• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Blu-ray ROM to use "Super" version of H.264 codec!!

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
News of which advance coded Blu-ray would be using seemed to be an important issue for some, so I figure I would post what I found out here...

It seems that Blu-Ray ROM disks will use H. 264/AVC FRExt (also known as MPEG-4 AVC High Profile )

MPEG-4 AVC High Profile is an improved version of H.264. Its using some of the same technology that Microsoft's WM9/VC-9 use to get better HD results at comparable bit rates.(Standard H.264 was designed for SD video and bit rates, though you *can* use it for HD) This may be the reason the Blu-ray group may never need to license VC-9 from Microsoft:

blu_09.jpg


Here is the jinglish article about MPEG-4 AVC High Profile....H. 264/AVC FRExt...whatever you want to call it.

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/engli...cles/0407/09/news074.html&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2

Column
2004/07/09 Renewal of 20:29



Does it begin to move by "H. the 264/AVC improvement version"?

The situation of a next-generation optical disc (1/3)

H.264/AVC was recognized by the ad BANSUDO codec (high compression codec) by DVD Forum which promotes HD DVD. The Blu-ray Disc camp made required [ MPEG-2 ] is also advancing evaluation to HD image with the improvement version "H. 264/AVC FRExt" of H.264/AVC. The next-generation optical disc relation which was the motion under the water surface until now began to become active suddenly by H.264/AVC FRExt.

Although H.264/AVC and VC-9 (codec for broadcast/distribution media carried out based on the video compression algorithm of Windows Media Video 9) were recognized as an ad BANSUDO codec (high compression codec) at the board of governors of DVD Forum on the other day, on the other hand, the Blu-ray Disc (BD) camp was also advancing evaluation of an ad BANSUDO codec uniquely.

It is "H. 264/AVC FRExt" that BD camp is evaluating and inquiring. It is the codec which improved H.264/AVC of the schedule recognized in the MPEG committee soon. "FRExt" is the abbreviation for Fidelity Range Extention, and the width of the animation for which H.264/AVC is adapted by this can be expanded. The merit of H.264/AVC specifically optimized by the image of SD resolution extends so that HD image may also be harnessed.

H. Extension which makes 264/AVC the optimal codec also for HD image
BD camp has said that not H.264/AVC but MPEG-2 are required, in order to harness the fine detail information on HD image until now. Refer to the coverage report of PHL. . Although the reason was [ H.264/AVC ] very excellent in the quality of image of SD image, it was that the detail of the domain where the space frequency which is the feature is high is lost about HD image.

Same examination/evaluation result has the circumstances by which it was shown by DVD Forum, consequently not only H.264/AVC but VC-9 were added to the ad BANSUDO codec of HD DVD. As for the compressive ability of HD image, by the test of those days, VC-9 were higher. Those days, each movie studio company of Hollywood says that it was carrying out to "Why quality of image is worse than MPEG-2 although it is the new codec which collected the latest technology" to H.264/AVC at the mouth.

The technology in which FRExt can wipe away "the unfavorable criticism of H.264/AVC" in such a HD image is incorporated.

Being extended by FRExt is the 8x8 transformer form and the quantization procession (Quantization matrix) which were introduced into a color sampling format, the number of sampling bits, and it by MPEG-2. Although HHI and SandVideo (Broadcom purchases) had proposed the proposal [ except a quantization procession ] at the end of last year, it proposed that Matsushita Electric Industrial added a quantization procession to this, and it was decided mostly that a new profile called a FRExt profile joins H.264/AVC. Now, what added 1 color sampling format by the addition is made into final specification, and it is formally decided in the meeting of JVT (Joint Video Team) performed closely that it will be H.264/AVC FRExt by which temporary recognition is carried out.

H. 264/AVC FRExt combines the high definition-ized tool proved [ profile / Main / of H.264/AVC ] by MPEG-2 so to speak. The same of dividing into the grid of 8x8 and performing transformer form is said of MPEG-2 and the method are the same (MPEG4 4x4), and using a quantization procession. As for these two techniques, VC-9 are used.

