dead souls
Member
Walt was never presented as a hero. That is a fundamental misreading of the show. I think I'm going back to not reading comments about Breaking Bad anymore. This show is too goddamned good to sully with such idiocy.
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Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 1 - Sundays on AMC
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Walt was never presented as a hero. That is a fundamental misreading of the show. I think I'm going back to not reading comments about Breaking Bad anymore. This show is too goddamned good to sully with such idiocy.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Exactly. Expertly put.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I've been watching The Sopranos recently. I can only imagine what the internet was like with that show.
Skyler has a very pretty face
skylerfacedefenseforce
Wasn't it pretty heroic when he threw his families safety out of the window because his ego was too big to allow him to take a job that would have supported his family well and paid his cancer bills? Wasn't it also heroic when he continued to cook a dangerous drug as purely as possible even though if he was caught it would destroy everything he holds dear?
Preeeetty heroic.
At best an antihero early on if I'm being generous
skylerfacedefenseforce
dead souls said:
Wasn't it pretty heroic when he threw his families safety out of the window because his ego was too big to allow him to take a job that would have supported his family well and paid his cancer bills? Wasn't it also heroic when he continued to cook a dangerous drug as purely as possible even though if he was caught it would destroy everything he holds dear?
Preeeetty heroic.
At best an antihero early on if I'm being generous
dead souls
Member
I wasn't as big into forums back when it was airing, but I imagine the reactions to its female characters would have been staggeringly aggravating.
This is purely subjective. Various actions of Walt had the viewers rooting for him. You basically had a guy who was staring death in the face and living life on his own terms. Take that scene there he got fed up with that jerk in the convertible BMW who was always on his cellphone earpiece and he put the squeegee on the battery to make it blow up. There was definitely a certain level of heroism in that as he did something most people would love to do but wouldn't dare because of the consequences, and it didn't seem that bad because the guy in the BMW seemingly deserved it (just an opinion, lol).
The problem is that somewhere along the way Walt pushed that whole thing too far and began hurting people who didn't deserve it.
For the first few seasons you had him going head to head with people worse than him, so he was definitely the hero and someone we could root for, until he started doing shitty stuff like letting Jane die, poisoning Brock, etc.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Sopranos internet reaction was mostly everyone being annoyed when no one got whacked in an episode.
Sentenza
Member
There may be some point of truth, but generalizing the sentiment as "woman hate" sounds like bullshit, mostly.
No one in Mad Men hates Megane or Joan. Is there record of anyone liking Joan's husband? The "war doctor"? Hardly.
And that's because we tend to sympathize with the character we are following -it doesn't really matter if hero, antihero or villain, most of the times- and his/her struggle to overcome the problems he/she faces.
So any minor character getting in the way and adding misery to an already complicated life is perceived as annoying.
People don't dislike Skyler because she's a woman (generally speaking; then again few may dislike her for that reason and many others don't dislike her at all); people dislike Skyler because she's another "cock-blocker" for Walt, and as main character in this messy, bloody show the guy has already a hard time on his own.
CrankyJay said:
but there's a reason most people have self-control mechanisms in place to prevent them from arbitrarily blowing up the cars of every annoying asshole we come in contact with: because we know it's a bad choice, a non-heroic choice if you would, and would be against the law, would put those we love at risk (as the breadwinner, being put in jail would be bad) and is generally just very stupid. There are tons of annoying people and we shouldn't go around blowing up their cars, wouldn't you agree?
Now I agree that scene was a representation of Walt finally letting his ego full and free, a man who allowed himself to be walked on and then stopped in that moment. But I think in terms of heroic actions, genuinely heroic actions, I can't think of a single one for Walt.
You're right...maybe anti-hero would be a better term for Walt. He hasn't done anything heroic...but he's done stuff people have cheered for so I guess that made him the series hero until he became a total shitbag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihero
Jesus. No one. I repeat NO ONE. Is saying that people who hate skyler hate her because they hate ALL women. This ridiculous strawman has gone on long enough.
Infinite Justice
Member
Not really a fan of Skyler especially since the Ted shit.
Funnily enough that has returned to bite her in the ass via Walt's mega trolling but i actually feel bad for her now cause that shit is going full throttle into sadistic territory.
