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[Foxbat]

The truth of the matter is that there's an element of luck involved in the "value" of exclusives; Everyone starts out intending to make a winner, but some inevitably under-perform critically or at retail, whereas others do as well or better than expected. The PS4 has, by and large, been incredibly fortunate with this.

So to say that its just a matter of there being exclusives to help PS4's performance is missing the important bit, the quality of them has been unusually high on the whole. This isn't an easy thing to replicate.

It may be easier to replicate than you might think. Sony has seemingly replicated it several times over. Hence the memes that all Sony games are the same, or the phrase "movie games".

I do agree that the quality of them has been high. Higher than MS's output this gen overall. Sony's first party output is VERY well polished with good story telling and graphics. Anyone who debates that is a console warrior of the first order.

However, there's no secret ingredient, magical spell, or really luck to why their games are so well recieved. Those types of games scratch a very particular itch that most other games can't, hence they become media darlings. But to think that the quality can't be replicated is a bit misguided I think because it has been done many, many times.

 

[ethomaz]

Right... But do you have a source? I mean, te picture is cute and all, but that's not a source. If you're claiming it is, well... My point stands.

The last confirmed numbers had the 360 still ahead by a small margin. That's including shipped numbers from Sony on the PS3, and not sold through.

Are you really real? C'mon... the picture itself has the source... EEDAR (NPD Group)... I posted 3 times here and it got ignored because it didn't support your bias.

It was a slide presented at GDC 2017 (took me 5 seconds to find on google).

https://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2017/Presentations/Zatkin_Geoffrey_Awesome.pdf

There is the graph up for December 2016 if you wish too (I did not use it because it has iPhone with 450m on the graph that makes consoles a small bar).

So your claim is bullshit since beginning because the last confirmed numbers did not have 360 ahead for years already... just because you didn't bother to research on google doesn't mean it is false lol you need to accept you have no ideia what were you talking about... make claims against real evidences is really ridiculous.

 

[Clear]

It may be easier to replicate than you might think. Sony has seemingly replicated it several times over. Hence the memes that all Sony games are the same, or the phrase "movie games".

I do agree that the quality of them has been high. Higher than MS's output this gen overall. Sony's first party output is VERY well polished with good story telling and graphics. Anyone who debates that is a console warrior of the first order.

However, there's no secret ingredient, magical spell, or really luck to why their games are so well recieved. Those types of games scratch a very particular itch that most other games can't, hence they become media darlings. But to think that the quality can't be replicated is a bit misguided I think because it has been done many, many times.

I meant much more broadly than just PS4's first-party tentpoles. I'm also talking about some of the smaller "gets" as well, titles like Nioh, or Nier Automata which both performed way better than expected. These are the things that keeps the pot bubbling nicely between the big stuff coming out. Bloodborne is another that kind of fits in that category in that although obviously it wasn't a huge hit like an Uncharted, God Of War, or Spidey, it drew attention and sustained interest.

The early years of the PS3 are a great example of the flip-side in that during that period very little seemed to go right for Sony regarding third-party exclusives. Factor 5 and Free Radical had solid pedigrees but ended up putting out flops like Lair and Haze. It took them years to get their shit together, and even then there was seemingly as many misses as hits.

I honestly believe that the streak PS4 has had is an unusual conflux of good planning and good luck.

Continuing it is a tricky proposition though; look at what happened with Xbox: Yes, Halo, Gears, Forza, and Fable seemed like a great backbone at the peak of the 360 era, but after leaning hard on them for years, and most of the rest falling by the wayside or failing to really break out, they have ended up in a weakened position and have had to take radical steps to redress the issue.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Physical + digital.

PS4

• Grand Theft Auto V
• Call of Duty: WWII
• Call of Duty Black Ops III
• Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare
• NBA 2k18
• Battlefield 1
• God of War
• Star Wars Battlefront
• Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare
• Nba 2k17

Xbox One

• Grand Theft Auto V
• Call of Duty: WWII
• Call of Duty Black Ops III
• Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare
• Battlefield 1
• Star Wars Battlefront
• Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare
• Halo 5: Guardians
• Destiny 2
• Fallout 4

Add probably fornite and pugb with that list as most played games most likely.

All MS has to do is release a cheaper box with better hardware ( for pr reasons ) that does stuff more pro consumer and they win it. Exclusives are nice to feed some core gamers on the platform and get early sales going, but hardly the reason why people buy these consoles at the end.

Xbox one tanked simple, because its more expensive, later released, less performance, total shit PR.

Exclusives honestly aren't that important as people make it out to be. Also sales for those exclusives can be heavily manipulated by given the games away for free like they did with spiderman bundle at black friday.

"shit my sales aren't high, nobody is talking about it" well lets give free copy's of witcher 3 away with every 970 sold". easy 2 million sales.

Or lets boost uncharted sales, lets release a uncharted bundle with same price as the normal bundle. Yea which one would people buy? obviously the one with a game even if they didn't care for it.

In PR land "uncharted broke records". Yea obviously but they are all still playing gta 5 and there shooters. Because that's why they bought that box.

This argument is so massively WRONG. Exclusives is what differentiates one console from the other. Without them, there is no reason to buy a console system, aside PRICE.

