pieatorium
Member
xbox one will sell millions more units in the US than the wiiu will sell worldwide
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Bonus Round - Is Time Running Out For Xbox?
- Thread starter iNvid02
- Start date
xbox one will sell millions more units in the US than the wiiu will sell worldwide
EventHorizon
Member
Actually it does tell us something. It tells us the XB1 ecosystem is more homogeneous. If you were an indy studio which system would you rather release on? Also as I said, MS is putting all their eggs in one basket. If MS loses Titanfall, it is really going to hurt. That puts a lot of pressure on them to keep it exclusive, but that is not going to be cheap.
I can understand why Titanfall is doing so well on the XB1, but why isn't everyone else. Why isn't Assassin's Creed in the top 100 list for XB1? What's going to happen to the sales chart after Titanfall starts to decline? Those are all valid interesting questions.
CadetMahoney
Member
Microsoft doesn't have the brand loyalty Sony has. Look at yurop.
Also MS is in general pretty much despised all over the world. Especially with the DRM failed attempt and NSA backdoors they allow in their programs.
I'd go as far as to say they have little to no fans except a handful of diehards who are quickly banned.
Not to mention there is no comeback because of the vastly inferior hardware, paying $60 for inferior games and Kinect has not proven anything to most gamers.
I'm going to be a bit controversial and say that I think the Xbox One will be just fine. It's too soon to panic, but never too soon to continue to evolve and offer customers better value whether its game pack ins, cheaper SKUs (with or without Kinect), and other options. Way too soon to freak out and signal doom and gloom. Come back this time 2015 and we can get a much better picture of the console landscape.
Good posts. I think it is as you say, at least for me too. In a transition period, I'm completely willing to jump ship if one console seems to be the better console for me.
Kinda...off topic example, but when I was moving to a secondary school, I always had my mind set on the secondary school near me, but when it came to checking schools out, suddenly that school didn't seem so good to me and when I checked out this over school, I was quiet cause I didn't quite want to admit it was better, but at the end, I accepted it and went there.
I do think however some will always stick to one console regardless of if they don't truly believe their console is better. I guess some really do put brand loyalty before anything else. I know one person who got an X1 as he was under the impression it was the most powerful, don't think he's ever had a Sony console either. Personally to me, brand loyalty simply gives you a "point" and the new console has to earn the others.
FeiRR
Banned
Microsoft has a history of corporate imperialism which dates back to 1980s. Also most people who've never touched a console but use Microsoft products every day at work genuinely hate Microsoft for Windows 8 and new versions of MS Office. That's a more deeper and profound hate than any console fanboy could ever reproduce. Also well earned and justified.
I think it's safe to say that stuff like LoL and indie titles are taking away far more of the console marketshare than shovelware of any sort. Minecraft sold 35million copies and is still selling tons. LoL currently has more than 67million unique players per month. I think the big problem for consoles is straight forward - they're stodgy. The major players are all scared shitless of uncertainty and so the variety and number of titles on consoles continues to go down the drain as a consequence. A quick wiki search gives:
PS3: 780 released games
360: 1,119 released games
PS2:
3,870 released games
Break those numbers down by genre and it'd be even more pitiful. The figures don't include PSN/Live only titles, but that doesn't change the result. Why/how did this happen? It's also very relevant that the PS2 gen only lasted about 6 years. We get a gen that lasted years longer and ended up with a fraction of the games and a complete breakdown of diversity.
I don't see much of a similarity with the Apple iphone's camera.
Apple includes it because it is what the mobile market have to come expect when purchasing a smartphone.
The problem here is that a device such as the Kinect does not have the same privilege of being viewed as the standard for a gaming console.
FullMetalx117
Member
Part of Microsoft's vision, well I guess Mattirck's vision, was to make Kinect a standard for console gaming. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's called innovation.
Now people embracing that vision/innovation is another story
For numbers roughly between 20 million and 100 million, "success" or "failure" isn't defined by where you end up, but how you get there. Gamecube is a smashing success compared to PS3, even though it was third in unit sales in its gen while PS3 may have the legs to roll to a stop in first.
