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[xaosslug]

SELLING:

DS4 controller (like new/black) - $45
Madden 25 (PS4) - $25
Warch Dogs (PS4) - $35

MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013)

specs:

2.6GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
512gb PCIe-based Flash Storage
16GB RAM

accessories:

STM Grip Hardshell Minimalist Case (black)
Kuzy black keyboard cover (black)

pic:

miscellaneous infoes:

it's like new/barely used, comes with all packaging, and is covered for eligible hardware repairs and service under Apple's Limited Warranty until January 10, 2015.

i planned on going Mac when my ultrabook BSOD'd, but I managed to resurrect it (and upgrade the ram! ) So, I think I'm gonna stick with PC for a bit...

asking:

$2100

i was NeoGAF Gold, right now I'm 26 each buying and selling with power status on both. So, buy with confidence!

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

My biggest beef with Eddie Griffin was his attitude. Yes, juniors with zero feedback and a new PayPal account have to start somewhere, but his whole demeanour was offputting. "Oh just wait until I get feedback", a laundry list of excuses for not shipping items out quickly, not responding, only accepting PayPal gifts, picking a fight with everyone, etc. Good riddance, even if his prices were strangely good. Hope everyone gets their items from him.

 

[zulux21]

Requiring buyers to use the gift option for Paypal should be disallowed. It's 3% - either get over it or tack it onto your prices.

As for the people who got scammed, that's awful, but someone new requiring Gift option is the reddest of red flags. Refusing to accept adding on the fees in lieu of the gift option seals the deal even more.

I'd even go so far as to say junior members should be disallowed in the B/S/T thread, but that's just me.

I still don't see any need to add more rules for situations that you can easily just avoid if you personally don't like them.

The paypal gift thing did actually reach a conclusion that made slight sense to require it, as newer accounts apparently have a waiting period for money before they can use it if it's not a gift. That's not to say I think it's right to require it, as if you are so hard up for money that you can't afford to pay for shipping while waiting a week or two for the funds to clear, you might need to be looking for another job instead of selling stuff here (or selling things locally so you can get money right away) I do believe however it's only right that if someone says $25 for an item that you make sure to send them $26.06 to cover the fees (if you use the goods option) and so they end up with $25 unless their post clearly says that fees are included in the price.

And I still don't see any reason to keep junior members out of here... some of the best sellers I have seen have been juniors that only really exist on this site in this thread.

I do however think common sense guideline in the first post before the feedback list might be needed though. If it's a junior member you likely don't want to use paypal gift. If they refuse to send pictures of expensive items it's a red flag (especially if it's something like a vita or 3ds which can take pictures of itself via a mirror ) If someone doesn't have a lot of feedback you likely don't want to buy big items from them unless you are fine with losing that money. ect.

 

[Symphonic]

Positive seller feedback for nicoga3000.

Super easy to work with and everything is in pristine condition. Excellent!

 

[LQX]

I really don't think gift payments should be totally be off limits if you trust the the seller or if the item is a relatively cheap digital good. I ask for gift payments on low prices items and my digital goods but I also have great feedback. I will also send gift payments to Gaffers I trust or if it is cheap item or digital good.

Also, the problem with EddiGriffen was not only the fact people gifted him their payments but totally disregarded clear warning signs from him and other Gaffers heavily hinting the dude was not on the up.

-The guy joined two weeks ago,
-Posted low res Google images pictures of his items.
-Selling a truckload of crap yet seemingly was knew to selling.
-Made mention of the fact he was new to PayPal and his account was limited.
-Argued and was going back and forth with those calling him out.

Not saying anyone deserved to be ripped off but I'm seriously amazed so many of you still bought from the guy as it was so apparent the dude was super turbo extreme to the max shady.

 

[Uraizen]

Positive seller feedback for dmix90 - Sweet, sweet games

 

[Nete]

Positive seller feedback for Labadal. Quick and smooth transaction

 

[Labadal]

Positive seller feedback for Labadal. Quick and smooth transaction

Positive buyer feedback for Nete.

Another ranger was recruited today.

 

[kennah]

WtB:

Digital
Link between worlds download code -$20
Captain America winter soldier download - $5
Dibs on someone's xmen days of future past when it comes out

Physical (In Canada please) (or digital if they exist)
Pokemon x or y
New Super Mario Brothers 2
Mario and Luigi Dream Team
Flexible on price but would like around or under $20 shipped each.