Multiplatform games will never sell less than exclusives. It's dumb to state otherwise. But it's equally clueless factoring the exclusive sales individually when they have to be ADDED UP to the total figures. This is the reason why Amazon appeared in the market, it's the LONG TAIL theory. Amazon didn't grow selling best-sellers, but niche books that you could not buy elsewhere. Likewise, Playstation offers games that you cannot play on other systems, what brings MANY DIFFERENT CROWDS to their ecosystem. It's not one person that buys all exclusive titles. Most people only buy one or two. So then, you have to think of people buying a PS4 for Bloodborne, others for Uncharted and others for Driveclub.

In addition, it's the only system with VR. So Sony has more reasons to appeal to a wider audience.


Using your argument , how do you explain the huge gap between Playstation and XBOX? If games are the same and power is pretty much the same too, where is the gap? In the exclusives. There it is.

 

[Foxbat]

Are you really real? C'mon... the picture itself has the source... EEDAR (NPD Group)... I posted 3 times here and it got ignored because it didn't support your bias.

It was a slide presented at GDC 2017 (took me 5 seconds to find on google).

https://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2017/Presentations/Zatkin_Geoffrey_Awesome.pdf

There is the graph up for December 2016 if you wish too (I did not use it because it has iPhone with 450m on the graph that makes consoles a small bar).

So your claim is bullshit since beginning because the last confirmed numbers did not have 360 ahead for years already... just because you didn't bother to research on google doesn't mean it is false lol you need to accept you have no ideia what were you talking about... make claims against real evidences is really ridiculous.

No, it got ignored because it was a guesstimate. NPD doesn't even cover worldwide sales, and the pretty graphs in your links don't provide specific numbers likely because of it. There's no grand scheme here to ignore your "real evidences". It's just that you haven't provided a hard source for your claim.

You can't really say my "claim" is bullshit, because I'm not the one who claimed sold numbers in this thread. You also claim I didn't "research on google". I did. The first thing that comes up is Wikipedia. While Wikipedia itself my not be reliable, it does have citations. A quick peek through the citations and references can provide acuurate info. It's really not that hard. The last reported numbers by both companies still had the 360 ahead. They were pretty much dead even actually, but the PS3 figures included all shipped numbers as well.

So I'll just close this out with this. You can't make a claim, find some graph on google from a third party guess, and post that as proof. The last hard factual numbers had the 360 ahead at the end of its lifespan. If you don't like that fact, that's on you. You can parade around whatever bullshit you like on here. Just don't get all pissy with me because I call you out on it.

Have a nice day!

 

[Foxbat]

I meant much more broadly than just PS4's first-party tentpoles. I'm also talking about some of the smaller "gets" as well, titles like Nioh, or Nier Automata which both performed way better than expected. These are the things that keeps the pot bubbling nicely between the big stuff coming out. Bloodborne is another that kind of fits in that category in that although obviously it wasn't a huge hit like an Uncharted, God Of War, or Spidey, it drew attention and sustained interest.

The early years of the PS3 are a great example of the flip-side in that during that period very little seemed to go right for Sony regarding third-party exclusives. Factor 5 and Free Radical had solid pedigrees but ended up putting out flops like Lair and Haze. It took them years to get their shit together, and even then there was seemingly as many misses as hits.

I honestly believe that the streak PS4 has had is an unusual conflux of good planning and good luck.

Continuing it is a tricky proposition though; look at what happened with Xbox: Yes, Halo, Gears, Forza, and Fable seemed like a great backbone at the peak of the 360 era, but after leaning hard on them for years, and most of the rest falling by the wayside or failing to really break out, they have ended up in a weakened position and have had to take radical steps to redress the issue.

I can agree with you there, but there are comparable games like you mention for the XB1 as well. Elite Dangerous, Ark, and Pubg come to mind. As far as Bloodborne, it's a Souls game. It was recieved about as well as a Souls game, and it sold about as well as a Souls game last I checked.

I can go along with the planning and luck part I suppose though, and continuing it will certainly be tricky. While I believe Sony's first party games to be good, they all seem to be in the same funnel of sorts. I won't sit here and tell you that they're all the same, because they're not... But they do seem to be headed that way, and seem to share more and more similarities, and less and less diversity.

Leaning on franchises comes with it's own risks. MS leaned too heavily on both Halo and Gears. The trick is to evolve them without alienating the fanbase. God of War seems to have done a good job of that. We'll just have to see if either Halo or Gears can pull off the same trick as well.

 

[ethomaz]

No, it got ignored because it was a guesstimate. NPD doesn't even cover worldwide sales, and the pretty graphs in your links don't provide specific numbers likely because of it. There's no grand scheme here to ignore your "real evidences". It's just that you haven't provided a hard source for your claim.

You can't really say my "claim" is bullshit, because I'm not the one who claimed sold numbers in this thread. You also claim I didn't "research on google". I did. The first thing that comes up is Wikipedia. While Wikipedia itself my not be reliable, it does have citations. A quick peek through the citations and references can provide acuurate info. It's really not that hard. The last reported numbers by both companies still had the 360 ahead. They were pretty much dead even actually, but the PS3 figures included all shipped numbers as well.

So I'll just close this out with this. You can't make a claim, find some graph on google from a third party guess, and post that as proof. The last hard factual numbers had the 360 ahead at the end of its lifespan. If you don't like that fact, that's on you. You can parade around whatever bullshit you like on here. Just don't get all pissy with me because I call you out on it.

Have a nice day!

My God... what shit are you talking about.

EEDAR is worldwide and that is why NPD Group bought them.

