mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Then why not just say "months ago"?
-
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Brad Sams: XBox Lockhart is cancelled.
- Thread starter LittleBusters
- Start date
Then why not just say "months ago"?
ethomaz
Banned
I don't know.
I'm just saying that one claim doesn't make the other false... there is 25% chance that both are true.
1) Matt is wrong and Verge is true
2) Verge is wrong and Matt is true
3) Both are wrong
4) Both are true
There is only 4 options.
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Munki
Member
I am not sure, but I think he was asked the same thing in the other thread. I'll try to comb through to see what his answer was, the convo was pretty interesting last night, lots of insight from ppl who are more in the know.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Hmmmm...yeah check that out as I don't go over there. But you make it sound very interesting. I might have to take a peek lol.
Munki
Member
do ittttt
Dabaus
Banned
If dev kits went out post GDC then the feed back from devs and the cancellation of Lockheart would have to be between GDC and E3 2019? That would be "Many weeks ago" correct?
ethomaz
Banned
It is possible... people are questioning because Zhuge said in ERA that Lockhart was canned last year.
Dabaus
Banned
So now that the Lockheart is cancelled, do you guys think Sony, assuming they were aiming for 399, go buck wild and make a 499 machine? Maybe they were planning 499 all along but now will want to go 399? Maybe they will keep their cards close to their chest and not say anything on price until Microsoft does? What do you guys think?
I don't think Sony would raise their target price over something like this. They know the money is in services and software sales, and will be pricing their console to sell as many as possible while keeping any losses within reason is my guess.
Slings and Arrows
Banned
Even if this was a thing it never made any sense from a logical POV
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Two points about that.
1, I can't believe Peter Rubin asked about, and then left out, a quote about price.
2, Mark Cerny's quoted sentence couldn't be any more PR and I'm sure it was a pre-prepared answer from the team knowing it would be asked. Sony were probably shocked it wasn't included in the original article!
Bonus: I think there is still as much a chance for a $399/£349 price as any other.
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Codes 208
Member
I think they’d keep a level head and continue doing their thing. Whiles its possible it could be $499 system, the ps4 launched as the stronger system at $399 so i think they know their own sweet spot.
I do too and actually expect it. They are making so much money on services and software I can't see them doing anything that could slow things down unless forced to, and I tend to believe they have really good leverage on the prices they will pay.
Is this somekind of a sick joke?
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah I don't think there's much of a future for cheaper, less powerful budget consoles. We'll just see one launch model in the $400-500 (or more with inflation as time goes on) at launch and more powerful mid gen refreshes going forward.
Xcloud, Stadia etc. services are the cheap entry point for more casual gamers going forward, hardware will be pricier and for core/hard core gamers who wouldn't be buying the cheaper, inferior console in large numbers anyway. The budget strapped crowd can just pay for streaming or wait and buy the base model console after price drops in 2-3 years like they do now, no need to cater to them at launch.
Xcloud, Stadia etc. services are the cheap entry point for more casual gamers going forward, hardware will be pricier and for core/hard core gamers who wouldn't be buying the cheaper, inferior console in large numbers anyway. The budget strapped crowd can just pay for streaming or wait and buy the base model console after price drops in 2-3 years like they do now, no need to cater to them at launch.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And PC games never take advantage of the fullest specs due to this, but rather, "brute force" non optimized lower spec baselines with added paint.
PC games would melt peoples minds if they could be designed from a high spec ground up, and not have to worry about lower spec machines.
The highest spec baseline for consoles is not only better for gamers, devs, game design, etc., but PC's as well, since they will have higher spec ports to take advantage of the tech people shell out on.
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I don’t believe 399 was ever the target to begin with. I firmly believe both the PS5 and Next Box will launch priced higher than 399 bucks.
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Dabaus
Banned
If you would have, ya know, quoted the rest of my post then you would answer your own question.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yep, I expect $499.99.
I expect the vast majority of big games will be cross gen. Budget conscious/limited folks can just play those games on their PS4s/Pros/X1s/X1Xs. With everything being X86 architecture now it will be a lot easier for devs to make things cross gen and maximize the potential market and Sony/MS don't care whether they're getting that $60-100 game/ultimate edition purchase, PS+/Live/Gamepass sub fee etc. on a last gen or next gen machine. There's less pressure to lose a bunch of money on each unit sold to drive up launch window hardware sales in that climate, so they'll go with $500 and see what happens.
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This was just some nonsense.
Mass Shift
Member
Well the only reason to keep your SoC team and your project leads in place is if you have something else for them to do. Even after they leave they can still do interviews for deep dives if they're called upon to do so.
