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[BrettWeir]

I know I've been done on this but I really do hope this succeeds as well. I would love to recapture that magic that was DAoC but I'm not sure focusing on just one aspect that made DAoC good will do it. Also I think for a LOT of people around this era, DAoC, not Everquest, Ultima Online, or Asheron's Call was their first MMORPG or their first full investment in one. It might be impossible to recapture that feeling anyway.

I actually like what WAR was attempting on the RvR side. Having your actions move a scale in favor of one side or another. Then again I really wish WAR could have been turned around because I saw a lot of promise in it.

This was the case for me. DAoC was my first MMO. Stayed with it for years until they got rid of Classic servers. Pure magic.

Since then, nothing has been able to replicate that feeling. Sure CU won't exactly replace that feeling, but it's the first game to come along that understands not only how important it is to have 3 realm combat, but also not to have mirrored classes.

I had such high hopes in Guild Wars 2 and its WvW, to be entirely letdown. It's awful. Well, compared to DAoC, it's awful.

 

[Burt]

I know I've been done on this but I really do hope this succeeds as well. I would love to recapture that magic that was DAoC but I'm not sure focusing on just one aspect that made DAoC good will do it. Also I think for a LOT of people around this era, DAoC, not Everquest, Ultima Online, or Asheron's Call was their first MMORPG or their first full investment in one. It might be impossible to recapture that feeling anyway.

I actually like what WAR was attempting on the RvR side. Having your actions move a scale in favor of one side or another. Then again I really wish WAR could have been turned around because I saw a lot of promise in it.

WAR definitely had a lot of promise, but it got hamstrung by some built in design flaws. Linear RvR zones and zone progression, a system that incentivized BO musical chairs, city instances with low player counts, no real reward to RvR except for a shitty drop system that was confined to said city instances, little reward for holding fortresses, and so on and so forth. They'll need to avoid all of those pitfalls if they want to hold the playerbase's attention for any significant amount of time.

Also, don't let classes rot for months and years without rebalancing/buffs. I remember getting disappointed at every patch for a year as my Shadow Warrior went untouched... even as videos of DoK's beating them at range were circling the internet.

 

[Krafter]

My wife and I played the shit out of DAOC (and Warhammer Online too, for that matter.) My first MMO that I played past a few weeks, and the one that we had put the most time into. We are both down for this, day one, should it come to fruition.

 

[BrettWeir]

WTB Kobolds and Lurikeens. Inconnu can rot.

Is there a limitation on time for a Kickstarter? I mean...why don't they give us 2 months for the 2 million?

 

[Burt]

Good God, Mark Jacobs already emailed me back personally, with a very decent sized reply. Jesus Christ, that's like... far above anything I actually hoped for or expected, especially in that time frame. The man cares.

Should I up my pledge?

I should up my pledge.

Also, some good stuff coming in the next few days.

 

[MoonLightWave]

That's nice to hear.

 

[BrettWeir]

Good God, Mark Jacobs already emailed me back personally, with a very decent sized reply. Jesus Christ, that's like... far above anything I actually hoped for or expected, especially in that time frame. The man cares.

Should I up my pledge?

I should up my pledge.

Also, some good stuff coming in the next few days.

Great to hear!!! Any key excerpts you care to share?

Did you watch the new video? I just got the email a couple minutes ago.

Web based UI? Holy shit!!!!

Ohhh....forgot. I figured I would leave this here. Apparently the whole Mythic......errr, I mean CSE......posts quite a bit here as well:
http://www.reddit.com/r/CamelotUnchained/

 

[Xevren]

Bedlam Iseult representing!


I loved daoc for its highend rvr 8man beatsquading, and I also loved the battlegrounds.


Thid was awesome. I particularly enjoyed level 9 lions den as well.


I miss my squad. I miss my darkcarver cold debuff prenerf RM.

I remember Bedlam! I played on Hib there for a wee bit.

 

[KaYotiX]

Oh wow, my brother will LOVE this. He still plays DAoC I think LOL.

Wife and I played this for a good 3 years also. I hope it turns out well, some of my best memories in MMOs are from DAoC.

 

[Burt]

Great to hear!!! Any key excerpts you care to share?

Did you watch the new video? I just got the email a couple minutes ago.

Web based UI? Holy shit!!!!

Ohhh....forgot. I figured I would leave this here. Apparently the whole Mythic......errr, I mean CSE......posts quite a bit here as well:
http://www.reddit.com/r/CamelotUnchained/

Meh, think I should let them run announcements and the Kickstarter how they want, so if it's not out there, it's not out there. Gotta keep those eyes on the page.

The web based UI sounds absolutely awesome. As great as custom skins, forms, and complete access from any web browser, the tools people will be able to build sound pretty revolutionary. Heat maps? Seeing the gear of the people who killed you? Having a nearly exact representation of builds and their distribution throughout the population and whatever other crazy stuff people can think of? That shit is bananas.

b a n a n a s

 

[Jarnet87]

Bold to be going subscription based, especially for a game so far away.

 

[codecow]

I donated because I like PvP MMOs however the tech demo was quite puzzling. Best of luck to them!

Edit: When I got the backer notice, I saw they called their company City State, haha. http://www.develop-online.net/news/37438/Gibeau-City-state-studios-saved-EA

 

[BrettWeir]

Bold to be going subscription based, especially for a game so far away.

I thought the exact same thing. Which is why I saw the $250 option with the lifetime sub (3 year sub, with $1 per YEAR after that), Alpha/Beta access, and a digital copy of the game, I would be insane to pass that up. No idea if it will be $14.95/mo, but at that rate, that's $180/year. Even at $12.95/mo, it's $155/year. I'm stealing the game at $250.

 

[Burt]

Update 6: Tuatha De Dannan Concept art and first in-game models and animation

In-game model:

Looks damn good to me. Can't wait to see my Vikings tomorrow or the day after.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

So glad to see a character model. The model is not impressive on its own until you consider that the engine is supposed to be able to handle hundreds (thousands?) of those models on screen at once without severe performance degradation.

If we can get these small updates each day I'll feel better about the game hitting its goal. They really need to make a Facebook page. Its kinda mind boggling that they haven't already. Bigger presence in social media can only help awareness and funding.

 

[Burt]

So glad to see a character model. The model is not impressive on its own until you consider that the engine is supposed to be able to handle hundreds (thousands?) of those models on screen at once without severe performance degradation.

If we can get these small updates each day I'll feel better about the game hitting its goal. They really need to make a Facebook page. Its kinda mind boggling that they haven't already. Bigger presence in social media can only help awareness and funding.

Yeah, I was thinking pretty much the exact same thing. The model isn't ridiculously detailed or anything, but it's distinct, visually appealing, and more than detailed enough to serve as an adequate avatar, even in 2015 I'm sure. Compound that with the fact that the engine can theoretically support 10,000 of these models on screen at once (per what Andrew said during the tech demo) and I'm very happy.

I think the lack of social media presence is due to their small team size and focus on serving the people on their Kickstarter page. They're in there answering questions at least every half hour. I've never seen facebook as a super-effective marketing tool anyway, but I do think they need to get more active and personable on Twitter, instead of just tweeting out their updates.

 

[MoonLightWave]

http://citystateentertainment.tumblr.com/ There is a tumblr, if that's your thing.

 

[RaySpencer]

I love that first TDD model, looks awesome especially for an MMO. It really reminds me of an evolution of the Shar too, haha. I hope TDD get Sylvans as well, and something similar to the ValeWalker, I loved my Sylvan VW. haha

 

[MoonLightWave]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/posts/446979

Viking Update.

Edit:TDD version

 

[Sentenza]

Update 6: Tuatha De Dannan Concept art and first in-game models and animation

In-game model: .

Not a big fan of this style, but beside that it already looks far better than I was expecting from this budget.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/posts/446979

Viking Update.

This... Is actually much better for my taste.
I guess I will (eventually) go back to Midgard.

 

[MoonLightWave]

This... Is actually much better for my taste.
I guess I will (eventually) go back to Midgard.

Yeah, I prefer the Vikings more aswell. Hopefully we get to see the last race next update.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

The guy's head seems way too small.

 

[espher]

Where the Kickstarter progress is concerned, I have about 25 people in my group of ex-DAoC players who are still trying to decide what tier we're in for. The vibe I get from them is other people they know (that I don't) are kind of in the same boat. I see this getting a pretty large mid-to-late push as people make up their minds.

I can't decide if I'm in for $250 digital or if I want to go for a physical reward tier... if I had the money, I would be all over $5k for an inn.

 

[Parfait]

I never got to play the original DAOC, heard a lot of amazing things about it, and i'd be interested in this a lot..

But I'm not interested in a sub fee for a pvp only game when pvp is a great source of fustration whenever i play a mmo. Even though B2P was a huge factor in getting GW2, the PVE in it is one of the strongest points in that game for me.

 

[Dinosaur Tamer]

Really not too fond of the art they showed during the last few days. That female viking model looks fine to me. I actually think it looks pretty good for the amount of characters that are supposed to be on screen and the budget. Her concept art is quite nice as well, but I really don't like any of the other Viking concepts and I really dislike the TDD concepts. Looks far too much like WAR and not enough like DAoC. I would prefer them to at least keep the armor somewhat pseudo-realistic.

I guess they want to distance themselves from the original game much more than I thought they would.

 

[Burt]

Love that Viking art and model. The feathers, the thick braid, the palette, everything. Funny thing is that I actually like the design of every other figure in the concept art more. My decision to go Viking remains unchanged.

I hope at some point they take that tech demo from update 2 and fill it with CU models like this and the TDD. That'd be something to see. I'm assuming that's the sort of thing MJ was talking about in the update, but no way to know for sure.

I guess they want to distance themselves from the original game much more than I thought they would.

Despite the game's name, MJ has said that he wants people to understand that this isn't DAOC2 and he isn't trying to make DAOC2. He's even said that this game isn't a spiritual successor to DAOC and he doesn't want to get people's hopes up thinking it is. Yeah, that's kind of like if James Cameron made a new movie called "Termination: Machine Wars" and said it had nothing to do with the Terminator franchise, but it is what it is.

 

[BrettWeir]

Where the Kickstarter progress is concerned, I have about 25 people in my group of ex-DAoC players who are still trying to decide what tier we're in for. The vibe I get from them is other people they know (that I don't) are kind of in the same boat. I see this getting a pretty large mid-to-late push as people make up their minds.

I can't decide if I'm in for $250 digital or if I want to go for a physical reward tier... if I had the money, I would be all over $5k for an inn.

Do you mean the physical $250? I keep looking at it, and I just don't see how Founder's Trophy, Founder's Dyes, a digital art book, and special thanks in game is worth more than a lifetime sub. I guess different strokes for different folks.

And I absolutely HATE the TDD model. I seriously reminds me of Warhammer /shudder. The viking is great though.

 

[BrettWeir]

Sorry for the double, but love today's update
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...mail&show_token=e095082d713b8b17&play=1#video

 

[MoonLightWave]

No global cooldown confirmed in the latest update.

 

[RaySpencer]

Its nice to see their thoughts on Stealth reflect mine, in that they want it in there, but not as a magical on off invisible switch.


Nearly at 1 million now, and a little over 3 weeks to get the other million. I will be so fucking pissed if this doesnt get funded. haha.

 

[Effect]

Interesting that Mark Jacobs is acknowledging that things would be going better for the kickstarter if there was at least some PvE. I really think the lack of it will be the reason this possibly doesn't get funded. It didn't need to be much but some PvE. I still feel leveling based on PvP is a bad idea and will kill any growth for the game once the inital wave has leveled up and people start laying in wait specifically for low level players. It always happens.

 

[RaySpencer]

Interesting that Mark Jacobs is acknowledging that things would be going better for the kickstarter if there was at least some PvE. I really think the lack of it will be the reason this possibly doesn't get funded.

It would fund quicker, but it would also make the game cost way more, and take way longer to get made, not to mention it would make it harder to balance, and harder to decide on what classes do what. It would basically homogenize the whole game in turn it into every other MMO out there.

 

[zashga]

If it's pure PvP, why have player levels and gear disparity at all? I hate competitive games with an uneven playing field. Grind to win is equally unpalatable as pay to win.

 

[Hawkian]

If it's pure PvP, why have player levels and gear disparity at all? I hate competitive games with an uneven playing field. Grind to win is equally unpalatable as pay to win.

I think the idea of a PvP-only MMO is totally fascinating, but this is definitely a delicate issue. How do you prevent new players from getting turned off by the constant ganking by unscrupulous veterans?

Then against, it is an MMORPG if there is no avenue for character progression? The idea of a level playing field out of the box is really appealing too but you're back to a balancing act.

Still this looks great, especially to see how these questions get answered and what kind of meta evolves once the RvR gets into the players' hands. Pity that I don't really like the artstyle as rendered (seems surprisingly cartoonish), and the subscription fee will keep me from playing, but I'll be watching closely.

 

[Effect]

It would fund quicker, but it would also make the game cost way more, and take way longer to get made.

True but I think it also depends on how big of a focus they make it. Something, anything might be better then nothing at all.

I'm at a lost really. They want to recapture the RvR feel from Dark Age of Camelot but without any of the structure surrounding it that actually made it viable. I don't see how that works with level and possibly item based PvP and no PvE at all. If there were no levels of any kinda and people picked from different equipment sets based on class then that would be something else. It would then just be about the combat and capturing areas, etc. I don't see how this works out well in practice.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Including real substantive PvE would just cause a lot of problems later on. The entire point of the game's design is that it is intentionally narrow and serves a particular niche of MMO gamers only. If you broaden that too much-and PvE content would do that-then you are trying to cater to a fragmented user base with competing interests and the whole thing goes to shit.

 

[Dinosaur Tamer]

I still feel leveling based on PvP is a bad idea and will kill any growth for the game once the inital wave has leveled up and people start laying in wait specifically for low level players. It always happens.

They didn't even talk about how progression is going to work. Maybe there are no levels or there are tiered zones that prevent this.

If it's pure PvP, why have player levels and gear disparity at all? I hate competitive games with an uneven playing field. Grind to win is equally unpalatable as pay to win.

Again, I don't think they revealed any details regarding gear or levels yet.

Don't expect them to handle gear like WoW or the majority of post-WoW MMORPGs handled gear, but rather like early DAoC handled it.
From what we know so far, I expect gear to be one of the very few gold sinks next to buying siege equipment and something that you need crafter for. One of the update videos revealed there won't even be item drops from mobs so there should not be any other way to get it. The game needs some gold sinks to prevent inflation and completely spammable siege weapons.

 

[Burt]

If it's pure PvP, why have player levels and gear disparity at all? I hate competitive games with an uneven playing field. Grind to win is equally unpalatable as pay to win.

I would imagine that gear is there to add statiscal customization to your character. For instance, a plate-wearer might want a lot of strength on his gear, a lot of health on his gear, or a mix between the two. In a game without levels (which I'm certainly a fan of in a PvP-oriented game) gear would be the differentiator between you and other people in your class. There would still be people geared with aims similar to your own, but it's better to allow for a class to have a range of gear options rather than just one. I wouldnt like a scenario where everyone in a class is an absolute statistical equivalent, but diversity through a different but equal distribution of stats is fine. Another reason, presumably, would be that zone/resource control would enable you to gather materials for superior (although not THAT superior) gear, thus providing purpose and incentive for PvP/RvR other than simply fighting or realm pride.

The real question is whether or not gear is going to break. Has anyone seen anything on that yet? I would imagine it would to ensure that crafters always have a vital role to play beyond just siege equipment, but I can't remember seeing anything definite.

 

[Hawkian]

Including real substantive PvE would just cause a lot of problems later on. The entire point of the game's design is that it is intentionally narrow and serves a particular niche of MMO gamers only. If you broaden that too much-and PvE content would do that-then you are trying to cater to a fragmented user base with competing interests and the whole thing goes to shit.

It's a very tough needle to thread. I firmly believe that sticking to a strict PvP-only gameplay equation would be a key market differentiator for this game.

While it's good of the team to acknowledge the theoretical demand for it and all this to drive design, I think attempting to add in some shoehorned facsimile of PvE toward that end would be a mistake.

 

[RaySpencer]

True but I think it also depends on how big of a focus they make it. Something, anything might be better then nothing at all.

I'm at a lost really. They want to recapture the RvR feel from Dark Age of Camelot but without any of the structure surrounding it that actually made it viable. I don't see how that works with level and possibly item based PvP and no PvE at all. If there were no levels of any kind and people picked from different equipment sets based on class then that would be something else. It would then just be about the combat and capturing areas, etc. I don't see how this works out well in practice.

I dont know, the structure that made it viable was, everyone got to 50, then got crafted gear, 99% stuff for most people, and 100% stuff if they had the plat, then you just gemed it how you wanted it, slapped your guild colours on it and went off to join the zerg.


Im sure they will have something like DF in this, except what you will get will be access to rare materials for crafting better weapons/armour. Im also sure they will have relic bonuses they will just be different than they were in DAoC.


Im just really happy they wont cave on not having PvE, cause im kind of sick of leveling just to get to what I really want to do, and if I want to go level something sometime there is a bunch of other MMOs that do it, and frankly probably do it better.

 

[BrettWeir]

Looks as if pledges are dropping off quite a bit. I really, really hope there's some sort of end of the line push by backers.

As for crafting etc, if it's anything at all like DAoC's, I'll be happy as hell. I can't imagine how many hours I spent in third party Template makers (ah, good old Kort's). It was the last MMO I can think of that allowed for each and every person to have whatever stats they wanted. With stat hardcaps in place, it made spellcrafting/template making a blast. I had a new set of armor easily once a month.

I also mean to ask a while ago.....so what do they mean when they say "Our project has been backed by those fine folks at Obsidian! Thank you so very, very much!"

 

[Outdoor Miner]

I was worried about it not funding but after researching similar Kickstarters we aren't even close to the danger zone. Once we hit $1M they'll reveal more along with the stretch goals. As we near the deadline there is a push almost as big as the 1st day. It just needs to average about $40k a day for success.

 

[Xevren]

Looks as if pledges are dropping off quite a bit. I really, really hope there's some sort of end of the line push by backers.

As for crafting etc, if it's anything at all like DAoC's, I'll be happy as hell. I can't imagine how many hours I spent in third party Template makers (ah, good old Kort's). It was the last MMO I can think of that allowed for each and every person to have whatever stats they wanted. With stat hardcaps in place, it made spellcrafting/template making a blast. I had a new set of armor easily once a month.

I also mean to ask a while ago.....so what do they mean when they say "Our project has been backed by those fine folks at Obsidian! Thank you so very, very much!"

You really liked the crafting? Now I've heard everything. I don't miss the days of going for mp gear at all.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

They're aiming to make the crafting in this game as deeper than any MMO before. They will be a unique non-combat class that will have their own leveling track that takes about equal time to that of the combat-adventuring class. The combat classes will be able to do basis crafting in the 1st tier only. So what the dedicated crafters create will be in demand always.

I myself am toying with the idea of going the crafting route as a main. The thought of teaming up with other crafters to build castles, towns, siege machinery, and epic weapons and armor sounds like a blast.

 

[BrettWeir]

You really liked the crafting? Now I've heard everything. I don't miss the days of going for mp gear at all.

I absolutely loved it. MP gear? pffft. Forget that mess. 99% was worth it.

 

[RaySpencer]

You really liked the crafting? Now I've heard everything. I don't miss the days of going for mp gear at all.

The crafting wasnt the greatest, it wasnt like Star Wars Galaxies or something, but it was still really awesome having a bunch of people sitting around a forge chatting together and working on making 100% gear for some big spender. It was certainly more fun than any crafting in any popular MMOs recently.


Crafting had meaning, which made it awesome.

I absolutely loved it. MP gear? pffft. Forget that mess. 99% was worth it.

I had a friend who was one of the best crafters on Alb Nimue, played for years with the guy, he just gave me a full set of MP plate, and spell crafted it for me too, it was awesome.

 

[Xevren]

The crafting wasnt the greatest, it wasnt like Star Wars Galaxies or something, but it was still really awesome having a bunch of people sitting around a forge chatting together and working on making 100% gear for some big spender. It was certainly more fun than any crafting in any popular MMOs recently.


Crafting had meaning, which made it awesome.


I had a friend who was one of the best crafters on Alb Nimue, played for years with the guy, he just gave me a full set of MP plate, and spell crafted it for me too, it was awesome.

I played for a long ass time, and sat around many different crafting places and very rarely did I ever even see anyone talk. I must have been playing on the wrong servers.

 

[BrettWeir]

I played for a long ass time, and sat around many different crafting places and very rarely did I ever even see anyone talk. I must have been playing on the wrong servers.

Yeah. I only crafted in my house. Very rarely did I go into a city to craft.

And yes, crafting in newer MMOs is terrible. Maybe DAoC spoiled me on what to expect from crafting (since it was my first MMO). I had such high hopes for GW2 crafting, but what a letdown. GW2 also represents what I hate most in crafting in MMOs today. Create armor/weapons with certain stats, and that's all you get. That's why I loved DAoC's. Every crafted piece of armor/weapon was a blank slate for you to do whatever with.

Come to think of it, DAoC spoiled all MMO's for me, since I have yet to find one that even rivals the fun I had with DAoC. All HUGE letdowns.

 

[RaySpencer]

I played for a long ass time, and sat around many different crafting places and very rarely did I ever even see anyone talk. I must have been playing on the wrong servers.

Hmm. maybe Nimue was pretty small, and I think it was an RP server. Ive never been a big RPer, but ive always found the best communities on those servers.

Pre SI we always had a group of 5-10 of us chatting in the city on bad RvR days, or out at the keep for the good materials on good days. Even when SI came out we would all be out at the town near the portal (I feel bad forgetting the names of everything now, but its been so long! haha). Everything was ruined when houses came out though, haha.

 

[Burt]

Hopefully the dedicated crafter class will be a major role in RvR. I like crafting just fine, but construction in the field really seems like something that'll set CU and it's crafting apart. They're gonna have to figure out some way to make a raid need more than just 1 or 2 crafters per.

As for the gear-crafting part of crafting, I obviously don't know how it's going to work exactly, but as long as the economy is based entirely on crafters' output, it should be easy to make crafting feeling like a substantial and important part of the game.