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[Trueblakjedi]

What makes you say that I feel letdown by what Sony showed?
I'm one the gaffers saying there are massive improvements that PS4 can't handle.
That goes especially for R&C.

Not you specifically sir. I meant that in general.

What I am saying is that people warned forum goers that after yesterday's reveal anyone advocating for even the potential of XSX to have a solution to i/o asset transfer would be decimated by what PS5 would display.

That certainly didn't happen in any game and in fact I can tell you of two disparate areas of very visible pop ans LOD in GT7 and the now infamous dimensional loading screens in R&C.

Does that or has that ever changed how good a game is or whether u enjoyed it? Never.

I love both Daytona USA and Ridge Racer and both had obvious pop in and drawin.

I liked the PS show overall but i certainly didn't see anything ti make me think "that SSD" made THAT happen.

My games of the show were

R&C
Project Athia
Kena
Stray
RETURNAL
And HFW.

I don't even like HFW's art style but I still think it looked fantastic especially the underwater scenes.

 

[Psykodad]

Not you specifically sir. I meant that in general.

What I am saying is that people warned forum goers that after yesterday's reveal anyone advocating for even the potential of XSX to have a solution to i/o asset transfer would be decimated by what PS5 would display.

That certainly didn't happen in any game and in fact I can tell you of two disparate areas of very visible pop ans LOD in GT7 and the now infamous dimensional loading screens in R&C.

Does that or has that ever changed how good a game is or whether u enjoyed it? Never.

I love both Daytona USA and Ridge Racer and both had obvious pop in and drawin.

I liked the PS show overall but i certainly didn't see anything ti make me think "that SSD" made THAT happen.

My games of the show were

R&C
Project Athia
Kena
Stray
RETURNAL
And HFW.

I don't even like HFW's art style but I still think it looked fantastic especially the underwater scenes.

What we've seen will be the first gen games, all transitional, all still in development.
So it's normal that there are still hickups present rn.

Also, calling the "loadings screens" in R&C "infamous" is reaching. And even if it has 2 second loadings screens, it'll be like 20 seconds or so on current-gen and completely breaking the flow of the game. IF it'd be possible at all with all the ray-tracing, particle effect, all those enemies and whatnot on screen at the same time as well.

I don't recall anyone even claiming that there would be literally no loading in any form in any game, especially with the first next-gen games.

Could it be possible? Maybe, I don't know, but I don't see how, seeing as even Pro will already be struggling with TLOU2 and GoT, going by games like GOW.

 

[Self]

I don't get that kind of vibe with the Xbox gamers. They appear more humbled and I think that's because they..

'... have to be humble, because of MS track record.'

Whereas PS consistent history speaks for itself. I've always been a multiplat guy, but never once have I denied PS leadership in regards to quality titles.

You are not honest with yourself, nor the people your interact with.

 

[The_Mike]

Dude, XSX has an SSD as well, right? And I assume they use similar tech to Sony.
Sony just came up with an SSD that outperforms the one in XSX, is all.

Unless XSX isn't comparable in any way, in which case I can see why you are so salty.
Is that what you're saying?

Please cut the fanboy straws in your post please. I guess we are both adults, so please act like one.

According to several other threads, which there has been hundreds of on Neogaf, regarding Sonys ssd, we've heard that devs should support by doing extra coding for it to support the exclusive features on the ssd. Ue5 supports it, so it would be stupid for devs not to enable it, but which other engine does at the moment?

Where you are contradicting yourself, it by saying thanks to Sonys SSD the devs can cut developer costs on all platforms.

1. If it's because of Sonys exclusive ssd, that means it's tech neither pc or Xbox supports, would not reduce dev costs since these platforms won't support it. You don't cut cost if you use it on one of three devices, then you code special for one particular device.

. If it's just because it's the usage of ssd, then sony really can't take credit for it since PC's has used this tech for a decade and Xbox are also catching up on it.

So, which is it? I still need a deep explanation from you, because you act like you know something that I don't, but somehow keep your secrets instead of making me and possible other readers wiser.

