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[GlamFM]

I think they are still too easy on the XBOX.

Even if they ever get to the same price as the PS4 - which I think will never happen because Sony would just drop the price as well - the still have and forever will have the weaker system.

And the message is out there - my "casual" friends know about this.

Sony is 100 dollars/euros closer to a price that starts with a 2!

They don´t need to be the same price as Sony - they need to be significantly cheeper.

Wont happen.

I own both next gen systems btw.

 

[pieatorium]

I think they (especially Pachter) are still too easy on the XBOX.

Even if they ever get to the same price as the PS4 - which I think will never happen because Sony would just drop the price as well - the still have and forever will have the weaker system.

And the message is out there - my "casual" friends know about this.

Sony is 100 dollars/euros closer to a price that starts with a 2!

They don´t need to be the same price as Sony - they need to be significantly cheeper.

Wont happen.

I own both next gen systems btw.

Pacther was the one who mentions Sony is in the position to just keep undercutting the xbox anyway. I dont think he is talking in terms of what MS needs to do to beat sony, he is talking what they need to do to sell more xboxs at least thats the way i heard it..

 

[GlamFM]

Pacther was the one who mentions Sony is in the position to just keep undercutting the xbox anyway. I dont think he is talking in terms of what MS needs to do to beat sony, he is talking what they need to do to sell more xboxs at least thats the way i heard it..

You´re right - I thought it was Garnett. Edited my post.

 

[Steroyd]

I'm getting a little.. wait, a lot sick of the doomsaying this early in the generation.

Give the seeds time to grow, or else no time for rose to show.

The problem with giving time is that if Sony reaches 20 million sales before MS reaches 8 million then MS will be fighting an ecosystem ontop of an online community where there's more word of mouth and it all snowballs in a way that is not in their favour.

Prevention is the best cure and unless PS4 sales come to a screeching halt this month MS is going to have to do something to stop or slow down the PS4 train sooner rather than later.

 

[big_z]

Even if they ever get to the same price as the PS4 - which I think will never happen because Sony would just drop the price as well - the still have and forever will have the weaker system.

if Microsoft dropped the price I don't think sony would unless the console sales flipped and xbox took off. sony has mentioned that the price the ps4 is now is the absolute lowest they could go. I don't think they'll cut the price until the system becomes cheaper to make.

 

[BigDug13]

The problem with giving time is that if Sony reaches 20 million sales before MS reaches 8 million then MS will be fighting an ecosystem ontop of an online community where there's more word of mouth and it all snowballs in a way that is not in their favour.

Prevention is the best cure and unless PS4 sales come to a screeching halt this month MS is going to have to do something to stop or slow down the PS4 train sooner rather than later.

Now that both main systems have paid online, it's more important than ever for MS to keep people in their ecosystem. If they fall behind and people are getting more and more into the PS+ ecosystem, it snowballs from there as their friends get one too.

There will be fewer multi-console owners this gen because of the paid online.

 

[GlamFM]

The problem with giving time is that if Sony reaches 20 million sales before MS reaches 8 million then MS will be fighting an ecosystem ontop of an online community where there's more word of mouth and it all snowballs in a way that is not in their favour.

Prevention is the best cure and unless PS4 sales come to a screeching halt this month MS is going to have to do something to stop or slow down the PS4 train sooner rather than later.

I think the effect will probably snowball over time.

I have around 10 "casual" friends waiting for me to tell them what to buy.

They will get PS4s.

I think that´s pretty common - a lot of hardcore gamers have casual friends who will follow the leader.

 

[Mandoric]

How much are you guessing they paid for Titan Fall when all is said and done between the bundle and exclusivity deal?

There are a lot of question marks, but bundlewise:
* It's a digital copy, so it's likely to be per unit redeemed rather than per unit printed.
* Trying to check out retail availability on Microsoft's site gets me a frowning avatar saying something in Chinese, so I can't really guess what proportion of the 500k-750k units likely to be sold in March will be the bundle.
* We don't know how long the bundle will last, either.
* For standard digital copies, EA would receive $42 per unit sold.
* The deal seems to have been struck AFTER Xbone sales went south, so there's probably not a lot of room to convince EA that they're picking up buyers who otherwise would've bought one but skipped Titanfall.
* Assuming that the bundle produces a moderate sales bump and is basically all Xbone sales (a given, or it -wouldn't- produce a sales bump!), this is a monthly cost of $20-$30m minus whatever discount they can persuade EA to give.

