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[Pooya]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-10-23-valve-shouldnt-trademark-dota-blizzard

Blizzard game design boss Rob Pardo thinks that Valve's attempt to trademark DOTA "doesn't seem the right thing to do".

Pardo told Eurogamer that Blizzard was confused by Valve's move and believes it has the right to use the term in the name of its free StarCraft II mod, Blizzard DOTA, announced at BlizzCon today.

DOTA refers to the hugely popular online gametype born of the famous Warcraft III mod, Defence of the Ancients. Valve is currently developing DOTA 2 for its Source engine after employing some of the DOTA mod development community. Superannuation discovered that Valve had filed a trademark registration for DOTA earlier this year.

"To us, that means that you're really taking it away from the Blizzard and Warcraft III community and that just doesn't seem the right thing to do," said Pardo, Blizzard's executive vice president of game design.

Pardo described his reaction to the move as "a little bit of confusion, to be honest. Certainly, DOTA came out of the Blizzard community... It just seems a really strange move to us that Valve would go off and try to exclusively trademark the term considering it's something that's been freely available to us and everyone in the Warcraft III community up to this point.

"Valve is usually so pro mod community. It's such a community company that it just seems like a really strange move to us... I really don't understand why [they would do it], to be honest."

Valve's DOTA development is led by Abdul Ismail, known as IceFrog. Ismail was recently the target of an anonymous rant by a supposed Valve employee who called him a "compulsive liar", "unpleasantly domineering" and "poisonous to the company".

"He's one of the guys that most recently had been working on the DOTA Allstars map," said Pardo. "So I'm assuming, since he wants to continue making that map, that [Valve] felt like they should be able to trademark it."

Blizzard is showing internally-developed free mods for StarCraft II at BlizzCon this weekend. The biggest project of these is Blizzard DOTA, a Defence of the Ancients variant starring Blizzard characters from across its franchises, including Warcraft and Diablo ("a bit like Super Smash Brothers," according to the panel that unveiled it).

What if Valve were to object to Blizzard's use of the term for Blizzard DOTA, we aksed? "Our response is that they don't own the term DOTA at this point. It's something that they're filing for," Pardo said.

"Our contention is that it should continue to be available to Blizzard and to our community."

 

[ahoyhoy]

This is Bobby talking. Blizzard had 5+ years to buy up the rights to DOTA. They missed the boat and now they want reparations.

 

[FLEABttn]

Blizzard's DOTA seems too little too late, and these are nothing but bitter tears.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

This is Bobby talking. Blizzard had 5+ years to buy up the rights to DOTA. They missed the boat and now they want reparations.

My thoughts, exactly.

 

[HK-47]

Cry some moar

 

[IcedTea]

This is Bobby talking. Blizzard had 5+ years to buy up the rights to DOTA. They missed the boat and now they want reparations.

DOTA was made in Blizzard's map editor for Blizzard's game. It was created by some guy with no affiliation with Valve, and has been modified and updated by a good chunk of people who (again) have nothing to do with Valve. DOTA has been played for many years now in Blizzard games, and by millions of people. And then all of a sudden Valve decides that they should own the rights to it.

The only think that stinks of Bobby here is Valve.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Why doesn't Blizzard just trademark Defence of the Ancients?

 

[HK-47]

Why doesn't Blizzard just trademark Defence of the Ancients?

The acronym is bigger, perception wise, than the full name.

 

[IcedTea]

Why doesn't Blizzard just trademark Defence of the Ancients?

Or, better yet, why don't companies that had nothing to do with creating, developing, or updating a mod quit trying to claim that they own said mod?

 

[ahoyhoy]

DOTA was made in Blizzard's map editor for Blizzard's game. It was created by some guy with no affiliation with Valve, and has been modified and updated by a good chunk of people who (again) have nothing to do with Valve. DOTA has been played for many years now in Blizzard games, and by millions of people. And then all of a sudden Valve decides that they should own the rights to it.