MS's willingness to play really damned hardball, with the 80-pound pricedrops or million-unit bundle deals or presumably 9 digits to EA for Titanfall exclusivity, is extremely hazardous from this perspective.
bigboss370
Member
forget people embracing it, MS themselves haven't embraced it! Where's the kinect games? Why did Ryse get turned into controller centric game? If MS themselves don't show they believe in it how will the consumers?
You've made this argument a couple of times in this thread but I don't buy it. Apple doesn't need to buy the Xbox name to push further into the gaming market. What does the Xbox name give Apple? Mindshare? You think Apple needs more mindshare?
Besides (and this might be painful to hear), hardcore gaming isn't a valuable market to a company as big as Apple. There's just not enough money in it to be worth the engineering resources. Not when they're pulling in over $10 billion a quarter in profit.
Neuro
Member
There might not even be a physical next gen, I think it will be could based largely and we as consumers will be playing across multiple devices, Platform wars will translate into which one gives consumers the best service and value for money proposition...
So it was always a standard? Or did someone at some point decide to add a camera and just include it in the cost of the phone?
The Wii Remotes weren't standard either. Should those have been sold separately, with the machine instead being packaged with a Classic Controller?
The manufacturer can decide whatever equipment they want to sell as the standard base for their product. You can probably get it changed by not buying it, but it's not like they're committing some horrible crime to attempt to sell it as they originally intend it to be used.
Innovations are novel approaches to satisfy existing requirements.
One might argue that in the case of Kinect there aren't really many important requirements that the device satisfies, as is evident by the lack of ideas and implementations with high impact on the industry over the last years. In this case, there is indeed something wrong with that vision. It's called being a fad.
FullMetalx117
Member
i agree. Microsoft really needs to show why Kinect is worth it, why the technology is a necessity, etc.
I think surface is more of a core product for MS than Xbox, as it is pushing windows and trying to compete in the fast growing tablet space which is eating traditional computing marketshare. Plus it is early on for that product, and MS have shown willingness to invest heavily for a while, until completely proven to be a failure, then they drop it.
Personally I see no reason to ditch Xbox other than internal politics and shareholder nonsense. It is a distraction rather than a core revenue driver, but it is still a potential on-ramp for MS services, so why not keep it around? Even if they get their asses handed to them, the lack of competition from Nintendo means they'll make a tidy sum over this generation. And if they want another round, they can look at a short generation like they did with Xbox one, to give themselves a head start, or try a different tack (maybe a lower priced, even more TV-centric box)
I don't see MS bailing it out massively this time though
Yup. This is MS greatest failing with the XB1 thus far imo. You put all your eggs in Kinect yet have no AA/game changing software to show WHY Kinect is is worth it?
What were they thinking?
Hopefully many of the ID@Xbox projects will show off some cool uses of it. It will probably take indies risking something to make something fun and interesting.
Also, just like the Wii-U, let it get its first year done before we doom it! Damn, people are quick to jump on the doom wagon. E3 could be a turning point for any of the big three, so lets just wait a bit.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I'm hoping at least 30 million units more.
Hmm. How much would it cost MS to just up and buy EA? A ton of their exclusivity seems to be with them, EA have clearly made a fortune from MS. Why not just go the whole hog?
EventHorizon
Member
Apple is sitting on $100-140 billion dollars in cash. They'd love to get a better return on investment than just leaving it in the bank. I mention that because I don't agree with your logic, but I do agree with your conclusion.
I can't see Apple buying Xbox. First off, Xbox One has Windows 8 buried pretty deep in it so no matter what, Microsoft can't totally sell the Xbox. Would apple want to be tied at the hip to Microsoft and stuck supporting Windows 8. I don't think so. Second, Apple likes to do there own thing, and Xbox has too much history to it. It'd be too constraining for Apple.
They didn't bundle Kinect for gaming purposes. They bundled it to use it as a more convenient control device for apps and for NuAds, and they let their gamer fanbase pay a premium for these additional sources of revenue.
Wouldn't EA lose the NFL license this way?
