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[Orbital2060]

It's about both.

They fired the most expendable employees and retained those they thought provided the company with the most value.

People who are 50+ years old are ancient in the creative fields.

Thats just rubbish and false. Creativity has nothing to do with age. Miyamoto-san is one example. There will be plenty more as this business matures, its still pretty young.

 

[Represent.]

Excellent discussion on the Bungification of PS Studios and the massive mismanagement by Jim Ryan and Crew,

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Thats just rubbish and false. Creativity has nothing to do with age. Miyamoto-san is one example. There will be plenty more as this business matures, its still pretty young.

Miyamoto hasn't made a huge game in 20+ years. The prime years for creativity are in your 20s and 30s. Go listen to Mellon Collie and The Infinite Sadness and compare it to the trash Billy Corgan has produced in his 40s and 50s. You see this in so many creative fields.

 

[Kerotan]

I played D2 since launch, but Lightfall was the final nail in the coffin that made me abandon the game.

They sold us an expansion that was the most expensive one they'd ever priced, was the most lacking in content (with half cut-out and sold separately in dungeon and raid passes), with a completely shitty and forgettable story, with the single worst voice-acted character in the history of Destiny (yes... even worse than Phoned-in Peter Drinklage from D1).

They inexplicably jacked up the difficulty of the game, which made doing even the basic activities a chore, and made what was already a grindy-ass game, into a fucking absurd grindfest on a similar level of Korean MMOs.

And to make it even worse, the story went nowhere and ended on a cliffhanger wherein nothing of any real value even happened.

From that point, it was clear Bungie had well and truly gone to shit. So I wasn't going to support their shit any longer. They fucked up with the original D2 launch and first-year expansions, but clawed it back over the next few years, creating one of the best live service games out there... only to shit all the player goodwill down the crapper with LightFall.... You can't make this level of utter fucking blunder twice... players won't forgive you a second time.

Lightfall while not terrible was the worst of the series. Wasn't it already delayed in itself? Probably suffered From COVID disruptions. There's a reason Bungie were happy to sell. They knew the product was lacking and the time was right to cash in.

The problem with lightfall is the highlight of the expansion was fighting a regurgitated calus we'd already beaten when it should have been the witness. Even this Seasonal story was bringing back savathun which was actually more interesting then calus.

I'll get the next expansion then I'll dip for a few years.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I think they have messed up by continuing D2.
Its too big for its own good at the moment- convoluted if you ask me. This coming from someone that has played most of its expansions.

Make a new IP or draw the crowd back in with a fresh next gen D3.

Bungie fucked up the Destiny franchise by firing the writer of the story a month before Destiny 1 original launch, forcing them to delay the release by a year as the writer took the story with him and they were left with a universe/game with no story/lore.

 

[RickMasters]

And people thought Activision was the problem? How long until Bungie start kicking and screaming to be let out of their deal with Sony and try and place the blame on them instead of their selves again?

They are indeed their own worst problem. It became obvious after they got their own way and parted ways with ABK. They are greedy to the core.

 

[Orbital2060]

Miyamoto hasn't made a huge game in 20+ years. The prime years for creativity are in your 20s and 30s. Go listen to Mellon Collie and The Infinite Sadness and compare it to the trash Billy Corgan has produced in his 40s and 50s. You see this in so many creative fields.

Its a completely different field to the music business. And using Smashing Pumpkins as an example is very subjective, I always though they sucked. Meanwhile, Bob Dylan made one of his best albums in years at at around 80 years old. Talent is talent.

With videogames, you have different tools, and a completely different way of doing things. Not comparable. There are many people in the videogame business that are past 50, and doing just as good work as people in their 20s.

 

[diffusionx]

Its a completely different field to the music business. And using Smashing Pumpkins as an example is very subjective, I always though they sucked. Meanwhile, Bob Dylan made one of his best albums in years at at around 80 years old. Talent is talent.

With videogames, you have different tools, and a completely different way of doing things. Not comparable. There are many people in the videogame business that are past 50, and doing just as good work as people in their 20s.

no there's not lmao. Look, when Kickstarter blew up you had all these boomers and gen x'ers coming back and saying they were back to make a spiritual successor to that amazing game they made when they were 23. And you know what, those games SUCKED. If they came out at all. Now there are older people who have taken roles in management and production who still contribute an awful lot, but they're not doing the same work they did at 25. Guys like Sid Meier and Miyamoto have stayed relevant because they have, by their own admission, stepped back and let younger people take the reins and manage projections and infuse them with fresh ideas. I don't even think this is controversial, it just makes intuitive sense.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Its a completely different field to the music business. And using Smashing Pumpkins as an example is very subjective, I always though they sucked. Meanwhile, Bob Dylan made one of his best albums in years at at around 80 years old. Talent is talent.

With videogames, you have different tools, and a completely different way of doing things. Not comparable. There are many people in the videogame business that are past 50, and doing just as good work as people in their 20s.