In addition, in H.264/AVC FRExt, since decoder specification changes, the decoder for Main profiles of H.264/AVC cannot be used, if it remains as it is. However, since it is the same, fundamental algorithm is said [ that it can respond to H.264/AVC FRExt only by making a design change of the about 10% of the decoder tip currently developed for H.264/AVC, and ]. In order that processing cost may hardly go up, there is no influence on performance.

H. FRExt which erased the demerit of 264/AVC
In fact, the day which demonstrates the sample of HD image compressed by H.264/AVC FRExt to the studio persons involved in Hollywood, and since I was staying in Los Angeles by chance, the writer had got the opportunity to confirm the ability by his eyes (beginning of May).

The movie "Erin Brockovich" known for there being much film grain (particle) is 1 A scene, and having been used for comparison is three kinds of the image (image for evaluation called DCI-A) by CG without grain, and a general film image (the image for evaluation and film grain which are called DCI-B are also mixed with a degree in the middle).

A codec is the reference codec of H.264/AVC besides H.264/AVC FRExt, and MPEG-2 (24Mbps(es) of a D-VHS emulation). The bit rate of an ad BANSUDO codec is four kinds such as 8/12/16/20Mbps. The image after original and compression is divided in the central point, and it evaluates by comparing by the technique of making one of the two a mirror image, and compounding him.

It is quite a KITSUI image that Erin Brockovich has quite much grain and has the scene where the printing type of books is reflected on the way etc. at a compression codec. The particle size of grain goes up by 8Mbps(es) truly, and, on the whole, it becomes NOIJI. Although it is considerably improved if it is 12Mbps(es), the difference from original is a little worrisome. However, when the bit rate was raised to 16Mbps(es), it became an image more beautiful than the D-VHS emulation of MPEG-2/24Mbps rather. The scene where the textures of a film and space frequency are high is also satisfactory at all.

If it becomes DCI-A without grain from a vine vine, a problem will not be felt at all by 8Mbps. There is also no impression to which edge faded and the difference with original will hardly be noticed also by 8Mbps(es).

Although DCI-B had the scene which paper snowstorm dances to a blue sky in the beginning, and sense of incongruity was felt a little for the whole including the bouquet of the bride who appears on the way when it was 8Mbps, it is almost satisfactory if set to 12Mbps. Although the distinction with original will become difficult if the bit rate goes up to 16Mbps(es), it is an impression better than MPEG-2/24Mbps also at 12Mbps.

MPEG-2/24Mbps is an impression only whose noise decreases H.264/AVC FRExt leaving fine textures and a detail although it is the tendency to compare originally and for noise of a screen to increase generally. 8Mbps(es) are enough if it is the animation material made from computer graphics. If it was a general movie, it was as a result of [ satisfying at 12Mbps(es) ] compression.

H.264/AVC FRExt is adopted as BD.

It seems that it, for the moment, does not consider BD camp re-compressing an image by the ad BANSUDO codec, and recording on videotape to BD-RE. The ad BANSUDO codec is not contained in the logic format specification for which BD-RE is used on it although one-layer 25 G bytes / two-layer 50 G bytes of BD-RE 1.1 was decided. Although BD-RE 1.2 of 2X writing is due to be announced also immediately next year, there is no schedule which puts in an ad BANSUDO codec at the time.

However, BD-ROM A former report Although it came out and I reported that ROM media were BD-RO, a certain ad BANSUDO codec is contained in writing it as BD-ROM here, since it is ROM by another data. To the present schedule, the logic format specification which contained the ad BANSUDO codec in the BDA general meeting in which selection of the ad BANSUDO codec adopted by BD-ROM also by the end of July is performed by the manager member, and will be performed in September, this year seems to be announced. Within the year, full specification including Java correspondence, network correspondence, etc. is determined.

In addition to H.264/AVC FRExt, VC-9 of Microsoft as well as HD DVD are likely to come up for discussion at the ad BANSUDO codec contained in the logic format specification of BD-ROM. H. Since 264/AVC FRExt and VC-9 have the technical feature alike very well, they also have a skeptical opinion about mounting both.

