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Bonus Round - Is Time Running Out For Xbox?

Yikes!!! I was just scanning the Amazon best selling list, and the XB1 really is just a Titanfall console right now. The first non-Titanfall game doesn't appear until MGS V at #71, with Call of Duty Ghosts at #90 as the only other non-Titanfall game on the list. Even though Titanfall is doing well, that's putting all your eggs in one basket. I'm not sure if this makes it easier for the XB1 to get an exclusive since Titanfall is doing so well, or will it make it harder because the general sales are on the PS4 side. Either way it will definitely make it more expensive to buy XB1 exclusive content.

Code: 
Amazon Best Selling in Video Games  
  (XB1 vs PS4 - Current Sales)
===================================
 1: ## Playstation 4 Console ## 
 2: XB1 - Titanfall
 7: ## Titanfall Xbox One Console ## 
 9: PS4 - MGS V
10: PS4 - Infamous Second Son
27: PS4 - Call of Duty Ghosts
28: PS4 - Killzone
37: PS4 - Need for Speed
39: PS4 - Assassin's Creed Black Flag
44: PS4 - Batman: Arkhan Knight
49: PS4 - FIFA
50: PS4 - NBA 2K14
51: PS4 - Watch Dogs
59: PS4 - Battlefield 4
61: XB1 - Titanfall CE
71: XB1 - MGS V
75: ##  Xbox One Console ## 
90: XB1 - Call of Duty Ghosts
97: PS4 - Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition
98: PS4 - Madden 25
99: PS4 - Thief

Edit:
Thought it would be fun to see the year to date sales comparison. That should give a better overall picture since it should use more data points. The thing to note here is that Call of Duty Ghosts at #60 is the only non-Titanfall XB1 game on the list. Btw Call of Duty Ghosts for the PS4 comes in at #36

Code: 
Amazon Best Selling in Video Games  
  (XB1 vs PS4 - Year to Date Sales)
=================================== 
 2: ## Playstation 4 Console ##
 6: XB1 - Titanfall
19: ## Xbox One Console##
21: PS4 - MGS V
32: PS4 - Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition
36: PS4 - Call of Duty Ghosts
39: PS4 - FIFA
40: PS4 - Infamous Second Son
46: PS4 - Killzone
47: PS4 - Battlefield 4
49: PS4 - Assassin's Creed Black Flag
56: PS4 - Need for Speed
58: PS4 - Thief
60: XB1 - Call of Duty Ghosts
78: PS4 - NBA 2K14
89: ## Titanfall Xbox One Console ##
95: PS4 - Madden 25
 
Syphon Filter said:
whats healthy to you?
Click to expand...

Well lets compare it to this gen, because it doesn't take business guru to know that both MS and Sony want more sales for their new consoles then their last ones.

PS360 did a combined ~160 million, roughly ~80 million each.

For simplicity sake let's say the PS4bone do the same total numbers. ~160 million. I could see it being skewed 90/70 in Sony's favor.

While ~70 million wouldn't be the best for MS, it surely won't be deemed a "failure". MS could still potentially make a great deal of money from sales figures like that especially if attach rates stay high. If consumers bend to the will of Micro-transactions and other various DLC, the potential profit per system could be even higher then it was last gen. These companies are looking to make even more money off these boxes then ever before. And they will try. There will be new schemes. The rise of episodic content and eventually "games as a service" from which they could gather continued income. MS utilizing the cloud and Sony doing essentially the same under Gaikai. They will come up with new ways of charging for content and if this past gen is any example, many will eat it up.
 
EventHorizon said:
Yikes!!! I was just scanning the Amazon best selling list, and the XB1 really is just a Titanfall console right now. The first non-Titanfall game doesn't appear until MGS V at #71, with Call of Duty Ghosts at #90 as the only other non-Titanfall game on the list. Even though Titanfall is doing well, that's putting all your eggs in one basket. I'm not sure if this makes it easier for the XB1 to get an exclusive since Titanfall is doing so well, or will it make it harder because the general sales are on the PS4 side. Either way it will definitely make it more expensive to buy XB1 exclusive content.
Click to expand...