The exception to the rule. For every Bob Dylan there are hundreds of musical acts who suck on their old age. You can't look at these artistic mediums and not recognize the overall trend of people being at their creative peak on their 20s and 30s.

Videogames are no different. It's a young person's game. It's very difficult to get someone in their mid 50s to understand what teenagers want.

 

[Bond007]

Bungie fucked up the Destiny franchise by firing the writer of the story a month before Destiny 1 original launch, forcing them to delay the release by a year as the writer took the story with him and they were left with a universe/game with no story/lore.

Sure the story suffered and was bland to start. But clearly we are at D2 and nearly 10yrs in- this didnt fuck anything up realistically.
The problem is they are milking a tired game at this point. Its time to leave it behind or make a followup where you can get old heads(me) back on board and newbies without feeling so far behind in content.

 

[Diddy X]

Microsoft sure dodged a bullet by not acquiring that mess of a developer, they knew well what they were doing.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Sure the story suffered and was bland to start. But clearly we are at D2 and nearly 10yrs in- this didnt fuck anything up realistically.
The problem is they are milking a tired game at this point. Its time to leave it behind or make a followup where you can get old heads(me) back on board and newbies without feeling so far behind in content.

D2 was fucked because Bungie rebooted the entire game development a year before release.

 

[mckmas8808]

So nobody wants to talk about this new information?

 

[ArtHands]

Microsoft sure dodged a bullet by not acquiring that mess of a developer, they knew well what they were doing.

Bungie under Microsoft is no longer the same Bungie under Sony now. Especially with so many leaving in recent days

 

[SEGAvangelist]

So nobody wants to talk about this new information?

Blame all still goes uphill.

 

[mckmas8808]

Blame all still goes uphill.

Yes! Uphill to Bungie's management. They did the layoffs, not Sony.

 

[Mephisto40]

As much as Destiny players want you to think the game is thriving, it isnt

 

[midnightAI]

Excellent discussion on the Bungification of PS Studios and the massive mismanagement by Jim Ryan and Crew,

Now I like MBG, seems like a nice guy, but his takes are almost always knee jerk doom and gloom, he has zero insiders, he gets most of his info from forums etc.

 

[midnightAI]

So nobody wants to talk about this new information?

why? it doesn't suit the narrative obviously

 

[graywolf323]

Blame all still goes uphill.

so we’re agreed that we’ll apply that standard across the board then?

 

[P:axMagellanic]

So they've sacked senior artists and long time musicians? The only reason to play this shit game is to gawk at the pretty skyboxes and hear the soundtrack.

 

[yurinka]

And they let these guys dictate what Sony most successful studios are doing.

Bungie doesn't do that. Bungie only joined a team where there's also SIE publishing, PS Studios manament and representation from the related teams of the different PS Studios. That team is in charge of reviewing GaaS specific things only for GaaS games.

Bungie isn't related with PS Studios game greenlight process, game design or PS Studios milestone approval process, specially for non-GaaS titles.

Karma for canceling Factions.

Where did Sony or ND said they cancelled Factions?

Because a few months ago they said the opposite, that are working on it:

 

[sinnergy]

So they've sacked senior artists and long time musicians? The only reason to play this shit game is to gawk at the pretty skyboxes and hear the soundtrack.

The people that cost the most are fired, real classy but happens everywhere.. sort term looking .

 

[P:axMagellanic]

The people that cost the most are fired, real classy but happens everywhere.. sort term looking .

It's really absurd. The art and music is what elevated the game over the all the usual GAAS shite on the market.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

Miyamoto hasn't made a huge game in 20+ years. The prime years for creativity are in your 20s and 30s. Go listen to Mellon Collie and The Infinite Sadness and compare it to the trash Billy Corgan has produced in his 40s and 50s. You see this in so many creative fields.

Funny enough I’m a Gish and Siamese Dream man and feel Melon Collie and the Infinite Saddness was the starting point of the downward spiral….

Other then that I tend to agree with the age thing.

 

[Punished Miku]

Funny enough I’m a Gish and Siamese Dream man and feel Melon Collie and the Infinite Saddness was the starting point of the downward spiral….

Other then that I tend to agree with the age thing.

It's got a solid normal sized album in there and a whole album of mostly bad b-sides to make it a double disc.
Adore is one of their best and that's after.
Then decline.

 

[Thirty7ven]

It's really absurd. The art and music is what elevated the game over the all the usual GAAS shite on the market.

If you’re just worried about the studio then take comfort in the fact they were let go instead of them leaving because they no longer wanted to work there. That’s how it is right? If they wanted to stay and you have them in such high regard then surely that’s a positive thing for the future of the studio, after all there’s no controversy here.

Bungie is really big, even after this wave of lay offs they are over 1k.

It’s completely normal in a creative industry for studios to change talent. What’s more concerning is when studio and project leads leave in the middle of a project, which usually means trouble.

Bungie is being targeted by a massive amount of fud.

 

[MetalFreak]

At this point, it is a shit game for new players to get into and the current ones will eventually get fed up I guess.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Excellent discussion on the Bungification of PS Studios and the massive mismanagement by Jim Ryan and Crew,

This gave me cancer. It gave everyone who watched it cancer too.

