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Camelot Unchained Kickstarter - The DAOC Successor from Mark Jacobs [Complete, $2.2M]

Cipherr

Member
I don't normally do this. But I am in for this one.

jVjGJEQ.png


Its almost hard for me to believe how ahead of its time DAoC's PvP was. I will help finance this just for a CHANCE at this being remotely as good as camelots was. Its kind of sad that it has come to this, but I suppose Im just glad that something like KS exists...

Very interested in this. DAOC was probably my favorite game of all time. So many memories.

Indeed. I was a scumbag bandwagon class player in DAoC though. I played a Shadowzerker when Left Axe was overpowered in Midgard, then a Dragon Fang Infiltrator before the 9 second stun was nerfed, then a PBAE Mana Chanter in an Mez>Bomb group, then a Spiritmaster towards the end with the pets that intercepted attacks, lol. I was a Smite Cleric in there somewhere too.

NoShame.com
 

Burt

Member
5? It will be 15 (or 13 at least if all the crafters are the same)classes at the start. Each realm will have different classes.


I would be ok if Stealth classes arent there, but you could definitely have something like 1 sides healer have stealth, one sides dps have stealth, and one classes hybrid have stealth.

Well, yeah, I should've said per realm, with each filling an established role. Still sounds like a recipe for whining if you spread the stealth out to different roles though. It would be a serious balance problem to have one realm's dps be able to kill straight out of stealth with a single rotation and another only being able to say, "Well, my healer can hide... until he starts healing, that is." It's totally doable, sure, but it wouldn't work out well. I just don't think there are enough classes per realm to include stealth without it overrunning the game at launch. Could very well be there in the future though.
 

Ithil

Member
If they reach their 2M goal, the project lead will add 2M more to the budget from his own money?

How rich is this guy?
 

Xevren

Member
I don't normally do this. But I am in for this one.



Its almost hard for me to believe how ahead of its time DAoC's PvP was. I will help finance this just for a CHANCE at this being remotely as good as camelots was. Its kind of sad that it has come to this, but I suppose Im just glad that something like KS exists...



Indeed. I was a scumbag bandwagon class player in DAoC though. I played a Shadowzerker when Left Axe was overpowered in Midgard, then a Dragon Fang Infiltrator before the 9 second stun was nerfed, then a PBAE Mana Chanter in an Mez>Bomb group, then a Spiritmaster towards the end with the pets that intercepted attacks, lol. I was a Smite Cleric in there somewhere too.

NoShame.com






Haha, at least you're proud of it. I got to play a shadowzerker during the golden days and that was ridiculous. Or the way early days of no one having resists and having to endure Stungard, hell or even a caster. Just obliterated everyone.
 

Burt

Member
It's gonna end up around 550k for opening day. That'd be good for nearly any other KS'ed game yet, but this 2 million goal is gonna make it tough. They'll need around 50k a day for the next month, and looking at the other gaming Kickstarter's, that's pretty much the absolute max anyone's pulled in. Should've had some more art and music to add some style to that video, and they better put some easy to reach stretch goals in within the next week.
 
It's gonna end up around 550k for opening day. That'd be good for nearly any other KS'ed game yet, but this 2 million goal is gonna make it tough. They'll need around 50k a day for the next month, and looking at the other gaming Kickstarter's, that's pretty much the absolute max anyone's pulled in. Should've had some more art and music to add some style to that video, and they better put some easy to reach stretch goals in within the next week.

I wonder how much the subscription plan is holding this back.
 

Burt

Member
I wonder how much the subscription plan is holding this back.

Probably a lot, most people can't tolerate that kind of business model anymore with all the decent enough free alternatives out there. That's fine, because I think the subscription is actually part of the identity of the game in the sense that it'll make the community skew a little more hardcore/old school and less troll-tastic, but it was bound to hamper their potential market. Let's hope the Kickstarter doesn't end up as evidence of that. Really would've been a shame, because I feel like 1.3-1.5 mil would been pretty easily achievable.
 
Well, yeah, I should've said per realm, with each filling an established role. Still sounds like a recipe for whining if you spread the stealth out to different roles though. It would be a serious balance problem to have one realm's dps be able to kill straight out of stealth with a single rotation and another only being able to say, "Well, my healer can hide... until he starts healing, that is." It's totally doable, sure, but it wouldn't work out well. I just don't think there are enough classes per realm to include stealth without it overrunning the game at launch. Could very well be there in the future though.


Yeah, Im not saying its a good idea, but I do think it could work.

You heard so much whining about all the classes at some point in DAoC too, so it wouldnt really be a change. Plus, as someone whos played a Resto Druid, being able to stealth and heal is pretty god damn awesome!


....I always did like running through the gates in EM and wondering how many I would get jumped by though.


Probably a lot, most people can't tolerate that kind of business model anymore with all the decent enough free alternatives out there. That's fine, because I think the subscription is actually part of the identity of the game in the sense that it'll make the community skew a little more hardcore/old school and less troll-tastic, but it was bound to hamper their potential market. Let's hope the Kickstarter doesn't end up as evidence of that. Really would've been a shame, because I feel like 1.3-1.5 mil would been pretty easily achievable.

Im actually kind of glad it will have a subscription, because it will mean that the people that are playing will actually REALLY want to be there, I dont care if there is 100s of servers that are reasonably populated like WoW, I just want like 5 extremely well populated servers with crazy hardcore people.


I really miss the days of going on the IGN boards, and knowing who I needed to talk to to get a set of armour made, or weapons crafted (the answer was always Leftie on Alb Nimue!). Im hoping this game can be more like that.
 

Jac_Solar

Member
From what I posted in the other thread.

The lack of PvE gives me a great deal of pause. Everyone likes to talk about Realm vs Realm in Dark Age of Camelot completely forgetting or ignoring the importance of PvE in that game and how big of a role it played. How it gave RvR some meaning and structure. How it provided some order to the chaotic zerg fest that RvR could become. How a large group of people preferred that and even the RvR battlegrounds over Frontier RvR after a while. I think there was a time when people were doing something to stop themselves from leveling or at least not leaving a certain battleground so they could log back into if they overlevel for it because the experience there was more fun then the frontier based RvR. It was more structured.

There was a reason why Trials of Atlantis had such a negative impact on the game (it was a mainly or purely PvE expansion I think) and I believe it had to do with how it changed the PvE design of the game to be more like Everquest's long and drawn out raid structure. That is what caused people to start to leave or at least accelerated the departure of people. Always felt they tried to fix the damage it did with the Catacombs expansion by making that closer to how the game was before ToA. They even started to change ToA after a while. If RvR was the only and biggest reason people played the game that wouldn't have happen.

I was in for $50 until I thought better of it and backed out. I really need to see more about this game but I have a bad feeling I know where this is going to be headed.

Yeah, games simply need a PVE element to balance things out. It's there to help people get established, to make the world feel like a world, a real place, to give balance to the PvP like you said.

The mention of no PvE sounds really weird. Has there ever been a game with *no* PVE? There are several heavily focused PvP games, but they all have some elements of PvE I think.

A pure PVP game, especially one that has a crafting system and a building system, is extremely risky. The amount of balancing that will require to get some semblance of enjoyment out of it is probably ridiculous.

How will the component system work? The things you require for crafting. Does it require other players? Or can you do it without other players? If so, how does that work with no mobs/PVE? Will your character just talk to NPC's for stuff, or pick flowers in a forest?

It just doesn't sound like something that is possible to balance and make. This is indeed a project that requires the most "hardcore" players, and that is a very respectable project, but making it PvP only is all wrong.

This game will require a lot of hardcore players who will stick with it through the establishment phase, and most likely the extreme required amount of patches, but then what? What sort of value do the items have, and the castles, fortresses, if everything revolves around beating other players? The concept itself just seems pointless.

What's the goal, outside of beating the other players, if the opposition only consists of other players/people, whose only goal is to beat you as well? Any sort of story will have to be very general and non specific.

I have the impression that most PvP focused games either fail quite early, or, in some unique cases, have a very, very small playerbase -- especially the ones with building and crafting. But even those had some PVE elements, right?
 
From what I posted in the other thread.

The lack of PvE gives me a great deal of pause. Everyone likes to talk about Realm vs Realm in Dark Age of Camelot completely forgetting or ignoring the importance of PvE in that game and how big of a role it played. How it gave RvR some meaning and structure. How it provided some order to the chaotic zerg fest that RvR could become. How a large group of people preferred that and even the RvR battlegrounds over Frontier RvR after a while. I think there was a time when people were doing something to stop themselves from leveling or at least not leaving a certain battleground so they could log back into if they overlevel for it because the experience there was more fun then the frontier based RvR. It was more structured.

There was a reason why Trials of Atlantis had such a negative impact on the game (it was a mainly or purely PvE expansion I think) and I believe it had to do with how it changed the PvE design of the game to be more like Everquest's long and drawn out raid structure. That is what caused people to start to leave or at least accelerated the departure of people. Always felt they tried to fix the damage it did with the Catacombs expansion by making that closer to how the game was before ToA. They even started to change ToA after a while. If RvR was the only and biggest reason people played the game that wouldn't have happen.

I was in for $50 until I thought better of it and backed out. I really need to see more about this game but I have a bad feeling I know where this is going to be headed.



The reason people hated ToA wasnt because of the PvE, the reason people hated it, was because people that would only RvR had to do the PvE to compete in RvR. The actual PvE content in ToA was actually pretty well thought out, and could be a lot of fun (I know a lot of people who loved it), but when people who normally spent all their time out in RvR now had to do a long series of quests that would often require significantly more people than their normal Gank Group and then get lucky with some special drops, AND THEN spend a lot of time leveling up the weapons fighting usually a bunch of a certain mob.


It all just added up to them doing a bunch of stuff they never wanted to do, but they HAD to do it, because there was a few artifacts that had amazing abilties that if you didnt have in RvR you would lose to people that had them.
 

Burt

Member
A pure PVP game, especially one that has a crafting system and a building system, is extremely risky. The amount of balancing that will require to get some semblance of enjoyment out of it is probably ridiculous.

How will the component system work? The things you require for crafting. Does it require other players? Or can you do it without other players? If so, how does that work with no mobs/PVE? Will your character just talk to NPC's for stuff, or pick flowers in a forest?

There's been mention of player created and owned mines, and I'm sure there will be some form of traditional resource gathering, as well as monster mobs that drop their own form or crafting resources. Can't really have leather armor in a game without mobs unless you're skinning your opponents, and I doubt that's the case. I'm fairly certain the "No PvE" is in reference to NPC quests and traditional raids.

This game will require a lot of hardcore players who will stick with it through the establishment phase, and most likely the extreme required amount of patches, but then what? What sort of value do the items have, and the castles, fortresses, if everything revolves around beating other players? The concept itself just seems pointless.

What's the goal, outside of beating the other players, if the opposition only consists of other players/people, whose only goal is to beat you as well? Any sort of story will have to be very general and non specific.

As opposed to beating the predetermined computer? Running a gear treadmill as you wait for the next expansion? Skipping quest text as you autorun from NPC to NPC on your 100 hour journey to level up and get to the "real" game? The goal is to have fun. To enjoy combat and fighting with your realm and winning battles and playing the game. Competitive games are the most popular ones on the planet, and that extends well beyond the realm of videogames. You could argue that MMOs, with their large battlefields and deep, complex mechanics, have the potential to be one of the highest forms of group competition on the planet. PvE is a performance. It's orchestrating a bunch of motions to succeed in an established and defined situation. PvP is a competition, where it's you and your friends against them and theirs, and the best comes out on top. That's the point.

To answer your question directly, castles/fortresses and the like will be used for zone control, which translates into resource control, which translates into having a competitive advantage over your opponent, which means they're less likely to beat you down and take your shit and you're more likely to triumph over them, and when it comes down to it, that's about the oldest and most constant human motivation there is, isn't it?

Edit: Here's a post from the official website that captures a little of what I'm trying to say, that being, it's about chaos and cool things happening and making your own story and experiences through the gameplay instead of just checking tasks off a list as you grind for gear, PvP points, reputation, and whatever other inane tasks most MMOs set you to as they cash in on people's OCD and desire to stay at the head of the pack.
 

Xevren

Member
The reason people hated ToA wasnt because of the PvE, the reason people hated it, was because people that would only RvR had to do the PvE to compete in RvR. The actual PvE content in ToA was actually pretty well thought out, and could be a lot of fun (I know a lot of people who loved it), but when people who normally spent all their time out in RvR now had to do a long series of quests that would often require significantly more people than their normal Gank Group and then get lucky with some special drops, AND THEN spend a lot of time leveling up the weapons fighting usually a bunch of a certain mob.


It all just added up to them doing a bunch of stuff they never wanted to do, but they HAD to do it, because there was a few artifacts that had amazing abilties that if you didnt have in RvR you would lose to people that had them.

Having to get the items, and then level them sucked so much balls. It was never fun having to farm the mad tales scrolls for f'n ever. ToA was my personal hell.
 

Burt

Member
Over $600,000 already, not bad. Only 7/15 islands left.

It's okay. Most other big gaming Kickstarters, with the exception of Shadowrun Online which needed an enormous push in the last two days, nabbed at least half their target goal in the first two days and oftentimes a whole lot more.

I think they made some mistakes in planning this, like launching it three days before the Torment Kickstarter wraps up and four before the end of Garriot's project, which'll both have people who've been holding out throwing their money into them at the last minute. Their video was in all honesty pretty bland too. MJ was just "telling" when he should've been "selling". They need to put out some feelers online, see what's holding people back, and address those issues asap in some updates to build some more momentum.
 

Burt

Member
Pardon the double post, but figured I should bump the thread with the day 1 updates.

There were 4 updates today, and I just found out about all of them because unlike every other gaming Kickstarter in existence, CSE doesn't feel the need to put them on their homepage and instead hides them under the "Updates" tab, which I hadn't ever noticed before despite this being my fourth Kickstarter because everyone else puts them on their homepage ARE YOU LISTENING MARK JACOBS.

Sorry for the circularish rant.

Anyway, 4 updates.

First 2 are pretty nothing, a "thank you" and a schedule for the day.

Third one has a small tech demo showcasing their in-house engine running 10,000 copies of a model on screen at once with a silky smooth framerate.

Why they didn't show that on opening day makes me feel a little

Marty-McFly.gif


Fourth talks about FP add-ons. So, If you want a 100 FP suit of unique armor but your pledge tier only gives 50 FP, you'll be able to buy the remaining 50 without having to shell out as much as you would upgrading your tier. The add-on tiers, as of now:

$10 – Receive an additional 10 FPs
$25 – Receive an additional 30 FPs
$50 – Receive an additional 70 FPs
 
Does the cash generated by the FP addon purchases go towards the Kickstarter? 'Cuz its looking like it'll need all the help it can get.
 
"Does the cash generated by the FP addon purchases go towards the Kickstarter? 'Cuz its looking like it'll need all the help it can get."



????


The kickstarter is progressing at a really good clip, it'd have to have a very significant drop off to not hit 2 million.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
A pure PVP game, especially one that has a crafting system and a building system, is extremely risky.
No more risky than another derivative MMO. At least they have a novelty to set them apart from the crowd, if they play their cards right.

Man, I need a Mount&Blade-like MMORPG where everybody, from the random peasant, to the bandit, to the nation lords and king, is a player.

Peasant would be what everyone starts as, doing insignificant tasks like hunting while they build their skills and know how enough to either join a band or take up arms in a mission or military campaign started by a noble.
 

BrettWeir

Member
I pray to every imaginable god that Mark learned a huge lesson with ToA.

Also.....hoping for rebirth of the Minstrel!!!
 
The kickstarter is progressing at a really good clip, it'd have to have a very significant drop off to not hit 2 million.

Doesn't the rate usually drop significantly after the first three days, though? Except for the last day of course.

As much as I want this to happen and be as great as the original, that subscription model keeps me from chipping in. Can see it alienating a number of potential backers.
 
"Doesn't the rate usually drop significantly after the first three days, though? Except for the last day of course. "


I mean more significantly than usual. Being almost half of the way in under a week isn't bad at all. I imagine a lot of potential backers haven't chipped in yet because there's been no actual gameplay footage/ingame screenshots and what not.
 

cripterion

Member
So if there's no PvE, means there are no monsters to design, meaning exclusive attention to detail on player characters and increased customisation to avoid that clone feeling am I right?

The game seems like a gamble but hell, why not. Could work. It's definitely my kind of game but need more info on the races, the classes and game mechanics.
 
I've chimed in on this before, but I feel like Marc Jacobs had his chance and blew it. I'm pretty sure there are more DAoC members working on ESO than this anyway.
 
"Does the cash generated by the FP addon purchases go towards the Kickstarter? 'Cuz its looking like it'll need all the help it can get."



????


The kickstarter is progressing at a really good clip, it'd have to have a very significant drop off to not hit 2 million.

I hope so. I really want this game to happen and feel its slowed down so much after the initial day.
 

BrettWeir

Member
I've chimed in on this before, but I feel like Marc Jacobs had his chance and blew it. I'm pretty sure there are more DAoC members working on ESO than this anyway.

I'm thinking the complete opposite. I'm hoping he took what blown chances he had, and has learned from them and makes an incredible follow-up to DAoC.
 
A kickstarter for a MMO? That sounds like a poor idea. The development and infrastructure costs would seem to put this way beyond the scope of crowdsourcing.
 

Effect

Member
A kickstarter for a MMO? That sounds like a poor idea. The development and infrastructure costs would seem to put this way beyond the scope of crowdsourcing.

Well the scale shouldn't to vast I think. If they're focusing on RvR then you'll be dealing with a lot of repeated assets depending on the location. No PvE means no need to deal with monsters or any spawning or AI systems that they require and perhaps just random animals you kill to get materials for crafting. Each side should have one main city if it's like Dark Age of Camelot. The villages outside of that in that game were just a few houses grouped together. NPCs didn't move around either. They stayed in place and the same could be done here. No voice acting of course.

If you have the right engine ready to go it might be doable to kickstart it and then add more as time goes on. They need to get across that the game could potentially be very bare bones though at the start if their goal is simply 2 million. Dark Age of Camelot, originally, was quite simple in it's design layout from what I remember. They should know what kind of hardware on the backend is needed based on past experience.
 

wildfire

Banned
A kickstarter for a MMO? That sounds like a poor idea. The development and infrastructure costs would seem to put this way beyond the scope of crowdsourcing.

I agree. Fortunately he took out one of the biggest costs which is PVE. It's still not enough but atleast this project moved from impossible funding target to improbable.

I think he's underselling the cost but I also don't know if he is getting funding from different sources.
 

BrettWeir

Member
After what happened with WAR, I am going to be extremely hesitant to put money into this.

I wouldn't even have that as a factor. Mythic had a TON of limitations set on them by both EA and Games Workshop.

Although, I'm not much of one to speak....After the ToA and Warhammer debacles, I created my Steam account. My user name is "MarkJacobsSucks"......
 

Decado

Member
Shocking. Figured the last thing we needed was yet another MMO. Looks like it will be funded easily, though.
 

Vinci

Danish
I wouldn't even have that as a factor. Mythic had a TON of limitations set on them by both EA and Games Workshop.

What I have as a factor are conversations Mark Jacobs had online around the time in which he seemed to fundamentally misunderstand what was wrong with the game.
 
I agree. Fortunately he took out one of the biggest costs which is PVE. It's still not enough but atleast this project moved from impossible funding target to improbable.

I think he's underselling the cost but I also don't know if he is getting funding from different sources.

There is a video update where he talks about additional two million dollars out of his own pocket as well as another million from an unnamed source that are allegedly going to be added to the kickstarter funds if they reach the initial two million goal.

Considering the scope of the game, five million dollar sound about right to me. Don't forget there are "only" an unknown number of RvR zones, a few safe zones/housing zones as well as a capital for each realm and there is "only" crafting, housing and RvR to be done.

Who knows, though. They are trying to build a custom engine and might have to create their own tools as well. Maybe it's not enough.


I think I am going to watch both Camelot Unchained and Elder Scrolls Online from a safe distance and see how they both turn out before I spend money on any of these supposed DAoC revivals.
 

Jac_Solar

Member
No more risky than another derivative MMO. At least they have a novelty to set them apart from the crowd, if they play their cards right.

Man, I need a Mount&Blade-like MMORPG where everybody, from the random peasant, to the bandit, to the nation lords and king, is a player.

Peasant would be what everyone starts as, doing insignificant tasks like hunting while they build their skills and know how enough to either join a band or take up arms in a mission or military campaign started by a noble.

Yeah, even though I don't like PvP, I certainly respect this project, since it does not seem like it's a grab for money or anything -- it seems more like the opposite of a mainstream, or streamlined for the masses project.

But I do think it's more risky than even a derivative project. These elements rely heavily on a large, consistent player base.

Other games have PvE for the early stages, since it helps players get established, get to know the world, and to gradually get more familiar with the mechanics -- and most importantly, to maintain their interest long enough for them to get to know other players and form bonds.

PvE also rewards players consistently -- players can easily get new equipment by doing quests whenever, without relying on other people. It also incentivizes exploration -- they can go to a new town and get new quests, etc.

a PvP only system means you have 1 type of opponent, most likely in one, or a few establishments. There's probably no reason to go anywhere unless there's a raid, or skirmish happening. Most players will probably just stick to the first town -- at least until they form a guild/group, and are powerful enough to have their own establishment or town. Not sure if the game supports that though.

There could be stuff to do spread around the world, like NPC's needing help with whatever, but I'm not sure how that would work out with PvP only. Players could just go at a time when there are few players and get whatever rewards there are easily.

I assume this game will work like this; players enter the world, and go to a town where they can meet people. They will then form guilds, teams for a few-player skirmishes to huge raids (I assume it will have both.). But will there always be enough players to warrant a skirmish, or a raid? Where will the components for buildings and crafting come from?

Since there's probably little else to do when you first start out, the only thing you can do is hang around town and hope to find a team or a group of people that you can join. There might be mini-games or something for the crafting systems I suppose.

Unless the layouts and character setup is very simplified, battles might be a bit awkward as well. But there could be training stations or something similar in the towns.

The server setup for this game makes it sound like it's possible that there will always be several players in the world.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
They'll probably make easy jump in to battle options similar to mmofps games like planetside 2, gathering all such players to where there are actual conflicts happpening, to avoid forced dontime. As well as wow battlegrounds type skirmishes that don't affect the world at large but still provide the gameplay.
 

Burt

Member
Well the scale shouldn't to vast I think. If they're focusing on RvR then you'll be dealing with a lot of repeated assets depending on the location. No PvE means no need to deal with monsters or any spawning or AI systems that they require and perhaps just random animals you kill to get materials for crafting. Each side should have one main city if it's like Dark Age of Camelot. The villages outside of that in that game were just a few houses grouped together. NPCs didn't move around either. They stayed in place and the same could be done here. No voice acting of course.

I think the most significant cost reduction will be from the lack of quests and dungeons. Think about how much coding, flavor text, pathing/quest flow, and environmental design are required by the thousands of quests in every PvE-oriented MMO, and the same goes for dungeons. The real shame of it is that most of this stuff gets either ignored or run through a single time.

In a nutshell, all CSE (I accidentally typed Mythic :/) has to do is make satisfying combat, a rewarding crafting system, balanced classes, an interesting environment, and self-perpetuating overarching realm/resource control systems. It's no small task, but as a systems-based MMO it's also far, far, less than anything required by a content-based MMO.

On how the Kickstarter is faring, I do have to say that I just typed up a 3000ish word email to CSE (I have no idea how MJ got me so wrapped up again, already) about how I think their Kickstarter is going, and it included this:

The Camelot Unchained Kickstarter is not progressing ideally. You should bring in about $100k today, putting you at $800k total in 3 days, 40% of your overall goal. Let’s compare this to other major gaming Kickstarters at their 3-day point:

Double Fine Adventure: $1.504 million (376%)
Torment: Tides of Numenara: $2.2 million (220%)
Shadowrun Returns: $611k (152%)
Wasteland 2: $1.2 million (124%)
Shroud of the Avatar: $680k (68%)
Camelot Unchained: $800k (40%)
Shadowrun Online: $85K (17%)

As you can see, even though you’re running middle of the pack in absolute terms, the only game that’s done worse as a percentage of their funding goal is Shadowrun Online, which ended up needing a massive (and some would say shady) 2-day push to pick up the $150k it was short. If Camelot Unchained picks up an average of $40k a day from day 4 on, which is realistically the absolute best you can expect (pre-emergency campaign-end marketing push) judging from other gaming Kickstarters, you’ll be in the $150k-deficit range. If CU picks up $30k a day from day 4 on, a much more likely scenario, you’ll be short around $400k

I really think that this $2 million goal combined with a bland pitch video is going to bring it down to the wire. Hope I'm wrong because this game needs to happen. I'm trying to do my part.

Among many other things, they should look into whether they can implement some sort of referral program, giving FP to people who bring in more backers.

If anyone wants to see the email I wrote, PM me about it. I'd rather spread it around and talk about it than let it rot at the bottom of an inbox, but I think it's too long and probably not appropriate for the thread.
 

BrettWeir

Member
What I have as a factor are conversations Mark Jacobs had online around the time in which he seemed to fundamentally misunderstand what was wrong with the game.

I guess that makes sense. After all, he stood by ToA and Lab of the Minotaur....ugh.

I guess I'm blind in this (nostalgia goggles), since not a single game has even come close to having the same magic that DAoC did with RvR. I just want that again.
 
What I have as a factor are conversations Mark Jacobs had online around the time in which he seemed to fundamentally misunderstand what was wrong with the game.

His forum posts shortly before and after the Warhammer Online launch made me wonder how much of an influence he really had on DAoC's success. Yes, he was the lead designer of vanilla DAoC and nearly every expansion. He also was the lead designer of WAR and a lot of people (including himself IIRC) later claimed he had relatively little influence on many aspects of the game.

Maybe he just had great designers working for him. Maybe Matt Frior came up with all the good ideas for DAoC. I noticed the last project Matt worked on as a designer was Shrouded Isles, which coincidentally was the best time for DAoC.

What I am trying to get at is that it's impossible to tell from the outside and it can get quite frustrating to see people paint MJ as that one brilliant mind behind Dark Age of Camelot.
 

Burt

Member
His forum posts shortly before and after the Warhammer Online launch made me wonder how much of an influence he really had on DAoC's success. Yes, he was the lead designer of vanilla DAoC and nearly every expansion. He also was the lead designer of WAR and a lot of people (including himself IIRC) later claimed he had relatively little influence on many aspects of the game.

Maybe he just had great designers working for him. Maybe Matt Frior came up with all the good ideas for DAoC. I noticed the last project Matt worked on as a designer was Shrouded Isles, which coincidentally was the best time for DAoC.

What I am trying to get at is that it's impossible to tell from the outside and it can get quite frustrating to see people painting MJ as that one brilliant mind behind Dark Age of Camelot.

Can't argue with that, but hopefully him being there and designing vanilla means that he knows and has learned enough to recapture some of that magic. And after seeing EA butcher Bioware over the last couple years, I really can't blame him for WAR's ultimate failure, especially considering the very fun 12-18 months I had with it. Hopefully he learned some good stuff from that experience too.
 

Effect

Member
If this has to be RvR then leveling should be thrown out. Having leveling based on RvR is going to be a huge problem. Forget about adding new players after the initial wave. They will die instantly over and over again.
 

BrettWeir

Member
Looking back through the different kickstarter levels, some of the items make no sense at all. Who in their right mind would give $1700 to only receive 4 months free and 5% off monthly cost? It's no wonder that there are 0 backers in that category right now. Sure you get 30 copies of the game...which to me, is just ridiculous.

I guess the only reason would be for a group of people that want to get in on a group buy, but still, that puts each person at $56.66 and 29 of them only getting 1 free month.
 

Halcyon

Member
Bedlam Iseult representing!


I loved daoc for its highend rvr 8man beatsquading, and I also loved the battlegrounds.


Thid was awesome. I particularly enjoyed level 9 lions den as well.


I miss my squad. I miss my darkcarver cold debuff prenerf RM.
 

BrettWeir

Member
Bedlam Iseult representing!


I loved daoc for its highend rvr 8man beatsquading, and I also loved the battlegrounds.


Thid was awesome. I particularly enjoyed level 9 lions den as well.


I miss my squad. I miss my darkcarver cold debuff prenerf RM.

I honestly miss soloing on my Minstrel more than anything. Nothing better than charming a level 55 Frost Stallion.
 

Cipherr

Member
I guess I'm blind in this (nostalgia goggles), since not a single game has even come close to having the same magic that DAoC did with RvR. I just want that again.

I think most backers do. I don't really believe that many are trying to put the awesomeness of DAoC and Shrouded Isles purely on MJacobs back.

I just happen to want something similar. A new MMO that places its priorities in the same places DAoC did as opposed to the places that games like WoW prioritize.

Im willing to kickstart this game solely on the hopes that its able to deliver. Even if Mark Jacobs wasn't involved I would be on board for this.
 

pr0cs

Member
I may have missed it, have they said anything about addressing population imbalances right off the bat?
Otherwise this will fail like DAOC did.
 

Effect

Member
I know I've been down on this but I really do hope this succeeds as well. I would love to recapture that magic that was DAoC but I'm not sure focusing on just one aspect that made DAoC good will do it. Also I think for a LOT of people around this era, DAoC, not Everquest, Ultima Online, or Asheron's Call was their first MMORPG or their first full investment in one. It might be impossible to recapture that feeling anyway.

I actually like what WAR was attempting on the RvR side. Having your actions move a scale in favor of one side or another. Then again I really wish WAR could have been turned around because I saw a lot of promise in it.
 
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