Exclusivewise:
* Titanfall is a "CoD killer".
* CoD sells 8-10m units on PS3.
* EA makes around $30 from each of those units, giving us a ballpark value of a PS3 version at $240-$300m.
* Factors which may reduce this: Not an established series (first "hyped" CoD did roughly 6m), post-holiday launch, second-party treatment that is very hard to put a cash value on, marketing incentives where EA gains by having Titanfall featured but MS doesn't lose anything by featuring Titanfall rather than Ryse
* Factors which may increase this: Future lost sales from PS-only fans skipping 2 when they never played 1, any incentives on offer from Sony that were rejected

That's gotta be in the several hundred million range. For perspective, MS paid $50m for a 6-to-12-month, not lifetime, exclusive on the GTA4 DLC alone, and there's no way they expected the DLC to reach a 100% tie rate.

 

[michaelius]

Pacther was the one who mentions Sony is in the position to just keep undercutting the xbox anyway. I dont think he is talking in terms of what MS needs to do to beat sony, he is talking what they need to do to sell more xboxs at least thats the way i heard it..

Well once you remove kinect both consoles have similar cost of materials , both have online subscription to cover costs - so if microsoft wants to undercut Sony they would need to invest profits of other divisions into it.

Which i think won't happen as entertainment division is in bad place within Microsoft so investing additional bilion or two of dollars to bail it out of trouble again would be last decision new CEO wants to make.

 

[Steroyd]

Now that both main systems have paid online, it's more important than ever for MS to keep people in their ecosystem. If they fall behind and people are getting more and more into the PS+ ecosystem, it snowballs from there as their friends get one too.

There will be fewer multi-console owners this gen because of the paid online.

And the outlook gets worse for the Xbox in that respect because the console is practically a paperweight without a subscription. Sony could effectively outdo them in terms of marketing media features with a simple *PS+ not required.

 

[ymmv]

What's even more funny with this, is that Microsoft has only scored big in the U.S. & the UK with Xbox 360 after only selling 24+ million Original Xbox consoles worldwide. They didn't even have complete dominance like Nintendo had with the NES, SNES, & the Wii, or like Sony had with the PS1 & the PS2.

Both Nintendo & Sony clearly had a reason to be arrogant after winning two console generations in a row apiece, MS doesn't.

MS is so US centric that they actually believe that winning in the US makes them a global leader in videogame entertainment.

 

[justsomeguy]

If MS loses Titanfall, it is really going to hurt.

Disagree - everyone knows Titanfall 2 is going to be on the PS4, so it's not that Titanfall will be "lost" past v1, it was never part of the deal.

By the time Titanfall 2 is out there will be Halo, Quantum Break, and Sunset Overdrive (which leaves me a bit 'meh' but some people seem to be excited for?). Titanfall is launching into a relative vacuum of exclusives; by the time TF2 comes around the market will have moved on. (plus as many people are saying, PC is the best Titanfall platform and Titanfall won't shift that many units - if that's true then there's no reason why that won't be the same for TF2).

 

[George Claw M.D.]

Part of Microsoft's vision, well I guess Mattirck's vision, was to make Kinect a standard for console gaming. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's called innovation.

Now people embracing that vision/innovation is another story

Sony really screwed Microsoft by (smartly) unbundling the PS4 camera in the 11th hour. If Sony had bundled it in an attempt to achieve feature parity with Xbone, it would have been seen as an inferior "Me, too!" device that would have increased the cost of the PS4 and made the Xbone look much more competitive. More devs would make camera games or implement camera features in their games because it would have been a standard device for both consoles. But Microsoft would have boasted the "Better with Kinect!" line over and over. PS4's camera would always look like a negative when comparing the two systems.

But by unbundling the camera, Sony turned Kinect from an Xbone strength into a boat anchor around its neck. The Xbone is way more expensive than the PS4 thanks to Kinect. And there is less incentive for devs to utilize Kinect, with over half of current gen consoles lacking a camera. That's why it makes no sense when people argue against unbundling Kinect for fear of splintering the user base. For multiplat devs, the camera user base was already split the moment Sony decided to unbundle their camera.

 

[pieatorium]

Well once you remove kinect both consoles have similar cost of materials , both have online subscription to cover costs - so if microsoft wants to undercut Sony they would need to invest profits of other divisions into it.

Which i think won't happen as entertainment division is in bad place within Microsoft so investing additional bilion or two of dollars to bail it out of trouble again would be last decision new CEO wants to make.

if they remove kinect i see them aiming for parity with ps4 which sony can respond to. I dont see them doing a $150 cut in one hit. With kinect out they can eventually get price parity but it woul be 2 or 3 cuts to get them there.

This is assuming Sony does cuts itself of course. its more likely they just bundle stuff initially imo

 

[Jtrizzy]

Big post

Very interesting, thank you. I find it interesting to speculate as to how EA came out on this deal considering potential lost sales from PS3 and PS4 versions versus what Microsoft paid them.

Not only that, is it even feasible for Microsoft to buy exclusivity for the Gen? Very similar discussion to the GTA dlc, but on a much bigger scale.

 

[Alx]

Disagree - everyone knows Titanfall 2 is going to be on the PS4, so it's not that Titanfall will be "lost" past v1, it was never part of the deal.