The guys central premise is...Bungie laid off 100 people from their 1,200 person company, therefore PlayStations Live Service initiative has "clearly failed" and to deny it means you're in denial. He then goes on to say that maybe PlayStation should cancel the Live Service games they have in development.

OMG, I now have AIDS.

Jim Jones and his Jonestown cult thinks this is a bit much.

 

[Dynasty8]

This gave me cancer. It gave everyone who watched it cancer too.

The guys central premise is...Bungie laid off 100 people from their 1,200 person company, therefore PlayStations Live Service initiative has "clearly failed" and to deny it means you're in denial. He then goes on to say that maybe PlayStation should cancel the Live Service games they have in development.

OMG, I now have AIDS.

Jim Jones and his Jonestown cult thinks this is a bit much.

Yup, watched for a few mins and closed it. People are so quick to panic and jump to conclusions.

 

[StealthGoblin]

The layoffs are sad but by God gave things been blown out of proportion recently.

I think Bungie's biggest issue is that Destiny 2 is tailing off and they don't have Marathon close enough to make up for it.

 

[GloveSlap]

Has there ever been a more obtuse game for new players? Genuinely curious.

 

[Punished Miku]

Has there ever been a more obtuse game for new players? Genuinely curious.

Final Fantasy XI maybe.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

The exception to the rule. For every Bob Dylan there are hundreds of musical acts who suck on their old age. You can't look at these artistic mediums and not recognize the overall trend of people being at their creative peak on their 20s and 30s.

Videogames are no different. It's a young person's game. It's very difficult to get someone in their mid 50s to understand what teenagers want.

If we focus on pandering to the teens, all we will be left with is Fortnite clones. Single-player stories would go extinct.

 

[ChoosableOne]

Seriously, Halo is everything I wish Destiny was.

Nothing can upset you in this life.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Yup, watched for a few mins and closed it. People are so quick to panic and jump to conclusions.

I don't even think it's panic.

It's people wanting to believe something so badly that they'll spin any and every event as proof that what they believe is true.

The anti GAAS crowd is so desperate for things to revert back to the way they once were. But they...

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

If we focus on pandering to the teens, all we will be left with is Fortnite clones. Single-player stories would go extinct.

The medium is way too nascent for this to be true. As if there's no multiplayer centric games that appeal to mature gamers.

Single player stories aren't going extinct. They just won't recieve the same investment percentage they once did 10 or 20 years ago.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I think its rather obvious Destiny is in no mans land now. New players won't touch it with a 10 foot pole and old timers will abandon ship.

They should axe Destiny 2 now that popularity is fading, and start fresh. If they have something thats good and easy to expand from the base game they have a much more certain future. Destiny was anything but, its reception was cold and it was difficult to expand. They clearly lacked experience.

 

[Dynasty8]

The infamous question we always see is "people still play this game?". The answer is yes, many. For good reason too.

Most people will always bring up how good the gameplay and gunplay feels. They're not wrong. It's one of the best feeling shooters on the market even after all these years.

I will also admit that the game is flooded with bullshit, including a terrible new player experience and tons of microtransactions. No one's fault there but Bungie's.

For those of us who've been there since the beginning, it's still a very, very fun time, especially with friends...and quite honestly, there isn't a single game on the market that resembles Destiny 2. I wish there was, but nothing like it exists. The raids and dungeons mixed with the tight FPS gameplay and deep loot and customization can't be found anywhere else. So until another game comes along, I feel like Destiny will continue being played.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Microsoft sure dodged a bullet by not acquiring that mess of a developer, they knew well what they were doing.

Explain Bethesda then

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I think its rather obvious Destiny is in no mans land now. New players won't touch it with a 10 foot pole and old timers will abandon ship.

They should axe Destiny 2 now that popularity is fading, and start fresh. If they have something thats good and easy to expand from the base game they have a much more certain future. Destiny was anything but, its reception was cold and it was difficult to expand. They clearly lacked experience.

Destiny is a 10 year old title that’s still massively relevant

They aren’t perfect but they’re one of the few that is successful in this space

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

It's crazy how infrequently you hear about Destinys weak gameplay loop as it's main issue.

Halo: CE, released in 2001, had a number of huge setpiece, sandbox moments where you felt like you were participating in a large scale battle. The kind of moments you talk with your friends about at school the next day.

Destiny has none of that. It's just running forward mindlessly. It's a podcast game where you can daydream about other stuff in your life.

If you can focus on other things in your life while playing a game, your game just isn't very good.

The art, gunfeel, story, and sounds (all of which are high quality - maybe not the story) can only take you so far.

That weak gameplay loop makes interacting with the obtuse menu system feel much more difficult than it actually is.

Bungie should move on from Destiny ASAP and it sounds like they're doing that.

Why am I creating a new paragraph after every sentence?

 

[ByWatterson]

Nothing can upset you in this life.

....except Destiny