Founded in 2006 by video game industry veterans, EEDAR is the largest specialty video game research firm in the world. Leveraging a proprietary database of over 100 million internally researched data points from more than 100,000 physical and digital video game products, EEDAR is the sole provider of end-to-end integrated data analysis solutions that allow for the examination of every factor influencing the success of past, present, and future video game titles. EEDAR is based in Carlsbad, California and has been recognized by Forbes Magazine as one of America's Most Promising Companies and also holds the Guinness world record for the largest collection of videogame facts and information.

You should eat the crow because you are wrong since beginning with your baseless claims.
But now you are actually fighting actual data because the bias?

And about the googe lol seach "eedar platform sales worldwide" it is the first result.

If you don't believe in EEDAR data then you don't believe NPD Group data because they use the same base.

Your blind bias is ridiculous... why don't you ask Mat if EEDAR is accurate? lol

Third-party guess? lol

Truth hurts

 

[Foxbat]

This argument is so massively WRONG. Exclusives is what differentiates one console from the other. Without them, there is no reason to buy a console system, aside PRICE.

Multiplatform games will never sell less than exclusives. It's dumb to state otherwise. But it's equally clueless factoring the exclusive sales individually when they have to be ADDED UP to the total figures. This is the reason why Amazon appeared in the market, it's the LONG TAIL theory. Amazon didn't grow selling best-sellers, but niche books that you could not buy elsewhere. Likewise, Playstation offers games that you cannot play on other systems, what brings MANY DIFFERENT CROWDS to their ecosystem. It's not one person that buys all exclusive titles. Most people only buy one or two. So then, you have to think of people buying a PS4 for Bloodborne, others for Uncharted and others for Driveclub.

In addition, it's the only system with VR. So Sony has more reasons to appeal to a wider audience.


Using your argument , how do you explain the huge gap between Playstation and XBOX? If games are the same and power is pretty much the same too, where is the gap? In the exclusives. There it is.

Yeah his argument doesn't really hold up all that well, but your emphasis on exclusives really doesn't either.

Exclusives are part of the equation. The ecosystem, service, where your friends play, perception, exclusives, power, momentum, etc... They all play a part. Your zeroing in on exclusives doesn't do the other factors justice. The PS4 was outselling the XB1 before it had all those compelling exclusives, and PSVR.

 

[Foxbat]

My God... what shit are you talking about.

EEDAR is worldwide and that is why NPD Group bought them.


You should eat the crow because you are wrong since beginning with your baseless claims.
But now you are actually fighting actual data because the bias?

And about the googe lol seach "eedar platform sales worldwide" it is the first result.

If you don't believe in EEDAR data then you don't believe NPD Group data because they use the same base.

Your blind bias is ridiculous... why don't you ask Mat if EEDAR is accurate? lol

Third-party guess? lol

Truth hurts

Last confirmed 360 sales numbers from MS was 84 million.

Last confirmed PS3 sales numbers combined from Sony was 83 million.

We have no confirmed numbers beyond those.

EEDAR is a third party.

Their numbers are estimates and are stated as much. Do you know what estimate is?

Truth hurts indeed.

 

[ethomaz]

Last confirmed 360 sales numbers from MS was 84 million.

Last confirmed PS3 sales numbers combined from Sony was 83 million.

We have no confirmed numbers beyond those.

EEDAR is a third party.

Their numbers are estimates and are stated as much. Do you know what estimate is?

Truth hurts indeed.

 

[Gavon West]

LOL!

 

[DForce]

kjljkljkj

Physical + digital.

PS4

• Grand Theft Auto V
• Call of Duty: WWII
• Call of Duty Black Ops III
• Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare
• NBA 2k18
• Battlefield 1
• God of War
• Star Wars Battlefront
• Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare
• Nba 2k17

Xbox One

• Grand Theft Auto V
• Call of Duty: WWII
• Call of Duty Black Ops III
• Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare
• Battlefield 1
• Star Wars Battlefront
• Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare
• Halo 5: Guardians
• Destiny 2
• Fallout 4

Add probably fornite and pugb with that list as most played games most likely.

All MS has to do is release a cheaper box with better hardware ( for pr reasons ) that does stuff more pro consumer and they win it. Exclusives are nice to feed some core gamers on the platform and get early sales going, but hardly the reason why people buy these consoles at the end.

Xbox one tanked simple, because its more expensive, later released, less performance, total shit PR.

Exclusives honestly aren't that important as people make it out to be. Also sales for those exclusives can be heavily manipulated by given the games away for free like they did with spiderman bundle at black friday.

"shit my sales aren't high, nobody is talking about it" well lets give free copy's of witcher 3 away with every 970 sold". easy 2 million sales.

Or lets boost uncharted sales, lets release a uncharted bundle with same price as the normal bundle. Yea which one would people buy? obviously the one with a game even if they didn't care for it.

In PR land "uncharted broke records". Yea obviously but they are all still playing gta 5 and there shooters. Because that's why they bought that box.

Here's what you didn't bother posting.

1. You posted US charts only.
2. It's been reported that Uncharted 4 would be on the list if bundles were counted.
3. Spider-Man was reportedly going to make the list the following month
4. Killzone ShadowFall sold around 2 million copies shortly after the game released when the console sold just over 5 million units. Infamous Second Son sold 1 million in just over a week.

Exclusives are important and I don't know why people try so hard to downplay it.

If both consoles are $199 and have GTA5, then they're often going to look at exclusives. You guys think, "Both are $199, so I'm just going to randomly pick a console."

God of War + Grand Theft Auto + Fortnite + Call of Duty is more attractive to games than Sea of Thieves + Grand Theft Auto + Fortnite + Call of Duty

 

[mckmas8808]

kjljkljkj



Here's what you didn't bother posting.