Since the profile for compressing in TARESU image sauce into VC-9 does not exist (at present), there is also a problem that the specification about materials other than a movie is indefinite. However, a way called adoption may also have both by political conclusion as approach against Microsoft of HD DVD slippage.

Anyway, the ad BANSUDO codec which can realize the quality of image MPEG-2 / more than 24Mbps equivalent by 8 - 12Mbps will be carried also in BD-ROM. When H.264/AVC FRExt is used temporarily, it is possible to stuff 3 hour + audio 3 language +SD bonus image 6 hours into the one-layer disk of BD-ROM for HD image of 12Mbps(es). Or television series can also perform selection called a part for 18 hour in SD quality.

With the viewpoint of the videotape recording of high-definition television broadcasting, between the present, since MPEG-2 are likely to be used, although a two-layer disk is probably needed, as for package media, almost all goods may become enough [ an one layer disk ]. This will work advantageously in respect of disk manufacture cost.

However, the appearance of BD recorder which can respond to BD-ROM reproduction is postponed rather than the schedule said at the beginning.

HD DVD is also H.264/AVC FRExt.
At the beginning, the ad BANSUDO codec was due to be contained in the logic format of BD-ROM. However, evaluation of H.264/AVC FRExt is regarded as adoption of an ad BANSUDO codec having progressed steeply, in response to the fact that it was good. In addition, there is specification change about copyright management technology etc., and it is concluded before that the scenario "the hardware corresponding to [ determine ROM specification in June - July, and ] ROM reproduction with the year-end new product" about which Mr. Nishitani of Sony was speaking was changed.

It is because when it comes to ad BANSUDO codec adoption the decoder tip must be carried, and there is change of copyright management technology etc. and it cannot be adopted as a very year-end product. It is better for the hardware in which BD-ROM reproduction is possible to consider next year or subsequent ones (but a BD-ROM software package will be put on the market next year only after an end).

On the other hand, what does HD DVD after already opting for adoption of H.264/AVC become?

Mr. Yamada of Toshiba "adopting H.264/AVC and VC-9 as the ad BANSUDO codec of HD DVD by DVD Forum determined. However, perfect specification decision which profile to use is not made. Although it had determined to adopt MPEG-2 before completion of MPEG-2 also at the time of present [ DVD ], it is the same as it. Therefore, what is necessary is just to make H.264/AVC FRExt into the profile used by HD DVD, if they say that H.264/AVC FRExt is good. It was said that it carried out slowly, applying [ of such fine specification ] it within the year."

Although Toshiba was developing the decoder tip of H.264/AVC with SandVideo, SandVideo proposed ideas, such as 8x8 transformer form which became the origin of H.264/AVC FRExt, from the first. VC-9 use the same technology -- having -- てお -- "-- H. -- the change is as bold as" which is not (Mr. Yamada) to the schedule of HD DVD just because 264/AVC FRExt came out

Anyway, it is becoming deterministic that H.264/AVC FRExt is used for HD DVD and BD-ROM. Various new motions are also occurring in parallel to this. Although only the motion under the water surface was the subject of the intense next-generation optical disc relation the past several months, from now on, it will apply in autumn, and will begin to move to the further severe earthquake. I want to see an opportunity and to clarify little by little about subjects other than an ad BANSUDO codec.


This AVC FREExt is very impressive....WMV9/VC9 up until this point was the most impressive of all codecs to be used in the upcoming High-def optical formats with H.264 running a close 2nd, IMO....

By all accounts, the two main advantages of VC-9 over H.264 have been texture reproduction and encoder/decoder complexity. With the introduction of H.264 High Profile (a.k.a.FRExt) which adds an 8 x 8 transform and adjustable quantization matrices,the playing field on the texture issue has been leveled. As for encoder/decoder complexity,it's a dual edge sword. Although VC-9 gets you going on PC's sooner, the complexity of H.264 allows for much more encoder tuning over the next ten years. It's even been said that the tuning potential of VC-9 has already peaked. Because it's so difficult to change codecs after one has become entrenched (just look to MPEG-2 as an example), having a codec that has some future proofing is a distinct advantage.....