What I find most interesting is that the PS4 while likely 70% ahead in HW sales WW, is only roughly 16% ahead in the US and still seems to be enjoying quite a bit more interest in software
 
One thing that was touched upon, but not quite followed up with during the Kinect segment was the customer interested in streaming via Twitch. For the full experience, the Titanfall or Forza bundles pretty much even out the playing field price-wise. The XB1+game+1 year gold(right now on sale for $39.99) is $540 + tax. The PS4 + game + camera is $520 + tax. I didn't include a PS+ subscription because I don't think you need it to stream.
I know that it is a relatively small % of people who consider streaming a priority, but for those that do, either system is a good solution.
XB1 has a better Twitch app, but it's roughly $20 bucks more.
 
daman824 said:
So they dropped the camera almost a year before release but didn't removie the giant light on the controllers which absolutely destroys battery life, can't be turned off, and has a main function of interacting directly with the camera (something else that can't be turned off without being unplugged)?

And that is the last post I can make tonight. Gotta get to bed. Early classes tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Why would they remove the light? They still want you to buy the camera just like MS wanted you to buy a Kinect last gen.

They should add a way to disable it though.
 
I don't get the logic behind wanting Microsoft to leave the console space. It's a huge company with vast resources, it is good for console gaming to have companies of that size invested in the industry. Sure, Microsoft needed a bloody nose but I really hope it doesn't quit trying. That would be a disaster.
 
EventHorizon said:
Yikes!!! I was just scanning the Amazon best selling list, and the XB1 really is just a Titanfall console right now. The first non-Titanfall game doesn't appear until MGS V at #71, with Call of Duty Ghosts at #90 as the only other non-Titanfall game on the list. Even though Titanfall is doing well, that's putting all your eggs in one basket. I'm not sure if this makes it easier for the XB1 to get an exclusive since Titanfall is doing so well, or will it make it harder because the general sales are on the PS4 side. Either way it will definitely make it more expensive to buy XB1 exclusive content.

Code: 
Amazon Best Selling in Video Games  
           (XB1 vs PS4)
===================================
 1: ## Playstation 4 Console ## 
 2: XB1 - Titanfall
 7: ## Titanfall Xbox One Console ## 
 9: PS4 - MGS V
10: PS4 - Infamous Second Son
27: PS4 - Call of Duty Ghosts
28: PS4 - Killzone
37: PS4 - Need for Speed
39: PS4 - Assassin's Creed Black Flag
44: PS4 - Batman: Arkhan Knight
49: PS4 - FIFA
50: PS4 - NBA 2K14
51: PS4 - Watch Dogs
59: PS4 - Battlefield 4
61: XB1 - Titanfall CE
71: XB1 - MGS V
75: ##  Xbox One Console ## 
90: XB1 - Call of Duty Ghosts
97: PS4 - Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition
98: PS4 - Madden 25
99: PS4 - Thief
Click to expand...

This list, more than anything else, should be lighting a fire under Microsoft's ass.
 
EventHorizon said:
Yikes!!! I was just scanning the Amazon best selling list, and the XB1 really is just a Titanfall console right now. The first non-Titanfall game doesn't appear until MGS V at #71, with Call of Duty Ghosts at #90 as the only other non-Titanfall game on the list. Even though Titanfall is doing well, that's putting all your eggs in one basket. I'm not sure if this makes it easier for the XB1 to get an exclusive since Titanfall is doing so well, or will it make it harder because the general sales are on the PS4 side. Either way it will definitely make it more expensive to buy XB1 exclusive content.

Code: 
Amazon Best Selling in Video Games  
           (XB1 vs PS4)
===================================
 1: ## Playstation 4 Console ## 
 2: XB1 - Titanfall
 7: ## Titanfall Xbox One Console ## 
 9: PS4 - MGS V
10: PS4 - Infamous Second Son
27: PS4 - Call of Duty Ghosts
28: PS4 - Killzone
37: PS4 - Need for Speed
39: PS4 - Assassin's Creed Black Flag
44: PS4 - Batman: Arkhan Knight
49: PS4 - FIFA
50: PS4 - NBA 2K14
51: PS4 - Watch Dogs
59: PS4 - Battlefield 4
61: XB1 - Titanfall CE
71: XB1 - MGS V
75: ##  Xbox One Console ## 
90: XB1 - Call of Duty Ghosts
97: PS4 - Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition
98: PS4 - Madden 25
99: PS4 - Thief
Click to expand...

Wow, looks like all those new PS4 owners are picking up games with their purchases
 
I don't believe Microsoft can simply drop Kinect. They invested heavily into it as a product that the consumer needs. They won't abandon it from a few months of sales. Now if this trend continues for the year, then they may make changes. I don't believe the current sales figures spell "doom and gloom" as much as they are simply below projections for MS.
 
