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[Bloomberg] Sony Deal With Microsoft Blindsided Its Own PlayStation Team.

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...microsoft-blindsided-its-own-playstation-team

Last week, the companies announced a strategic partnership to co-develop game streaming technology and host some of PlayStation’s online services on the Redmond-based company’s Azure cloud platform. It comes after PlayStation spent seven years developing its own cloud gaming offering, with limited success.

Negotiations with Microsoft began last year and were handled directly by Sony’s senior management in Tokyo, largely without the involvement of the PlayStation unit, according to people familiar with the matter. Staff at the gaming division were caught off-guard by the news. Managers had to calm workers and assure them that plans for the company’s next-generation console weren’t affected, said the people, asking not to be identified discussing private matters.

That difficult moment is part of a painful lesson that Sony and many other technology companies are facing as the world’s leading cloud-computing providers become more powerful. If you aren’t spending billions of dollars a year on data centers, servers and network gear, you can’t keep up.

Faster internet speeds are starting to allow games to be played remotely without the need for a local machine. That’s a threat to PlayStation, which generates a third of Sony’s profits. Microsoft’s Xbox faces a similar risk, but the software giant has the second-largest cloud service, so it has a strategic answer. The other leading cloud providers, Google and Amazon.com Inc., are building their own cloud-gaming services.

Realizing that his home-grown cloud service isn’t going to cut it, Sony Chief Executive Officer Kenichiro Yoshida is being forced to collaborate, rather than confront his old gaming nemesis.

“Sony feels threatened by this trend and the mighty Google, and has decided to leave its network infrastructure build-up to Microsoft,” said Asymmetric Advisors strategist Amir Anvarzadeh. “Why would they sleep with the enemy unless they feel threatened?”

Sony jumped 9.9% on Friday, the most in 18 months. The company also announced a record share buyback, but analysts pointed to Yoshida’s speed in responding to a shifting video-game industry as a positive factor.

This shows "a new Sony" and should be applauded by investors, SMBC Nikko Securities Inc. analyst Ryosuke Katsura wrote in a report. “Management is adapting rapidly to change."

A Sony spokesman confirmed that talks with Microsoft began last year, but declined to provide further details.

Sony became the first big video game company to enter cloud gaming when it bought U.S. startup Gaikai Inc. in 2012 for $380 million. Three years later, it rolled out PlayStation Now, letting users play games hosted on servers miles from their living rooms. The service has since attracted 700,000 paying subscribers, but a decision to host it in-house has led to on-going complaints about choppy connectivity.

"PlayStation Now has been a very limited service," said David Cole, founder and chief executive officer of DFC Intelligence.

The company’s other online game service and main cash cow, PlayStation Network, enables multiplayer matches of games running on PlayStation 4 consoles. For now that is still hosted by the other giant of cloud computing: Amazon Web Services. Sony and Amazon held talks last year for a deeper collaboration on cloud gaming, but couldn’t agree on commercial terms, according to a person familiar with the matter. That led to Sony’s discussions with Microsoft, the person said. Amazon is currently developing its own cloud gaming service, the Information reported last year.

The pivot toward Microsoft was preceded by several key personnel changes at Sony, including moving some senior PlayStation Now staff to other divisions, the person said. PlayStation boss John Kodera, who rose through the ranks running the network side, was also replaced in February, a little more than a year after taking the top job.

The key question is who really wins from the partnership. Most analysts agree that, at least in the short-to-medium term, it’s a positive for Sony. Cloud gaming isn’t ready for prime time yet. When Google unveiled Stadia in March, some users reported mixed results including delays in registering actions and reduced graphics quality.

Cloud gaming will account for just 2% of the industry’s revenue by 2023, according to IHS Markit. That’s why Sony and Microsoft are moving ahead with their next-gen consoles, expected next year. Securing access to Azure gives Yoshida a powerful hedge against a future scenario where cloud gaming does end up making consoles obsolete.

Microsoft may come out an even bigger winner. The Xbox unit continues to churn out games and consoles, but is now increasing focus on ways to sell more cloud software. In March, it announced a lineup of services for game development and cloud hosting that it’s hawking to game companies of all sizes. Landing console king Sony makes it more likely that Azure, and not Amazon or Google, becomes the industry standard for cloud deployment.