 

[AwRy108]

<<<WTS>>>

PLAYSTATION STUFF
30-day PS+ Trial (new members only) - $3
InFamous Second Son: Cole's Legacy DLC - $3
InJustice Gods Among Us Ultimate Ed: Music Album Download - $1

NINTENDO STUFF
Club Nintendo Code for NSMB 2 - $2

The Legend of Zelda - A Link Between Worlds 3-Poster Set (Club Nintendo exclusive, sealed) - $20

Nintendo Power #285 w/ Poster (FINAL ISSUE, sealed) - $30

WiiU Shoulder Bag by GAMEware (brand new w/ tags still on it) - $25

PC (Steam Keys)
Warlock 2: The Exiled - Great Mage Ed. - $20
Dirt Showdown - $5
FEZ - SOLD

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*PRICES INCLUDE SHIPPING (...but international buyers will have to pay extra depending on location)
*Assume LIKE NEW and COMPLETE unless noted otherwise
*I accept PayPal and Amazon Giftcards
*All reasonable offers will be considered
*Pictures available upon request

 

[JMDSO]

<<<WTS>>>

NINTENDO STUFF

Club Nintendo Code for NSMB 2 - $2






PC (Steam Keys)
Warlock 2: The Exiled - Great Mage Ed. - $20
Dirt Showdown - $5
FEZ - $3

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*PRICES INCLUDE SHIPPING (...but international buyers will have to pay extra depending on location)
*Assume LIKE NEW and COMPLETE unless noted otherwise
*I accept PayPal and Amazon Giftcards
*All reasonable offers will be considered
*Pictures available upon request

PM Sent

 

[nicoga3000]

Positive seller feedback for nicoga3000.

Super easy to work with and everything is in pristine condition. Excellent!

Positive buyer feedback for Symphonic! Classy dude!

 

[AwRy108]

I really don't think gift payments should be totally be off limits if you trust the the seller or if the item is a relatively cheap digital good. I ask for gift payments on low prices items and my digital goods but I also have great feedback. I will also send gift payments to Gaffers I trust or if it is cheap item or digital good.

Also, the problem with EddiGriffen was not only the fact people gifted him their payments but totally disregarded clear warning signs from him and other Gaffers heavily hinting the dude was not on the up.

-The guy joined two weeks ago,
-Posted low res Google images pictures of his items.
-Selling a truckload of crap yet seemingly was knew to selling.
-Made mention of the fact he was new to PayPal and his account was limited.
-Argued and was going back and forth with those calling him out.

Not saying anyone deserved to be ripped off but I'm seriously amazed so many of you still bought from the guy as it was so apparent the dude was super turbo extreme to the max shady.

I agree with everything said here. I've paid via gift for probably 99% of my 80+ purchases on this thread, and never had a single problem.

People need to use common sense, pay attention to a seller's composure and demeanor, and then make informed purchasing decisions (aka. if you're slightly weary, then just don't pay via Gift). Like it or not, there's always going to be a splinter of inherent risk when conducting business on a public forum. Still, it's way, WAY better than using (fe)ebay and Craigslist.

On the contrary, if we start creating additional rules and regulations, there's no telling where it'll stop.

 

[KoreanBarbecue]

Positive seller feedback for mdsfx. Shipped me a game super fast, and as always, was a pleasure dealing with.

 

[CambriaRising]

I really don't think gift payments should be totally be off limits if you trust the the seller or if the item is a relatively cheap digital good. I ask for gift payments on low prices items and my digital goods but I also have great feedback. I will also send gift payments to Gaffers I trust or if it is cheap item or digital good.

Also, the problem with EddiGriffen was not only the fact people gifted him their payments but totally disregarded clear warning signs from him and other Gaffers heavily hinting the dude was not on the up.

-The guy joined two weeks ago,
-Posted low res Google images pictures of his items.
-Selling a truckload of crap yet seemingly was knew to selling.
-Made mention of the fact he was new to PayPal and his account was limited.
-Argued and was going back and forth with those calling him out.

Not saying anyone deserved to be ripped off but I'm seriously amazed so many of you still bought from the guy as it was so apparent the dude was super turbo extreme to the max shady.

