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[Elog]

Honestly, I think the full resolution videos released after the Sony event are insane in their graphics. Not sure what the complaints are about. Let's see what the MS event will look like.

 

[SmoothNinja]

Rachet was a clear indicator of what's possible with the SSD but then again didn't the medium show a similar advancement? I dont think I've heard any Playstation fan argue that the Xbox Series X will be the more powerful console. Higher FPS... BETTER RESOLUTION ETC. Im sure there are those that believe the Playstation is more powerful regardless

 

[HarryKS]

Rachet was a clear indicator of what's possible with the SSD but then again didn't the medium show a similar advancement? I dont think I've heard any Playstation fan argue that the Xbox Series X will be the more powerful console. Higher FPS... BETTER RESOLUTION ETC. Im sure there are those that believe the Playstation is more powerful regardless

Comparing Medium to that slice of Ratchet and Clank is plain stupid.

Watch it., again, for edification.





The level of sophistication in terms of animation, lighting and physics is worlds apart. You can't compare a budget game like Medium to that Ratchet and Clank slice.

 

[SmoothNinja]

Comparing Medium to that slice of Ratchet and Clank is plain stupid.

Watch it., again, for edification.





The level of sophistication in terms of animation, lighting and physics is worlds apart. You can't compare a budget game like Medium to that Ratchet and Clank slice.

Absolutely no one said it was on the same LEVEL whatsoever. Jump to conclusions why don't you. But the SSD was on display here in the Medium. Its the only game on Xbox that did so. It was a clear advancement not possible in the current generation.

 

[Flashy Wizard]

Studios will need time to flesh out their engines which have been revamped and in some cases completely overhauled to accommodate the new consoles. I was impressed by the smaller studios’ showcasing their talent and those dynamic shadows in certain games looked amazing!!

 

[OneShotThrill]

Imagine being an Xbox Fanboy and trying to call out SONY Fanboys for believing in PR hype. Y'all been swinging off Phil Spencers nuts for years and STILL PRAYING for a big turnaround. Talk about the blind leading the blind. Let's see what MS and Sony actually does this generation before running your mouths.

 

[TigerKnee]

Aw poor MS with their huge market cap and money and marketing... Is big bad Sony picking on you....?

Come on man - a few weeks ago ms had their Xsex game play reveal with no gameplay, no 1st party exclusives and none of it running on Xsex.

Whatever next? Blame Sony for MS chopping their first party and having no games?

MS failures in the gaming sector are all made by MS, no one else.

Truth hurt? What he said isn't wrong. This is coming from someone that is getting both systems at launch. It's fine to like a company. But hold them accountable for the BS they spew.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

"Can we now agree"

Oh baby....

 

[aerts1js]

The graphics were insane; ratchet and horizon definitely not possible this gen.

 

[GlassAwful]

What I saw was one game, R&C, attempt to provide justification for the SDD and then absolutely nothing else.

And what R&C is doing is sort of a gimmicky gameplay element that was getting old by the end of the trailer. It was disorienting honestly so how many games are actually going to be doing something like this??

Outside of something that needs to change the scene instantly, there appears to be no use of the SSD, because graphically I saw nothing that wasn't achievable by a mid range graphics card.

 

[TigerKnee]

Here’s a loading screen identification refresher for you.

Yeah because a backwards compatible game, not a game built from the ground up for Series X, is the benchmark for the Series X SSD performance...

 

[Trueblakjedi]

That one way to see it, the other way is how many assets/textures on screen you can load by streaming the data ? Twice as much.

Or not! We went over this for the last several days.

 

[Andodalf]

That one way to see it, the other way is how many assets/textures on screen you can load by streaming the data ? Twice as much.

So you can get rachet level “assets” on a PS1 with a fast enough drive? Or is there some other limiting factor?

 

[Trueblakjedi]

Good thing consoles have been doing that since PS2 or before in a form or the other then .

Except they haven't been. Not like this. Not down to the 1/4 of the texture page level. Not even the whole page.