The only think that stinks of Bobby here is Valve.

Unless there's something in the map editor's EULA that waives the rights of the map to Blizzard, technically the rights to the map are reserved to the creator, who is now under contract with Valve.

Valve knows the value of User generated content. See: Counter-strike, Team Fortress 2, (to a lesser extent) Left 4 Dead. Blizzard, while a great developer, doesn't know shit about this.

 

[Archie]

Blizzard should have hired Icefrog a long time ago instead of crying foul now. They could have easily had a 100% grip on the entire DOTA/MOBA/whateveryouwanttocallit market instead of competing with 3 full games with their SC2 mod.

 

[markot]

Im guessing valves move was in large part to avoid getting into trouble for using the name.

So if they file for it, and its get denied cause 'everyone owns it!' then they can still use it. But if they announced the game without trying to tm it, then they could have been open to legal shennaniganising from activlizzard or others.

 

[HK-47]

Unless there's something in the map editor's EULA that waives the rights of the map to Blizzard, technically the rights to the map are reserved to the creator, who is now under contract with Valve.

Valve knows the value of User generated content. See: Counter-strike, Team Fortress 2, (to a lesser extent) Left 4 Dead. Blizzard, while a great developer, doesn't know shit about this.

Day of Defeat also. And Portal and the tag mechanic in Portal 2 were student projects and are now part of multimillion selling franchise.

 

[Lasthope106]

As a Blizzard fan, QQ moar Blizzard!

Valve has a history of acquiring mod teams, so this is nothing new. Alien Swarm was originally a Unreal Engine mod. If Blizzard was right, that means Epic would have the rights to Alien Swarm.

 

[Pandaman]

Why doesn't Blizzard just trademark Defence of the Ancients?

im sure they did but not even blizzard can get through all of the map editors terms.

Im guessing valves move was in large part to avoid getting into trouble for using the name.

So if they file for it, and its get denied cause 'everyone owns it!' then they can still use it. But if they announced the game without trying to tm it, then they could have been open to legal shennaniganising from activlizzard or others.

This makes sense.

 

[Draft]

Blizzard should just use the DOTA name. What's Valve going to do, sue them? The thing about being the 800 lb gorilla is you still need to watch out for the elephant in the room.

 

[notworksafe]

This is Bobby talking. Blizzard had 5+ years to buy up the rights to DOTA. They missed the boat and now they want reparations.

Minus the Bobby part I agree.

 

[HK-47]

Blizzard should have hired Icefrog a long time ago instead of crying foul now. They could have easily had a 100% grip on the entire DOTA/MOBA/whateveryouwanttocallit market instead of competing with 3 full games with their SC2 mod.

And from what I hear, SCII isnt replicating the environment that WCIII had.

 

[LiK]

really REALLY?

 

[Recon]

Or, better yet, why don't companies that had nothing to do with creating, developing, or updating a mod quit trying to claim that they own said mod?

Bitter? It doesnt matter either way, its a damn name.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

I'm waiting for either dealwithit.gif or umad.jpg to show up.

 

[HK-47]

Also I'm surprised it took them this long to say something.

 

[dimb]

Valve fanboys storm in and accuse Blizzard of crying fowl when they're releasing a free mod version of the game?

Blizzard didn't buy DOTA because it is a mod. They don't own it. Valve is off their rocker.

 

[IcedTea]

Unless there's something in the map editor's EULA that waives the rights of the map to Blizzard

I'm willing to bet that there is, but it probably wouldn't stand up in court anyways.

technically the rights to the map are reserved to the creator, who is now under contract with Valve.

That's kind of the point though. The creator of DOTA does not work for Valve. IceFrog didn't create DOTA by even the most insane stretch of the imagination, so it is not his to give away or claim ownership of.

Valve knows the value of User generated content. See: Counter-strike, Team Fortress 2, (to a lesser extent) Left 4 Dead. Blizzard, while a great developer, doesn't know shit about this.