"Microsoft is the clear winner that Sony picked their technology even though they are a direct competitor in the gaming space," said DFC’s Cole.

Over the long-term, some are warning Sony could be the loser. Currently it charges publishers like Electronic Arts Inc. and Capcom Co. up to 30% of sales made through PlayStation consoles. But if streaming takes off, it will have to compete against Microsoft while paying its rival for cloud access. That could leave Sony struggling to stand out both on technical and pricing terms.

"This move raises some serious questions about its future dominance," said Anvarzadeh of Asymmetric Advisors.

It’s also unclear how antitrust regulators will respond to two of the three players in the console market teaming up to develop a key technology, especially as it involves the world’s largest company by market value. Cooperation by the No. 1 and No. 2 in any industry -- say AT&T Inc. and Verizon Communications Inc. -- to the determent of rivals would likely prompt push-back.

Regardless of when and if cloud gaming takes off, securing exclusive titles will continue to be critical for Sony, according to Piers Harding-Rolls, IHS Markit’s head of games research. Similar to how Netflix Inc. fights Prime Video while relying on Amazon for cloud hosting, and how Apple Inc. competes against Samsung Electronics Co. while buying its components, Sony’s core strategy of accumulating a strong lineup of games remains unchanged.

"Exclusive content remains key," said Harding-Rolls.
 
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Stuart360

Member
The only bit of the article that matters -

Cloud gaming will account for just 2% of the industry’s revenue by 2023, according to IHS Markit

giphy.gif
 

ksdixon

Member
I still don't understand the reason, neccessarilly.

Sony's strengths are story-based and/or single player games, maybe with a multiplayer mode (example: The Last Of Us). Not Games-As-A-Service/Live Services games.

I do wish that we could download games through PSNow, like on GamePass, rather than the streaming-only option, but that seems to have nothing to do with using MS's datacenters for streaming.

If MS's datacenters are being used by PSNow, now, to stream games, then what becomes of the old Gaikai technology for streaming/SharePlay etc?
 

Stuart360

Member
I still don't understand the reason, neccessarilly.

Sony's strengths are story-based and/or single player games, maybe with a multiplayer mode (example: The Last Of Us). Not Games-As-A-Service/Live Services games.

I do wish that we could download games through PSNow, like on GamePass, rather than the streaming-only option, but that seems to have nothing to do with using MS's datacenters for streaming.

If MS's datacenters are being used by PSNow, now, to stream games, then what becomes of the old Gaikai technology for streaming/SharePlay etc?
Sony already said they want to do more multiplayer stuff next gen, and Microsoft will certainly be doing more single player stuff. Its going to be an interesting gen.
Besides, as much as most of us dont want it (and myself included), streaming is the future. The only question is how distant that future is. Microsoft have been preparing for that future, and Sony have to too.
 

ksdixon

Member
Sony already said they want to do more multiplayer stuff next gen, and Microsoft will certainly be doing more single player stuff. Its going to be an interesting gen.
Besides, as much as most of us dont want it (and myself included), streaming is the future. The only question is how distant that future is. Microsoft have been preparing for that future, and Sony have to too.

Ah right, I wasn't aware Sony and MS had stated they wanted to do a double-turn and play more in each other's wheel houses. That could be... interesting, I think? I think Sony are going to lose some of their... identity... though next gen, especially with former exclusive houses like Until Dawn or David Cage games going multiplatform.

But overall I still don't understand how streaming is supposedly going to take-off as much as the gaming press would have people believe? I know my own internet isn't good enough for that in the UK at 50GB down, and all I hear is that the USA's internet is supposed to be even worse for coverage or choice of provider.

I get that streaming and subscription services is like the hot buzzword, a la Netflix, but there's a world of difference between pressing play on a video file and registering inputs from your controller without lag and freezing, ya know? There are times when games are rubber-banding all over the place in normal online multiplayer based on the dynamics of different people's pings, and that's when playing the game natively, without a streaming component to factor-into everything.
 

Stuart360

Member
Ah right, I wasn't aware Sony and MS had stated they wanted to do a double-turn and play more in each other's wheel houses. That could be... interesting, I think? I think Sony are going to lose some of their... identity... though next gen, especially with former exclusive houses like Until Dawn or David Cage games going multiplatform.