Do save the smarmy talk.

But you will just have to see for yourself.

 

[Aidah]

Nothing Sony showed today looked like it was taking advantage of some crazy innovative never seen before SSD.

I expect every game, even the exclusives to run better on Series X hardware specs.

It's a fast SSD with a very efficient i/o system because of custom hardware. There are no secrets or sauce. There's also already one game that bases its main idea on the speed of that drive. Stop being a super fanboy.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

I also think it goes to show the Spider-Man video from a while back looks like it was a portion of the game and not the full game running, somebody else even pointed out there was no Spider-Man in that video either

Its a DLC expansion pack. Spiderman pS4 is being remastered with the miles Morales expansion. Not a new game.

 

[phil_t98]

Its a DLC expansion pack. Spiderman pS4 is being remastered with the miles Morales expansion. Not a new game.

That explains a lot. So its a PS4 expansion pack?

 

[Andodalf]

That explains a lot. So its a PS4 expansion pack?

Their tweet for Spider-Man doesn’t actually say it’s only coming to PS5, but the Ratchet one does

 

[Trueblakjedi]

That explains a lot. So its a PS4 expansion pack?

Not sure. But its definitely an expansion pack. Supposedly for the PS5 remaster of the PS4 game. Remember no cross gen!

 

[raul3d]

Yeah no. That 11 seconds loading screen of state of decay was not optimized in any way for an SSD and would still need more than 5 seconds to load on the ps5.

This is just wrong. State of decay itself runs in back compatible mode and the game itself was not optimized to take advantage of the SSD (that is: everything that is done once you are ingame). The quick resume functionality is an OS feature that restores a previously saved memory state of a game back to memory and you can bet that it was optimized for a SSD. They wouldn't have shown it, if there OS was not optimized for an SSD.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

This is just wrong. State of decay itself runs in back compatible mode and the game itself was not optimized to take advantage of the SSD (that is: everything that is done once you are ingame). The quick resume functionality is an OS feature that restores a previously saved memory state of a game back to memory and you can bet that it was optimized for a SSD. They wouldn't have shown it, if there OS was not optimized for an SSD.

MS said directly that it was not optimized for SSD or the architecture. It is just a game loaded onto the system as is that usually takes 45+ seconds to load.

So that pretty much ends it.

 

[Leyasu]

This is just wrong. State of decay itself runs in back compatible mode and the game itself was not optimized to take advantage of the SSD (that is: everything that is done once you are ingame). The quick resume functionality is an OS feature that restores a previously saved memory state of a game back to memory and you can bet that it was optimized for a SSD. They wouldn't have shown it, if there OS was not optimized for an SSD.

No, this is just wrong. Quick resume just means that the system knows where you were and how you left it. The game still has to be loaded. Unless of course, you think that the XsX keeps 4 or 5 games permanently loaded into the ram just incase.

What happens if you surpass the game limit?

 

[Trueblakjedi]

If there is something truly special about the PS5 SSD it would take years before developers learned how to fully take advantage of it. I wouldn't expect anything crazy outside of first party developers and not until mid or late generation. It's been this way for every console generation.

We were all warned that after the reveal we would see the true power of the SSD and it would SHOW a generational leap over the XSX with graphics and textures and loading not possible on any device.

Mmm not quite. Not at all really.

 

[HarryKS]

Absolutely no one said it was on the same LEVEL whatsoever. Jump to conclusions why don't you. But the SSD was on display here in the Medium. Its the only game on Xbox that did so. It was a clear advancement not possible in the current generation.

What? From those 2 seconds in the trailer you think The Medium isn't possible on current gen?

 

[Ascend]

Ah all these comments....

Ratchet & Clank looked impressive, but, let's not go overboard here... If you could control which portal you go to and when, when you were falling in that abyss that contains a bunch of portals, then it would be truly impressive.
Every time you are transported from portal to portal in quick succession, things are out of control of the player. That means it's scripted, and that means you can easily control which data needs to stream next. If you could switch between three completely different dimensions in less than one second, then I would believe it would be impossible on another device.