By the time Titanfall 2 is out there will be Halo, Quantum Break, and Sunset Overdrive (which leaves me a bit 'meh' but some people seem to be excited for?).

Well if people love the parkour in Titanfall, there's no reason Sunset Overdrive can't be as exciting. (Although it may have a flavour of "me too" once it releases, but the crazy weapons and colorful graphics will help give the game its own personality, I hope).

 

[Nightengale]

Not only that, is it even feasible for Microsoft to buy exclusivity for the Gen? Very similar discussion to the GTA dlc, but on a much bigger scale.

Sure MS can. It won't be feasible though.

 

[Billen]

I can see Kinect and similar tech being used with VR experiences. Otherwise? Aside from kids games, nah. Need voice commands? I used to control my pc with it, using a cheaper microphone, a LONG time ago.

I just don't see it. Microsoft, you need to release an Xbox One Diskinect.

 

[Steroyd]

Very interesting, thank you. I find it interesting to speculate as to how EA came out on this deal considering potential lost sales from PS3 and PS4 versions versus what Microsoft paid them.

Not only that, is it even feasible for Microsoft to buy exclusivity for the Gen? Very similar discussion to the GTA dlc, but on a much bigger scale.

It's feasable, just not sustainable if EA want it to be up there with BF4, Fifa etc.

 

[Marvel]

I took this picture in Feb at a Saturn in Frankfurt. Not a single PS4 in the store.

February you say?

 

[Piggus]

Gaming needs Xbox One to do good for Sony to not get cocky again next gen

Only if they deserve to do good... And so far based on all the anti-consumer shit they tried to pull (and still DO pull), they most definitely don't.

 

[captainraincoat]

You've made this argument a couple of times in this thread but I don't buy it. Apple doesn't need to buy the Xbox name to push further into the gaming market. What does the Xbox name give Apple? Mindshare? You think Apple needs more mindshare?

Besides (and this might be painful to hear), hardcore gaming isn't a valuable market to a company as big as Apple. There's just not enough money in it to be worth the engineering resources. Not when they're pulling in over $10 billion a quarter in profit.

I agree apple probrably dont want a hardcore gaming console...but they do want to enter the same space as your game console
Apple have been dipping their feet in the water in loungeroom products with such things as the apple TV for a while now and its becoming more clear they are working on other products that will reside in your loungeroom like the long rumored apple TV (Full TV)

Their play into the loungeroom as much as people don't want to hear it will have an effect on console gaming as we know it for reasons i mentioned earlier
Their APP store is a monster and it will only get bigger with the more devices that can access it and in true apple fashion they will patent the shit out of everything to do with these devices and you will end up with the same sort of circus we have with samsung vs apple we have had for the past 5 years.

Xbox or Playstation may not be brands that apple would buy and simply take over....they would simply purchase the patents and sue anyone who even releases something similar to their product
This may come across as a very tinfoil hat anti-apple statement but the fact is that apple despite all the money its been making is under pressure to explore new areas and innovate and the video game market is a pretty big slice of pie to leave on the table and they have slowly been nibbling away at it with their Apps store and IOS games
as much as i love hardcore games having access to a game that i can download and play on my tv for under 10 bucks and then take it with me on my iphone/ipad and continue it seems pretty cool.....it probably wont kill off the hardcore gaming console but it will certainly shape how that consoles game library will look

Why spend millions of dollars developing some major title when you can spend a fraction and make just as much money back??

I dont think its a matter of if...but when this all starts

Edit...sorry about the formatting....typing on my IPAD of all things lol

 

[Memorabilia]

I don't think the Xbone is going to fall that far behind, frankly. The Xbone isn't a complete and utter failure. Unlike the Wii U, its powerful enough to handle downgraded versions of current-gen games, so buying the Xbone doesn't prevent an owner from enjoying those games entirely. This alone will keep the Xbone afloat.

However, everyone else will have a PS4. [That's potentially PS2-style domination. Microsoft need to ditch Kinect, bring the price down as low as they can stomach, and start pushing the Xbone as the most cost effective current-gen gaming solution. The cheaper alternative to Sony's premium console. Anything less than that, and this generation is already over. Microsoft cannot go toe to toe with the PS4. They built a weaker machine around a TV-centric vision that has been openly rejected by the market.Time is running out.

Well said.

A lot of us have been saying something similar since well before either system launched. It's unbelievable all of the collective brain-power at MS refused to acknowledge reality while a bunch of astute "hobbyists" such as ourselves could see this train-wreck coming weeks/months before launch. Then a seemingly clueless gaming press and horde of so-called "analysts" decided to stick their heads in the sand as well. I suppose forcing Mattrick out may have been the first sign some of MS's wheels knew they were in for a rough go of it. But it still doesn't seem as if anyone in Redmond realizes (at least publicly) how badly they mismanaged their brand and gave away the comfortable lead in consumer mind-share they had carefully built with the 360 over 8-9 years. It truly is one of the more historic cases of screwing the pooch that I've ever seen and it's been as plain as day to some of us for months. I'm not so sure that the entire future of the Xbone relies on how well Titanfall sells, but it sure feels that way. Simply amazing.