As for walt being the hero he wasn't but his goals seemed noble enough though his methods were questionable. Plus stacked up with the other people at the time made him look better, but now he's looking worse and that nobility is harder to justify giving the main obstacle is currently out of commission.
Funnily enough that has returned to bite her in the ass via Walt's mega trolling but i actually feel bad for her now cause that shit is going full throttle into sadistic territory.
As for walt being the hero he wasn't but his goals seemed noble enough though his methods were questionable. Plus stacked up with the other people at the time made him look better, but now he's looking worse and that nobility is harder to justify giving the main obstacle is currently out of commission.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Only one. Kicking that bully in the leg for ragging on Walt Jr.
Sentenza
Member
The end of Half Measure.
He was in his most comfortable spot in a while and yet he fucked everything just to save Jesse.
I find Walt fascinating, but I guess I view shows differently than some in that I never feel like it is a requirement I root for someone to enjoy it or like the characters.
I love Walt as a character; I find him abhorrent and disgusting in pretty much every way, but he's well written (generally) and his progression makes sense (mostly). I think Walt is a wonderful character, we can all agree with that.
I went from loving him to hating him...
And I went from hating to loving Jesse...amazing how the writers turned that out.
Ambushing that kid that was making fun of flynn from behind was pretty swoon-worthy.
Sentenza
Member
Except it's essentially what that Rolling Stones article is implying.
"People don't like strong female characters.
It's only fine when a man does it.
If the character is woman we are less willing to forgive her mistakes".
and so on.
Hm, that's a close one... but even then... I don't think that's technically a 'heroic' action to fuck up some young adult. Bad example for your kid.
That said, it's the most understandable action of his deeds. It's one of the few times I could say I genuinely might have done something similar in his shoes, because I can't stand seeing anyone pick on my family.
He wasn't in a comfortable spot at all at the end of Half Measure. If you didn't realize, Gus had just finished essentially telling him there was no way out for Walt (the actions of The Fly should show you exactly where his state of mind was at; if that's the mind of a 'comfortable' person, I don't know what to tell you). Walt was terrified.
And besides, it was still not a good or heroic action. He ran over two people and shot one of them in the head. He did not want Jesse gone because he knew he needed him.
Infinite Justice
Member
Saving Jesse from those dealers is he since he basically pissed away everything he worked for and ended up on Gus's shit list
If I was someone's wife, and I found out my husband was a druglord, I would be pretty fucking pissed too. I think Skylar is handling everything like a champ, but Walt has become too much now and she's having a breakdown. Tbh, I think her actions and reactions have been very human like.
Also, damn, that apple scene after lying to Marie. So good.
Also, damn, that apple scene after lying to Marie. So good.
No, it's not at all what the RS article is implying. The RS is outright saying that when women on television step out of their traditional roles as bottled-up caretakers and tag-alongs, they tend to receive an unprecedented amount of hatred from a largely male audience willing to forgive similar behaviour in male characters (whether thorns in the side of the main character or not). They're pointing out a very specific archetype of female character that receives hatred and not at all saying that anyone hates every woman who ever lived. No one has ever said or implied that, and no amount of "but I like THIS woman" will change that.
Whether you think they're right or not, whether you think they're attacking you or not, please at least understand their actual argument.
Yeah, Skyler has been reacting pretty much how I'd expect a person in her shoes who just realized her husband is a barbaric murderer who commits what is essentially a terrorist attack in a nursing home. Horrified, shock, frozen.
Sentenza
Member
No, he didn't.
He took Jesse back as a partner just to silence him against hank, but once that was settled, there wasn't any "utilitarian" use for the kid.
Walt could have easily run that lab working with *anyone*.
Yet, he decided to save the kid from a suicidal revenge mission going against a very loud and clear order from Fring.
Which is why in the next episode he pushes Jesse to lose his soul by killing Gale. Or why a season before he allowed Jane to die, the one person Jesse truly cared about.
If the show hasn't shown you explicitly just how much Walt really cares for Jesse at this point, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. But by Half Measure/Full Measure, this was always about control and manipulation and Walt knew he needed him. Because he knew Gus' implied threat, he knew Gus was only going to need him for so long, and because anyone other than Jesse coming in to cook was someone beyond his control.
Walt needs control more than anything.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
I just don't like her character, plain in simple.
No real reason why, just seems very melodramatic.
No real reason why, just seems very melodramatic.