Not to mention that he returned payments on normal transactions and would only do gift. Likely because he knew he was more protected if he didn't deliver.

 

[mdsfx]

Positive seller feedback for mdsfx. Shipped me a game super fast, and as always, was a pleasure dealing with.

Positive buyer feedback for KoreanBarbecue. just keeps coming back for more limited edition 360 shmups

 

[Bboy AJ]

Anyone interested in Destiny Limited Edition swag? By swag, I mean Guardian Folio, Arms and Armament Field Guide, Postcards from the Golden Age, and Antique Star Chart. $20 shipped. PM me.

Holy shit at people actually buying from Eddie. What's wrong with you guys? There was no clearer signs of a scammer. What an absolute dirt bag.

 

[ClearData]

Positive seller feedback for dmix90. The transaction went through quickly and service and communication were impeccable. I would do business with him/her again.

 

[BeEatNU]

Damn those are some good prices, someone buy this man's video cards.

I try to keep prices competitive

This.

g35twinturboBeEatNU has awesome prices.

haha finally!

Seriously, buy one. I bought one from him awhile ago (MSI, I think) and it's still going strong. I'm so tempted to go SLI.

you can always buy another

 

[Groof]

This might be futile, but giving it a shot.

Want to Trade

NA PS4 copy of Destiny + Vanguard code + 30-day PS+ trial (came with the white PS4 bundle)

for

EU PS4 Destiny + Vanguard code

Game is played, but I unboxed it last night so it's still pristine. Codes are unused.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

+1 positive feedback to dmix90

Excellent seller as always.

 

[mgs2master2]

WTB

Megaman Legends 1 and 2 for a reasonable price. Theyre stupidly expensive on ebay and amazon. PM me please

PM'd you

 

[blazenumb1]

I know this is random but

WTT:

I'm have an extra X1 Destiny Ghost Edition(Sealed)

I would like to trade for:

Other CE's of similiar value
Vita bundle
3DS bundle
Bundle of games of similiar value
Marvel/DC Memorabilia


Also, I know I'm a junior but I have over 100 feeback here(been on gaf for 2 yrs, just dont really post outside this thread)

 

[Hollycat]

This might be futile, but giving it a shot.

Want to Trade

NA PS4 copy of Destiny + Vanguard code + 30-day PS+ trial (came with the white PS4 bundle)

for

EU PS4 Destiny + Vanguard code

Game is played, but I unboxed it last night so it's still pristine. Codes are unused.

I thought ps4 wasn't region locked. Is there a difference in the versions?

 

[Herpes Reasons]

+1 positive feedback for dmix90

 

[Groof]

I thought ps4 wasn't region locked. Is there a difference in the versions?

The codes and DLC are region locked. Unless Destiny is different in this regard.

 

[VindictiveGnome]

Positive feedback for digita1alchemy (sold me Battalion Wars 2) and dhlt25 (sold me Wasteland 2). After the Steam key didn't have the extra games on it, he refunded me a portion of the money sent to him. Excellent seller and kind dude!

you can always buy another

I totally would if I didn't just move into an apartment with my girlfriend.

 

[Amagon]

Imho, I believe there should be restrictions on new sellars in order to protect this community and to protect themselves from getting thrown under the bus. Just throwing a couple of suggestions out there, hopefully we can make some changes to this as a group for the better.

- Sellars should be only allowed for members only. No juniors.

- New sellars should not offer the use of PayPal gift until they reach a Plus or Gold status.

 

[braves01]

Imho, I believe there should be restrictions on new sellars in order to protect this community and to protect themselves from getting thrown under the bus. Just throwing a couple of suggestions out there, hopefully we can make some changes to this as a group for the better.

- Sellars should be only allowed for members only. No juniors.

- New sellars should not offer the use of PayPal gift until they reach a Plus or Gold status.

I'd object to that, or want some more wiggle room for juniors like myself that have an extensive posting history but have been juniored for making bad threads.

 

[OmegaZero]

>.<

but oled...v1000 is a treasure

I'm really only using my 2000 now. It feels much better to use even if the screen is noticably worse imo. Since my 1000 is just lying around I figured someone else might enjoy it more than I have recently.