Synth said:
I swear to god, I'm sick of this line. Would you mind explaining the logistics of reintroducing the 24hr check in, on a few million consoles, and tens of millions of units of software, that are currently floating around without restrictions?

Once they started selling software without the DRM, it was done with. It would be impossible to reintroduce without causing the most severe market confusion any electronics product has ever seen.
Click to expand...

huh? they could just require it for future titles. if they reintroduced it next year, that'll be 6 years' worth of future content vs 2 years' worth of past titles with no drm.

they invested in it, heavily. so much so that it was at the forefront of their console when it was revealed. that big an investment isn't going to be "gone" just like that. we will get drm once we move to the digital future, so they'll need that.
 
EventHorizon said:
Yikes!!! I was just scanning the Amazon best selling list, and the XB1 really is just a Titanfall console right now. The first non-Titanfall game doesn't appear until MGS V at #71, with Call of Duty Ghosts at #90 as the only other non-Titanfall game on the list. Even though Titanfall is doing well, that's putting all your eggs in one basket. I'm not sure if this makes it easier for the XB1 to get an exclusive since Titanfall is doing so well, or will it make it harder because the general sales are on the PS4 side. Either way it will definitely make it more expensive to buy XB1 exclusive content.

Code: 
Amazon Best Selling in Video Games  
      (XB1 vs PS4 - Current Sales)
===================================
 1: ## Playstation 4 Console ## 
 2: XB1 - Titanfall
 7: ## Titanfall Xbox One Console ## 
 9: PS4 - MGS V
10: PS4 - Infamous Second Son
27: PS4 - Call of Duty Ghosts
28: PS4 - Killzone
37: PS4 - Need for Speed
39: PS4 - Assassin's Creed Black Flag
44: PS4 - Batman: Arkhan Knight
49: PS4 - FIFA
50: PS4 - NBA 2K14
51: PS4 - Watch Dogs
59: PS4 - Battlefield 4
61: XB1 - Titanfall CE
71: XB1 - MGS V
75: ##  Xbox One Console ## 
90: XB1 - Call of Duty Ghosts
97: PS4 - Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition
98: PS4 - Madden 25
99: PS4 - Thief

Edit:
Thought it would be fun to see the year to date sales comparison. That should give a better overall picture since it should use more data points. The thing to note here is that Call of Duty Ghosts at #60 is the only non-Titanfall XB1 game on the list. Btw Call of Duty Ghosts for the PS4 comes in at #36

Code: 
Amazon Best Selling in Video Games  
      (XB1 vs PS4 - Year to Date Sales)
===================================
2: PS4 - ## Playstation 4 Console ##
6: XB1 - Titanfall
19: XB1 - ## Xbox One Console##
21: PS4 - MGS V
32: PS4 - Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition
36: PS4 - Call of Duty Ghosts
39: PS4 - FIFA
40: PS4 - Infamous Second Son
46: PS4 - Killzone
47: PS4 - Battlefield 4
49: PS4 - Assassin's Creed Black Flag
56: PS4 - Need for Speed
58: PS4 - Thief
60: XB1 - Call of Duty Ghosts
78: PS4 - NBA 2K14
89: XB1 - ## Titanfall Xbox One Console ##
95: PS4 - Madden 25
Click to expand...



Earlier in this thread, mortimer has said that Arkham Knight is tracking 4:1 on the PS4 relative to the Xbox One.

This kind of thing simply skyrockets the price of any exclusivity.


Another thing -- a Titanfall copy with a fucking giant $200 robot is tracking above all other software. That is simply incredible.
 
hawk2025 said:
Earlier in this thread, mortimer has said that Arkham Knight is tracking 4:1 on the PS4 relative to the Xbox One.

This kind of thing simply skyrockets the price of any exclusivity.


Another thing -- a Titanfall copy with a fucking giant $200 robot is tracking above all other software. That is simply incredible.
Click to expand...

Do we know how many of those they made? That should give us an idea of what the actual number of software units sold are...
 
MutonCommander said:
Indeed. It's incredible how noone seems to learn from his competitors' mistakes. Sony paid for its arrogance last gen and here's Microsoft doing the exact same thing.
Click to expand...

What's even more funny with this, is that Microsoft has only scored big in the U.S. & the UK with Xbox 360 after only selling 24+ million Original Xbox consoles worldwide. They didn't even have complete dominance like Nintendo had with the NES, SNES, & the Wii, or like Sony had with the PS1 & the PS2.