But overall I still don't understand how streaming is supposedly going to take-off as much as the gaming press would have people believe? I know my own internet isn't good enough for that in the UK at 50GB down, and all I hear is that the USA's internet is supposed to be even worse for coverage or choice of provider.

I get that streaming and subscription services is like the hot buzzword, a la Netflix, but there's a world of difference between pressing play on a video file and registering inputs from your controller without lag and freezing, ya know? There are times when games are rubber-banding all over the place in normal online multiplayer based on the dynamics of different people's pings, and that's when playing the game natively, without a streaming component to factor-into everything.
Eh thats more than good enough, you only need like 4-5mb a sec according to Google. You're right though, streaming is certainly going to be nothing more than an extra 'option' with how to game, for the forseeable future (at least 10 years imo). You still have to plan for that future though.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Makes sense. Why reinvent the wheel.

Sony doesn't have confidence in their own internal cloud/streaming services, so to ensure it works for games, movies, music etc..... partner with someone.

Supposedly there's only a handful of huge cloud companies, including MS and Amazon (from what I remember), and only a handful of other ones.

MS probably offered the best service/value, so they took it.

Sony gets reliable cloud features, MS gets more profitable cloud revenue. Win win.

Of course, fanboys will see this as some kind of backstabbing betrayal as if every company has to work in 100% isolation from every other company in the world. lol

Video game rivals partner..... OMG the world is falling. But your favourite TV and cell phone brands can have chips made by rivals implanted right inside the plastic case. Yet nobody cares.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Regardless of when and if cloud gaming takes off, securing exclusive titles will continue to be critical for Sony, according to Piers Harding-Rolls, IHS Markit’s head of games research. Similar to how Netflix Inc. fights Prime Video while relying on Amazon for cloud hosting, and how Apple Inc. competes against Samsung Electronics Co. while buying its components, Sony’s core strategy of accumulating a strong lineup of games remains unchanged.

Indeed and they took some dramatic twists and doom and gloom turns before coming to the kernel of truth... if this came as a shock it was to a very small part of the PSNow guys. There has been no sign in 3+ years about Sony wanting to become a cloud provider and start building its own custom data centers, especially as they are moving to a more PC like architecture (where the customisations done on the console SoC could even be brute forces by the PC based server blades PS4 and PS5 games streaming require).

Beyond the custom PS3 based server blades, PSNow is like Netflix (which does not just compete, but beats Prime in just about every metric... it is possible while sharing the same AWS cloud): a software service independent from the cloud provider they partner with (see also that the article does not say anything about AWS going away as the backing of their very high revenue generating PSN/PSan+ service).

No doubt a good host of usual suspects will come in and cherry pick console war pieces for ages :LOL:. Interested in EETAsia / Nikkei overview of this deal too in addition to Bloomberg btw.
 
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Psykodad

Banned
I still don't understand the reason, neccessarilly.

Sony's strengths are story-based and/or single player games, maybe with a multiplayer mode (example: The Last Of Us). Not Games-As-A-Service/Live Services games.

I do wish that we could download games through PSNow, like on GamePass, rather than the streaming-only option, but that seems to have nothing to do with using MS's datacenters for streaming.

If MS's datacenters are being used by PSNow, now, to stream games, then what becomes of the old Gaikai technology for streaming/SharePlay etc?
Well, Sony recently stated they would focus more on online multiplayer games than they did so far, so there's that.
 

Silver Wattle

Gold Member
While I think it was the right move, to not involve the PlayStation people AKA the ones who are making most of Sony's money is a bad move.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
I imagine that Sony moving out of Amazon servers will also have a negative impact for Amazon. Sony is no small customer.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I imagine that Sony moving out of Amazon servers will also have a negative impact for Amazon. Sony is no small customer.

Uhm.... sure AWS did not win the expanded PSNow contract, but PSN remains with them... although Azure may help as an additional cloud provider there too.
The company’s other online game service and main cash cow, PlayStation Network, enables multiplayer matches of games running on PlayStation 4 consoles. For now that is still hosted by the other giant of cloud computing: Amazon Web Services.