1. You posted US charts only.
2. It's been reported that Uncharted 4 would be on the list if bundles were counted.
3. Spider-Man was reportedly going to make the list the following month
4. Killzone ShadowFall sold around 2 million copies shortly after the game released when the console sold just over 5 million units. Infamous Second Son sold 1 million in just over a week.

Exclusives are important and I don't know why people try so hard to downplay it.

If both consoles are $199 and have GTA5, then they're often going to look at exclusives. You guys think, "Both are $199, so I'm just going to randomly pick a console."

God of War + Grand Theft Auto + Fortnite + Call of Duty is more attractive to games than Sea of Thieves + Grand Theft Auto + Fortnite + Call of Duty

It's sad that people can't just acknowledge this.

 

[Journey]

LOL! Xbone at the level of PS3? PS3 was pretty much neck to neck with 360 at the end of the gen. Xbone is doing half as well as the PS3 was doing in retrospect to their competitor.

Garbage analysis.

Not defending the analysis, but when you measure where Xbox was and where MS ended with 360, you can't deny the amazing gains. PS2 was a beast, Xbox was laughable at best. If tables are turned once again at the same rate, but from the new starting point for the Xbox brand, you can start to see the point.

 

[mckmas8808]

Not defending the analysis, but when you measure where Xbox was and where MS ended with 360, you can't deny the amazing gains. PS2 was a beast, Xbox was laughable at best. If tables are turned once again at the same rate, but from the new starting point for the Xbox brand, you can start to see the point.

But wouldn't they need for Sony to make a major mistake of the likes of a $600 console for that to happen next gen?

 

[Journey]

But wouldn't they need for Sony to make a major mistake of the likes of a $600 console for that to happen next gen?

It's hard to say what mistakes will be made, hind sight is 20/20. I remember when the iPhone was announced and people were all used to paying $50 for a cell phone, $200 sounded like it would be dead in the water, and look at where we are now.

I don't think the PS3 priced at $600 dollars was the only issue, gamers look at value more than the price, and the Cell processor wasn't delivering on its promises; the blu-ray drive wasn't delivering anything extra over what 360 was achieving with DVD in terms of games, in fact games had better load times on 360 and were winning most head to heads, so it wasn't the extra $100 price tag, but the value of what you're getting for that extra $100 bucks, a hard sell when your multiplats are actually doing worse. I think most people are willing to pay a little extra if it's worth it; people were certain that Xbox One X wouldn't do well priced at $500 and look how well it's selling. That's not to say a $600 dollar console is a good idea, but maybe $500 will be the sweet spot just as $400 was at the beginning of this gen, but as usual, it will ultimately be about value.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I can agree with you there, but there are comparable games like you mention for the XB1 as well. Elite Dangerous, Ark, and Pubg come to mind. As far as Bloodborne, it's a Souls game. It was recieved about as well as a Souls game, and it sold about as well as a Souls game last I checked.

I can go along with the planning and luck part I suppose though, and continuing it will certainly be tricky. While I believe Sony's first party games to be good, they all seem to be in the same funnel of sorts. I won't sit here and tell you that they're all the same, because they're not... But they do seem to be headed that way, and seem to share more and more similarities, and less and less diversity.

Leaning on franchises comes with it's own risks. MS leaned too heavily on both Halo and Gears. The trick is to evolve them without alienating the fanbase. God of War seems to have done a good job of that. We'll just have to see if either Halo or Gears can pull off the same trick as well.

My claim is that whereas the average user of every system is pretty much the same (the one playing multiplayer games like Fortnite , GTA, FIFA or COD) the difference-makers are the ones that play more diverse games, which tend to be exclusive games, either first or third party. That doesn't reflect properly on the sales charts.

Even if exclusives were a secondary factor for most customers, at equal conditions between 2 systems, the one with most appealing exclusives would win.

Halo is the prime example of exclusive killer-app. One of the most influential games in history but it has somehow deviated from what made it so great and that has impacted XBOX badly. Rather than power, ray-tracing or whatever silly stuff they are bragging about nowadays, if they made a Halo at the same level as the original, that would put them in the best position possible.

 

[Foxbat]

My claim is that whereas the average user of every system is pretty much the same (the one playing multiplayer games like Fortnite , GTA, FIFA or COD) the difference-makers are the ones that play more diverse games, which tend to be exclusive games, either first or third party. That doesn't reflect properly on the sales charts.

Even if exclusives were a secondary factor for most customers, at equal conditions between 2 systems, the one with most appealing exclusives would win.

Halo is the prime example of exclusive killer-app. One of the most influential games in history but it has somehow deviated from what made it so great and that has impacted XBOX badly. Rather than power, ray-tracing or whatever silly stuff they are bragging about nowadays, if they made a Halo at the same level as the original, that would put them in the best position possible.

And my claim is that where friends play, services, features, cost, power, controller, etc... play just as important a role as exclusives. It's a combination of factors.

Even if friends was a secondary factor for most customers, at equal conditions between two systems, the one where all your friends played would win.

See how that works? You can interchange any of those variables and the phrase still rings true.

Uncharted is also a good example of a killer app. A very influential game that has somehow deviated from what made it so great, and it's impacted Playstation badly. Rather than ray-tracing, fp16, psvr, or whatever silly stuff they are bragging about nowadays, if they made an Uncharted at the same level as the original, that would put them in the best position possible.

See? There it goes again. Both UC4 and Halo 5 sold well. So I guess Halo really isn't a prime example.