Both Nintendo & Sony clearly had a reason to be arrogant after winning two console generations in a row apiece, MS doesn't.
 
hawk2025 said:
Earlier in this thread, mortimer has said that Arkham Knight is tracking 4:1 on the PS4 relative to the Xbox One.

This kind of thing simply skyrockets the price of any exclusivity.
Click to expand...

So basically Titanfall is by far the best thing happening on the Xbox One, and given the numbers it is unlikely that Microsoft will be able to keep it exclusive to its platforms. If Titanfall were to be released on the PS4 as well at the XB1 it would most likely turn from being a bragging point for Microsoft to a bragging point for Sony. That would seriously hurt.

I don't know...I am starting to think that MS has to continue to pay for Titanfall exclusivity no matter what it costs.
 
EmptySpace said:
huh? they could just require it for future titles. if they reintroduced it next year, that'll be 6 years' worth of future content vs 2 years' worth of past titles with no drm.

they invested in it, heavily. so much so that it was at the forefront of their console when it was revealed. that big an investment isn't going to be "gone" just like that. we will get drm once we move to the digital future, so they'll need that.
Click to expand...

Do you seriously think that would work? Doing the 180, patching all the requirements out of the system, disabling the physical/digital link, running all the 're-education' marketing on how you can sell your used games.. and then suddenly it'll be like "Well you can sell those ones, released before this date, but none of the others"? You actually think they can do that? The machine would be stripped from store shelves that week.

Sure, I don't believe it's gone forever. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to reheat it and package it in a more appealing way for the next gen, but if you actually think that they're going to segment the Xbox One market into software that can and can't be used offline, then you're crazy.
 
EventHorizon said:
So basically Titanfall is by far the best thing happening on the Xbox One, and given the numbers it is unlikely that Microsoft will be able to keep it exclusive to its platforms. If Titanfall were to be released on the PS4 as well at the XB1 it would most likely turn from being a bragging point for Microsoft to a bragging point for Sony. That would seriously hurt.

I don't know...I am starting to think that MS has to continue to pay for Titanfall exclusivity no matter what it costs.
Click to expand...
MS will want to continue exclusivity, but it doesn't matter what they want if Respawn says no. They hold the keys for TF2. After what I expect will be a big win for PS4 in Destiny I doubt Respawn will want to keep the sequel away from the PS4 user base.

I'm sure they'll placate MS by giving them first access to dlc.
 
Synth said:
Do you seriously think that would work? Doing the 180, patching all the requirements out of the system, disabling the physical/digital link, running all the 're-education' marketing on how you can sell your used games.. and then suddenly it'll be like "Well you can sell those ones, released before this date, but none of the others"? You actually think they can do that? The machine would be stripped from store shelves that week.

Sure, I don't believe it's gone forever. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to reheat it and package it in a more appealing way for the next gen, but if you actually think that they're going to segment the Xbox One market into software that can and can't be used offline, then you're crazy.
Click to expand...

MS will just come out with a discless SKU at some point if they want to go DRM path. No way they grandfather it into already sold consoles. That would be brand suicide

Edit: I mean they would offer a separate discless SKU on top of the standard SKU going forward
 
Biker19 said:
Microsoft just only "dropped DRM" because of low pre-order sales & because of all the backlash that they were getting from everybody about it (even though it's not truly gone from the system & that Microsoft can easily re-implement it in a blink of an eye).

There was absolutely no proof that Sony even included mandatory DRM inside PS4 in the first place.
Click to expand...

Correct. There was no real hard evidence. But if you're willing to believe certain insiders like famousmortimer, then Sony did have a system in place, they were just debating whether to use it or not. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to believe that Sony were planning something similar (maybe not as restrictive), but, after seeing the huge negative reaction that MS received made the smart decision to drop it.
 
MercuryLS said:
Yeah drm isn't coming back this gen for Xbox one. They might try again with the next one.
Click to expand...

Unless they can pull of some PR market campaign to convince people they will be as consumer friendly as valve no one in the right mind is going try it again.
 
EventHorizon said:
Yikes!!! I was just scanning the Amazon best selling list, and the XB1 really is just a Titanfall console right now. The first non-Titanfall game doesn't appear until MGS V at #71, with Call of Duty Ghosts at #90 as the only other non-Titanfall game on the list. Even though Titanfall is doing well, that's putting all your eggs in one basket. I'm not sure if this makes it easier for the XB1 to get an exclusive since Titanfall is doing so well, or will it make it harder because the general sales are on the PS4 side. Either way it will definitely make it more expensive to buy XB1 exclusive content.

