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[Domino Theory]

http://kezins.com/2008/07/e3-microsoft-press-conference-expectations-rumors/1872


This one, but I cannot find the original sourcing that was posted to gaf yet with search offline.

Hmm, makes sense. I believe it was SG who first started this rumor. Then other sites caught on and it was becoming a huge expected surprise.

And now MS probably feels that FFXIII for 360 was a big enough announcement so no reason to shed all their cards on one table. How unfortunate, though.

 

[EazyB]

I'm not going into it in this thread, but there's nothing in Halo that can't be done by another company, probably better.

Well where should we go? This discussion needs to happen. I don't see what you can like about Halo that's not a product of Bungie's work and if anyone could make a game as successful and critically acclaimed as the Halo series, then why don't we see more "Halo killers"?

 

[Sai-kun]

Well where should we go? This discussion needs to happen. I don't see what you can like about Halo that's not a product of Bungie's work and if anyone could make a game as successful and critically acclaimed as the Halo series, then why don't we see more "Halo killers"?

killzone

 

[Wizman23]

Interesting, ah yes the press leak. I believe I know which one.

I would assume Halo Blue?

 

[TDG]

So, if they really did cancel the announcement due to Halo 4 talk, that might indicate that it's not a Halo game they were going to announce D), and they may try to announce it when we aren't expecting it.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

I'm not going into it in this thread, but there's nothing in Halo that can't be done by another company, probably better.

So why haven't they?

 

[JdFoX187]

Well where should we go? This discussion needs to happen. I don't see what you can like about Halo that's not a product of Bungie's work and if anyone could make a game as successful and critically acclaimed as the Halo series, then why don't we see more "Halo killers"?

I'm not going to go OT. You want to discuss it, do it in the Halo 3 thread. I'll be more than happy to outline the problems with the game if you'd like. But it doesn't belong in this thread.

So why haven't they?

Look above.

 

[Chiggs]

So why haven't they?

It would be too easy; they strive for far more creative endeavors.

Spoiler

Vomit

 

[Deleted member 21120]

It would be too easy; they strive for far more creative endeavors.

Spoiler

Vomit

It's been a long seven years, then, with Halo on top while these other folks have been working on "more creative endeavours."

 

[oddworld18]

One thing I don't get about this whole "it was because of a press leak"

They only cancelled it at about 7pm yesterday; I would imagine that the leak would have happened then, otherwise they would have pulled the plug when the press leak first hit on Sunday or Monday or whenever.

Was there ever any truth to the whole "they were going to announce on Monday and it got pushed back"? That would make a little more sense, then... but if they got shut down because of a press leak, it would go to reason that such a press leak would have happened within an hour or two of the plug being pulled.

So... what leaked yesterday evening?

 

[soldat7]

So why haven't they?

Because they can't.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

Because they can't.

I know that.

 

[EazyB]

I'm not going to go OT. You want to discuss it, do it in the Halo 3 thread. I'll be more than happy to outline the problems with the game if you'd like. But it doesn't belong in this thread.

I totally agree that Halo 3 has its host of problems but to say you're a fan of Halo more then Bungie... that's just fucking wacky.

Now that Bungie is on their way to freedom, maybe they can make Shadowrun 2

 

[oddworld18]

Now that Bungie is on their way to freedom, maybe they can make Shadowrun 2

DAY ONE.

 

[JdFoX187]

I totally agree that Halo 3 has its host of problems but to say you're a fan of Halo more then Bungie... that's just fucking wacky.

Now that Bungie is on their way to freedom, maybe they can make Shadowrun 2

Why is it whacky? I never was a fan of Marathon, even though it had a certain charm. Oni was horrible. I never got into the Myth series. Shocking, I know, but I would say most people only know Bungie for Halo. And it'll be interesting to see whether they can shake that moniker of the developer behind Halo. The same goes for Valve and Half-Life and EPIC for Unreal Tournament.

 

[AstroLad]

Someone compared this to Watergate? lol

To be fair, I already clarified:

In terms of effect on the public at large? No.
In terms of effect on gamers? Maybe.

So let's not by overly hyperbolic--just a reasoned plea for transparency and ethical journalistic integrity. I will be listening to 1UY with open ears....

 

[Domino Theory]

One thing I don't get about this whole "it was because of a press leak"

They only cancelled it at about 7pm yesterday; I would imagine that the leak would have happened then, otherwise they would have pulled the plug when the press leak first hit on Sunday or Monday or whenever.

Was there ever any truth to the whole "they were going to announce on Monday and it got pushed back"? That would make a little more sense, then... but if they got shut down because of a press leak, it would go to reason that such a press leak would have happened within an hour or two of the plug being pulled.