As of now, I don't see why the XSX or PC would be incapable of doing this.

 

[Xenon]

Honestly, I think the full resolution videos released after the Sony event are insane in their graphics. Not sure what the complaints are about. Let's see what the MS event will look like.

The advantage they'll have is people won't have to watch the trailers twice to see them in 4k.

 

[Jigsaah]

Ha Ha Ha! You lie. I call you on it, and you best response is to say I'm sensitive for pointing out your lie. Ha Ha Ha!

And oh boy, you are just upping the ante on that whole lying thing. What in the world are you now talking about that the XSX doesn't need to load the game because it can pre-load the game? Ratchet & Clank was jumping between entire levels on the fly. You can't preload multiple levels. That is why loading screens and streaming exists in the first place. No one should ever listen to a thing you say because you have completely discredited yourself.

No dude, it's an actual rumor. I'm not lying, that's why I prefaced the post saying it was a rumor.

I don't know if it's true, but this is what people are saying about Velocity.

 

[SmoothNinja]

As

Imagine being an Xbox Fanboy and trying to call out SONY Fanboys for believing in PR hype. Y'all been swinging off Phil Spencers nuts for years and STILL PRAYING for a big turnaround. Talk about the blind leading the blind. Let's see what MS and Sony actually does this generation before running your mouths.

I dont like the way it was stated bu

What? From those 2 seconds in the trailer you think The Medium isn't possible on current gen?

Near the end of the trailer. During the supposed gameplay portion where there's like a scream and the environment completely changes. If you have an example where that has been done this gen. Ill stand corrected. I cant think of a game that's done that?

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Watching the trailers back again this morning I was looking for stuff like LOD pop in/draw distance in the few gaming segments that were in relatively open areas. I mean, it's too early to tell.

Honestly my main concern was that it looked like frames were being dropped in numerous demos, unless it was just a stream issue

 

[Ascend]

We've had better than changing dimensions. We've had instant time travel!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spoiler

Obvious joke is obvious

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

What I saw was one game, R&C, attempt to provide justification for the SDD and then absolutely nothing else.

And what R&C is doing is sort of a gimmicky gameplay element that was getting old by the end of the trailer. It was disorienting honestly so how many games are actually going to be doing something like this??

Outside of something that needs to change the scene instantly, there appears to be no use of the SSD, because graphically I saw nothing that wasn't achievable by a mid range graphics card.

I think they were definitely inspired by the hopping in Rise of Skywalker (which BTW contradict the lore and in-universe rules regarding that for the sake of spectacle), so hopefully R&C does it way better than that film did. In RoS they somehow were able to hop from location to location without knowing any of the coordinates ahead of time, and somehow avoid crashing into some object upon doing so or warping accidentally inside of some object.

Which would've made those parts of the film a lot better, and at least be a bit more realistic. I'm sure Insomniac will come up with some tech for the game that explains how they can keep warping between worlds/dimensions without accident and somehow avoiding careening into some deadly object.

No dude, it's an actual rumor. I'm not lying, that's why I prefaced the post saying it was a rumor.

I don't know if it's true, but this is what people are saying about Velocity.

Eh, Event's just being cranky and disillusioned. He doesn't seem to understand that game design ideas and even genre trappings influence what technical designs are needed in terms of hardware utilized and how it is utilized. So they're already off the mark based on that alone.

 

[Andodalf]

Watching the trailers back again this morning I was looking for stuff like LOD pop in/draw distance in the few gaming segments that were in relatively open areas. I mean, it's too early to tell.

Honestly my main concern was that it looked like frames were being dropped in numerous demos, unless it was just a stream issue

Yeah RE especially was super framey, but several games appeared to drop frames. Most things shown had enough errors to look to be legit. Lod switching, use of Cube maps instead of RT, meh shadow quality in a few places. All that leads me to think most of what we saw was real ps5 footage

 

[raul3d]

MS said directly that it was not optimized for SSD or the architecture. It is just a game loaded onto the system as is that usually takes 45+ seconds to load.