Code: 
Amazon Best Selling in Video Games  
  (XB1 vs PS4 - Current Sales)
===================================
 1: ## Playstation 4 Console ## 
 2: XB1 - Titanfall
 7: ## Titanfall Xbox One Console ## 
 9: PS4 - MGS V
10: PS4 - Infamous Second Son
27: PS4 - Call of Duty Ghosts
28: PS4 - Killzone
37: PS4 - Need for Speed
39: PS4 - Assassin's Creed Black Flag
44: PS4 - Batman: Arkhan Knight
49: PS4 - FIFA
50: PS4 - NBA 2K14
51: PS4 - Watch Dogs
59: PS4 - Battlefield 4
61: XB1 - Titanfall CE
71: XB1 - MGS V
75: ##  Xbox One Console ## 
90: XB1 - Call of Duty Ghosts
97: PS4 - Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition
98: PS4 - Madden 25
99: PS4 - Thief

Edit:
Thought it would be fun to see the year to date sales comparison. That should give a better overall picture since it should use more data points. The thing to note here is that Call of Duty Ghosts at #60 is the only non-Titanfall XB1 game on the list. Btw Call of Duty Ghosts for the PS4 comes in at #36

Code: 
Amazon Best Selling in Video Games  
  (XB1 vs PS4 - Year to Date Sales)
=================================== 
 2: ## Playstation 4 Console ##
 6: XB1 - Titanfall
19: ## Xbox One Console##
21: PS4 - MGS V
32: PS4 - Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition
36: PS4 - Call of Duty Ghosts
39: PS4 - FIFA
40: PS4 - Infamous Second Son
46: PS4 - Killzone
47: PS4 - Battlefield 4
49: PS4 - Assassin's Creed Black Flag
56: PS4 - Need for Speed
58: PS4 - Thief
60: XB1 - Call of Duty Ghosts
78: PS4 - NBA 2K14
89: ## Titanfall Xbox One Console ##
95: PS4 - Madden 25
Click to expand...


I wonder how much of this is because of PS4s still being pretty hard to find in stores where as Xbox Ones are easy to find/get.
 
Bgamer90 said:
I wonder how much of this is because of PS4s still being hard to find in stores where as Xbox Ones are easy to find/get.
Click to expand...

Amazon is likely contributing to a far higher percentage of total PS4 sales in the US relative to the percentage of total XB1 sales in the US via Amazon

I.E. XB1 is available in stores easily and thus a lower percentage of XB1's sales are online most likely thus software sales in Amazon would be favoring PS4 heavily

But the magnitude of it is still probably telling something interesting
 
SwiftDeath said:
MS will just come out with a discless SKU at some point if they want to go DRM path. No way they grandfather it into already sold consoles. That would be brand suicide

Edit: I mean they would offer a separate discless SKU on top of the standard SKU going forward
Click to expand...

Yea, but discless doesn't require it, since you can't transfer the software to anyone anyway. All the digital purchase across all three consoles essentially come with automatic DRM as of today anyway. If anything, the pre-180 DRM solution would be more lenient for a discless console.
 
SwiftDeath said:
Amazon is likely contributing to a far higher percentage of total PS4 sales in the US relative to the percentage of total XB1 sales in the US via Amazon

I.E. XB1 is available in stores easily and thus a lower percentage of XB1's sales are online most likely thus software sales in Amazon would be favoring PS4 heavily

But the magnitude of it is still probably telling something interesting
Click to expand...

Yeah, exactly me thoughts. Would be interesting to get more details on store availability in relation to Amazon/online sales for these consoles.
 
Gaming needs Xbox One to do good for Sony to not get cocky again next gen
Click to expand...

Actually no, Xbox fans need the XB1 to do good so they don't feel like they wasted $500. How MS does has ZERO effect on what Sony will do next generation.
 
bigboss370 said:
is Titanfall 2 going to be Sony's FFXIII at E3 2015?
Click to expand...
The age of "megatons" is more or less over, especially when you consider that FF13 (the game you referenced) still sold more than twice as much on PS3.

