bots.
Macmanus
Member
Blizzard isn't purposely manipulating anything. I'll take Hanlon's razor on this one.
Forsaken82
Member
Well I have friends who have hundreds of hours in the game (still playing it to this day) and are constantly finding items in inferno, so whether bots are being used or not, I know plenty of people who are pretty consistent in finding nice items. Or as many on this thread would say "Lucky" (i am not one of them though)
Is hould add also i haven't touched the game much since the big update a few months back.
krameriffic
Member
Valve's busy maintaining and expanding the infrastructure that has kept PC gaming from irrelevance over the course of this generation. And Portal 2 was fine. Dota 2 is and will continue to be BY FAR the most played game on Steam. Just because they haven't been to your taste doesn't mean Valve's games have been disappointing.
They also have nothing to do with both games, they just bought them out AFTER the fact
Oh god, are we going down this hole again?
Loot problem is that they made it completely irrelevant what type of loot you use. What matter is DPS. And they even made DPS as primary stat on weapons which speaks a lot about mindset of designer which came up with it.
They really could just scrap all stats and made it something like this:
Weapon
100DPS
even without artwork just name "weapon" and upgrades:
Weapon
120DPS
Weapon
1000DPS
Part of what makes diablo like game fun is thinking part. Should i use hammer which will give me flat damage and more stun or sabre which min-max damage is shitty but it is fast.
Should i use weapon with more ice damage or maybe poison. fire vs ice, same with armor.
Because of DPS and armor stats are so connected with gear instead of character stats there are no really any form of diversity. There is no "oh what an amazing unique i will build my character around it"
this connected with lack of any character progression (because skills and dex/int/str/ in D3 is not really any proggression) gives shitty loot.
Also lot of mechanics are simply not deep enough like armor stat.
For example this is how armor works in PoE and how this not allow to faceroll game
Simply put you can't create tank in PoE that will take anything on chest. And each stat have some downsides and upsides.
Main Dowsides
Armor -player should avoid crit mobs/players
Dodge - problem with a lot of small attacks,
Energy shield- avoid poison and direct attacks. Stacking life and ES is expensive Can't use flask to regenerate ES instantly
Main Upsides:
Armor - small damage is like flies trying to kill you
Dodge - better chance of survival for hard hitting melee mobs. double roll when crit hits (double chance of dodging crit)
Energy Shield - Works like additional life, and gives player "on full life" status which is crucial to some skills that gives bonuses as long as character is on full life
And aside from that there are more things that makes them varied.
So for example my lightning crit witch can easily handle tank character but anyone with dodge can be problematic for me.
Which is one of the reasons why they can't make PvP work. They simply created DPS/Armor machine system where everything else don't matter.
Fenderputty
Banned
It's glaringly apparent who's continued to play the game and who hasn't. Legendary drop rates have been increased and paragon / mp levels have made farming more efficient. Each of my toons are wearing items they found.
The only yellows I'm wearing are my gloves and ammys at this point.
Zyrusticae
Banned
I can't believe there's someone actually defending Diablo 3's atmosphere in here.
I mean the story is written with saturday morning cartoon villains! Plus the art style has very obviously lost that realistic edge that was prevalent in the previous two games, something that was a sacred cow for actual fans of the series (hence the whole backlash about the game not being grimdark enough, WHICH WAS COMPLETELY 100% TRUE).
Diablo and Diablo 2 had better writing (what little of it there was), credible villains, and oodles and oodles and oodles of dark atmosphere. They felt like depressing, oppressive games to play, and that was part of the charm! Diablo 3 has very little of that, especially with all the annoying cornball dialogue and their constant attempts to throw in comic relief for a series that never had any outside the Secret Cow Level. And then there's the music... Why couldn't the new composer at least try to emulate Uelman's use of percussive instruments? Sigh!
I will note that the dark atmosphere really peaked in the first game (especially in Hell, which is still the best final level of any game I've ever played), and the sequel never really achieved its heights in that regard, but it was still a better game in almost every other area. The sad thing is, Diablo 3 actually improved with regards to the clicking-feedback area of gameplay but sucked everywhere else. I don't get how you do that! How do you make a sequel to a game and then throw out everything that was good about it?! It doesn't even make sense!
Damn, now I'm sad. I'm going to go play some PSO2 to take the edge off...
I mean the story is written with saturday morning cartoon villains! Plus the art style has very obviously lost that realistic edge that was prevalent in the previous two games, something that was a sacred cow for actual fans of the series (hence the whole backlash about the game not being grimdark enough, WHICH WAS COMPLETELY 100% TRUE).
Diablo and Diablo 2 had better writing (what little of it there was), credible villains, and oodles and oodles and oodles of dark atmosphere. They felt like depressing, oppressive games to play, and that was part of the charm! Diablo 3 has very little of that, especially with all the annoying cornball dialogue and their constant attempts to throw in comic relief for a series that never had any outside the Secret Cow Level. And then there's the music... Why couldn't the new composer at least try to emulate Uelman's use of percussive instruments? Sigh!
I will note that the dark atmosphere really peaked in the first game (especially in Hell, which is still the best final level of any game I've ever played), and the sequel never really achieved its heights in that regard, but it was still a better game in almost every other area. The sad thing is, Diablo 3 actually improved with regards to the clicking-feedback area of gameplay but sucked everywhere else. I don't get how you do that! How do you make a sequel to a game and then throw out everything that was good about it?! It doesn't even make sense!
Damn, now I'm sad. I'm going to go play some PSO2 to take the edge off...
Interfectum
Gold Member
lol, yeah any argument you have about diablo 3 has been destroyed by this shit post. grats.
Hardly. Diablo 1 was hardly a blizzard game, Diablo 2 much more so (visible in the art direction and tone changes from the first game) but still retained a lot of non Blizzard DNA. Diablo 3? It's definitely a Blizzard game.
Can't say as much about DOTA 2 (which has 0 valve DNA) or the portal franchise.
Portal can evolve to be more in line with valve's gaming philosophy but then why do it? Valve makes money thanks to steam, game développement is a non factor for them, which is why their last intervally developped game was Episode 2 almost a decade ago.
100% agree with story stuff. It is just beyond bad. Diablo 3 in 3 minutes pretty much sums it up what wrong about it with Azmodan "hahaha you can't do shit to me" x100 after every minibos being the worst fucking crap i have ever seen.
As of why they fucked with mechanics i already know that. They were noobs at ARPG gengre and they simply learned as they were developing game. DPS/Armor is biggest fail in design that any non noob player (not even dev) could easily spot it. They focused on shiny things instead on math inside mechanics that ultimately gave us shallow game.
They didn't even do their homework with D2 properly.
For example potion system. They saw problem with constant buying and spaming. What they did ? They scrapped it introducing even more shitty healthglobe system with potion system cooldown. They fixed potion spaming but they introduced few moments where you need really health and you can't do anything because your potion cooldown is still on.
What PoE devs did with this problem: Each potion is not spent after one use. Potions have charges that are refilled by killing mobs. You can only regenerate max 20%life/mana per second with potions.
So you can't just spam potions because it will drain fast flasks and you have safety net when you really need it.
And this is not end. They futher evolved system with different kind of flask and giving potions mods like any other magical gear (giving also nerfs) like +resistance, immunity to curse, 100% crit for 2 seconds etc.
You should read some interviews with devs because it was their idea not blizzards.
Interfectum
Gold Member
So you're either ignorant or trolling. Who do you think is actively developing Dota 2 right now?
That poster was specifically talking about the earlier difficulties, which loot hasn't changed much for. Paragon levels aren't even available until 60. You still won't find many uniques in the first few difficulties because the drop rate is still trash, without a ton of MF mods, unless you're looking at the AH. Set items aren't even something that can drop pre-60. It's cool that they finally increased loot drops at 60/Inferno, it's less cool that you have to play through the game 3 times with shitty loot before you reach that point.
Every character follows the same simple stat priority which makes loot boring , you are never asking yourself "should I use weapon X or Y?" because the answer is always obvious (whichever has more dps). The AH kills 1-59 loot because you know that, no matter how cool you think the item you just found is, there is going to be something better on the AH for a trivial amount of gold.
The poor design of the loot (dps>all) and the AH kill the game for me, and are unlikely to be "fixed" through updates.
Deadstar said:
Which is why D3 will never be a fun game.
You mean who's deving it beside the various DotA community contractors, WC3's composer and the fact that they are merely converting the game as it exists to the source engine?
At least that lead to improvements to the source engine and steamworks, which are good things. Also I have no doubts that DotA 2 will be a great game, just to clarify that point.
Agreed. Characters in Dota 2 interact with one another when 'meeting', killing one another, etc. It's very reminiscent of TF2, not to mention the similar style of humor or the exact same drop system.