It would probably just turn another company into EA within a couple of years.
pieatorium
Member
E3 could be a turning point for any of the big three, so lets just wait a bit.
the only thing that e3 might turn around is the xbox one and only if the words $399 are said. WiiU is done, 3ds has fired all its guns, Vita is done, even a turnaround for for MS isn't going to stop the ps4 train
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Mattrick joined up in 07 and became boss in 2010...
Looking back, things got progressively worse year after year after he showed up....
The xb1 is the culmination of his incompetency and/or arrogance as to the consumer desires....
Now the division is scrambling to clean up a mess that could potentially cost microsoft hundreds of millions over the next 5-10 years...
Interesting idea, but I'm not sure that would work. I'd imagine somewhere in the agreements with various sports leagues there is a clause that would preclude Madden, or Fifa for example from being exclusive to Xbox.
Duxxy3
Member
Mattrick getting moved to head of xbox coincides perfectly with me abandoning my 360. They just went in a completely different direction than what I wanted. So far the new leadership is doing a better job, but there is a lot of cleaning up.
Hopefully many of the ID@Xbox projects will show off some cool uses of it. It will probably take indies risking something to make something fun and interesting.
Also, just like the Wii-U, let it get its first year done before we doom it! Damn, people are quick to jump on the doom wagon. E3 could be a turning point for any of the big three, so lets just wait a bit.
Is that the same indies that were pissed off at ID@Xbox for not allowing them to release on other platforms before Xbox? Ones that couldn't afford to sit on completed versions while developing an Xbox version? Now they suddenly have tons of free money and time to experiment with a peripheral that only one platform has access to, and the lower selling platform as well.
Just like the WiiU, the manufacturer has the responsibility to seed the market, to show why the kinect (and gamepad) are so great that they are worth charging everyone more money for their console. Indies might come up with some nice ideas, but they shouldn't be expected to drive uptake.
If i choose not to use the camera, my phone still makes calls, receives texts, performs all of the basic functions of a phone at the same level of quality as the competition.
That is not the case here.
Hence the constant posts about Kinect being the differentiating factor that sets Xbone apart from PS4, it shouldn't be removed etc. So if it truly is part of the package, rethinking what that package truly needs to be should be priority 1 for the hardware team, because clearly the 'value proposition' is not shared by the consumer base, even in what were previous generation market strongholds.
It is a millstone and needs to be jettisoned.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
I'm getting a little.. wait, a lot sick of the doomsaying this early in the generation.
Give the seeds time to grow, or else no time for rose to show.
Give the seeds time to grow, or else no time for rose to show.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
I was under the impression that dance central sold less with each iteration.
kinect might be pretty awesome this time around but the problem is no 3rd party will support it properly. designing around kinect basically means your making an xbox one exclusive which halves your potential install base. the only way a 3rd party would commit to that is if Microsoft floats the bill. so outside of Microsoft pushing some cash around only first parties might be supporting it which makes it an unneeded expense for the most part.
the voice control is the main feature people seem to like with kinect, a feature that should have been built into the console while the kinect being sold as a add-on for streaming/kinect games. would have cut cost a lot and they probably could have beaten sony at the pricing game.
the voice control is the main feature people seem to like with kinect, a feature that should have been built into the console while the kinect being sold as a add-on for streaming/kinect games. would have cut cost a lot and they probably could have beaten sony at the pricing game.
SomethingInTheSea
Member
No, but the buyers of those game are so casual about gaming that they're still satisfied playing them on the 360 or even the wii. They won't be potentially buying an xbox one until the price has dropped dramatically, probably in about 2 years or more.
Pachter is like a Kameleon. His skin changes when reality sets in. Bold predictions that make no sense months before something happens. Then when we all see it was just nonsense to grab headlines, he changes his mind and uses common sense.
Market cap is $9bn or so, so a bid would be expected to be higher. EA would also be worth significantly less in MS's hands, between decreased sales of most titles, loss of exclusivity deals, and the inability to play MS and Sony against each other for handouts.
It would likely raise a lot of eyebrows at the FTC, to say nothing of EU regulators, and it would cost the same amount as literally handing out twenty million Xbones for free. It's a nonstarter.
Well they've certainly laid down plenty of horse shit, so they should be well fed.
So many words to say "He is an analyst".