People are worn-out from PR hype and megatons. They just want great gaming systems. They just want to turn the darn box on after a long day's worth of work and find a worthwhile experience. I think that's why Sony's philosophy of quantity and diversity is working so well for them. The PS4 is basically selling on that idea alone with not a lot (yet) to show for it, as opposed to Microsoft's philosophy of 3 HUGE HYPED, HIGHLY ADVERTISED GAMES PER YEAR GET YER NEW DEW FLAVOR, which has lost its luster.
 
Synth said:
Yea, but discless doesn't require it, since you can't transfer the software to anyone anyway. All the digital purchase across all three consoles essentially come with automatic DRM as of today anyway. If anything, the pre-180 DRM solution would be more lenient for a discless console.
Click to expand...

Right so MS gets a more compelling DRM solution for itself and publishers. Although no idea why retailers would sell it
 
famousmortimer said:
If Titanfall doesn't push the needle... I don't know what will. I don't mean to be doom and gloom, and will freely admit that there could be something that comes out that changes everything that we don't know about (I don't think anyone foresaw Monster Hunter saving the PSP, for instance). But, looking at the trajectories of both systems and the release schedules for both systems... Titanfall is the biggest exclusive this year for either platform. If it doesn't push the needle and keep the needle pushed for a sustained amount of time I think there's a real danger of Microsoft falling far behind (which... I don't think they are far behind yet, for the record).


Microsoft doesn't need to "win" to make money. Microsoft wants to sell services. They will make money with XBLG. They will make money with Skype. They will make money with NUADs. They will make money with the NFL deal. They will make money with TV stuff. They will make money with Forza/Halo/Gears/etc. They don't need to be in first to do that.


But... and this is where if I was microsoft I would start shitting myself a little bit. They aren't the "cool" console currently. The PS4 is sleeker. The PS4 is more powerful (and early adopters are making it known via social media to the more casual gamers that this is the case... something that didn't exist 10 years ago). PS+ is beloved. And the PS4 is $100 cheaper. The xbox one is a big, bulky box. The Kinect hasn't caught on (I like it far more than I thought I would... but let's be serious, the gaming public's general sentiment about it is "i don't want it."). XBLG is looking like a rip off at $10 more for less stuff than PS+.

Microsoft has a very real image problem right now. And if Titanfall doesn't help correct that there isn't any reason to think anything will this year. Forza Horizon 2 will be awesome and I can't wait to buy that game but racing games are fairly niche. A big niche... 2 million sold, sure... but it's not going to move units. Halo 2 anniversary will be the biggest HD remake ever but as of yet there is no proof that a HD remake does much more than make a company some easy money.

The biggest problem is that when you add all of this stuff up, it's hard to think that MS will stay at the same trajectory. Like I said before, they don't need to win, but they do need to keep selling so they are a somewhat close second place. But when Watch_Dogs comes out and it's different resolutions that's another chink in the armor. I was told last night by a guy at MS that Batman is being preordered, in the US, to the tune of 4 to 1 in favor of the PS4 currently. If the xbox keeps getting the shit kicked out of it I think less people want to buy it as we go forward. It becomes so much more expensive for them to buy exclusives. The system is thought of as uncool (see: wii u).

Marketing guys project that Titanfall has already helped sell around 1 million Xbox Ones. This is based off of things like upticks in sales after every major titanfall announcements. They don't know if it will move 200k more at this point. The titanfall bundle is selling less than Microsoft projected (but they are still hopeful for a big swing come tuesday). If titanfall doesn't turn around the sales... and the image problem - what will? Direct X 12 unlocking the magic secret gpu when it releases in 1.5 years? Even if that bullshit is real the system would be buried by then.


As for "get rid of the kinect" i agree with Pachter that it won't be this year. Well, it can possibly be this year, but later this year. I think his reasoning is the same as mine... because the people I talk to say "We literally cannot unbundle it, we have contracts with parts suppliers that are yearly or multi-year." Mattrick really fucked them with that device. If you do see microsoft announce a kinect-less bundle early, like at e3, keep in mind that means they are eating A TON of money. And that has to be worrying for a division that certain people would like to see sold off...


I dig my xbox one but they have serious hurdles to overcome. I also love my Vita and it had serious hurdles to overcome... and it didn't. It needed Gravity Rush or Soul Sacrifice to become a Monster Hunter-like phenomenon and it didn't happen. So for the rest of its lifespan it will be a niche device. Shit happens.
Click to expand...

Excellent post.
 