Yes, Blizzard knows shit about community created content. You know, despite the fact that they continually release and support incredibly robust content creation tools that lead to the creation of things like DOTA in the first place.

 

[jediyoshi]

Valve do what Pardon't?

 

[markot]

Valve fanboys storm in and accuse Blizzard of crying fowl when they're releasing a free mod version of the game?

Blizzard didn't buy DOTA because it is a mod. They don't own it. Valve is off their rocker.

 

[Arkaerial]

Wonder how long it will be before Blizzard tries to sue Valve?

 

[demigod]

Unless there's something in the map editor's EULA that waives the rights of the map to Blizzard, technically the rights to the map are reserved to the creator, who is now under contract with Valve.

Valve knows the value of User generated content. See: Counter-strike, Team Fortress 2, (to a lesser extent) Left 4 Dead. Blizzard, while a great developer, doesn't know shit about this.

Hello, Icefrog is not the creator of DOTA, he just took over it when Guinsoo left. If anyone owns the rights to it, it should be Eul's. Icefrog and Valve are thieves trying to trademark something they do not own.

 

[IcedTea]

Bitter? It doesnt matter either way, its a damn name.

Bitter about what? And yes, names do matter when you're talking about a game played by 10+ million people.

 

[Lasthope106]

Wonder how long it will be before Blizzard tries to sue Valve?

I think the two studios respect each other too much to take that route. But who knows, Kotick is insane.

 

[notworksafe]

I think the two studios respect each other too much to take that route. But who knows, Kotick is insane.

I think the decision on who to sue is above Bobby. At least one French guy has to approve it, I'm sure. People on this board assume Bobby has much more power over Blizzard and Vivendi as a whole than he actually does.

 

[flarkminator]

Hello, Icefrog is not the creator of DOTA, he just took over it when Guinsoo left. If anyone owns the rights to it, it should be Eul's. Icefrog and Valve are thieves trying to trademark something they do not own.

Uh, that's the point. Since the previous EULA didn't claim ownership of products created under the tools provided. NO ONE owns the name. Valve is completely in the clear here, and I say more power to them. Blizzard should have fucking moved on this sooner.

QQ moar blue.

 

[Archie]

Valve fanboys storm in and accuse Blizzard of crying fowl when they're releasing a free mod version of the game?

Blizzard didn't buy DOTA because it is a mod. They don't own it. Valve is off their rocker.

Valve saw an opportunity to make a game from a mod, like they do with essentially every project they have done that isn't named Half-Life.

Hello, Icefrog is not the creator of DOTA, he just took over it when Guinsoo left. If anyone owns the rights to it, it should be Eul's. Icefrog and Valve are thieves trying to trademark something they do not own.

And DOTA would have probably been a forgotten mod if Icefrog hadn't taken over instead of being an immensely popular game that spawned a new genre.

 

[markot]

Valve and Vivendi already have some legal history!

 

[flarkminator]

Valve and Vivendi already have some legal history!

Hahaha, good point!

 

[Interfectum]

This is Bobby talking. Blizzard had 5+ years to buy up the rights to DOTA. They missed the boat and now they want reparations.

Fuck off with that Bobby shit.

Blizzard is releasing a brand new version of DOTA for free on SC2. Valve, on the other hand, trademarked DOTA and plans to sell it.

And :lol on "missed the boat"... Valve bought the rights to DotA after not one, but two (or more) DotA style games hit the market. I'd say Valve missed the boat and they are making up for it by using brute force tactics.

 

[IcedTea]

And DOTA would have probably been a forgotten mod if Icefrog hadn't taken over instead of being an immensely popular game that spawned a new genre.

:lol

Okay, it's pretty clear that this thread is just filled with retarded Valve fanboys looking to bash Blizzard so I won't waste any more time here.