 

[tr1p1ex]

MS is "motivating" web journalists to write these articles. They did it on Engadget and now here and a few other places.

I bet bottom dollar MS is behind all these articles in one way or another.

Next-gen is anyone's game. Until we know the device and the price and the games and how good they are then it's anyone's game.

I do think Sony has a built-in advantage next-gen because I think the consoles are going to change the least ever. And we'll have b/c and UI that remains the same for the most part. And controllers might even be b/c.

Also despite Sony's mistakes with the PS3, they won that generation worldwide.

This doesn't mean MS isn't taking steps to do better. They bought a bunch of studios. That will at least result in more exclusives for them. Whether or not they will be good is another thing.

 

[mckmas8808]

And my claim is that where friends play, services, features, cost, power, controller, etc... play just as important a role as exclusives. It's a combination of factors.

Even if friends was a secondary factor for most customers, at equal conditions between two systems, the one where all your friends played would win.

See how that works? You can interchange any of those variables and the phrase still rings true.

Uncharted is also a good example of a killer app. A very influential game that has somehow deviated from what made it so great, and it's impacted Playstation badly. Rather than ray-tracing, fp16, psvr, or whatever silly stuff they are bragging about nowadays, if they made an Uncharted at the same level as the original, that would put them in the best position possible.

See? There it goes again. Both UC4 and Halo 5 sold well. So I guess Halo really isn't a prime example.

Well.....to be fair most people don't believe Uncharted actually dropped off at all, whereas the average person does believe Halo 5 didn't live up to expectations.

 

[Afro Republican]

If you at least read few posts before...

PS3 > 360 is a confirmed fact with reliable sources.

Ohhhh it is December 2015 data to you not cry about 360 stooping to sell after summer 2014.

The data is an estimate it's not from reliably sources outside NPD and UK. The fact the 360 is still around the same sales as 2014 should tip that off.

 

[ethomaz]

The data is an estimate it's not from reliably sources outside NPD and UK. The fact the 360 is still around the same sales as 2014 should tip that off.

It is reliable... it is from NPD Group.

If you wish ask Mat is it is reliable or not lol

You you don't believe that graph then you don't believe NPD, GFK, Famitsu, Media Create, etc...

That is getting ridiculous already... you believe in your bias instead actual tracking sources.

BTW I can show it changed from 2014... yes there is the 2014 graph.

 

[Afro Republican]

It is reliable... it is from NPD Group.

If you wish ask Mat is it is reliable or not lol

You you don't believe that graph then you don't believe NPD, GFK, Famitsu, Media Create, etc...

That is getting ridiculous already... you believe in your bias instead actual tracking sources.

BTW I can show it changed from 2014... yes there is the 2014 graph.

It is not.

EEDAR estimates ROTW sales, they do NOT have them outside NPD and GFK.

The graph has the 360 at the exact sales it had in 2014, so unless the 360 stopped selling it's wrong, not sure why you keep trying to waive this way, that's a big flaw. If the 2014 is a lower number than this it contradicts Microsofts announcement in summer of 2014, meaning that even more of the chart is an estimate then originally expected.

 

[mckmas8808]

It is reliable... it is from NPD Group.

If you wish ask Mat is it is reliable or not lol

You you don't believe that graph then you don't believe NPD, GFK, Famitsu, Media Create, etc...

That is getting ridiculous already... you believe in your bias instead actual tracking sources.

BTW I can show it changed from 2014... yes there is the 2014 graph.

Could you please show him\us the change from 2014 in graph form? Thanks.

 

[Three]

I still don't understand how anyone finds it hard to believe that PS3 outsold xbox 360 in the end. The PS3 sold more worldwide every year. Launch aligned it was selling faster than 360. Then kinect happened and it got a boost but it was a shortlived fad of a boost. The PS3 was performing better than the 360 throughout. The 360 released a year earlier and PS3 outsold it from launch worldwide until it caught up. Why do people discredit reliable tracker sources just to wave their hand and say 'but we don't know for certain'. OK, we don't, but why try and discredit the best estimates or trackers completely and pretend it's what YOU say it is?

 

[Klayzer]

I still don't understand how anyone finds it hard to believe that PS3 outsold xbox 360 in the end. The PS3 sold more worldwide every year. Launch aligned it was selling faster than 360. Then kinect happened and it got a boost but it was a shortlived fad of a boost. The PS3 was performing better than the 360 throughout. The 360 released a year earlier and PS3 outsold it from launch worldwide until it caught up. Why do people discredit reliable tracker sources just to wave their hand and say 'but we don't know for certain'. OK, we don't, but why try and discredit the best estimates or trackers completely and pretend it's what YOU say it is?

I don't get it either. The 360 was still a great console even if did have less sales than the ps3.

 

[ethomaz]

Could you please show him\us the change from 2014 in graph form? Thanks.

For him? Nope.
For you? Of course.

EEDAR Through December, 2013
127px = 100m
X360 = 101px = 79.53m

EEDAR Through December, 2014
98px = 100m
X360 = 82px = 83.67m

EEDAR Through December, 2015
210px = 100m
X360 = 178px = 84.76m

Pictures and PDF to anybody that wants to check and pixel count

http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vaul...ons/833796_GeoffreyZatkin_AwesomeVideo_EN.pdf
http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2015/presentations/Awesome Video Game Data 2015.pdf
https://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2016/Presentations/Zatkin_Geoffrey_Awesome_Video_Game.pdf

It is not.