Please explain in details.

 

[Psykodad]

Please cut the fanboy straws in your post please. I guess we are both adults, so please act like one.

According to several other threads, which there has been hundreds of on Neogaf, regarding Sonys ssd, we've heard that devs should support by doing extra coding for it to support the exclusive features on the ssd. Ue5 supports it, so it would be stupid for devs not to enable it, but which other engine does at the moment?

Where you are contradicting yourself, it by saying thanks to Sonys SSD the devs can cut developer costs on all platforms.

1. If it's because of Sonys exclusive ssd, that means it's tech neither pc or Xbox supports, would not reduce dev costs since these platforms won't support it. You don't cut cost if you use it on one of three devices, then you code special for one particular device.

. If it's just because it's the usage of ssd, then sony really can't take credit for it since PC's has used this tech for a decade and Xbox are also catching up on it.

So, which is it? I still need a deep explanation from you, because you act like you know something that I don't, but somehow keep your secrets instead of making me and possible other readers wiser.

Please explain in details.

Cool story, a lot of nonsense.

Btw, I was talking about SSDs in general, NOT Sony's specific SSD.

 

[The_Mike]

Cool story, a lot of nonsense.

Btw, I was talking about SSDs in general, NOT Sony's specific SSD.

Then why did you quote me? I was talking about Sonys specific SSD. Read the content in the post before you attack someone.

And stop calling things you don't understand for nonsense. That's bad and unnecessary attention.

 

[phil_t98]

...and? It seems like the term sore winner sometimes does indeed apply .

And you can say PS fans have not been like that the whole gen? Posting sales figures, FPS difference,resoloution videos galore if the pro beat the X. It goes both ways buddy and look at all the SSD threads and you turning up in most series x discussions trying to down play any advatage

 

[Panajev2001a]

And you can say PS fans have not been like that the whole gen? Posting sales figures, FPS difference,resoloution videos galore if the pro beat the X. It goes both ways buddy and look at all the SSD threads and you turning up in most series x discussions trying to down play any advatage

not sure if the “Sony too” defense is evergreen, but good attempt.

I am not sure if discussing about absurd claims or claims without support is the same as downplaying an advantage, but if you see discussions through this kind of lenses it explains a few things at least.

 

[sinnergy]

In the end it’s the graphics that matters the most , you can see this in the discussions now after the reveal misare talking about Horizon 2, but it hardly uses the SSD to the max, both will utilize their SSDS to great extends, MS console will be hitting 60 frames more often and have a higher IQ and more higher res effects.

 

[Elog]

In the end it’s the graphics that matters the most , you can see this in the discussions now after the reveal misare talking about Horizon 2, but it hardly uses the SSD to the max, both will utilize their SSDS to great extends, MS console will be hitting 60 frames more often and have a higher IQ and more higher res effects.

You are still not understanding what good I/O does....

I/O with high throughout and low latency results in more textures with higher resolution on screen than I/O with worse throughout and latency. Where the exact boundaries of this are for PS5 and XSX respectively is unknown - all we know is that the PS5 has higher throughout and lower latency than XSX.

I am very curious to see if the XSX can utilise as many and detailed textures as in the in-engine shots from Horizon 2 and Demon Souls. We will see.

 

[intheinbetween]

I am very curious to see if the XSX can utilise as many and detailed textures as in the in-engine shots from Horizon 2 and Demon Souls . We will see.

wtf? are you serious?

anyways, did they showed anything ingame (not in-engine) of both games?

btw, Hellblade 2 would be the answer to those comparisons

 

[sinnergy]

You are still not understanding what good I/O does....

I/O with high throughout and low latency results in more textures with higher resolution on screen than I/O with worse throughout and latency. Where the exact boundaries of this are for PS5 and XSX respectively is unknown - all we know is that the PS5 has higher throughout and lower latency than XSX.

I am very curious to see if the XSX can utilise as many and detailed textures as in the in-engine shots from Horizon 2 and Demon Souls. We will see.

I do , but I am not going in full discussions anymore, because it won’t matter.