Yes, the game itself is not optimized, but for quick resume the game itself is only doing minimal work. The texture streaming issues you see once ingame are results of not being optimized for SSDs, the loading time during quick resume is not. But of course: Stating that the game is not optimized, and being vague that it is actually unrelated to the shown loading time, sounds a lot better.

No, this is just wrong. Quick resume just means that the system knows where you were and how you left it. The game still has to be loaded. Unless of course, you think that the XsX keeps 4 or 5 games permanently loaded into the ram just incase.

Do you really think that quick resume works like that? Do you think they could offer it as an OS feature (working on all games), if it would work like that; normally loading your game and then restoring the game state you previously had? This would require so much effort from every single game that it would never work for all games.

When you suspend a game, it's current state in memory is dumped to the storage drive and when you resume it is read back into memory. This is how suspend/resume works on *all* devices. Windows does the same if you use hibernate. It does not try to manually reopen all your apps you had open in their last state.

 

[HarryKS]

As


I dont like the way it was stated bu

Near the end of the trailer. During the supposed gameplay portion where there's like a scream and the environment completely changes. If you have an example where that has been done this gen. Ill stand corrected. I cant think of a game that's done that?

Yeah, I know, I've watched it twice.

Titanfall 2
Quantum Break
Even Soul Reaver was doing it 2 decades ago.

 

[Jigsaah]

I think they were definitely inspired by the hopping in Rise of Skywalker (which BTW contradict the lore and in-universe rules regarding that for the sake of spectacle), so hopefully R&C does it way better than that film did. In RoS they somehow were able to hop from location to location without knowing any of the coordinates ahead of time, and somehow avoid crashing into some object upon doing so or warping accidentally inside of some object.

Which would've made those parts of the film a lot better, and at least be a bit more realistic. I'm sure Insomniac will come up with some tech for the game that explains how they can keep warping between worlds/dimensions without accident and somehow avoiding careening into some deadly object.



Eh, Event's just being cranky and disillusioned. He doesn't seem to understand that game design ideas and even genre trappings influence what technical designs are needed in terms of hardware utilized and how it is utilized. So they're already off the mark based on that alone.

Just one example of what people are saying. This particular person seems pretty confident about it

 

[Leyasu]

Yes, the game itself is not optimized, but for quick resume the game itself is only doing minimal work. The texture streaming issues you see once ingame are results of not being optimized for SSDs, the loading time during quick resume is not. But of course: Stating that the game is not optimized, and being vague that it is actually unrelated to the shown loading time, sounds a lot better.


Do you really think that quick resume works like that? Do you think they could offer it as an OS feature (working on all games), if it would work like that; normally loading your game and then restoring the game state you previously had? This would require so much effort from every single game that it would never work for all games.

When you suspend a game, it's current state in memory is dumped to the storage drive and when you resume it is read back into memory. This is how suspend/resume works on *all* devices. Windows does the same if you use hibernate. It does not try to manually reopen all your apps you had open in their last state.

Indeed, but the game still has to be loaded!! Suspend and resume is not a magic wand

 

[cormack12]

What I saw was one game, R&C, attempt to provide justification for the SDD and then absolutely nothing else.

I think it was meant as a demo or hint at how it can be used. Similar to Knack and the particle physics on PS4. Here is the sequence, where they are effectively dumping an entire level and replacing it with another level via a short warp transition multiple times. That's impressive at that detail level because of the size. Imagine Ubi being able to drop an animus scene straight into a high fidelity city etc.



However, it still has a transition for art direction (flying through the ait in that purple zone), which I was thinking about the other day. Sudden scene changes will be very jarring otherwise - like spawning into mayhem. So while as a technical feat you can sit back and appreciate it, I don't think you'll get a great return on this until mid-late next gen when all the engines have caught up and they're not hobbled by cross gen ports (I know Ratchet isn't).