Mentok said:
I don't believe Microsoft can simply drop Kinect. They invested heavily into it as a product that the consumer needs. They won't abandon it from a few months of sales. Now if this trend continues for the year, then they may make changes. I don't believe the current sales figures spell "doom and gloom" as much as they are simply below projections for MS.
Click to expand...
Question is more like, what are they going to do if they drop it? They'd still have the weaker console for a (either way) nearly identical price. They have, during the last couple of years, they basically eradicated their First Part support and therefore would have to start from almost scratch again. I think at this point their better off justifying Kinect than excluding it.
 
EventHorizon said:
Yikes!!! I was just scanning the Amazon best selling list, and the XB1 really is just a Titanfall console right now. The first non-Titanfall game doesn't appear until MGS V at #71, with Call of Duty Ghosts at #90 as the only other non-Titanfall game on the list. Even though Titanfall is doing well, that's putting all your eggs in one basket. I'm not sure if this makes it easier for the XB1 to get an exclusive since Titanfall is doing so well, or will it make it harder because the general sales are on the PS4 side. Either way it will definitely make it more expensive to buy XB1 exclusive content.

Code: 
Amazon Best Selling in Video Games  
  (XB1 vs PS4 - Current Sales)
===================================
 1: ## Playstation 4 Console ## 
 2: XB1 - Titanfall
 7: ## Titanfall Xbox One Console ## 
 9: PS4 - MGS V
10: PS4 - Infamous Second Son
27: PS4 - Call of Duty Ghosts
28: PS4 - Killzone
37: PS4 - Need for Speed
39: PS4 - Assassin's Creed Black Flag
44: PS4 - Batman: Arkhan Knight
49: PS4 - FIFA
50: PS4 - NBA 2K14
51: PS4 - Watch Dogs
59: PS4 - Battlefield 4
61: XB1 - Titanfall CE
71: XB1 - MGS V
75: ##  Xbox One Console ## 
90: XB1 - Call of Duty Ghosts
97: PS4 - Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition
98: PS4 - Madden 25
99: PS4 - Thief
Click to expand...
This doesn't really say much without knowing the distribution though. For all we know PS4 and XB1 Titanfall is literally all that's selling, and the rest is just scraps.
The most interesting thing here I think is that Titanfall is ostensibly a lot stronger than Infamous, even given the larger install base of the PS4. There's some fight in Xbone left.


Prototype said:
For simplicity sake let's say the PS4bone do the same total numbers. ~160 million. I could see it being skewed 90/70 in Sony's favor.

While ~70 million wouldn't be the best for MS, it surely won't be deemed a "failure".
Click to expand...
Right now 70 million will be a resounding success story for Xbox One. I don't see them getting above 40. Likely a lot lower. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it was trending slightly above Wii U. Xbox' 'constituency' has all but evaporated outside of the States.
 
MutonCommander said:
I don't get the logic behind wanting Microsoft to leave the console space. It's a huge company with vast resources, it is good for console gaming to have companies of that size invested in the industry. Sure, Microsoft needed a bloody nose but I really hope it doesn't quit trying. That would be a disaster.
Click to expand...

Yeah because huge companies with vast resources have a great history of really pushing forward innovation and creativity in the games industry!
 
spekkeh said:
The most interesting thing here I think is that Titanfall is ostensibly a lot stronger than Infamous, even given the larger install base of the PS4. There's some fight in Xbone left.
.
Click to expand...

dunno how much of an accurate indicator it is though...titanfall comes out tomorrow while infamous is over a week away. and infamous collector's edition is sold out too...

edit: nvm
 
Bgamer90 said:
Yeah, exactly me thoughts. Would be interesting to get more details on store availability in relation to Amazon/online sales for these consoles.
Click to expand...

There could be a bit of that however two points:

1) Although Amazon is more visible since their entire stock is aggregated and accessible online while each brick and mortar store gets its own shipment, is there any evidence that Amazon gets more units in total?

2) The ratio of the Year-to-Date Sales vs Current Sales between XB1 and PS4 are pretty similar. The Year-to-Date values contain more data points from the beginning of the year when both consoles were out of stock so it should be less susceptible to bias. If there was a large selection bias due to the PS4 being easier to find on Amazon then the percents should differ more than they do.

Code: 
Games in Top 100
Current Sales
================
XB1:  3    17.6%
PS4: 14    82.4%

Games in Top 100
Year-to-Date
================
XB1:  2    14.3%
PS4: 12    85.7%
 
bishoptl said:
Then why am I being charged an extra $100 for the 'privilege'?
Click to expand...