Overall this is good for MS’s goals as a Services provider, good for Sony’s PlayStation as they can keep scaling with a strong dual supplier solution, good for Xbox as they work on game streaming together.
 

Elenchus

Banned
Doesn’t sound like this is a well coordinated and fully considered move. Sounds like there was quite a bit of scrambling and desperation if this was completed so quickly that word did not reach PS staff until after the partnership had been struck.

How could this be considered for weeks or months by Sony leadership without it leaking internally to PS staff? Must’ve been a rapid fire deal which is why it’s secured with only a memorandum of understanding and not a formal agreement. Seems like the fear in Sony HQ is very real.
 

VAL0R

Banned
Sony and Nintendo paying M$ rent now, lol. Better make sure those checks clear by the fifth of every month or Phil is gonna pull the "offline" lever.
 
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DanielsM

Banned
If MS's datacenters are being used by PSNow, now, to stream games, then what becomes of the old Gaikai technology for streaming/SharePlay etc?

Gaikai technology isn't going away, if anything it might be licensed out. I would assume SharePlay, PS Now, and Remote Play will all work the same way. Microsoft has been working on game streaming for a decade. Literally there are 100s of services on Azure and Amazon AWS which could in theory be used.... and are being used today by Sony. The press release says nothing about using Microsoft for game streaming, it says its a collaboration i.e. Sony already has tech and it has been working 5-6 years. Why would Sony's tech go away? LOL

Don't worry though... nobody gives a shit about streaming anyway - lots of dreams.
 
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Gamernyc78

Banned
So Sony teams up with MS just to prevent Google from becoming powerful in the gaming streaming area... Interesting.
(meanwhile, Nintendo is mesmerised by a shiny object it found on the floor)

Wo deribg if that shiny item has any online capabilities lol 😂😂😂
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
The reality that Sony is/was facing is that anyone with whom they partner for cloud service expansion will be a direct competitor in future. So why not deal with MS if they are proffering the best terms? Its also a good way of leveraging a better deal with AWS or Google by threatening to take their substantial business elsewhere.

Sony are not in the cloud infrastructure business in nearly the same way that MS, Google and Amazon are, its a business pillar for all three of these companies. Sony just need it as part of their ongoing expansion plans for the Playstation division.

In this scenario, they are very much like Netflix. They are better positioned to invest in content over infrastructure because that's what they've been doing for years and where their strengths lie. The thing that Sony has that the others don't regarding streamed gaming, is years of detailed data accrued from running their own service in the wild. This is valuable intelligence going forwards in terms of understanding what that market wants in terms of content and services.
 

Riven326

Banned
Sony already said they want to do more multiplayer stuff next gen, and Microsoft will certainly be doing more single player stuff. Its going to be an interesting gen.
Besides, as much as most of us dont want it (and myself included), streaming is the future. The only question is how distant that future is. Microsoft have been preparing for that future, and Sony have to too.
What I don't understand is the push back. Sure, Sony excels at single player games. But that doesn't mean they can't also make great multiplayer games. Fear of Sony embracing the live service model is completely understandable however.
 
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DanielsM

Banned
What I don't understand is the push back. Sure, Sony excels at single player games. But that doesn't mean they can't also make great multiplayer games. Fear of Sony embracing the live service model is completely is understandable however.

My most played multiplayer game this cycle was Killzone Shadow Fall and Mercenary by quite a margin. Of course, I don't MP as much as I use to with friends. I'm expecting a heavy MP game from GG early in the cycle again.
 

Riven326

Banned
My most played multiplayer game this cycle was Killzone Shadow Fall and Mercenary by quite a margin. Of course, I don't MP as much as I use to with friends. I'm expecting a heavy MP game from GG early in the cycle again.
I like to use Killzone as an argument for why change and risk are good. GG could have stuck with it throughout this generation and we would never have seen Horizon. They took a risk and it paid off. It benefits Killzone as well. The devs will come back to the series with fresh eyes next time.

Point being, developers, publishers, and hardware manufacturers, should strive to break out of their comfort zone and try new things. It's healthy for the industry and gamers alike.
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
What I don't understand is the push back. Sure, Sony excels at single player games. But that doesn't mean they can't also make great multiplayer games. Fear of Sony embracing the live service model is completely understandable however.