 

[Memorabilia]

There's virtually no first party support for kinect, other than the gimmicky stuff that never lingers very long into a new hardware cycle. Voice support is nice, but only because their UI is kind of crap. They made it standard because the original sold very well, but I feel that the casual market is very 'over and done' with tech. They abandoned Guitar Hero, they abandoned the Wii, and kinect is firmly old news to them. If they wanted to chase after the casual market that bought the original kinect, they needed to do something new reinvigorate interest. Not just say, 'Hey, it sort of works this time.' Maybe if it was perfect, and they had a good game to sell it, that would make a difference. But it still has problems, and there's no flagship software to push it. So it's nothing but a $100 anchor on the system.

Every time I think about this issue it just makes my brain hurt trying to figure out how the decision makers at MS thought it'd be a great idea to force the inclusion of a peripheral that raises the cost of the system $100 over its primary competitor yet has not one single fucking game that uses it during the launch window.

 

[Nydius]

I think surface is more of a core product for MS than Xbox, as it is pushing windows and trying to compete in the fast growing tablet space which is eating traditional computing marketshare. Plus it is early on for that product, and MS have shown willingness to invest heavily for a while, until completely proven to be a failure, then they drop it.

Microsoft really can't afford to keep propping up products like they once did with the original Xbox. This isn't the early 2000's anymore, which is to say Microsoft is nowhere near the same financial behemoth they once were. They're already losing cash hand over fist on the Surface line and their recently acquired (from Nokia) mobile line. If the Xbox loses the profitability it took a decade to obtain, it will be on the chopping block.

That doesn't mean it will go away, just that it will be decoupled from Microsoft. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, mind you. Microsoft thrived when they were a software provider who dealt directly to OEMs, Enterprise, and Consumers. Their devices divisions - except for the small, meaningless, things like Keyboards and Mice - have always pulled them under. Zune comes to mind.

Personally I see no reason to ditch Xbox other than internal politics and shareholder nonsense. It is a distraction rather than a core revenue driver, but it is still a potential on-ramp for MS services, so why not keep it around?

If they spin it off, Microsoft will still likely be the "contract" company who creates the core system software that powers the system. It's not like Microsoft would be completely hands off. They'd still be working closely with the new Xbox company to provide the core OS, Azure functionality, and would be an exclusive first party software developer/publisher. That fits the new CEO's core vision more than the current set up.

Besides, what "services" besides Xbox Live does the Xbox brand really push for Microsoft? It's not connected to Office 365 or SkyDrive. Smartglass doesn't seem to have motivated many people to care about Windows Phones or Windows tablets enough to drive sales of both the system and phones/tablets. I suppose one could argue that it brings MSIE and Bing to people but that's not a very strong argument for being a supposed "on-ramp" into bigger Microsoft services. Edit: If anything, the inverse is true: By renaming Zune into "Xbox Music" and tying in a lighter version of Xbox Live, Microsoft is using Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 to bring people into the Xbox ecosystem.

 

[Bumhead]

Not only that, is it even feasible for Microsoft to buy exclusivity for the Gen? Very similar discussion to the GTA dlc, but on a much bigger scale.

I don't think so at this point.

Unless there's a reversal of current sales trends and unless Titanfall absolutely lights up on Xbox One, I can't see EA being anywhere near as receptive to an exclusivity deal for Titanfall 2 and beyond. The existing deal cost about $100m, didn't it? With every month the PS4 outsells the Xbox that figure rises for Titanfall 2.

It's a deal that probably made sense for the first game, being a new IP and all. But EA are going to want to start pushing the brand beyond just the first game, and they have to be on as many systems as possible (including the leading one) to do that.

 

[Aaron]

Every time I think about this issue it just makes my brain hurt trying to figure out how the decision makers at MS thought it'd be a great idea to force the inclusion of a peripheral that raises the cost of the system $100 over its primary competitor yet has not one single fucking game that uses it during the launch window.

They seriously thought PS4 was coming in at $500. By the time of the E3 reveal, they could walk back some decisions, but kinect was too ingrained to discard along with all the other changes they were rushing to make.

 

[jelly]

That was actually Nvidia. Microsoft signed a really bad deal with Nvidia--which heavily favored Nvidia--to produce the GPU's for the original Xbox, and Nvidia milked it for a ton of profit then told Microsoft to shove off because they were done making parts for them.

Link

Can't really blame Nvidia, Microsoft tried to force a better deal for themselves after sales were poor which puts pressure on Nvidia to profit on lower chip production.