So... what leaked yesterday evening?

The Halo 4 rumblings and Halo "Blue" which leaked very recently on Joystick were probably the reasons for the delay.

Maybe Microsoft wants to change their image from "if it leaks beforehand, it's true" to "if it leaks, no go! Sorry!" Mattrick has changed some of Microsoft's biggest, practical tactics.

 

[JdFoX187]

So let's not by overly hyperbolic--just a reasoned plea for transparency and ethical journalistic integrity. I will be listening to 1UY with open ears....

As a journalist myself, I have a little more insight into the industry itself. Your integrity is good and all, and it'll give you a nice pat on the back and a feel-good moment. But if you have an advertiser or source that says "don't run this" you don't fucking run it. It's the way it goes. A lot of times, it's better to serve everyone else if you some times don't touch on controversial things.

 

[Proelite]

I understand why GhaleonEB and Snack resigned from the MVP status, but I don't think their resignation is a good precedent for the long run. One of the defining positives of Microsoft at the start of this generation was the care, emphasis, and exposure given to its online fan base through its various community programs, its community representatives, and community activities. Every company makes bad decisions once in a while, but the community has been extremely vocal on this one (maybe rightfully so). They might be vocal in the hopes that Microsoft might listen to this online community, but the reality is that Microsoft might ultimately deem that having a close online community is counterproductive since the gains are offset by the losses. I cannot endorse the actions of GhaleonEB and Snack because I don't think the online community should protest against Microsoft's move in such a way. Even though Microsoft might be the ultimate assholes for canceling the announcement, I think it's worthwhile to protest in a milder manner and not ultimately make them bigger assholes. I believe that the relationship with the community benefits us more than it benefits them, since Nintendo is outselling everyone without a community program that's anywhere near Microsoft's.

 

[artredis1980]

I understand why GhaleonEB and Snack resigned from the MVP status, but I don't think their resignation is a good precedent for the long run. One of the defining positives of Microsoft at the start of this generation was the care, emphasis, and exposure given to its online fan base through its various community programs, its community representatives, and community activities. Every company makes bad decisions once in a while, but the community has been extremely vocal on this one (maybe rightfully so). They might be vocal in the hopes that Microsoft might listen to this online community, but the reality is that Microsoft might ultimately deem that having a close online community is counterproductive since the gains are offset by the losses. I cannot endorse the actions of GhaleonEB and Snack because I don't think the online community should protest against Microsoft's move in such a way.

.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

As a journalist myself, I have a little more insight into the industry itself. Your integrity is good and all, and it'll give you a nice pat on the back and a feel-good moment. But if you have an advertiser or source that says "don't run this" you don't fucking run it. It's the way it goes. A lot of times, it's better to serve everyone else if you some times don't touch on controversial things.

Yeah, it sucks, but this is the way things work. If MS doesn't want 1Up to speak out on this, it ain't happening.

 

[The Lamonster]

As a journalist myself, I have a little more insight into the industry itself. Your integrity is good and all, and it'll give you a nice pat on the back and a feel-good moment. But if you have an advertiser or source that says "don't run this" you don't fucking run it. It's the way it goes. A lot of times, it's better to serve everyone else if you some times don't touch on controversial things.

So you're a jounalist with more insight into the industry than us simple gamers, but you don't think EPIC has gotten past Unreal Tournament? What about Gears of War?

YOUR JOURNALISTIC ELITISM HAS FAILED YOU FOR THE LAST TIME

 

[Revelations]

Interesting.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Do we even know why the thing was canceled? All of this outrage seems pretty juvenile without reasoning.

 

[JdFoX187]

Yeah, it sucks, but this is the way things work. If MS doesn't want 1Up to speak out on this, it ain't happening.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. There are people talking about 1UP having integrity and run the story no matter what. It just doesn't work like that.

So you're a jounalist with more insight into the industry than us simple gamers, but you don't think EPIC has gotten past Unreal Tournament? What about Gears of War?

YOUR JOURNALISTIC ELITISM HAS FAILED YOU FOR THE LAST TIME

I'm not a game journalist. I have insight into the journalism industry as a whole, considering that's my career. And I didn't say EPIC hasn't passed Unreal Tournament. I'm saying UT is what EPIC was known for by most people. The same goes for Half-Life and Valve. Obviously, EPIC has moved on from that, even billing UT3 as "from the developer of Gears of War."

Bungie has a lot of history behind it, but most gamers know the developer specifically as the developer behind Halo. I said it would be interesting to see if they can get past that.