According to the the BDA groups internal testing (if such results can be trusted) with a score of 4.00 to 4.03 (H.264 High Profile vs. the HD master)there is virtually no visual diff between the High-Def master and H.264 High Profile @ 16 mbps.....keep in mind, with 54mbps, BD-ROM has bandwidth to spare (lossless audio??)

IMO, this is great news for the Blu-ray supporters (such as myself)

Bring on PlayStation 3!!! :D
 

Ranger X

Member
Blue Ray baby. Seems like Sony isn't sleeping at the wheel after 10 years of great success ... unlike one of it's competitor that i don't need to give the name...
 

teiresias

Member
So I don't have to torture myself with technical engrish (which is worse than regular engrish IMO), can someone highlight the part of the article that actually says this is the codec chosen for BR? I didn't think they'd be announcing or choosing the final codec until September or October.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
This is not the only coded: MPEG2 is still in there for both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD/AOD as it is needed for real-time recording of HD video sources which are mostly, if not only, broadcasted in MPEG2 form IIRC.

BTW, great find Klee :).
 
Good stuff K-Lee. I'm glad that Sony and company are not sitting on their laurels but are really pushing the envelope here.

With the "better" codec in addition to the lame MPEG2 codec and also a higher capacity disk Blu Ray will be the ones to beat. Now if they can only release something that costs 1/10 of $3300 then I'll be happy. :D
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Blu-ray Disc Founders Approve Version 1.0 of BD-ROM Physical Specification; Consumer Products Expected to Begin Shipping by Late 2005(EDIT:playStation 3???)

HOLLYWOOD, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 11, 2004--The Blu-ray Disc Founders have approved Version 1.0 of the BD-ROM physical-format specification and made it available to disc manufacturers and other interested parties.


The Blu-ray Disc Founders approved the BD-ROM physical specification within the general timeframe originally outlined in the BD-ROM development roadmap. The completion of the physical specification is an important step because it provides disc manufacturers with the information they need to prepare their BD-ROM disc production lines.

"Blu-ray Disc (BD) is on schedule for companies to introduce BD-ROM players, drives and prerecorded software to consumers beginning in late 2005," said Maureen Weber, general manager of HP's Optical Storage Solutions Business. "Given the strong support from consumer electronics, PC and media manufacturers for BD, a wide variety of products is expected to eventually be available in every segment of the market."

The Blu-ray Disc Founders group includes 13 leading consumer electronics, PC and media companies, which will give the format a strong worldwide market presence.

Danielle Levitas, director of IDC's Consumer Markets research, added that, "with the rapid growth in high-definition TV, blue-laser technology will be an important step forward in the consumer entertainment experience. The announcement from the Blu-ray Disc Founders indicates they are well on their way toward delivering their format."

Interested parties can obtain the format specification by contacting the Blu-ray Disc License Agent (agent@blu-raydisc.info / fax: +81 3 5769 5727) and executing the required license agreement. Companies interested in developing, manufacturing and selling BD-ROM products must sign a license agreement to comply with the format specifications.

About the Blu-ray Disc Founders: The Blu-ray Disc Founders was formed in May 2002 to pursue broad acceptance of the Blu-ray Disc formats. Members are Dell Inc.; Hewlett Packard Company; Hitachi, Ltd.; LG Electronics Inc.; Mitsubishi Electric Corporation; Panasonic (Matsushita Electric); Pioneer Corporation; Royal Philips Electronics; Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.; Sharp Corporation; Sony Corporation; TDK Corporation; and Thomson. The Web site for the Blu-ray Disc Association is www.blu-raydisc-official.org. In May, the Blu-ray Disc Founders voted to create the Blu-ray Disc Association to give more companies an opportunity to participate in the development and promotion of the Blu-ray Disc format. More than 240 companies attended recent information seminars in Japan and the United States to hear about how they can play a role in the format creation, technology contribution and working level of BDA's operation. Additional information about the Blu-ray Disc Association is available at www.blu-raydisc-official.org.

Blu-ray Disc Founders

-- Dell Inc.

-- Hewlett Packard

-- Hitachi, Ltd.

-- LG Electronics Inc.