Graphics chip vendor Nvidia Corp. and Microsoft Corp. have settled their differences over the pricing of the graphics, audio and networking chips that Nvidia supplies for the X-box games console, the companies said today (February 6, 2003).



No details of the settlement were given but NVidia said that further details would be given during its quarterly analysts' conference call to be held on February 13.



The dispute flared up in April 2002 as Microsoft insisted on paying less for chipsets it had bought from NVidia (see April 29 2002 story).



In addition to resolving this pricing dispute, the two companies have agreed to collaborate on future cost reductions for the Xbox.



"This is a win for both companies, and we couldn't be more delighted with the results," said Jen-Hsun Huang, president and chief executive officer at Nvidia, in a statement. "Nvidia and Microsoft can now take our partnership to the next level and focus our substantial resources to maximize the full potential of Xbox game console."

 

[DieH@rd]

This video says it all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzDsYEPkSc4

 

[Steroyd]

This video says it all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzDsYEPkSc4

Lmao at that 1 person saying "booooooo"

 

[Tsundere]

Lmao at that 1 person saying "booooooo"

Apparently it was more audible love, and someone also screamed" Xbox sucks".

 

[TyrantII]

I'd like to think the problems are continued blow back for the terrible anti-consumer policies they wanted to enact and their penchant for trying to monetize ever sliver of value and consumer surplus afforded to gamers.

In my heart I know its really only because of the $100 and PS4 technical edge with multiplats; in that order.

 

[LAA]

The X1 hasn't even launched everywhere yet...how is time running out for it? Ha ha.

That said it has a lot that needs improving if it wants a hope of me getting one in the future, many of them being hardware issues, so probably won't be till they even make a slim version, when I start looking at them more seriously. I would like it more comparable to the PS4 in terms of power, but for that it is too late, and that will just be a weapon against it all of its life.
Other than that, nothing they can really do except get good games on their system, hopefully not be shitty means, (like that "You can't launch on our system if you launched on another system first" rule), which will just mean lack of respect for them from me and I'd just feel bad giving them money to do things like that.

 

[Tsundere]

The X1 hasn't even launched everywhere yet...how is time running out for it? Ha ha

It's out in the markets that are remotely relevant.

 

[Neifirst]

Has there been a site out there who's tried to do an analysis about the effect of Steam on HD console gaming? I imagine game sales follow something akin to the 80/20 rule where the most ardent fans are responsible for the lion's share of revenue. If a portion of that hardcore audience has migrated to PC for their multiplatform gaming, how much is really left for Sony and Microsoft to split?

 

[spekkeh]

Actually it does tell us something. It tells us the XB1 ecosystem is more homogeneous. If you were an indy studio which system would you rather release on? Also as I said, MS is putting all their eggs in one basket. If MS loses Titanfall, it is really going to hurt. That puts a lot of pressure on them to keep it exclusive, but that is not going to be cheap.

I can understand why Titanfall is doing so well on the XB1, but why isn't everyone else. Why isn't Assassin's Creed in the top 100 list for XB1? What's going to happen to the sales chart after Titanfall starts to decline? Those are all valid interesting questions.

Yes that's true, people apparently go to XB1 for multiplayer shooters, though not much else. If I would hazard an explanation it is that a significant portion of people that own an Xbox One, also own (or plan to own) a PS4, and use the Xbox One as a secondary console for exclusives. If that's true, then MS might be well and truly f*cked, because they have almost nothing to give their fans.

MS needs to open studios on the double, but much like Nintendo, are now too late basically.

 

[StuBurns]

The X1 hasn't even launched everywhere yet...how is time running out for it? Ha ha.

The 360 only beat the PS3 in two countries, the US and the UK. Finland isn't going to be Microsoft's silver bullet.

 

[LAA]

It's out in the markets that are remotely relevant.

Yeah true, but even where it has launched, its hasnt even been half a year yet.
If anything it feels X1 is fighting back more now, the TF X1 bundle comes to mind. The X1's strength SHOULD be that they should be able to sell it for less than a PS4, considering its inferior in terms of hardware. Its just Kinect bumping up the price, whether they'll remove it, no idea, but if they make it even just a little less than a PS4 with Kinect, I think it stands more of a chance.

Other than that, they can't do anything about performance of the X1 now (Which seems to be one of the major gripes with the system), and this may just be a personal issue for me, but trust in them has fell way down. Near the end of the 360's life it just felt like a wasteland and started feeling majorly ripped off paying for live AND at the same time, getting ads on my dashboard. That and the DRM issue, I feel they need to win back trust in someway.

The 360 only beat the PS3 in two countries, the US and the UK. Finland isn't going to be Microsoft's silver bullet.