Sentenza
Member
Why should I, exactly? I even argued *for* Skyler in the past.
Stop thinking that whoever finds an argument about sexism weak is clearly guilty of something.
Anyway, I'm not going to argue on this topic anymore, especially with a mod.
It already costed me a very unfair moth-long ban for "denialism" in the recent past, despise all the efforts to be very polite and reasonable.
i always hated when people said 'i won't argue with you, especially since you're a mod.'
in all the time i moderated i never banned anyone in a discussion with me, except when they dropped insults. my experience with maharg was similar. maharg never bans people just for participating in a discussion
in all the time i moderated i never banned anyone in a discussion with me, except when they dropped insults. my experience with maharg was similar. maharg never bans people just for participating in a discussion
Banning people isn't my job, and I disagree with a great many people on this forum and none of them have ever suffered a ban for it.
You might note I said "whether or not". I don't actually care if you do or not. I care that you're misconstruing their argument in order to make it seem like something it's not.
You might note I said "whether or not". I don't actually care if you do or not. I care that you're misconstruing their argument in order to make it seem like something it's not.
Sentenza
Member
I never thought I would be in the spot to say it (in fact it doesn't happen in other forums I follow); but that's clearly something to take into account on GAF.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
If I remember correctly she didn't really know for sure that he has killed anybody up till that point. There's also the shock that he blew up Gus in a nursing home. Then he imposes himself on her by moving in without even conferring with her. That's a whole lot to take in.
I guess that's unfortunate you feel that way. But maharg is good people, as is Stump and Evilore and Opiate and all of them. Very good people to engage discussions with.
If you do feel worried, at least you shouldn't feel worried with maharg.
vitaminwateryum
corporate swill
Made one with text, since I haven't seen any yet:
Exporting out of PS seems to make it super slow though...
Exporting out of PS seems to make it super slow though...
Souless_PJ
Banned
Walt had no intention of having Jesse do that until he was kidnapped and had no choice. He wanted to have Jesse just get the address and do the killing himself.
Also Walt could justify that Jane's death was the only thing that saved Jesse's life and shocked him into rehab and to stop using.
MidnightCowboy
Member
The Peddlers scene last night was probably my 2nd favorite musical sequence so far, topped only by the super lab destruction.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Dunno how anyone in the world doesn't see Walt as the villain in this season. Skylar is in the shower in Psycho right now. Walt is blind evil, only growing larger and waiting for his opportune moment to strike.
This is unbelievably wrong.
I thought Walt's last line was referring to the pest control guy talking to him THE MINUTE Walt and Jesse step on the property - overstepping his boundaries - even though Mike specifically stated they should ignore them. So, I was thinking Walt could go all boxcutter on the guy to show Jesse and Mike he has gone into complete Gus-mode. After all, Mike was an employee of Gus', Gus was his superior.
Loved the episode.
A completely unrelated note that holds no value at all: Mike and Victor are both in the NATO phonetic alphabet.
Loved the episode.
A completely unrelated note that holds no value at all: Mike and Victor are both in the NATO phonetic alphabet.
CrocMother
Banned
And Skylar isn't?
I dunno, ask all the people who call her a bitch and overbearing or stifling. I think that everything people point to as a reason to hate her is something she does against Walt's wishes, and I don't think that qualifies as submissive.
Bottled up sure, but I didn't see any disdain for her character before she started piecing things together and rebelling.
spindoctor
Member
Can someone explain the last scene to me please? The one where Walt and Jesse talk about Victor. I've forgotten... who was Victor? Was it the guy whose throat Gus had slit? And if so, why? And why does Walt talk about him being like Icarus and why does it the show make this last scene seem like some poignant moment? What exactly was the implication of what Walt said?
There was. It was mostly around the fact that she was distrustful of him before she knew what was going on. People saw her as a nag.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Another problem with Skyler the past long while, is that 90% of her screen time is used as a bouncing board to show us how evil Walt is, lol. Early on in the show it wasn't the case, she had a lot of time doing other things and whatnot. But now most of the time it's not the case. Marie has been given more depth lately.
Agreed. Skyler's character has become so flat now. Probably the only downfall to this season is characters like Skyler and Hank seriously lacking in screen time. I liked how earlier in the show each character had their own story arc/set of issues that they were attributed to. The story now is practically entirely Walt focused. Even Jessie's character has taken a hit.
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