Seriously if your job is done I don't need to keep you in house for anything, you and I would have even covered the SoC's roadmap towards future die shrinks in advance of your departure.
And on a related topic.
Despite what some here are suggesting, it really isn't possible for MS to begin "scaling back" Anaconda right now. If Anaconda always was planned to be the "Monster Eater" then MS can't change anything about it now. They're locked in. If it was originally supposed to be priced as a premium device they will have to take a considerable loss to be able to market it competitively.
Perhaps it was dev feedback, or maybe it was just a concept that became less desirable as XCloud became more efficient. And I actually thought Lockhart and Anaconda meant MS was going with a modular system this generation. That was MY way of making sense of it.
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LittleBusters
Banned
This sounds like FUD.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Well....we KNOW it was due to devs complaining about how difficult it was to make games for Lockhart "AND" Anaconda considering the game's scope. Plus XCloud is a major player for the Xbox team now. So it was both that made them change their minds.
Mass Shift
Member
Well let me put it this way for you. After everything that has happened with regards to these rumors? Until we get a leak with an accurate Scarlett sdk that has the appropriate 48GBs of gddr6, I will be sprinkling salt on EVERYTHING from here on out.
Including my neighbor's cat.
As long ad they can claim ownership of the most powerful console it is a good idea. It is not a good idea if they expect to compete with Sony or Nintendo with a similarly priced console and specs. Micrisoft needs a lane and that lane should always be "most powerful console ever"
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
I'm sorry why can't Microsoft make changes right now?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
So if you win bet I get your shiny silver dollar. If you lose the bet what so I give you?
(Please don’t demand my soul)
Mass Shift
Member
So they are not planning on another console after this?
More likely it's not being planned with the same team of engineers.
Mass Shift
Member
Make changes to their silicon? Too late for that.
Whatever they have is what they go with. Unless someone official says otherwise, Anaconda = Xbox Two
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
It's a good 6 months before silicone has to be final.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Microsoft's power is something to be reckoned with. They felt that it wasn't enough with just cancelling promising games like Fable Legends or Cancelbound so they had to cancel a next-gen console, too. It's gonna be scary once they manage to control the Infinity Glove properly.
Armorian
Banned
1. Why would it? Rumors suggest the opposite and Lockhart didn't have any impact on Anaconda internals
2. That's a given
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joe_zazen
Member
Source? Ive been told 18 months minimum from final tape out to store shelves.
HeresJohnny
Member
If this is true, Microsoft believes it can sell enough $500-$550 consoles to be competitive. (Hint: they can’t)
Edit: or maybe they genuinely believe their own bullshit with the “we don’t care about selling hardware we want to sell services” shtick. If that’s true, Sony should send them flowers, because if their main competitor’s plan to for the coming generation is to not sell hardware RIGHT before hardware is gonna come out, then they are fucked.
I’m fact, how is this supposed to make the consumer feel? “Buy our system or not, we don’t really care anyway we only want service customers.” Hmmmm, that’d get me to pause long and hard over investing in an Xbox if I was open to the idea.
Edit: or maybe they genuinely believe their own bullshit with the “we don’t care about selling hardware we want to sell services” shtick. If that’s true, Sony should send them flowers, because if their main competitor’s plan to for the coming generation is to not sell hardware RIGHT before hardware is gonna come out, then they are fucked.
I’m fact, how is this supposed to make the consumer feel? “Buy our system or not, we don’t really care anyway we only want service customers.” Hmmmm, that’d get me to pause long and hard over investing in an Xbox if I was open to the idea.
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Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
I should of clarified. They clearly cant go from something like Zen to Zen 2 or Vega to RDNA at this point without a significant change and reconstruction. That was always my understanding would take about 18-24 months.
But before the one year mark to ship they definitely could make smaller adjustments to CUs, CPU adjustments, clock speeds, etc.
Lukin1978
Member
Well said so much truth in this they are selling the xbox brand so hard because they are not selling the consoles.
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Mass Shift
Member
Well if all you're talking about is tweaks then sure, MS could make such adjustments. The question is why would they?
What would be the benefits to scaling back performance? The benefit certainly wouldn't be economical, at the end of the day they're still giving consumers the same architecture.
My point is that if you are MS, at some point Lockhart was revealed to be either unnecessary or impractical for you so you scrapped it. What then would be the usefulness in taking your flagship console and scaling it back to fill the gap that the lesser powered console was going to fill? The console you no longer need.
somerset
Member
Few here understand- but each new console gen begins with *very* ambitious multi-faceted plans that are almost always whittled down to something more streamlined before the new products finally hit the market.