Oh I may be getting what the title means now. I guess its more because, even if X1 launches in these countries, the PS4 already launched there and is more favourable in terms of public opinion and price/power to boot, and considering 360's sales last gen compared to PS3, X1 may not sell so well there.
Well, even in that case, wouldn't say its too late. MS just need to work on their image more and the price point. It will be interesting to see what they will do, if anything. Sony impressed me with how they changed the PS3 around, but that look a lot of effort/time/money, I'm not sure whether MS will bother there, but this is their chance to prove it, they haven't really been in a situation where its look bad for them at the start yet, so will be interested to see.
Really they should just accept the PS4 is a better machine at this point, fact, and the Kinect doesnt really change that, and they should aim at their price reflecting that. The best thing they can do at least for me, is make the next Halo more similar to Halo 3, having better custom games/forge options. They were the features that made me love Halo 3 the most, easily its biggest strength to me, so sad to see those features seemingly becoming less and less valued.

 

[Tsundere]

Yeah true, but even where it has launched, its hasnt even been half a year yet.
If anything it feels X1 is fighting back more now, the TF X1 bundle comes to mind. The X1's strength SHOULD be that they should be able to sell it for less than a PS4, considering its inferior in terms of hardware. Its just Kinect bumping up the price, whether they'll remove it, no idea, but if they make it even just a little less than a PS4 with Kinect, I think it stands more of a chance.

Yep you're right, it's only been half a year, if the trend continues, the gap will only widen and get worse for Microsoft.

The Titanfall bundle is performing poorly as per Amazon sales, behind PS4, and actually that goes for almost all Xbox One software as well. Being a multiplatform title, it gives people options and nor forcing them to pay $560+ to play a game.

 

[LAA]

Yep you're right, it's only been half a year, if the trend continues, the gap will only widen and get worse for Microsoft.

The Titanfall bundle is performing poorly as per Amazon sales, behind PS4, and actually that goes for almost all Xbox One software as well. Being a multiplatform title, it gives people options and nor forcing them to pay $560+ to play a game.

Really? Interesting. Was under the impression the TF bundle was catching up to PS4. The £360 price for the TF bundle was pretty tempting to me, I think the price would have done the same to others and actually succeeded in getting them to buy it.

As much as I'd like to see the X1 made into an ant compared to the giant PS4, ha ha, sadly I can't see that happening. Seeing the X1 isn't as far behind to the PS4 as I would have thought. I think a price drop and maybe kinectless bundle will get more people on board which will just narrow the gap.
Whether that will really affect the countries it has yet to launch in however, I'm not sure. If I was in one of the countries the X1 was planning to release in at launch and it got delayed in, I wouldn't be looking back at the X1 when it decided to launch in that country. X1 just need to improve their image and trust in those countries (As well as a whole imo)

 

[Louis Cyphre]

I don't need to use the camera in order to use the phone. This argument has been thoroughly debunked time and again over the past year.

So has the argument that Kinect has to be on.

Nah, xbox as a dedicated gaming system will be around for a long time. It's pretty much the entirety of microsofts entertainment division.

When you ask anyone under the age of 16 what the first thing they think of when you say microsoft, almost all of them will say xbox. It's an incredibly strong brand that has taken over a decade to build, Microsoft isn't just going to throw it away.

Those who don't like Microsoft will be the ones who will remain the most vocal they are going to somehow leave the XBox division. Yes there have been a couple of investors who said they would but they don't have any power to actually make it happen. As far as Elop he has never said publicly that he would have sold off the XBox either. It was reported from inside sources suggesting he would move away from Bing and XBox. The irony is now he's in charge of XBox and suddenly some people think he's going to get rid of it.

This. There's no guarantee that Microsoft will be able to get the same 46+ million owners in the U.S. & the same 25+ million owners in UK & Europe with Xbox One like they had with Xbox 360, just like that Sony didn't get the same amount of PS2 owners worldwide for PS3.

Of course there's no guarantee. Just like there was no guarantee Sony would be able to compete in handheld gaming against Nintendo yet they keep trying. Nintendo is now struggling with the Wii U. The market isn't within a vacuum, leaders shift all the time. That doesn't mean everyone is going to go the route of Sega or Atari.

I don't get the logic behind wanting Microsoft to leave the console space. It's a huge company with vast resources, it is good for console gaming to have companies of that size invested in the industry. Sure, Microsoft needed a bloody nose but I really hope it doesn't quit trying. That would be a disaster.

The disaster already occurred post PS2 where budgets have skyrocketed for AAA games which is why publishers are trying to release their games on as many platforms as possible.

The camera is sold out everywhere. People want it.

Sony has never told anyone how many cameras they have shipped.

You forgot the "And Nintendo still gonna Nintendo"

They can't even learn from their own mistakes

This is quite interesting given certain folks who are always against the XBox are never as vocal about Nintendo and their mishaps. Would it be that they are mostly made up of Sony fans who see Microsoft as more of a threat?