-- Mitsubishi Electric Corporation

-- Panasonic (Matsushita Electric)

-- Pioneer Corporation

-- Royal Philips Electronics

-- Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd

-- Sharp Corporation

-- Sony Corporation

-- TDK Corporation

-- Thomson
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
So I don't have to torture myself with technical engrish (which is worse than regular engrish IMO), can someone highlight the part of the article that actually says this is the codec chosen for BR? I didn't think they'd be announcing or choosing the final codec until September or October.

blu_09.jpg


BTW, here is a comparison of HD-DVD vs. BRD using advance codecs:

@16.5 mbps

HD-DVD: ~2 hours, 1 minute single layer, ~4 hours, 2 minutes dual layer
Blu-Ray: ~3 hours, 22 minutes single layer, ~6 hours, 44 minutes dual layer


@ 36 mbps

HD-DVD: ~56 minutes single layer, ~1 hour, 51 minutes dual layer
Blu-Ray: ~1 hour, 33 minutes single layer, ~3 hours, 5 minutes dual layer
 
Well I guess we still have to record with MPEG2 because it takes massive computational power to encode/record with the new codecs???

The only source of WM9/MPEG4 may be from VOOM in the near future. No one else I know of is making this kind of move (and it's a wise one to conserve bandwidth).
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
what sort of capacity are you looking at with a 16mbps video signal? I'll be generous and allow you 3mbps for audio (thats double DTS full bandwidth, so should be plenty - you aren't getting lossless!)


So 18mbps/blu ray capacity = how many hours?
 

cybamerc

Will start substantiating his hate
Panajev2001a said:
This is not the only coded: MPEG2 is still in there for both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD/AOD as it is needed for real-time recording of HD video sources which are mostly, if not only, broadcasted in MPEG2 form IIRC.
Is it possible to just dump the stream on the harddisk though. I would think not. In that case you might as well just go with MPEG4. There are realtime hardware encoders available today.
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
The leaked XENON Documents show that XBOX2 will stick to 9GB red laser DVDs...

You expect Nintendo to embrace a multimedia format like Blu-ray??
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Well, well, well...what have we here:

blu_08.jpg


With support for AVC HP confirmed by my first slide, it looks like the BRD group is also looking into advance audio codes too!!!

We can see that legacy support for LPCM, Dolby Digital and DTS is supported!!! bAKwARdz kOMPaTibILitities ROOZ :D

From what I am hearing, they are looking at using lossles audio codecs(!!!!) with BRD...eargasm central, if true!!!

All will be revealed in sept....

This also confirms the option of several different HD framerates and I think I see some PAL ones in there too! :D
 

jarrod

Banned
Kleegamefan said:
The leaked XENON Documents show that XBOX2 will stick to 9GB red laser DVDs...

You expect Nintendo to embrace a multimedia format like Blu-ray??
There's speculation that MS might still come up with a custom format (fueled by their employement search). HD-DVD would've been nice but it's just not viable for a 2005 console release... I personally think they'll stick with DVD for cost savings.

I expect Nintendo to work with Matsushitsa again, this time likely on a full size disc GOD successor... with GOD backwards compatability of course. :)
 

teiresias

Member
With support for AVC HP confirmed by my first slide, it looks like the BRD group is also looking into advance audio codes too!!!

Yeah, but the slide you just posted only says something about MPEG2 as definite, the advanced video codec still says, "Being investigated" so I'm not sure this is really a confirmation on the final ROM codec yet.
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
HD-DVD is already going to have a lossless audio codec.

IIRC, there has been no official decision (yet) for lossless audio for either HD-DVD or BRD yet...

It probably doens't matter, though, as I am sure both groups will use lossless audio codecs at the end of the day.....

Alas, nothing is official yet :(
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Yeah, but the slide you just posted only says something about MPEG2 as definite, the advanced video codec still says, "Being investigated" so I'm not sure this is really a confirmation on the final ROM codec yet.