 

[sabanoo]

Imho, I believe there should be restrictions on new sellars in order to protect this community and to protect themselves from getting thrown under the bus. Just throwing a couple of suggestions out there, hopefully we can make some changes to this as a group for the better.

- Sellars should be only allowed for members only. No juniors.

- New sellars should not offer the use of PayPal gift until they reach a Plus or Gold status.

Why not just not pay with PayPal gift? This has come up multiple times recently and people keep suggesting the same things every time but the only real solution for any buyer is to not send gift payments when it doesn't make sense.

 

[BinaryPork2737]

Positive seller feedback for dmix90! The price he's selling FFXIII price made it an easy impulse buy to make. Thanks again

 

[nrvalleytime]

Imho, I believe there should be restrictions on new sellars in order to protect this community and to protect themselves from getting thrown under the bus. Just throwing a couple of suggestions out there, hopefully we can make some changes to this as a group for the better.

- Sellars should be only allowed for members only. No juniors.

- New sellars should not offer the use of PayPal gift until they reach a Plus or Gold status.

No. Just don't do business with anyone who doesn't make you feel comfortable. It doesn't need to be any bigger than that.

Eddie was successful because too many people didn't stop consider the situation before trying to contact him. Context is important, but good prices seem to make people forget their own standards.

Use common sense, deal with established buyers, and, if you're a Junior, accept the fact that many people will require you to deliver first before engaging you in a trade. If you can't deal with that, then perhaps this forum isn't the place for you to trade.

Just no need to make it extremely tedious. Paypal or not, use common sense.

 

[xaosslug]

super-mega-positive feedback for BruceLeeRoy! I highly recommend buy/sell/trading with him if at all possible! <3

 

[dhlt25]

positive buyer feedback for VindictiveGnome quick and easy transaction.

Sorry the second key didn't have the extra games. Hope the partial refund helps.

 

[Amagon]

I'd object to that, or want some more wiggle room for juniors like myself that have an extensive posting history but have been juniored for making bad threads.

Yea, members that got juniored shouldn't get screwed because of it. I'm thinking of a idea having a note along with the members name in the feedback list stating the junior member was a member beforehand. Just a suggestion of course.

Why not just not pay with PayPal gift? This has come up multiple times recently and people keep suggesting the same things every time but the only real solution for any buyer is to not send gift payments when it doesn't make sense.

That's true, all in in all, it's basically trust issues with these new sellars that they need to establish themselves as trusted members in our community in order to suggest paypal gift as a added option for a transaction. And it's the sole discretion of the buyer to use PayPal gift if they choose to go that route.

 

[derder]

FS:

NIB Destiny LE Xbox One
NIB Destiny Ghost Xbox One

 

[KoreanBarbecue]

Hi everyone. Now that the Eddie Griffin controversy has died down a bit, I wanted to chime in on a few things.

1. I've updated the thread TOS with a few things, including clearly stating that lotteries or sweepstakes will not be tolerated and are forbidden from being posted in this thread.

2. I've also added a disclaimer regarding payments, particularly the risks around using PayPal Gift. I know a lot of us use it, myself included, but I noted that it should be reserved for transactions where you are absolutely certain of the integrity of the person you're dealing with. Granted, I have no control over what someone chooses to use for a payment method, but at the least the warning is now officially part of the thread's TOS.

3. I will not endorse limiting Junior Members from using this thread, especially in the capacity of a seller. Besides not having the tools to actually enforce this, I feel that it unfairly paints all Juniors as being shifty, back alley scam artists. We all started off as Juniors and we have, at least some of us, worked our way through the ranks to be considered legitimate buyers AND sellers. And besides, I know lots of members here who exclusively sell or buy, but not both. We just have to be alert and smart and remember the old adage "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is." Buy smart and protect yourself, it's as simple as that.

The thing I love about this thread is its almost unnatural ability to police itself. While we have the occasional debate or hiccup now and then, it usually works itself out in a few days at the most. In regards to the Eddie Griffin situation, I was a bit torn. While the guy's mannerisms and way of working were odd, I didn't have the ability to really do anything about it. But, if you feel that a member may be scamming people or something similar, please send me a PM so I can at least monitor the situation or alert a mod so they can investigate further.

Thanks again to everyone here who help make this thread a place where great deals take place.

 

[liezryou]

Ok although I'm not selling for a while here, just had to chime in on this eddie and other junior member scammers that have been popping up along with the paypal discussion.

There are two very valid reasons why I (among other sellers) choose to use the gift payment option.

#1) Less fees (Ranging from 0% to .5%) vs 4.4% +.40c on the normal payment option [Which comes out of the seller's pocket]

#2) More safety for me (the seller). Selling digital items, per paypal's policy is not covered under their seller protection. That means if i sell using the services/goods option, and someone decides they want to dispute it for whatever whim, I'm pretty much screwed. Gift gives me a little bit more security and allows me the freedom to sell to anyone.

Furthermore, i don't think as a whole, we should be allowed to dictate what people should or should not be allowed to do as far as payment method goes. If someone feels comfortable in giving someone a gift, let them. If not, they can use the goods and services and bare the fees if they don't.

However, i do think we should have a selling restriction for juniors, whether that be some sort of moderator approval or an outright ban from selling. In my history of trading, if there is one thing i learned, 99.9% of scammers are usually people with new accounts because of the relative ease of creating throwaways. Albeit, it's harder on GAF but it still can be done.

 

[Off-Kilter]

Regarding the updated thread rules, I don't believe raffles/sweepstakes themselves are not permitted, but rather its raffles/sweepstakes that require "donations" or any other kind of payment that are not permitted. Some clarity would be appreciated

 

[kitchenmotors]

However, i do think we should have a selling restriction for juniors, whether that be some sort of moderator approval or an outright ban from selling.

The mods won't sit here and approve or regulate this thread like that. It's not really their job. People just need to have a level head about shady sellers and make common sense choices. I understand it's hard to pass up a good deal, but like others have said before, if it's too good to be true it probably is.

While I haven't sold or bought anything in this thread in quite a while, I was watching the Eddie Griffin thing earlier this week before the old thread got closed and did PM a mod about the situation. I also posted on the Facebook GAF group about Eddie Griffin warning people. I didn't really think it was appropriate to make a post in the thread for calling someone out who may have been good on his word, but I did some things that I felt were okay to give some people a heads up.

 

[liezryou]

The mods won't sit here and approve or regulate this thread like that. It's not really their job. People just need to have a level head about shady sellers and make common sense choices. I understand it's hard to pass up a good deal, but like others have said before, if it's too good to be true it probably is.

While I haven't sold or bought anything in this thread in quite a while, I was watching the Eddie Griffin thing earlier this week before the old thread got closed and did PM a mod about the situation. I also posted on the Facebook GAF group about Eddie Griffin warning people. I didn't really think it was appropriate to make a post in the thread for calling someone out who may have been good on his word, but I did some things that I felt were okay to give some people a heads up.

I realized that as i was posting it, And I'm not sure if we have the tools for it, but perhaps we could have a thread specific moderator?

 

[Hollycat]

Regarding Junior sales bans. That would not be fair. Most scammers may be new members, but we have had plenty of juniors who were awesome sellers. Just use your best judgement when buying from or selling to a junior. If you aren't comfortable buying from juniors, just don't, or wait until a trustworthy member endorses them.

 

[zulux21]

Ok although I'm not selling for a while here, just had to chime in on this eddie and other junior member scammers that have been popping up along with the paypal discussion.

There are two very valid reasons why I (among other sellers) choose to use the gift payment option.

#1) Less fees (Ranging from 0% to .5%) vs 4.4% +.40c on the normal payment option [Which comes out of the seller's pocket]

#2) More safety for me (the seller). Selling digital items, per paypal's policy is not covered under their seller protection. That means if i sell using the services/goods option, and someone decides they want to dispute it for whatever whim, I'm pretty much screwed. Gift gives me a little bit more security and allows me the freedom to sell to anyone.

Furthermore, i don't think as a whole, we should be allowed to dictate what people should or should not be allowed to do as far as payment method goes. If someone feels comfortable in giving someone a gift, let them. If not, they can use the goods and services and bare the fees if they don't.

However, i do think we should have a selling restriction for juniors, whether that be some sort of moderator approval or an outright ban from selling. In my history of trading, if there is one thing i learned, 99.9% of scammers are usually people with new accounts because of the relative ease of creating throwaways. Albeit, it's harder on GAF but it still can be done.

my first thought is you don't have to sell to someone just because they are interest in your item. if you are worried about your safety with someone charging back a DLC item, then just don't sell to that person, only sell to people you trust. but of course people should be allowed to receive payment in most any way they want.. as long as it isn't illegal. (aka no selling your left kidney for a ps4 ) Again though just use your best judgement with juniors, there is no real reason to limit all of them because of a few bad ones.

Regarding the updated thread rules, I don't believe raffles/sweepstakes themselves are not permitted, but rather its raffles/sweepstakes that require "donations" or any other kind of payment that are not permitted. Some clarity would be appreciated

with raffles/sweepstakes that don't require payment you likely should just take it to the free to a good home thread as this thread is for buying/selling/trading all of which would likely make such things illegal. The only outside way I could think about would be if you kept track of people who bought from you in general and then did a raffle for them as a bonus, but in light of things you should contact a mod before doing such a thing.

I realized that as i was posting it, And I'm not sure if we have the tools for it, but perhaps we could have a thread specific moderator?

top of the first post

DISCLAIMER: the NeoGAF administration has no authority over any transactions that are facilitated by this thread and cannot be held responsible for whatever results from using this thread to buy, sell, or trade goods or services. We advise caution and common sense.

this thread exists on neogaf but aside from normal forum rules they have no plans of policing it nor can we expect them to.

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

Welp, seems I'm out $5 because of being enticed by Eddie's Destiny giveaway.

I feel like a complete idiot. Lesson learned I guess.

 

[Bboy AJ]

Everyone who somehow still decided to buy from Eddie Griffin, despite the many, many warning signs, PayPal gift me $100 for a brand new PS4. I have an infinite amount of them but the sale only lasts until the end of this week.

Seriously though, we don't need more rules. It's fine as is. People should choose carefully.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

No rules need to be changed, people just need to be more careful with their money.

 

[zulux21]

Everyone who somehow still decided to buy from Eddie Griffin, despite the many, many warning signs, PayPal gift me $100 for a brand new PS4. I have an infinite amount of them but the sale only lasts until the end of this week.

Seriously though, we don't need more rules. It's fine as is. People should choose carefully.

yup and if you are going to take a chance on someone who seems a bit shady, just take a small one that you would be ok with losing that money. For example I was going to buy some eshop cards from him. If I lost $10 so be it.

always take a risk worth reward approach. Is the odds of me losing my money worth the risk compared to spending a bit more. Don't get sucked in just because it's a good price. As I said before you can always PM someone you are interested as soon as you see if it you are interested and then take the time to think about if they are trustworthy and it is actually a good buy. No one should fault people for changing their mind before both sides have agreed to the terms of the item (in my case sometimes my wife tells me no you can't buy that or I realize I already have $500 spent on video games for the month and should cut back after PMing someone ><)

 

[KoreanBarbecue]

Regarding the updated thread rules, I don't believe raffles/sweepstakes themselves are not permitted, but rather its raffles/sweepstakes that require "donations" or any other kind of payment that are not permitted. Some clarity would be appreciated

As far as I have been made aware, any raffle or sweepstakes is forbidden on GAF. Legally, there are lots of liability issues with them. If you ever see a legitimate lottery, take a look at all the accompanying fine print.

 

[zulux21]

As far as I have been made aware, any raffle or sweepstakes is forbidden on GAF. Legally, there are lots of liability issues with them. If you ever see a legitimate lottery, take a look at all the accompanying fine print.

there are some on the site.
The free to a good home has modbot stuff which you enter your name and it randomly picks people (raffle) but it doesn't cost anything to enter.

there have also been threads for medical bills for users and cats that get donations of items and ask for donations while they give away stuff after certain points to people who apply to get said items in the thread, but again the donations are not required to actually win stuff, they are typically just used as a placemarker for when the next wave of stuff will come out.

The issue here was the fact that he required money to join the raffle, which makes it a form of gambling and in general illegal as you need a raffle license in general to hold a raffle (or at least you did in michigan, I am pretty sure you do in most states in the Us though) for my anime club it was a $25 fee to hold our raffle legally (likely varies by state) but without it it would have been illegal and someone could have reported us. but yeah they in general have a lot of fine print that people over look.