If that happens, then the meltdowns would be incredible.

The meltdowns are still occurring over Titanfall not coming to the PS4. Titanfall 2 coming to the PS4 would not be a meltdown because it's already been talked about from the makers of the game. Meaning it would be a bigger meltdown (most notably from Sony fans) if Microsoft manages to keep the ip on their Microsoft platforms.

Then why am I being charged an extra $100 for the 'privilege'?

The same reason why Wii U owners are paying a premium. They are offering something included with every purchase the competitors are not.

 

[delihuso]

It's never been a proven driving force in hardware sales.

People often cite that piece of trivia, the most powerful system has never won, and it's true, obviously it's going to win this time, but I'd doubt it's because of performance.

You are right, but you also have to take into account that historically the most powerful consoles have been more expensive than the conpetition. The PS4 is so much more powerful than the XB1 and also costs less.

Its a no brainer. The customer will ask themselves which console is more powerful and how much they both cost. The PS4 is more appealing when asking both of these questions.

 

[Memorabilia]

Yes that's true, people apparently go to XB1 for multiplayer shooters, though not much else. If I would hazard an explanation it is that a significant portion of people that own an Xbox One, also own (or plan to own) a PS4, and use the Xbox One as a secondary console for exclusives.If that's true, then MS might be well and truly f*cked, because they have almost nothing to give their fans.

MS needs to open studios on the double, but much like Nintendo, are now too late basically.

The bolded pretty much sums up my circle of friends who have largely "switched" to PS4 as our primary console. I own both and went into the purchase knowing full well the Xbone will only be used as an exclusive box. I've enjoyed Killer Instinct and Ryse...and am very much looking forward to Titanfall. So, I can't say the system has been a disappointment by any means. However, I purchased NBA 2K14, ACIV, and COD Ghosts for PS4 simply because they run/look better on Playstation. Given the disparity in hardware, this trend will continue. A couple of my friends who also purchased both do prefer shooters on the XB1 due to their preference for the controller, but given the controller differences are subjective this gen I don't think shooters are a guaranteed "win" for MS like with the 360. Most of our group simply prefer multiplats - even shooters - on PS4. Word of mouth on the PS4 is that it's the "cool" system and the Xbox One isn't as good or desirable. That is a very difficult thing to overcome.

 

[StuBurns]

You are right, but you also have to take into account that historically the most powerful consoles have been more expensive than the conpetition. The PS4 is so much more powerful than the XB1 and also costs less.

Its a no brainer. The customer will ask themselves which console is more powerful and how much they both cost. The PS4 is more appealing when asking both of these questions.

It's a factor, of course, but it's not as simple as even that.

The Xbox and the PS2 were the same price, the PS2 massively outsold the Xbox, the Gamecube, whilst not Xbox levels, still handily outperformed the PS2, and it also got destroyed. The Wii was cheap, but the performance gulf was truly colossal, and it won.

I think it was obvious Sony were going to win this generation, it's been obvious for a long time really. MS provided better value in terms of core gaming than Sony did last generation, and they had between and year and eighteen months headstart, and PS3 still pinched second place.

With every advantage possible, MS still couldn't get the silver. Even if it was currently even, Sony would win. I think this 'resolutiongate' is a huge red-herring in the console sales performances. The boxes could have exactly opposite specs, and I don't believe anything would be different.

 

[Steroyd]

Really? Interesting. Was under the impression the TF bundle was catching up to PS4. The £360 price for the TF bundle was pretty tempting to me, I think the price would have done the same to others and actually succeeded in getting them to buy it.

As much as I'd like to see the X1 made into an ant compared to the giant PS4, ha ha, sadly I can't see that happening. Seeing the X1 isn't as far behind to the PS4 as I would have thought. I think a price drop and maybe kinectless bundle will get more people on board which will just narrow the gap.
Whether that will really affect the countries it has yet to launch in however, I'm not sure. If I was in one of the countries the X1 was planning to release in at launch and it got delayed in, I wouldn't be looking back at the X1 when it decided to launch in that country. X1 just need to improve their image and trust in those countries (As well as a whole imo)

Narrowing the gap means outselling the PS4 significantly in the fewer countries they've released consistantly.

December NPD had the Xbox One outsell the PS4 by 45k or some paltry number like that which was probably mitigated by a country MS hasn't released in yet.

Never say never, but I'm not sure even a price cut would create an effect to that degree.

 

[Memorabilia]

The same reason why Wii U owners are paying a premium. They are offering something included with every purchase the competitors are not.

The problem is that Kinect offers nothing of value to most gamers, core or casual. I would venture a guess only a small percentage at this point are still onboard the Kinect train that MS has been trying to push uphill for quite some time. I have a couple Xbones, one with Kinect hooked up in my main room and one in my spare bedroom without it...and, frankly, aside from the UI being poorly implemented on the Xbone so far I really don't miss it at all when using the Xbone without Kinect hooked up. At all. Not to mention there are zero games that actually use this thing, which just boggles the mind they didn't get at least one killer app out for it during the launch window to show people "See! This is why you need Kinect!" That's a problem when the peripheral is central to the "vision" the company has been pushing for so long.

 

[Synth]

Whoa caught quite a few replies just after falling asleep. They all appear to be making roughly the same points, so I'll just give one reply.

If i choose not to use the camera, my phone still makes calls, receives texts, performs all of the basic functions of a phone at the same level of quality as the competition.

That is not the case here.

Hence the constant posts about Kinect being the differentiating factor that sets Xbone apart from PS4, it shouldn't be removed etc. So if it truly is part of the package, rethinking what that package truly needs to be should be priority 1 for the hardware team, because clearly the 'value proposition' is not shared by the consumer base, even in what were previous generation market strongholds.

It is a millstone and needs to be jettisoned.

Right. And that camera makes the package more expensive, so the vast majority of gamers are opting for the camera-less competitor. Saying "you could just not use it" isn't valid because those same people will buy the system that doesn't charge them anything extra.

The difference is people actually use their camera phones, good luck selling a smartphone without one. This wouldn't matter if people gave a shit about kinect but right now it's just adding an extra $100 to the price tag and making xbone sales tank.

Blu-ray again is a feature most people consider useful whatever you think of it. Further it is actually used to play games as well. Removing the blu-ray drive impacts the functionality of the console far more than removing kinect.

The comparisons aren't needed and they aren't apples to apples. The simple question is would they be moving more HW if they had a kinectless sku and the answer to me is a resounding yes.

Right, I'm not sure why all the responses are focused on if the market is responding well to the decision to include the camera. I don't recall making any assertions towards that. I was saying that it's currently part of the package being offered, and that's why you're charged for it. Hell, I said in this thread multiple times that the price needs to be addressed regardless. It's a valid comparison to a smartphone, in the same way it's a valid comparison to any product offering functionality or hardware outside of what is absolutely necessary for it to work. It's a choice the manufacturer made, and whether that choice leads to more or less sales, doesn't affect that they have a right to attempt to sell the product in what form they choose. The Wii U GamePad is no less valid a choice for Nintendo to have made, than the Wii Remotes with the Wii, regardless of the difference in success they saw at market.

Anyone who doesn't wish to buy an X1 due to the value proposition gets a PS4. That's MS' problem to deal with, and over time that may cause them to change what they offer. However, simply buying a PS4 is an option for people, so I don't see what the problem here is with the existence of the X1 as it stands. I'd also just like to add that the Kinect actually is also used for games too... and unlike the BluRay drive offers games functionality beyond what the same system without it would offer.

I'm not even sure how we got here really, as the topic was initially a comparison on privacy concerns. My first reply even states that the comparison with that is flawed due to the Kinect seeing/hearing you in a much wider case of scenarios. I was just saying that the comparison wasn't flawed for the reason Bish offered (that the camera was required for use). Somewhere along the lines this got pretty far off track.

The problem is that Kinect offers nothing of value to most gamers, core or casual.

This is also true of the Wii U GamePad though, so it's still valid point.

 

[TsuWave]

Gaming needs Xbox One to do good for Sony to not get cocky again next gen

ps1 dominated and i don't think they were "cocky" with the ps2

nonetheles, we are a couple months into this gen, envisioning what might happen next gen if one of the current consoles dominates is hasty since this generation hasn't even begun to be defined

 

[newjeruse]

Why is Garnett continuing to push this false narrative about inFamous' marketing? I've already started seeing commercials for it on television, which you couldn't say for The Last of Us this early before release. And that doesn't even include the general Playstation brand commercials, which feature inFamous heavily. I'm not sure where he's getting this information that Sony is burying it as if it's Starhawk or something.

Edit: Also, was this filmed in the corner of Geoff's office?

 

[Memorabilia]

Anyone who doesn't wish to buy an X1 due to the value proposition gets a PS4. That's MS' problem to deal with, and over time that may cause them to change what they offer. However, simply buying a PS4 is an option for people, so I don't see what the problem here is with the existence of the X1 as it stands. I'd also just like to add that the Kinect actually is also used for games too... and unlike the BluRay drive offers games functionality beyond what the same system without it would offer.

Really? Where are the Kinect games?

You do realize that the highest rated Kinect game of last gen was The Gunstringer which is rated a 77 on Metacritic?

The most use my old Kinect ever got was when my girlfriend fired up Fruit Ninja once a month to play for an hour, which would be funny if it wasn't true.

I understand your point that Kinect "offers something more"...but the problem is that in the real world it really doesn't, at least not for most gamers. Objectively, the PS3's BR drive offered FAR more real world value/functionality in 2007 for PS3 early adopters.