Here are a few comments I found from Richard E. Doherty, Managing Director for Blu-ray at the Panasonic Hollywood Labs:

Blu-ray details
If you don't mind, I would like to clarify some information about the Blu-ray disc technology, and possibly dispel some myths:

1. Regarding capacity: Blu-ray disc clearly provides more storage than HD-DVD. I think this is well known, but I'd like to be sure the data is clear. HD-DVD in ROM form provides 15GB for single layer, 30GB for dual layer. Blu-ray disc provides 25GB for single layer, 50GB for dual layer.

2. Regarding video codecs: Blu-ray WILL include at least one advanced video codec beyond MPEG-2. Current candidates include MPEG-4 AVC High profile and VC-9. Rest assured that Blu-ray will simply be able to hold more HD video than any other optical disc format.

Keep in mind, all video codecs introduce artifacts to the picture, and those artifacts typically increase as the bit-rate decreases. With Blu-ray's superior capacity, a content provider has the ability to increase video bitrate to assure whatever quality level they desire, all the way up to the format maximum of 36Mb/s. We do quite a bit of codec evaluation at our lab. We do blind subjective codec testing. I can't tell you all that we learned, but I can tell you that 8Mb/s looks pretty good, and that there are measurable, subjective improvements by moving to 12Mb/s and 15Mb/s for certain advanced codecs.

3. Regarding player cost: Both HD-DVD and Blu-ray require a 405nm blue laser to play back and record on the new media. This, of course, is the expensive bit. The rest of the play back head is insignificant in the cost: several manufacturers (at least 4) have demonstrated triple-heads that playback and record Blu-ray, DVD, and CD. Knowing what I know about Blu-ray, I cannot see how there will be any significant differences in manufacturing cost between a HD-DVD and a Blu-ray player.

However, please do consider that Blu-ray recorders have been on the market for almost a year in Japan, and have already begun their march down the typical price point curve.

4. Backward compatibility: All existing Blu-ray recorders play back DVDs. BTW, the Panasonic recorder also records to DVD-RAM and DVD-R. The idea that any Blu-ray device would not playback DVDs would be product suicide. The concept that there is some technical detail that makes it difficult or more expensive for Blu-ray recorders to play back DVDs is nonsense.

Also, in response to some discussions about capacity, the are R&D labs that have demonstrated 4-layer Blu-ray discs. This is not currently part of the format specification, but can give a suggestion that Blu-ray has a lot of room for growth even beyond the existing large capacity.

I hope this didn't come off sounding like a product sales pitch or anything, but I wanted to clear up some misconceptions that come up frequently in this and other forums.


__________________
Richard E. Doherty
Managing Director for Blu-ray at the Panasonic Hollywood Labs

The codec used to be called MPEG-4 AVC FRExt, and now has an official profile (High). I can post a link once I have enough posts to be allowed to do so.

Also, I'll sort of (not) answer the question about audio codecs:
Of course the Blu-ray disc founders are looking into advanced audio codecs, including lossless codecs. No decision has been made. I hope we will ultimately satisfy the audience here by providing a significant improvement over the audio formats supported by the current DVD spec.

Although, officially, they are "evualuating advanced audio and video codecs" here is what *I* understand the current situation:

Blu-ray will use MPEG2 and the new MPEG-4 AVC FRExt codecs

Along with legacy LPCM, DD and DTS codec, a lossless audio will be an option

All this will be official in september, but it is happening...
 
Wyzdom said:
Blue Ray baby. Seems like Sony isn't sleeping at the wheel after 10 years of great success ... unlike one of it's competitor that i don't need to give the name...

Actually I think it's the other way around. After 10 years of luck and undeserved devotion, PS3 may actually deserve praise this time around (Although if there's anything to Karma, they'll then lose their market leadership position.)
 
Kleegamefan said:
The leaked XENON Documents show that XBOX2 will stick to 9GB red laser DVDs...

You expect Nintendo to embrace a multimedia format like Blu-ray??


Yes i expect since Matsushita is also on board of Blu-Ray technology.....Nintendo can easily ask Matsushita to do a similar proprietary like the GC based on Blu-ray....
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Nintendo *could* do that, but Nintendo tends not to support any format that they can't control the production of and the licensing fees....not to mention they have never supported *any* multimedia formats like CDs or DVDs...

For them to all of a sudden support BRDs would mean they would have to also pay license fees for DVDs and CDs since all BRD deck must support those formats accroding to Mr. Doherty from Panasonic USA....

Again, don't hold your breath.....
 

GIR

Banned
Nintendo is in an interesting position, they could choose BRD and make MS look stupid or they could choose whatever HD-DVD option MS uses and make Sony look stupid, unfortunately Nintendo are too stupid to realise this and probably end up using a stupid proprietary disc format.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
It doesn't really matter what the *optional* codecs are, as they will only be present on a tiny minority of discs, feeding niche markets

What matters is what the defacto codecs are for mainstream movie mastering. If that is still MPEG2 because of authoring limitations or whatever, then MPEG4 inclusion might be irrelevant.

Never underestimate the ability of large companies to come very close to common sense decisions, before fucking it all up big style.

At this moment, we can only hope.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
If they include MPEG4 as codec, it is up to the Movie Companies to decide how they want to compress their movies, not Blu-Ray players manufacturers whose device can read and decode movies that use either MPEG2 or MPEG4.
 

MaddenNFL64

Member
Are Blu-Ray & HD-DVD needed at all for next gen? What games will actually surpass 9 gigs in space? I mean game, not CG movie masked as a game. 2 discs aren't a bad alternative IMO. I'm all for BR though. High definition video with lossless audio sounds like a great experience :). I just don't think it has to be adopted into videogame consoles at this point.

Also, this thread seems to have little to do with the PS3. Seems more OT to me :p.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
MaddenNFL64 said:
Are Blu-Ray & HD-DVD needed at all for next gen? What games will actually surpass 9 gigs in space? I mean game, not CG movie masked as a game. 2 discs aren't a bad alternative IMO. I'm all for BR though. High definition video with lossless audio sounds like a great experience :). I just don't think it has to be adopted into videogame consoles at this point.

Also, this thread seems to have little to do with the PS3. Seems more OT to me :p.

Well, if are one of the companies who designed Blu-Ray, wouldn't you want to make sure it does succeed ?

Do you think that PlayStation 3 will sell much less than 45-50 million consoles over ~4 years ?

Don't you think that having more than 40 Million Blu-Ray players in the hands of customers by 2010 would influence the Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD battle ?
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Panajev said:
Do you think that PlayStation 3 will sell much less than 45-50 million consoles over ~4 years ?
Why not, it will be late to the market, underpowered, and XBox1 isn't even gonna break 25M in 4 years :p
 

jarrod

Banned
Kleegamefan said:
Nintendo *could* do that, but Nintendo tends not to support any format that they can't control the production of and the licensing fees....not to mention they have never supported *any* multimedia formats like CDs or DVDs...

For them to all of a sudden support BRDs would mean they would have to also pay license fees for DVDs and CDs since all BRD deck must support those formats accroding to Mr. Doherty from Panasonic USA....

Again, don't hold your breath.....
He's not suggesting Nintendo use BD but rather have Matsushita develop a BD based custom format (similar to GOD being DVD based). Given Matsushita's intimate knowledge of the technology and past partnership with Nintendo, I wouldn't be at all surprised... we could even get a GameCube/Revolution compatible DVD/BD based Q Game/Movie MultiPlayer out of it...
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Panajev said:
Because it will not be underpowered :p.
Well that didn't help XBox either :p

Ok ok I will stop now, it's all in good fun. Anyway, I guess I can't continue doubting the BR in PS3 thing, but I am still not convinced about economics of it, or rather, I worry that we could get a 1x speed drive or something to that end, which would be a bit... slow.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
If they include MPEG4 as codec, it is up to the Movie Companies to decide how they want to compress their movies, not Blu-Ray players manufacturers whose device can read and decode movies that use either MPEG2 or MPEG4

clearly, and that was where my post was aimed. But the movie studios are likely to fall behind one codec for their products. Possibly fragmented across studios (eg Warner use MPEG2, Sony use MPEG4), but each studio will likely stick to one solution.

And if authoring tools aren't available for MPEG4 quickly, you will probably end up with at least the first raft of titles being good old MPEG2.
 
Top Bottom