*If* MS has cancelled the other console, it will be for only *one* reason- the performance war with Sony.
The plan was seemingly to have the same core *processing* power in both- or maybe the cheaper console scaled down to 1440 over the other's 4K. But the level of saving was going to be problematical, if the Xbox Next is to be the ultimate killer console.
Few here understand just how ambitious MS and Sony really are (hint- both are aiming far higher than leaked 'specs'). At least one can be expected to do something *stupid* (or excessive). And the other knows it, so it is like a bidding war at an auction.
At E3, MS said what I had already told you peeps here- that their *only* goal is the very best 2D (TV, not VR) traditional gaming platform that current hardware will allow. The cheaper console, as i said, was to be a derivative of the more expensive- which is technically problematic to say the least.
And given the coming shrink that the Xbox 1X will get soon, reducing its cost and making it the *basic* Xbox of the 'previous' gen, there was going to be an uncomfortable overlap. Or more likely the new cheaper console was to be in the stead of the shrunk 1X- and then the penny dropped about the price diff.
PS for the ill-informed dribblers dribbling on about a certain irrelevant MS person moving to Intel- it is *AMD* who are doing the only engineering that matters on the Xbox Next. MS's only job is to get their *software* working on AMD's hardware. MS's only input on the hardware side is just how much hardware they are prepared to buy per console. How big the dies are to be, and what the die configurations are (do *not* bank on just a single APU this time). MS pays the bills, and AMD does the work to spec. AMD needs a MS 'engineer' telling them how to do their job like I need a hole in my head.
*If* MS has cancelled the other console, it will be for only *one* reason- the performance war with Sony.
The plan was seemingly to have the same core *processing* power in both- or maybe the cheaper console scaled down to 1440 over the other's 4K. But the level of saving was going to be problematical, if the Xbox Next is to be the ultimate killer console.
Few here understand just how ambitious MS and Sony really are (hint- both are aiming far higher than leaked 'specs'). At least one can be expected to do something *stupid* (or excessive). And the other knows it, so it is like a bidding war at an auction.
At E3, MS said what I had already told you peeps here- that their *only* goal is the very best 2D (TV, not VR) traditional gaming platform that current hardware will allow. The cheaper console, as i said, was to be a derivative of the more expensive- which is technically problematic to say the least.
And given the coming shrink that the Xbox 1X will get soon, reducing its cost and making it the *basic* Xbox of the 'previous' gen, there was going to be an uncomfortable overlap. Or more likely the new cheaper console was to be in the stead of the shrunk 1X- and then the penny dropped about the price diff.
PS for the ill-informed dribblers dribbling on about a certain irrelevant MS person moving to Intel- it is *AMD* who are doing the only engineering that matters on the Xbox Next. MS's only job is to get their *software* working on AMD's hardware. MS's only input on the hardware side is just how much hardware they are prepared to buy per console. How big the dies are to be, and what the die configurations are (do *not* bank on just a single APU this time). MS pays the bills, and AMD does the work to spec. AMD needs a MS 'engineer' telling them how to do their job like I need a hole in my head.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
You do realise that Lockhart was just a rumour by the same people who made wrong predictions about E3. Funny, that just like Scalebound no one here wanted a cheaper alternative called Lockhart to exist, but suddenly everyone wants it now.
Instead of Lockhart, they will just keep selling Xbox One S/X as a cheaper alternative, which in my opinion is better. Just because something existed in the drawing board at some point does not mean it has to be put into consumers hand, otherwise they will be charged by Internet Morality Court.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
I wasn't saying they should. I was simply responding to the they can't make changes at this point.
But they also could improve things and go for a higher end experience and not scale scale back.
not really. people are still talking about the new flight simulator on xbox. most viewed E3 trailer this year! people are talking about keanu reeves, who was on the XBOX conference.
ethomaz
Banned
Fight Simulator? I’m sure aí did not hear nothing about it in any place except it was announced.
nowhat
Member
Yeah! It was most viewed! Except it doesn't even make it to top 10: https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...-from-halo-infinite-to-avengers/#2d39f52c16e9
Mass Shift
Member
Lockhart never made much sense to me but I tried to rationalize MS' strategy as a necessity to fill a low end gap that quite honestly needed to be addressed. They still have millions of people accessing LIVE on 360s. So Lockhart as an entry vehicle for newbies and casuals sounded like a decent enough carrot stick.
Okay so XCloud solves the entry level platform issue, but does nothing for the standard level. We all agree that Lockhart would have under performed and perhaps frustrated devs and core gamers alike. So the flagship platform is the only one left, so MS will naturally have to take a loss because they can't sell it at a premium.