Sony has made many and great mp games in the past it's not like it's new to them. Little big planet regardless of anything was an mp focused game. With a big following and thousands of creations. Warhawk was dope asf. Mag was really good, had a following but didn't catch on. Gt of course main focus was mp and was good. Killzone mp was great. Uncharted mp imo is one of the best for tps. They just want to hit it big with a gaas mp game and tht takes continued investment in tht genre.
 
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DanielsM

Banned
I like to use Killzone as an argument for why change and risk are good. GG could have stuck with it throughout this generation and we would never have seen Horizon. They took a risk and it paid off. It benefits Killzone as well. The devs will come back to the series with fresh eyes next time.

Point being, developers, publishers, and hardware manufacturers, should strive to break out of their comfort zone and try new things. It's healthy for the industry and gamers alike.

I actually suggested in the Days Gone OT that it should be the basis for the next Socom. Socom: Days Gone. So, the roots of the original Socom using Days Gone tech plus having co-op horde mode type game modes as well.

Saber actually did a pitch for MP in Days Gone.
 

wipeout364

Member
This was inevitable, Sony doesn't Have the cash to compete in this realm of server farms so it was always going to have to partner with someone, I personally think Microsoft is a better choice than Amazon.

People who are saying 2 % is small are the same people who said paid access to services when Xbox live launched , and digital distribution ( at the start of the PS3/360 gen) were no big deal and would never take off.

This always online streaming future is happening and it will be a slow start followed by a massive uptake when the tech and game development for it hit their stride in the next 10 years.
 

ethomaz

Banned
What that even means?

Today Sony pays 3rd cloud servers to host their services... a deal with Azure if give them more reliable service at lower cost is great.

But what that has to do with Sony's PlayStation Team???
 
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ethomaz

Banned
This was inevitable, Sony doesn't Have the cash to compete in this realm of server farms so it was always going to have to partner with someone, I personally think Microsoft is a better choice than Amazon.

People who are saying 2 % is small are the same people who said paid access to services when Xbox live launched , and digital distribution ( at the start of the PS3/360 gen) were no big deal and would never take off.

This always online streaming future is happening and it will be a slow start followed by a massive uptake when the tech and game development for it hit their stride in the next 10 years.
Wait... Sony never had the goal to create a cloud servers services lol

They actually rent from 3rd parties to their use.
 
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Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
This was inevitable, Sony doesn't Have the cash to compete in this realm of server farms so it was always going to have to partner with someone, I personally think Microsoft is a better choice than Amazon

Having the cash is not the issue, they simply don't have the need to invest in this sort of infrastructure unless they are intending to get in on cloud services as a major business spoke.

Ultimately they are just future-proofing a currently successful business, not branching out in a whole new business direction.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Now Sony can go back to their original plans and put PSNow on TVs, phone, and tablets like they had it 2 years ago.
 

longdi

Banned
When Stadia was announced, i said Sony doesnt have the infra to compete. Lol and guess they had to go with MS instead of AWS.
The scary thing is all three major cloud providers are from US, some crazy Trump admin may start banning or spying on foreigners.
Im sure China will have their cloud proivders soon.
Pity Japan never recovered and lost their economy, of all country we should expect Japan have a major player.
 

Gamernyc78

Banned
Wait... Sony never had the goal to create a cloud servers services lol

They actually rent from 3rd parties to their use.

Yeah what is this dude even talking about lol A billion dollar corporation doesn't have the cash lol no, its that shit not only takes money but time and there's no time for that now, Microsoft has it because of their computer business first and foremost.
 
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REDRZA MWS

Member
They should jump full in on uber powerful console, the Xstation. All of Sonys great first party games, and Xbox Live. Get er done.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
One of the most cringy worthy articles I have read in some time and that's saying something with windowscentral and thurrott around.

Why would you say cringe worthy? Was it some of the words of the anaysts?
 

DanielsM

Banned
Why would you say cringe worthy? Was it some of the words of the anaysts?

Let me show you how I could spin things if I want to.

It comes after PlayStation spent seven years developing its own cloud gaming offering, with limited success.