Not really.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Ms and Nintendo dropped the ball. This gen is the second coming of Sony Computer Entertainment.
Sony itself might shit the bed, but it won't be from the huge profts the entertainment division is about to receive.
Sony itself might shit the bed, but it won't be from the huge profts the entertainment division is about to receive.
Right. And that camera makes the package more expensive, so the vast majority of gamers are opting for the camera-less competitor. Saying "you could just not use it" isn't valid because those same people will buy the system that doesn't charge them anything extra.
AdventureRacing
Member
The difference is people actually use their camera phones, good luck selling a smartphone without one. This wouldn't matter if people gave a shit about kinect but right now it's just adding an extra $100 to the price tag and making xbone sales tank.
Blu-ray again is a feature most people consider useful whatever you think of it. Further it is actually used to play games as well. Removing the blu-ray drive impacts the functionality of the console far more than removing kinect.
The comparisons aren't needed and they aren't apples to apples. The simple question is would they be moving more HW if they had a kinectless sku and the answer to me is a resounding yes.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
That would be interesting. A publisher notorious for closing studios buys another publisher that's notorious for closing studios. Microsoft will have shut down EA within a year. And every single IP mothballed.
ethomaz
Banned
I easily believe that... I guess most TF buyers already had the One.
Meh, to me, there really aren't many good games on either system and in the end that's what matters IMO. Who has the best games.
I honestly think Sony will win the games competition in single player experiences with its amazing first-party games (particularly Naughty Dog's output over the next 5 years - I have high expectations).
I do kinda of expect Xbox One to beat Sony's game library when it comes to multiplayer experiences. Although, with Destiny being promoted mostly on PS4, that could be a sign of some changes to come.
I own both consoles and a great PC so I win no matter what
As far as Xbox brand dying due to dismal sales... I just don't see it happening very soon. They are at least, all in for this new generation and are going to do whatever they can to persuade more people to buy Xbox Ones. I'm just hoping we get some new, interesting, original, and impressive games from both these consoles. I have no stakes in the console war. Other than Halo being my favorite IP so I at least want that to be good and successful. H2 Anniversary could be a step in the right direction and could definitely sell some Xbox Ones on its own.
Sony clearly has the multi platform advantage being cheaper and more powerful. Only way Microsoft can beat that is by making some really good games.
I honestly think Sony will win the games competition in single player experiences with its amazing first-party games (particularly Naughty Dog's output over the next 5 years - I have high expectations).
I do kinda of expect Xbox One to beat Sony's game library when it comes to multiplayer experiences. Although, with Destiny being promoted mostly on PS4, that could be a sign of some changes to come.
I own both consoles and a great PC so I win no matter what
As far as Xbox brand dying due to dismal sales... I just don't see it happening very soon. They are at least, all in for this new generation and are going to do whatever they can to persuade more people to buy Xbox Ones. I'm just hoping we get some new, interesting, original, and impressive games from both these consoles. I have no stakes in the console war. Other than Halo being my favorite IP so I at least want that to be good and successful. H2 Anniversary could be a step in the right direction and could definitely sell some Xbox Ones on its own.
Sony clearly has the multi platform advantage being cheaper and more powerful. Only way Microsoft can beat that is by making some really good games.
How much are you guessing they paid for Titan Fall when all is said and done between the bundle and exclusivity deal?
sony has already shit the bed, were just waiting for the the cleaner to throw it out. I think this is the generation that playstation splits off into its own thing or sony sells off the division in an attempt to save the rest of the company.
There's virtually no first party support for kinect, other than the gimmicky stuff that never lingers very long into a new hardware cycle. Voice support is nice, but only because their UI is kind of crap. They made it standard because the original sold very well, but I feel that the casual market is very 'over and done' with tech. They abandoned Guitar Hero, they abandoned the Wii, and kinect is firmly old news to them. If they wanted to chase after the casual market that bought the original kinect, they needed to do something new reinvigorate interest. Not just say, 'Hey, it sort of works this time.' Maybe if it was perfect, and they had a good game to sell it, that would make a difference. But it still has problems, and there's no flagship software to push it. So it's nothing but a $100 anchor on the system.