 

[GodfatherX]

anybody care to sum up the last 20 pages?

anything new?

or just meltdowns?

 

[Chiggs]

It's been a long seven years, then, with Halo on top while these other folks have been working on "more creative endeavours."

Well, they're just so creative and, uh, things take time and they want to make sure they get it right.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

I understand why GhaleonEB and Snack resigned from the MVP status, but I don't think their resignation is a good precedent for the long run. One of the defining positives of Microsoft at the start of this generation was the care, emphasis, and exposure given to its online fan base through its various community programs, its community representatives, and community activities. Every company makes bad decisions once in a while, but the community has been extremely vocal on this one (maybe rightfully so). They might be vocal in the hopes that Microsoft might listen to this online community, but the reality is that Microsoft might ultimately deem that having a close online community is counterproductive since the gains are offset by the losses. I cannot endorse the actions of GhaleonEB and Snack because I don't think the online community should protest against Microsoft's move in such a way.

But what would be the point of remaining in such a program if you honestly feel like MS isn't listening to you whatsoever? And, speaking personally, I wouldn't want to have any ties to a company that makes unethical decisions.

Basically, I wouldn't want to hold an "Xbox MVP Status" if I felt like Xbox's company makes unethical decisions which basically amount to them tossing aside the community to the side whenever they feel like it.

 

[Daigoro]

Jd spouting more ridiculous nonsense.

what else is new?

And it'll be interesting to see whether they can shake that moniker of the developer behind Halo. The same goes for Valve and Half-Life and EPIC for Unreal Tournament.

uh Counter-Strike?!

...

 

[Sai-kun]

Jd spouting more ridiculous nonsense.

what else is new?



uh Counter-Strike?!

...

Team Fortress...portal?

 

[JdFoX187]

Jd spouting more ridiculous nonsense.

what else is new?



uh Counter-Strike?!

...

Obviously, you didn't read my post. Which is nothing new for most people on GAF. And Counter-Strike was a mod originally. The team was eventually folded into Valve, sure. But I'm simply saying there are a lot of developers that were known for one specific game originally.

 

[joey_z]

I understand why GhaleonEB and Snack resigned from the MVP status, but I don't think their resignation is a good precedent for the long run. One of the defining positives of Microsoft at the start of this generation was the care, emphasis, and exposure given to its online fan base through its various community programs, its community representatives, and community activities. Every company makes bad decisions once in a while, but the community has been extremely vocal on this one (maybe rightfully so). They might be vocal in the hopes that Microsoft might listen to this online community, but the reality is that Microsoft might ultimately deem that having a close online community is counterproductive since the gains are offset by the losses. I cannot endorse the actions of GhaleonEB and Snack because I don't think the online community should protest against Microsoft's move in such a way. Even though Microsoft might be the ultimate assholes for canceling the announcement, I think it's worthwhile to protest in a milder manner and not ultimately make them bigger assholes. I believe that the relationship with the community benefits us more than it benefits them, since Nintendo is outselling everyone without a community program that's anywhere near Microsoft's.

Uh...I thought Ghaleon's MVP status was expired anyway.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

Uh...I thought Ghaleon's MVP status was expired anyway.

I am assuming they renewed him.

 

[Proelite]

But what would be the point of remaining in such a program if you honestly feel like MS isn't listening to you whatsoever? And, speaking personally, I wouldn't want to have any ties to a company that makes unethical decisions.

Basically, I wouldn't want to hold an "Xbox MVP Status" if I felt like Xbox's company makes unethical decisions which basically toss the community to the side whenever they feel like it.

I disagree with using the term "unethical" since I don't think it applies to the situation. I think unfortunate is a better term for it because I don't know the details.

I think that participation in the community is great for customer feedback on products but once we start to question business moves then it becomes a gray area.

 

[Pseudo judo]

But what would be the point of remaining in such a program if you honestly feel like MS isn't listening to you whatsoever? And, speaking personally, I wouldn't want to have any ties to a company that makes unethical decisions.

Basically, I wouldn't want to hold an "Xbox MVP Status" if I felt like Xbox's company makes unethical decisions which basically amount to them tossing aside the community to the side whenever they feel like it.

You've got to be kidding.

It's just a game. It will make it's debut get it's press when MS thinks it's most advantageous to their interests.

I don't visit gaf much anymore so I've forgotten how completely self important avid gamers can be.

 

[Domino Theory]

Uh...I thought Ghaleon's MVP status was expired anyway.

It expires every year, but you're asked if you want it re-instated.

You've got to be kidding.

It's just a game. It will make it's debut get it's press when MS thinks it's most advantageous to their interests.

I don't visit gaf much anymore so I've forgotten how completely self important avid gamers can be.

We all know the game will be announced no matter what in due time. That's not the point. Microsoft yanked the announcement with less than 12hrs to go. All the months of hype and excitment just shot down with the push of a button. And overall, it would've made for a kick-ass E3 announcement in general.

Then issues of Bungie's independence and journalism came up, and this is where it's come to.

 

[TDG]

You've got to be kidding.

It's just a game. It will make it's debut get it's press when MS thinks it's most advantageous to their interests.

I don't visit gaf much anymore so I've forgotten how completely self important avid gamers can be.

Did you even read the post you just replied to? Maybe it's good that you don't visit GAF much anymore.

His point was not that MS shouldn't do this or that, but that he wouldn't want to be a community representative for a company that treats their community that way.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

You've got to be kidding.

It's just a game. It will make it's debut get it's press when MS thinks it's most advantageous to their interests.

I don't visit gaf much anymore so I've forgotten how completely self important avid gamers can be.

I feel like a broken record at this point, but the point is not that it didn't get announced. The point is that a 3-month long viral campaign was ran with the purpose of hyping up Bungie's fanbase for this announcement. A timer was even placed on the site ticking off the minutes to said announcement. And (after three months) 12 hours before the announcement, MS steps in and changes their minds.

 

[urk]

 

[Daigoro]

Obviously, you didn't read my post. Which is nothing new for most people on GAF. And Counter-Strike was a mod originally. The team was eventually folded into Valve, sure. But I'm simply saying there are a lot of developers that were known for one specific game originally.

i read it, and you seemed to be saying that Valve is only known as the maker of Half Life. of course there will always be one title that devolpers will be best know for, but that didnt seem to be what you were saying at all.

also, when i said nonsense, i was referring to this:

I'm not going into it in this thread, but there's nothing in Halo that can't be done by another company, probably better.

which is poppycock.

not that the other crap youre saying isnt nonsense as well...

 

[EazyB]

Obviously, you didn't read my post. Which is nothing new for most people on GAF. And Counter-Strike was a mod originally. The team was eventually folded into Valve, sure. But I'm simply saying there are a lot of developers that were known for one specific game originally.

The only problem is that by bringing up Valve and Epic you've just presented two shining examples of how a developer can break out of their original IPs and create something just as good if not better. It doesn't really support your argument that Bungie will have a hard time making/selling a non-Halo game.

 

[Wallach]

I understand why GhaleonEB and Snack resigned from the MVP status, but I don't think their resignation is a good precedent for the long run. One of the defining positives of Microsoft at the start of this generation was the care, emphasis, and exposure given to its online fan base through its various community programs, its community representatives, and community activities. Every company makes bad decisions once in a while, but the community has been extremely vocal on this one (maybe rightfully so). They might be vocal in the hopes that Microsoft might listen to this online community, but the reality is that Microsoft might ultimately deem that having a close online community is counterproductive since the gains are offset by the losses. I cannot endorse the actions of GhaleonEB and Snack because I don't think the online community should protest against Microsoft's move in such a way. Even though Microsoft might be the ultimate assholes for canceling the announcement, I think it's worthwhile to protest in a milder manner and not ultimately make them bigger assholes.

I don't see anything wrong with what they're doing.

They're community representatives, not employees. In this instance, they're being put in a position where they are no longer comfortable in that role.

Nothing to start fires over - people are not being treated properly and there are reprecussions for that. I'm sure if they were worried about that this wouldn't have happened anyway.

 

[Karish]

I need to bring some common sense into this thread.

You guys... wake the fuck up.

I want to know what Bungie is doing just as much as the rest of you, but calling out MS and trying to convince them to change their minds is not going to do a thing, or make you feel better.

Microsoft is a company. They are paying Bungie to make this game... whatever it is. They have every right to want to announce this when they think the time is right. I don't feel bad for Bungie, their time will come... maybe they should have had better communication with MS (could be a problem on either end).

This is a product in the eyes of MS. They are going to control that product so it makes them the most money. It is clear that MS thought they had enough in their conference, and after seeing Sony and Nintendo, they did have enough.

Now they can save this announcement for a different time in the year and get you all excited about it... all over again. Hell, in the end, you might thank them for it.

 

[joey_z]

Mattrick dropping the mini bomb on a new BUngie halo game makes this whole think reek of niter office politics. The simplest explanation I can see for this is that microsoft wanted bungie to know who was in charge, and didn't want a third (second?) party dev to steal the thunder. When Bungie put the blame squarely where it should lay Mattrick seemed to say "Well that's fine, I'll just drop your secrets because I can. Fuck you guys for making us look bad for doing something dick."

Hey bungie, whatever console or computing platform you choose to make games for, I'll follow. There's no reason anyone should have to put up with this bullshit.

HAHA. Fuck. This needs to be quoted on every page just because it's so retarded. You, buddy, have no idea how companies operate :lol

 

[JdFoX187]

also, when i said nonsense, i was referring to this:

which is poppycock.

not that the other crap youre saying isnt nonsense as well...

Oh c'mon. They made an excellent FPS out of the box with great controls, a great campaign and solid multiplayer. As I said, you want me to go deeper into this, I'll do it in the Halo 3 thread. But since then, there hasn't been anything done in the Halo games that hasn't or couldn't be done in any other games by other developers.

The only problem is that by bringing up Valve and Epic you've just presented two shining examples of how a developer can break out of their original IPs and create something just as good if not better. It doesn't really support your argument that Bungie will have a hard time making/selling a non-Halo game.

Valve is known as the developer of Half-Life to most people. Team Fortress is a great game, but it doesn't have the appeal that Half-Life does. Portal wasn't even made by the core Valve team originally, the same goes for Counter-Strike. Sure, Valve bought out those teams eventually. But it wasn't Valve that originally developed them.

My point wasn't that Bungie will have a hard time. I was merely saying that like Valve and EPIC, Bungie has been known for one specific game by most people. Honestly, before 2006, people think EPIC, they think Gears of War. Even today, most people think Valve, they think Half-Life.

Obviously, EPIC broke out of that mold with Gears of War. Valve is still mainly known for Half-Life. I was mainly thinking can Bungie make a new IP that will have the broad appeal of Halo or not? In other words, can they do like EPIC and make a game that has no similarities to their previous games and it still be insanely popular? I'm a gaming afficianado, I know all about Bungie's history. As do most people on here. Go outside the main gaming community, most people don't.

 

[Proelite]

I don't see anything wrong with what they're doing.

They're community representatives, not employees. In this instance, they're being put in a position where they are no longer comfortable in that role.

Nothing to start fires over - people are not being treated properly and there are reprecussions for that. I'm sure if they were worried about that this wouldn't have happened anyway.

I understand. But Snack and GhaleonEB are XBOX representatives and not BUNGIE representatives. I understand they're disappointed but I think it's hardly a case of righteous outrage that the publisher decided to pull an announcement (in which they have every right to if they wanted) and save it for when they felt it was a better time. I understand a ton of time and effort went into this announcement but unfortunate events and worse events like the Too Human fiasco happen all the time. I would definitely do the same thing GhaleonEb and snack did if Microsoft decided to discontinue the Xbox 360 or fuck up Halo 4, but since this is not of that nature, I recommend GhaleonEB and Snack to keep their usual objectivity.

 

[t4ng0]

No it isn't!

 

[Sai-kun]

HAHA. Fuck. This needs to be quoted on every page just because it's so retarded. You, buddy, have no idea how companies operate :lol

Hey you're that troll.

 

[Wallach]

I understand. But Snack an GhaleonEB are XBOX representatives and not BUNGIE representatives. I understand they're disappointed but I think it's hardly a case of outrage that the publisher decided to pull an announcement (in which they have every right to if they wanted) and save it for when they felt it was a better time. I understand a ton of time and effort went into this announcement but unfortunate events and worse events like the Too Human fiasco happen all the time. I would definitely do the same thing GhaleonEb and snack did if Microsoft decided to discontinue the Xbox 360 or cancel Halo 4, but since this is not of that nature, I recommend GhaleonEB and Snack to keep their usual objectivity.

I think it depends on how you look at it.

They're representatives for the community, not the company; a more focused role than the average consumer but in the end they are there to serve the community and not Microsoft. It was a two-way street, with the intention of being beneficial for both parties.

I imagine the feeling is that this is an action that is beneficial to only one party, and detrimental to both the community and the developer. If there is information to the contrary, and these representatives don't have it, then that isn't their fault.

I agree with their decision on this one. There's not any "nerdrage" on my behalf; like I mentioned, I don't get a lot of use out of any of my consoles, mostly PC and handhelds. I honestly was not even paying much attention to this announcement, and have not been a huge fan of thier past games. What I am very much a fan of however is Bungie's attitude toward the community they are involved with. It's very disappointing to see them have to work with people that don't see eye to eye with them on that, and have something like this happen.

 

[Walshicus]

HAHA. Fuck. This needs to be quoted on every page just because it's so retarded. You, buddy, have no idea how companies operate :lol

I work for a major multinational, and that's almost exactly how office politics work...