EEDAR estimates ROTW sales, they do NOT have them outside NPD and GFK.

The graph has the 360 at the exact sales it had in 2014, so unless the 360 stopped selling it's wrong, not sure why you keep trying to waive this way, that's a big flaw. If the 2014 is a lower number than this it contradicts Microsofts announcement in summer of 2014, meaning that even more of the chart is an estimate then originally expected.

Another lie... are you not ashamed?

Even from Dec 2014 to Dec 2015 it increase a bit over 1 million units... Dec 2013 to Dec 2014? A bit over 4 million.

 

[DeepEnigma]

For him? Nope.
For you? Of course.

EEDAR Through December, 2013
127px = 100m
X360 = 101px = 79.53m

EEDAR Through December, 2014
98px = 100m
X360 = 82px = 83.67m

EEDAR Through December, 2015
210px = 100m
X360 = 178px = 84.76m

Pictures and PDF to anybody that wants to check and pixel count

http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vaul...ons/833796_GeoffreyZatkin_AwesomeVideo_EN.pdf
http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2015/presentations/Awesome Video Game Data 2015.pdf
https://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2016/Presentations/Zatkin_Geoffrey_Awesome_Video_Game.pdf


Another lie... are you not ashamed?

Even from Dec 2014 to Dec 2015 it increase a bit over 1 million units... Dec 2013 to Dec 2014? A bit over 4 million.

He even has to spread it to others, smh.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/swit...-launch-aligned.1471759/page-2#post-253758423

 

[Klayzer]

For him? Nope.
For you? Of course.

EEDAR Through December, 2013
127px = 100m
X360 = 101px = 79.53m

EEDAR Through December, 2014
98px = 100m
X360 = 82px = 83.67m

EEDAR Through December, 2015
210px = 100m
X360 = 178px = 84.76m

Pictures and PDF to anybody that wants to check and pixel count

http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vaul...ons/833796_GeoffreyZatkin_AwesomeVideo_EN.pdf
http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2015/presentations/Awesome Video Game Data 2015.pdf
https://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2016/Presentations/Zatkin_Geoffrey_Awesome_Video_Game.pdf


Another lie... are you not ashamed?

Even from Dec 2014 to Dec 2015 it increase a bit over 1 million units... Dec 2013 to Dec 2014? A bit over 4 million.

Afro please stop. Etho is utterly destroying your "facts".

 

[FStubbs]

Nice graphs but they miss the key point, so let me repeat.

Exclusives do not matter.
Power does not matter.
Who is in charge does not matter.

As long as Microsoft has no brand awareness outside of English speaking countries they will not beat Sony.

In fact, Sony has been involved in 5 console generations and was on the winning side in 4 of them and as much as they tried to screw up came in 2nd in the other. Even if you argue they came in third in Gen 7, that means it took Microsoft doing almost everything right and Sony doing almost everything wrong for Microsoft to barely "win".

 

[Afro Republican]

EEDAR Through December, 2014
98px = 100m
X360 = 82px = 83.67m


Another lie... are you not ashamed?

Even from Dec 2014 to Dec 2015 it increase a bit over 1 million units... Dec 2013 to Dec 2014? A bit over 4 million.

Literally says on the EEDAR main site that several countries are estimates.

You posting a bunch of charts doesn't prove anything either. The only reason why your posts got likes is because the users that liked your posts saw charts posted but weren't smart enough to actually know what the charts were about.

How can the Xbox One have been at 83 by December 2014 when Xbox was at 84 million in August that year?

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/e...ox-360-sales-rise-to-84-million/1100-6420231/

And what's worse is that you have the 260 at 84 in 2015. Which means EEDAR basically stopped tracking most Xbox sales and basically acted like the 360 sold nothing after 2014.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. All your numbers are wrong.

 

[Afro Republican]

He even has to spread it to others, smh.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/swit...-launch-aligned.1471759/page-2#post-253758423

Afro please stop. Etho is utterly destroying your "facts".

Amazing how many stupid people are on this forum that just like charts without knowing what's in them.

Read my above post and learn to get educated.

 

[ethomaz]

Literally says on the EEDAR main site that several countries are estimates.

NPD, GFK, Famitsu, Media Create, etc.

How can the Xbox One have been at 83 by December 2014 when Xbox was at 84 million in August that year?

Do you know the difference between shipment and sold-though?

BTW that "over 84m shipped" was at E3 in June... not August... 360 was at 83.7m shipped in March 2014 and MS stopped to give 360 figures after that.

The opposite of what you wrote the MS "84m" pretty much match with EEDAR data but that is no surprise.

And what's worse is that you have the 260 at 84 in 2015. Which means EEDAR basically stopped tracking most Xbox sales and basically acted like the 360 sold nothing after 2014.

It is clear show 1m+ sold between Dec 2014 and Dec 2015.

Keep eating crow.

 

[Afro Republican]

Do you know the difference between shipment and sold-though?

The 84 million wasn't shipped. But I'd figured you'd try to spin it that way. Even though it doesn't make sense since you EEDAR number is only 400k from reaching 84 anyway.

You're also avoiding the issue, it was 84 in August 2014, how was it still in the 84 range by the end of 2015? Especially when in holidays like Nov 2014 NPD the 360 outsold even the Wii U and sold 310k?

Sorry man but your numbers are wrong. Basically, EEDAR downplays NPD numbers and then pretends the 360 didn't sell anywhere else for almost 2 years. Doesn't make sense. Sorry.