So, to recap:

"I don't have to use my phone camera!"
"You don't have to use your Xbox's camera either."
"Then why am I being charged for it!?"

You're being charged for it because it currently comes as part of the package. It not being welded to the machine doesn't change this. You don't have to use the Kinect, but in choosing not to do so, you lose some of what would considered the standard functionality of the Xbox One. Similarly, by opting not to use your phone's camera, you lose some of the basic functionality of the phone.

Could MS choose to sell the Xbox One without the Kinect? Sure. Much like how Apple could choose to sell an iPhone that lacks a camera. Currently both choose not to, and I don't see why this is such a big deal. I don't use the BluRay drive of either my PS4 or my XB1, yet I'm not complaining that I've obviously been charged for them. They're part of the package as of now. It's pretty simple.
 
Titanfall should not have much trouble outselling inFamous. The gap isn't that huge in North America, and it would be a leap in logic to assume that people who are spending most of their time with BF or COD would necessarily find inFamous interesting. It should do just fine overall though. It is hitting PS4 at roughly the same time Onimusa hit PS2, and with a larger install base to sell to. Sucker Punch is on the smaller side of "AAA console release" development teams so the burden of success isn't as high. They're not stuck trying to move the chains forward for the platform like early PS3 games were either.

I'm still interested to see how E3 goes. I do not recall many (any?) instances where a completely unannounced, full retail release exclusive wasn't known about prior to E3 but was out later that fall. If that holds and Halo 2 remake is Microsoft's biggest exclusive this fall... somebody fucked up. Bad.
 
SicSemperTyrannis said:
The people saying there is no coming back from their current state are crazy short sighted. Sony was in worse shape with the PS3 in the early years and they turned it around pretty well. I realize that Microsoft had plenty of advantages with the 360 vs PS3 scenario.

Regardless though, there is no reason to claim the ship has sailed or that there is no way to salvage the Xbox brand or that the only hope they have is to slow the bleeding with no chance of doing more. Microsoft has a ton of options to put themselves into a better position within the various markets they are available. Now whether or not they decide to be aggressive to regain their lost market share would make for a much more interesting discussion.

It just seems silly to me that anyone claim a difference of a couple million boxes out of the gate is a death sentence for the competing console. I'm not trying to downplay what Sony has been able to accomplish with the PS4 at all, but there are plenty of thing that could be done to boost sales of the X1, especially in the US. I do agree that winning WW is out of the question unless they have some serious surprises in store. I've always said that last Gen would have been a massacre WW, even the US, if the PS3 and 360 were launched in the same year closer to price parity. Now we get to see how much of a massacre Microsoft is willing to stomach before taking action.

Either way, lets just all agree that Microsoft and Sony are both doing very well and the race is far from over. Cheers all! :)
Click to expand...

You misinterpreted what I meant by saying "the ship has sailed". I was referring to the BRAND itself, as in the public's perception of the product. Although this is indeed related to long term sales projections, this is not the same thing. You seem to have conflated the two.

Having said that, given the absolute and irrefutable evidence we all have at our disposal of just how poorly MS designed and rolled out the Xbone, I would say that any rational person would have to come to the conclusion that this ship has indeed sailed, meaning the Xbox brand's reputation has definitely, without a doubt taken a severe hit. To say otherwise would be either a major denial of reality or indicate someone has a vested interest in helping MS PR spin the truth.

This does not mean that the Xbone is "finished" and is going to be a total failure. The statement is what it is: the reputation of the product line and the people who launched this generation has without a doubt gone downhill. They may be able to make up some of the lost ground, but to cheerily say that "both sides are doing well" ignores reailty when one console is outselling the other 2:1 globally, with all indications the divide is only going to escalate. There are some parallels to the previous gen, but none that indicate MS can make a similar comeback as Sony did with the PS3. This is very much apples and oranges. On a personal note, I did my part and own a couple of both new consoles...and in general am happy with both for slightly different reasons...but MS's mishandling of the Xbone thus far is shocking and will no doubt be taught one day in business schools as a perfect example of how a company can seize defeat from the jaws of victory by mishandling the brand. Only time will tell on overall sales numbers and I do agree that its best to be hopeful MS will grow a brain and make the right moves because competition is good for consumers. But given how tone deaf their leadership seems to be I wouldnt hold my breathe.
 
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