 

[phil_t98]

not sure if the “Sony too” defense is evergreen, but good attempt.

I am not sure if discussing about absurd claims or claims without support is the same as downplaying an advantage, but if you see discussions through this kind of lenses it explains a few things at least.

The Sony to isn’t a defense it’s a fact

 

[chamber79]

Since when was launch games really indicative of where will we be at with this generation. I don't think it's going to change graphics drastically but more immersion especially for open worlds because of less Loading screens and other things, like more streamlined game design.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The Sony to isn’t a defense it’s a fact

Supported by? Still, quite ballsy the “we coordinate-troll and downplay because we think SonyToo” defense if that is what you mean .

 

[sinnergy]

Since when was launch games really indicative of where will we be at with this generation. I don't think it's going to change graphics drastically but more immersion especially for open worlds because of less Loading screens and other things, like more streamlined game design.

Almost never, but let’s be honest , the build up until this reveal was , Sony is showing only UE5 material , most are now set back in Reality , and that is time is money , time to learn, effort you are willing to take.

I thought most stuff looked nice, a upgrade , but a 10 TF upgrade ? It wasn’t in my opinion.

if you set expectations you better make sure you meet them.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Almost never, but let’s be honest , the build up until this reveal was , Sony is showing only UE5 material , most are now set back in Reality , and that is time is money , time to learn, effort you are willing to take.

I thought most stuff looked nice, a upgrade , but a 10 TF upgrade ? It wasn’t in my opinion.

if you set expectations you better make sure you meet them.

Late gen PS1 games > launch games and real-time tech demos, same thing for PS2, PSP, PSVita, arguably PS3, PS4, not sure why PS5 would be the exception...

 

[Psykodad]

Almost never, but let’s be honest , the build up until this reveal was , Sony is showing only UE5 material , most are now set back in Reality , and that is time is money , time to learn, effort you are willing to take.

I thought most stuff looked nice, a upgrade , but a 10 TF upgrade ? It wasn’t in my opinion.

if you set expectations you better make sure you meet them.

What? Who said Sony would only show UE5 material? Nobody.

Anyway, the biggest changes will be in gamedesign and dynamic worlds.
That's what most people have been longing for as well, afaik.
Hard to showcase in 2 min trailers.

 

[phil_t98]

Supported by? Still, quite ballsy the “we coordinate-troll and downplay because we think SonyToo” defense if that is what you mean .

So every time a pro game gets 1fps difference it’s made sure that it’s posted on here, any Xbox thread there is always downplay from certain posters

 

[Nikana]

Thanks for the reply. I already got most of it, but it was an interesting read.

The thing I want to highlight though, is the part I quoted.
I understand that devs have to predict what players do and store it in RAM, but from what I'm understanding, PS5 design pretty much solved this problem.

Going by this:


And this:


It seems that devs don't need to store predictions into RAM anymore and the entire issue you're referring to, isn't going to be much of an issue going forward, as PS5 SSD is designed to do all that automatically.

And as far as the actual rendering goes, we have already seen the outside world part of the UE5 demo (1440p/30fps) and R&C gameplay (native 4K/30fps) in action, so PS5 is capable enough to render all that data fast enough.

Again, maybe I'm still misunderstanding something, so I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this.

I don't think you are misunderstanding per say but I think you are too focused on PS5 solving this issue. SSD's solve this issue. While Sony did develop an SSD for the PS5, the technology behind the SSD isn't sony's invention. LIke I said in my last post the innovation isn't that theres a super fast SSD in the PS5, its the fact that both are moving to a very fast SSD in general. If the Xbox Seires X had a basic SSD with only a 500mb read then this would be a different story but they have 2.4 GB, which is a lot, of raw data per second even without knowing what they plan to do with I/O to help further that along.