 

[ethomaz]

The 84 million wasn't shipped. But I'd figured you'd try to spin it that way. Even though it doesn't make sense since you EEDAR number is only 400k from reaching 84 anyway.

You're also avoiding the issue, it was 84 in August 2014, how was it still in the 84 range by the end of 2015? Especially when in holidays like Nov 2014 NPD the 360 outsold even the Wii U and sold 310k?

Sorry man but your numbers are wrong. Basically, EEDAR downplays NPD numbers and then pretends the 360 didn't sell anywhere else for almost 2 years. Doesn't make sense. Sorry.

Again...

Over 84 million is shipment... it was at 83.7 at end of March, 2014... the over 84 million is from E3 MS presentation in June, 2014... it shipped less than 0.8m in Apr-Jun 2014 (so max at end of June 2014 was 84.5m shipped that confirms the 84m shipped at early June) but MS hide it together with XB1.

EEDAR was sold-thought... EEDAR uses NPD data lol... they are the same company.

360 sold 4m+ in 2014 (these November 2014 310k are included here) and 1m+ in 2015... so 5m+ in two years.

It makes sense and fits... you are the only one lacking the ability to understand the basics... what doesn't make sense is 84m sold in June when it they shipped just that.

 

[mckmas8808]

The 84 million wasn't shipped. But I'd figured you'd try to spin it that way. Even though it doesn't make sense since you EEDAR number is only 400k from reaching 84 anyway.

You're also avoiding the issue, it was 84 in August 2014, how was it still in the 84 range by the end of 2015? Especially when in holidays like Nov 2014 NPD the 360 outsold even the Wii U and sold 310k?

Sorry man but your numbers are wrong. Basically, EEDAR downplays NPD numbers and then pretends the 360 didn't sell anywhere else for almost 2 years. Doesn't make sense. Sorry.

Do you work for Microsoft?

 

[ethomaz]

For these interested these are the shipment for 360 until March 2014.

In May to June 2014 MS shipped 1.1m XB1 + 360... so you can make the math... if you use half to each you will get 84.2m shipped for 360 as June 2014... of course most of shipment was XB1.

Xbox 360

  FY          Jl-Sp    Oc-Dc    Ja-Mr    Ap-Jn      FY       LTD

2005/06         -       1.5      1.7      1.8       5.0      5.0

2006/07        1.0      4.4      0.5      0.7       6.6      11.6

2007/08        1.8      4.3      1.3      1.3       8.7      20.3

2008/09        2.2      6.0      1.7      1.2       11.2     31.5

2009/10        2.1      5.2      1.5      1.5       10.3     41.8

2010/11        2.8      6.3      2.7      1.7       13.7     55.3

2011/12        2.3      8.2      1.4      1.1       13.0     68.3

2012/13        1.7      5.9      1.3      1.0       9.9      78.2

2013/14        1.2      3.5      0.8       ???      5.5      83.7

How can anybody think the E3 claim at 84m is sold? It is clearly shipped.

 

[Afro Republican]

NPD, GFK, Famitsu, Media Create, etc.


Do you know the difference between shipment and sold-though?

BTW that "over 84m shipped" was at E3 in June... not August... 360 was at 83.7m shipped in March 2014 and MS stopped to give 360 figures after that.

The opposite of what you wrote the MS "84m" pretty much match with EEDAR data but that is no surprise.


It is clear show 1m+ sold between Dec 2014 and Dec 2015.

Keep eating crow.

Oh my bad I keep forgetting you like to edit posts way later to be an ass.

84 million wasn't shipped.

MIcrosoft is the one that announced 84 million to the outlets covering it. So unless those outlets are lying your March comment is false.

83.7 million by the end of the year doesn't make any sense. Especially given the big holiday the 360 has in 2014 which you seem to be purposefully omitting. It even outsold the Wii U.

EEDAR tried to show world wide totals, yet you are arguing over NPD changes to reach the number but fail to realize that EEDAR stopped tracking most 360 sales outside NPD to reach their numbers.

If the 360 WW was at 83.7 million, how did they get that number? The 84 you have for 2015 only includes an increased based on estimated NPD numbers, no other numbers from any other country are included.

Thank you for once again showing that EEDAR is unreliable.

In fact that same chart was brought up on this site a few times, and the 3DS numbers were found to be off rather quickly. (and you were in that thread)

Interesting now all of a sudden you consider these EEDAR charts accurate enough to parade around.

 

[ethomaz]

Bla

I wont reaped myself... so copy/paste.

--

For these interested these are the shipment for 360 until March 2014.

In May to June 2014 MS shipped 1.1m XB1 + 360... so you can make the math... if you use half to each you will get 84.2m shipped for 360 as June 2014.

Xbox 360

  FY          Jl-Sp    Oc-Dc    Ja-Mr    Ap-Jn      FY       LTD

2005/06         -       1.5      1.7      1.8       5.0      5.0

2006/07        1.0      4.4      0.5      0.7       6.6      11.6

2007/08        1.8      4.3      1.3      1.3       8.7      20.3

2008/09        2.2      6.0      1.7      1.2       11.2     31.5

2009/10        2.1      5.2      1.5      1.5       10.3     41.8

2010/11        2.8      6.3      2.7      1.7       13.7     55.3

2011/12        2.3      8.2      1.4      1.1       13.0     68.3

2012/13        1.7      5.9      1.3      1.0       9.9      78.2

2013/14        1.2      3.5      0.8       ???      5.5      83.7

How can anybody think the E3 claim at 84m is sold? It is clearly shipped.