For anyone else who's actually interested in the topic and not just spouting off their hilarious "lol qq moar blu" lines, go ahead and read this for more info:

http://dota-allstars.com/index.html

 

[flarkminator]

Blizzard is releasing a brand new version of DOTA for free on SC2.

There is no such thing as a free product.

 

[Recon]

Bitter about what? And yes, names do matter when you're talking about a game played by 10+ million people.

Not really. I think we are winning by getting more games! So what Valve trademarks a name that no one thought to trademark before. They had every legal right to do so. I played DOTA for years, moved on to HoN, and now im getting DOTA 2, i am not complaining at all. You act like you have some financial investment in this.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

The acronym is bigger, perception wise, than the full name.

That's certainly true, although all of the "couldn't you have explained WTF DOTA is???" posts in the announcement thread belied that fact somewhat :lol

Or, better yet, why don't companies that had nothing to do with creating, developing, or updating a mod quit trying to claim that they own said mod?

What? Both companies are making new versions of it, it's not about trying to claim ownership of the existing mod.

 

[Alex]

Kotick doesn't have any clout with Blizzard, and it's been said countless times. People just like an evil mastermind to point everything on I guess.

And I think Valve is completely in the OK for doing what they did. They wanted a big project out of it, they perused it. I sincerely doubt it'll put Blizzard's free release in any real jeopardy.

Considering the back and forth respect shown between the studios, it seems odd for Pardo to call them out in this manner. Especially when one of their free SC2 in-house mod releases is a L4D homage!

 

[Archie]

There is no such thing as a free product.

League of Legends

Kinda.

If you want to grind for a billion hours.

 

[demigod]

And DOTA would have probably been a forgotten mod if Icefrog hadn't taken over instead of being an immensely popular game that spawned a new genre.

And this is where you're wrong. Someone is bound to pick up the project had Icefrog left just like he took over for Guinsoo. Dota was still the most popular mod when Guinsoo left to make his own game, I guess you never played it back then?

 

[dimb]

Valve saw an opportunity to make a game from a mod, like they do with essentially every project they have done that isn't named Half-Life.

Really? Because it sounds like they are remaking a mod in the interest of turning a profit and adding cloth physics to me.

 

[DopeyFish]

I don't remember id software crying over team fortress

 

[Boonoo]

Yes, Blizzard knows shit about community created content. You know, despite the fact that they continually release and support incredibly robust content creation tools that lead to the creation of things like DOTA in the first place.

SCII says otherwise. From everything I've heard Blizzard has created a horrible environment for custom content.

 

[Rubius]

Blizzard gain sales from a Mod for years and dont give anything to the modders
Valve pick up the Dota team, pay them and support them for Dota 2, and Blizzard whine because now they cant call Starcraft Dota, Dota.
Its not like the modder sit there on Ventrilo and play Dota all day

 

[Interfectum]

Blizzard gain sales from a Mod for years and dont give anything to the modders
Valve pick up the Dota team, pay them and support them for Dota 2, and Blizzard whine because now they cant call Starcraft Dota, Dota.
Its not like the modder sit there on Ventrilo and play Dota all day

:lol @ ignorant valve fans. wow.

 

[HK-47]

Kotick doesn't have any clout with Blizzard, and it's been said countless times. People just like an evil mastermind to point everything on I guess.

And I think Valve is completely in the OK for doing what they did. They wanted a big project out of it, they perused it. I sincerely doubt it'll put Blizzard's free release in any real jeopardy.

Considering the back and forth respect shown between the studios, it seems odd for Pardo to call them out in this manner. Especially when one of their free SC2 in-house mod releases is a L4D homage!

People like to play up that Kotick is behind everything they dont like at Blizzard, but to say he doesnt have some clout is ridiculous. Blizzard reports to him.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

:lol @ ignorant valve fans. wow.

This fanboy shit is so goddamn obnoxious. There are no "valve fans," there are no "blizzard fans," these aren't clans, shut up and grow up.