But beyond that, XsX might have that transition scene lasting a couple of seconds longer, or they scale back some assets but it's not an insurmountable gap. Sony are clearly trailblazing and we can understand the tech and what it's doing. It's up to Sony to now distinguish it and prove to everyone it's a game changer and not just a talked up SSD. Last nights event didn't really showcase that.

 

[trapanesenyc]

You didn't see Ratchet & Clanks changing from one environment to a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT one instantly without a hitch?

I actually hope that the world switching isn't the only thing developers use the SSD for. It's cool but can become gimmicky quickly.

 

[RayHell]

So you can get rachet level “assets” on a PS1 with a fast enough drive? Or is there some other limiting factor?

Ps1 didn't have unlimited polygon on screen with technology like Nanite using Mesh Shader or PS5 Geometry engine.
The day polygon budget isn't an issue anymore, data IO become the main driver.

Tell me if you want more details.

 

[scydrex]

Jesus a teaser of the games and some are making conclusion already... let's wait to see more. This is only the beginning.

 

[Andodalf]

Ps1 didn't have unlimited polygon on screen with technology like Nanite using Mesh Shader or PS5 Geometry engine.
The day polygon budget isn't an issue anymore, data IO become the main driver.

Tell me if you want more details.

lamo. There is a finite poly budget still. Did you watch the UE demo? They many times list the Tris on screen, and while a big number, it’s not unreasonable. The entire point of UE 5 is taking higher poly models and turning them into more reasonable poly models on the fly. Poly budget is still a thing.

 

[kuncol02]

No, this is just wrong. Quick resume just means that the system knows where you were and how you left it. The game still has to be loaded. Unless of course, you think that the XsX keeps 4 or 5 games permanently loaded into the ram just incase.

What happens if you surpass the game limit?

It's save state of game like saving in emulators or hibernation in windows. It will probably never be shorter, because they need to write 13gb to disk and then load another pack. Actually it's like saving virtual machine state and restoring it later. Literally, because there is like 99% chance that XSX will still use same system architecture XOne was using, which means everything is runnig on VM.

 

[Leyasu]

It's save state of game like saving in emulators or hibernation in windows. It will probably never be shorter, because they need to write 13gb to disk and then load another pack. Actually it's like saving virtual machine state and restoring it later. Literally, because there is like 99% chance that XSX will still use same system architecture XOne was using, which means everything is runnig on VM.

If I understand correctly, then the game still has to be loaded right?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Except they haven't been. Not like this. Not down to the 1/4 of the texture page level. Not even the whole page.

Sure sure... virtual texturing as the mythical invention of newspaper, only possible on XSX, and developers not uploading portions of textures or selected mip levels only on PS2 (on a platform where you were DMA-ing to the rasteriser everything by hand... and yes I do mean uploading only the required mip levels and not the entire chain)

 

[kuncol02]

If I understand correctly, then the game still has to be loaded right?

That depends on what you mean by "loaded". If only read from drive and put into RAM, then yes. Remember that games are actually doing much more than reading data during loading screens.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yeah, I know, I've watched it twice.

Titanfall 2
Quantum Break
Even Soul Reaver was doing it 2 decades ago.

What != How

 

[93xfan]

R&C. It looks crazy at 4K. Clearly taking advantage of the SSD. Whether it helps with gameplay is a different matter.

Unless you’re talking about the dimension jumping, then it sounds like it’s taking advantage of the CPU and GPU

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

The logical ones of us knew there was no SSD secret sauce.

 

[Ar¢tos]

This thread in one image:

 

[RayHell]

lamo. There is a finite poly budget still. Did you watch the UE demo? They many times list the Tris on screen, and while a big number, it’s not unreasonable. The entire point of UE 5 is taking higher poly models and turning them into more reasonable poly models on the fly. Poly budget is still a thing.

It's limited in the viewport of course because you cannot show more polygons than pixel on screen with this technique but the assets you provide to the engine isn't.
Even if meshlet exclusion doesn't show the full assets that doesn't mean it's not resident in memory.