PS. WOW big holiday where it outsold the Wii U? kkkkkkk OMG.

 

[Afro Republican]

For these interested these are the shipment for 360 until March 2014.

In May to June 2014 MS shipped 1.1m XB1 + 360... so you can make the math... if you use half to each you will get 84.2m shipped for 360 as June 2014... of course most of shipment was XB1.

Xbox 360

  FY          Jl-Sp    Oc-Dc    Ja-Mr    Ap-Jn      FY       LTD

2005/06         -       1.5      1.7      1.8       5.0      5.0

2006/07        1.0      4.4      0.5      0.7       6.6      11.6

2007/08        1.8      4.3      1.3      1.3       8.7      20.3

2008/09        2.2      6.0      1.7      1.2       11.2     31.5

2009/10        2.1      5.2      1.5      1.5       10.3     41.8

2010/11        2.8      6.3      2.7      1.7       13.7     55.3

2011/12        2.3      8.2      1.4      1.1       13.0     68.3

2012/13        1.7      5.9      1.3      1.0       9.9      78.2

2013/14        1.2      3.5      0.8       ???      5.5      83.7

How can anybody think the E3 claim at 84m is sold? It is clearly shipped.

Interesting chart with no link, but let's assume anyway.

Where are the 2015 shipments for you to claim they only sold 1 million in 2015?

 

[Afro Republican]

Sorry but the chart is wrong.

Notice that you can find on this very site people talking about the chart being wrong for multiple systems like XBO and 3DS, which the above user was in, but now conveniently thinks its accurate.

The 360 was at 84 sold not shipped.

His chart only works if the 360 didn't sell anywhere outside the US, which is impossible.

Because if you actually look at his posts he's saying that the 360 was at 83.7 and not at 84, and then in the rest of the year barely makes it over 84 million despite having a great Nov and December. Than only does a bit more 84.7

So he's basically saying WW the 360 from June 2014, to end of December 2015, the 360 only sold 1 million units even though that's actually impossible.

it also doesn't include any sales from any other country. He said the 310k Nov the 360 had in 2014 was "included" in the 83.7 number but how is that possible if he says the 83.7 million was as of march?

it was at 83.7 at end of March, 2014

So that means that he didn't include the last few months on 2014 at all. So no that doesn't make sense either.

The 360 was at 84 million in the summer, and had a great Holiday Season. If 84 was a shipment and 83.7 was at march like he says, then just Nov alone should have got the 360 to 84 million with 310k:https://www.neogaf.com/threads/dece...dware-predictions-closes-january-13th.964549/

So with sept, October, and December added ON TOP of that, the 360 should have ended quite a bit above 84 million.

So that would mean in 2015 the 360 only sold some hundred thousand units since EEDAR has the 360 at 84.7 million?

Yeah, that doesn't make anysense. Especially based on their other charts, and the above users posts, seem to be omitting NPD sales from the totals. EEDAR basically has the Xbox selling zero outside the US since late 2014.

I invite anyone to try and make sense of this, but I'm pretty sure you're going to come to the same conclusion: These numbers are unreliable.

What's the point of acting like a WW tracker if you stop tracking worldwide sales for years?:

How can the 360, still big in the US, have a great holiday, then proceed the next year selling only a few hundred thousand units?

Why is EEDAR not including sales from other countries?

How can Novembers 310k be included in the 83.7 million if that was reached supposedly in March earlier the same year?

 

[ethomaz]

What do you learn to read?

Your link of 84m is not summer but E3 2014... June 2014... it is shipment lol.

My shipment data is from MS financials I’m not supposing nothing like you with no source claiming lies.

 

[Afro Republican]

What do you learn to read?

Lol.

What do you learn to read?

Your link of 84m is not summer but E3 2014... June 2014... it is shipment lol.

You do know that June is in the summer right?

My shipment data is from MS financials I’m not supposing nothing like you

Don't know what you're trying to say here, but you claimed the november 2014 sales of 310k where included in EEDAR's 2014 numbers (83.7) and then you backtracked and said they were from march.

Your argument falls apart either way. Your EEDAR charts seem to be only NA sales and basically seem to have the Xbox 360 selling zero everywhere else.

Not to mention of the 83.7 million is what they sold in June and 84 million was a shipment that means MS sold 1 million consoles ONLY from June 2014 to December 2015, which makese no sense since Nov and Dec 2014 would already be over half a million.

 

[ethomaz]

Lol.



You do know that June is in the summer right?



Don't know what you're trying to say here, but you claimed the november 2014 sales of 310k where included in EEDAR's 2014 numbers (83.7) and then you backtracked and said they were from march.

Your argument falls apart either way. Your EEDAR charts seem to be only NA sales and basically seem to have the Xbox 360 selling zero everywhere else.

Not to mention of the 83.7 million is what they sold in June and 84 million was a shipment that means MS sold 1 million consoles ONLY from June 2014 to December 2015, which makese no sense since Nov and Dec 2014 would already be over half a million.

Learn to read...

83.7m is shipped at end of March 2014.
84m is shipped at June 12, 2014.
Shipment for XB1 + 360 was 1.1m in April to June 2014.
MS probably shipped way less than 2m from July to December 2014.

83.7m is sold-though at end of 2014.
360 sold-through between January and December 2014 a bit over 4 million these include your 311k super high because it is better than Wii U NPD.

Stop to live a dream that didn’t happened.

 

[SaucyJack]

Alas poor Afro Republican, I knew him Horatio: a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy.