Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Oh you want to know how much deeper the rabbit hole goes down for Yoshida? Check this out straight from the Bravely Default Artbook.
Yoshida is god.
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Bravely Default censored for western release
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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Yoshida is god.
You're really being petty right now. That's not the point of this thread and you know it.
I mean, so far BD's plot is completely meh so far, even allowing for some big twist somewhere along the line, but you know it's not the point of the discussion at all.
Don't know how to avatar quote, but at least in that picture, that's not a face of an adult. She clearly looks older compared to the BD characters if you find chibi characters to look like toddlers, but it's equally clear that she doesn't look like an adult.
As to the bolded, I live in California, I see bikinis with thongs all the time. I don't think I've ever seen anything based in reality close to what Zero's wearing.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't actually think there's anything wrong with DOD3 (preordered already). I just responded to your post because your questions about BD seemed like they mostly could apply to DOD3 too.
Well, DOD3 is an adult rated game who's story depicts sexual deviants. The 'problem' may be the point. Besides Zero is not even remotely comparable to BDs in game models.
Slightly?
The scene worked out in the end because Agnes is pure as can be thankfully. On the other hand yes, Edea's thing was probably off the deep end there. Regardless that's probably the only real pitfall in the writing unless we want to debate Hayashi's love of time loops and parallel universes
XANDER CAGE
Member
I'm just kidding (which I guess should have made clearer, because I've given TLoU plenty of flak for its writing).
But again, that's a silly fan-servicey line of plot that I don't blame the localization team for wanting to bump the ages up for. I just don't think arguing for artistic integrity really matters in regards to the character ages here.
That's fine, but that wasn't what the poster stated was the problem. It was that the characters look like children, but are sexualized, regardless of the game's ESRB rating. It's not like if you make a game rated M or AO, child porn is suddenly ok.
So again, the contradiction is that Zero also does not look "of age".
Again, like I've said, I'm not saying there's a problem with DOD3, I'm merely raising it because the poster I responded to seems harsh and judgmental about all kinds of stuff about BD, like showing of thighs, disappointment in Yoshida, etc., but I'm questioning whether he/she feels the same way about DOD3.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Context bro. Thongs and bikini's are fine.....on the beach. Who wears a thong and bikini when going into battle? Lets forget about the armour thing because not all games have to realistic but its still a ridiculous costume.
I don't think what is here applies to Zero, since she clearly looks older, and her dress goes with her character of being a nympho.
Lastly this is an M rated game.
Are you telling me zero looks like a child?
toastyToast
Member
The anticipation of seeing the bikini was a big part of the plot line as well. It was all pointlessly risqué
First of all, we have a very different understanding of adorable.
And yet, he features proportions found on little children, to me he looks like a very ugly two year old.
Look up the therm "Kindchenschema".
I understand the term and the study behind it.
However, I can see the differences. I don't see "baby" in that SD art. Or of Ryu's or Chun Li's or in Bravely Default's. I don't. I just see a cute, deformed version of them. I don't see children there because I grasp the connection between the original character and the deformed version.
To be quite honest, the fact people here go straight to "it looks like a child" freaks me the hell out.
I guess I'm the weird one.
The two fifteen year old sexual deviants sure do.
Should I mention that Five keeps a 14 year old boy on call for sex too?
Her body may not, but her face definitely does. It's round and she wears a gigantic bow on her head.
Thongs and bikinis are fine on the beach, just as Zero's costume is fine in the I dunno (bedroom?). From what I've seen though she wears that in combat, but I like that you've conveniently proposed to forget about the "armour thing because not all games have to be realistic" to explain Zero's costume's feasibility. However, when it comes to BD, it gets no quarter because somehow bikinis and thongs are held to the highest standard of realism.
Context bro.
Interceptor
Banned
Good thing they "censored" it. I like the style of the world and the promise of a good jrpg (finally) but the design of the characters pushes all the wrong buttons for me. Sexual innuendo combined with chibi style is just wrong.
HolyBaikal
Banned
Being cute is great. I wish everything and everyone were cute.
And cuteness isn't something that just applies to children. Plenty of adults and other animals are very cute.
Being cute doesn't make you any less of an adult or mature. I'm an adult, and I want to be as cute as possible.
And cuteness isn't something that just applies to children. Plenty of adults and other animals are very cute.
Being cute doesn't make you any less of an adult or mature. I'm an adult, and I want to be as cute as possible.
Interceptor
Banned
Being cute and looking like a ten year old in a sm-outfit are two different things. It would be very hard to show this game to a non-gaming female friend of mine without risking to look like a person with barely legal sexual preferences. With the japanese design it would be plain impossible.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
If you seriously think a thong and bikini has the same inappropriateness as Zero's costume then lol.
The reason I said to ignore armour is because then literally every game will look nonsensical. Theres only a couple of games that have represented fantasy armour appropriately.
I understand the term and the study behind it.
However, I can see the differences. I don't see "baby" in that SD art. Or of Ryu's or Chun Li's or in Bravely Default's. I don't. I just see a cute, deformed version of them. I don't see children there because I grasp the connection between the original character and the deformed version.
To be quite honest, the fact people here go straight to "it looks like a child" freaks me the hell out.
I guess I'm the weird one.
The two fifteen year old sexual deviants sure do.
Should I mention that Five keeps a 14 year old boy on call for sex too?
Well I certainly did not know about that because I haven't played the game >.<
No! It's okay! It's M Rated! Neither of them look like children!
I'm outta here.
XANDER CAGE
Member
To be fair, Drakengard isn't really in the same ballpark as Bravely Default. I haven't played 3 yet and probably won't, but the series (as well as Nier) uses intentionally disgusting, disturbing, and sickening imagery on purpose because it's integral to the story and tone. This argument about BD centers more on the fact that the underage sexy costumes are really only there for the sake of fanservice.
That doesn't mean Drakengard is free from any criticism, just that the debate around it should probably be "are these disturbing like incest elements properly handled in service of the story?" rather than "I think it's inappropriate for this game to talk about incest at all." Drakengard (again, the first one at least, haven't seen 3) at least presents its fucked up shit as fucked up shit.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
I really do have to question why fans would find the butt crack of a 15 year old pixelated character pleasing. Why is this fan service?
I would think fan service for this type of game would be little nods to the older FF's or something like that.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Well, like many people have come into the thread to point out, the chibi models "represent" a more realistically proportioned human.
However, at the end of the day that means the costumes are representing a more realistically proportioned fifteen year old wearing belts as underwear, which doesn't really do that defense any favors.
Femmeworth
Banned
Was Toriyama a consultant on this project? Oh wait, VN writer.
HolyBaikal
Banned
It seems like everyone looks "10 years old" to some people.:/
I've heard the same arguement for Korean rapper E.via/Tymee. That she shouldn't sexualize her body because she "looks too young". She's almost 28 years old, she has a right to do whatever she wants with her body.
Designing characters like this doesn't encourage anything other than it's okay to look a certain way, and to be attracted to that. It doesn't encourage people being attracted to children. And it doesn't give someone any sexuality.
Also, I don't think your friend being female has anything to do with anything. I hope you just mentioned that to be more complete.
XANDER CAGE
Member
That person is an actual 28 year old human being and not a canonically 15 year old video game character, so I don't think it's really appropriate to apply the same standards.
HolyBaikal
Banned
You're right, she's characterized as a 15 year old in this game.
Which makes things totally different and inappropriate. Adults shouldn't fantasize about 15 year olds.
Messofanego
Banned
...Well, ok then...
Naotaka Hayashi, writer of Chaos;Head, Steins;Gate, Robotics;Notes
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I prefer the new costumes. I find myself wondering if I can categorize this as censorship or just modifying to suit a different audience/culture. Are they the same thing and is it always bad? Especially when I prefer characters being older than 15 and prefer the new designs. Can't speak on the loss of innuendo but I feel a little bummed by it.
biggersmaller
Banned
I know you're being sarcastic, but really think about this - they are sexualized 15 y/o characters that look like toddlers.
I know people are mad that this thread was derailed, and I am part of that - so I'm going to bounce and let the other merits of the game be discussed.
...But I don't want to be cute. What's wrong with being not cute?
That was fast.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I guess it seems silly to others, my worry that people might make certain kinds of cosmetic surgery illegal, in the future.
HolyBaikal
Banned
No they don't. They don't look even remotely like toddlers.
And I don't know what I'm supposed to be sarcastic about.
Well they're still a little naked. More like 40% instead of half. But hey, it's still better than before.
These are just alternative costumes, so, I doubt she would have had to look at them either way if she didn't want to.
I really can't understand how people think looking at literal minors, dressed in ridiculously over-sexualised "clothing" using sexual innuendo and suggestion is in any way acceptable in video gaming today. For every game like Journey or The Last of Us, which are trying to bring the gaming medium out of the manbaby stone-age and present it as a mature, artistic genre for gameplay and storytelling, we have games like this, which still treat women (or in this case, young girls) as nothing more than dolls to dress up and objectify. Changing their age still doesn't hide the fact that what you see on the screen look like children in thongs. Just plain creepy on every level possible. I'm honestly shocked that many of you can defend this. I don't give a shit if you consider it censorship or differences in culture; it's just plain disgusting.
Maidenpool?
Member
You do realise it's not just the women right?
And this costume was completely cut, not even edited.
YianGaruga
Banned
I'm not defending the game or expressing any opinion about it, but reasoning that these kind of games shouldn't exist so that gaming can "grow up" doesn't make sense.
Books and movies also offer content that is of questionable taste, that doesn't make the medium as a whole immature. There are people who enjoy these games for reasons that some might not agree with, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist. There need to be more "mature" games, but that doesn't mean there have to be less that are like this.
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