It comes after Microsoft has spent nearly a decade trying to develop its own cloud gaming offering but it has repeatedly ended in failure.

Negotiations with Microsoft began last year and were handled directly by Sony’s senior management in Tokyo, largely without the involvement of the PlayStation unit, according to people familiar with the matter. Staff at the gaming division were caught off-guard by the news.

Negotiations with Sony began last year and were handled directly by Microsoft's senior management in Redmond, largely without the involvement of the Xbox unit, according to people familiar with the matter. Staff at the Xbox brand were caught off-guard by the news.

That difficult moment is part of a painful lesson that Sony and many other technology companies are facing as the world’s leading cloud-computing providers become more powerful. If you aren’t spending billions of dollars a year on data centers, servers and network gear, you can’t keep up.

Doesn't explain why Microsoft doesn't have a cloud gaming service up and running 10 years ago or why Google is still struggling to get off the ground, and where is Amazon?

Faster internet speeds are starting to allow games to be played remotely without the need for a local machine. That’s a threat to PlayStation, which generates a third of Sony’s profits. Microsoft’s Xbox faces a similar risk, but the software giant has the second-largest cloud service, so it has a strategic answer. The other leading cloud providers, Google and Amazon.com Inc., are building their own cloud-gaming services.

The internet speeds have been fast enough for 10-12 years for 80% of the cloud gaming audience. There really is no solution for latency.

Realizing that his home-grown cloud service isn’t going to cut it, Sony Chief Executive Officer Kenichiro Yoshida is being forced to collaborate, rather than confront his old gaming nemesis.

Versus Microsoft, Amazon, and Google's home grown services that don't exist. Sony has never claimed their tech wouldn't be used. Yoshida never gave an interview.

Sony became the first big video game company to enter cloud gaming when it bought U.S. startup Gaikai Inc. in 2012 for $380 million. Three years later, it rolled out PlayStation Now, letting users play games hosted on servers miles from their living rooms. The service has since attracted 700,000 paying subscribers, but a decision to host it in-house has led to on-going complaints about choppy connectivity.

What is "choppy connectivity", if that is the issue going to a Microsoft data center isn't going to change anything.

"PlayStation Now has been a very limited service," said David Cole, founder and chief executive officer of DFC Intelligence.

How so? Nothing in the article to explain. Its limited but Microsoft, Amazon and Google don't have any service as an example.

For now that is still hosted by the other giant of cloud computing: Amazon Web Services.

He's now onto traditional client-server gaming, but most online games are P2P, the ones that are not its up to the individual developer/publisher to implement their own backend systems not Sony. This at most would only pertain to Sony published MP games. He clearly has no idea how the industry works - the network components of online games is generally up to dev/pub.

Microsoft may come out an even bigger winner. The Xbox unit continues to churn out games and consoles, but is now increasing focus on ways to sell more cloud software.

Well, I'm sure Nadella believes Microsoft is the bigger winner as he wants is to sell services. The problem here the author wants to spin this as Xbox unit is "churning" games and consoles, implying they are doing well....

It’s also unclear how antitrust regulators will respond to two of the three players in the console market teaming up to develop a key technology, especially as it involves the world’s largest company by market value. Cooperation by the No. 1 and No. 2 in any industry -- say AT&T Inc. and Verizon Communications Inc. -- to the determent of rivals would likely prompt push-back.

This has got to be the dumbest thing he wrote yet, what does anti-trust have to do with anything. LOL They're not merging they don't need regularity permission to have an agreement.

All they have done is signed an agreement to start working together at least from the press release, even if he were correct... there are virtually no paying cloud customers anyway. He jumps to a whole bunch of conclusion about stuff he doesn't even understand. Most likely he made up the "people familiar" part as well, but the press release could absolutely take back anyone if they don't know what is going on.

Amazon, Google and Microsoft really don't have any of the services that Sony has going in whole.... meaning game streaming, game streaming from your own equipment, cable channel streaming etc. They have video and even parts of streaming cable, but Sony is years ahead of these guys in everything else, the problem everyone is investing in streaming technology but there are limited customers. LOL

What is very silly about all this is, I don't believe either PS Now or xCloud the consoles are running in virtual machines. This is actually worse than all the Crackdown 3 stuff.
 
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