The RAM part is still important because even though assets can be loaded into ram much faster than previously you still have limitations. Again if there was an infinite amount of resources then this would be a different story. You are still limited by the bandwidth and amount of RAM. If the SSD was able to simply load assets in an infinite matter due to its throughput then why not cut the amount of RAM to save money? THeres a reason they went with 16GB, because you still have to render the data and without a good amount of RAM your image quality would suffer tremendously. Even though the PS5 SSD is very fast, its not as fast as RAM. And even with the scrubbers that PS5 has in its hardware block you still need RAM for the GPU to be able to render the image. Meaning that while developers no longer have to constrain their design in many aspects like they did before, but they are still limited by what the GPU can render. Its just not that because both have a very fast SSD they no longer have to worry about saturating the RAM pool.

Even with this, you still have to predict what the player will do unless your game is just pulling Assets randomly, which I guess could be a feature of a game,(?) but you are still designing a world and you still have to guide the player through that world. If its open or linear you still are crafting something that isn't random meaning you still need to optimize since you don't have an infinite amount of resources to be rendered. You still have to make sure that your image is pulling what it needs. And while you no longer have to worry about crafting things in way to make sure the HDD can keep up, you still are limited by how much you can load into RAM per second. And even though the SSD can in the PS5 can pull it faster, both will their limit of RAM before you you will even notice whats happening.

Which then also I know begs the question since the PS5 can pull more data faster couldn't the rooms be more detailed? In theory again this is correct because it can load and pull more assets, but you will run into a bandwidth limitation. Meaning that you have to look at whatever you are creating and still work within limits meaning you still have to try and predict what/where the player will go, but now you don't have to do it nearly the same degree.

But also a very easy way to think about this is also if you look at game sizes you will see that even at the XSX's 2.4 GB of Raw data, you can eat through an entire set of assets in seconds. Look at a game like Witcher 3. its a 40GB game (last time I checked). You could eat through the entire game in under 20 seconds on XSX VS ps5 which could in 8. Which sounds like a huge difference but thats the entire asset pool which will not be pulled. The game will not use every asset at all times because it can't due to other limits of the system. Realistically, you are going to be pulling smaller GB's of data at a time and both are capable of doing this in seconds. And this is again without knowing what Microsoft plans to do with their I/O and the velocity engine. Which could end up being a bunch of buzzwords but it will likely aid in some capacity. Meaning you are looking at pull the maximum of amount of data you need to saturate the resources in 3 ish seconds on PS5 and 7 ish seconds on XSX (before whatever Velocity system will do) Thats the absolute maximum difference you will see at any time, but realistically it will be much shorter for both as you wont need to pull in massive amounts of assets every second.

Which means that at the end of the day the systems are extremely similar. And that the differences between third party games will likely be very small, even smaller than they were this gen. RT is the only thing thats still up in the air as we dont know how AMD is handling RT on their cards.

 

[sinnergy]

What? Who said Sony would only show UE5 material? Nobody.

Anyway, the biggest changes will be in gamedesign and dynamic worlds.
That's what most people have been longing for as well, afaik.
Hard to showcase in 2 min trailers.

The consensus here was Sony would blow everything out of the water and show what next-gen really looked like.

 

[Psykodad]

I don't think you are misunderstanding per say but I think you are too focused on PS5 solving this issue. SSD's solve this issue. While Sony did develop an SSD for the PS5, the technology behind the SSD isn't sony's invention. LIke I said in my last post the innovation isn't that theres a super fast SSD in the PS5, its the fact that both are moving to a very fast SSD in general. If the Xbox Seires X had a basic SSD with only a 500mb read then this would be a different story but they have 2.4 GB, which is a lot, of raw data per second even without knowing what they plan to do with I/O to help further that along.

The RAM part is still important because even though assets can be loaded into ram much faster than previously you still have limitations. Again if there was an infinite amount of resources then this would be a different story. You are still limited by the bandwidth and amount of RAM. If the SSD was able to simply load assets in an infinite matter due to its throughput then why not cut the amount of RAM to save money? THeres a reason they went with 16GB, because you still have to render the data and without a good amount of RAM your image quality would suffer tremendously. Even though the PS5 SSD is very fast, its not as fast as RAM. And even with the scrubbers that PS5 has in its hardware block you still need RAM for the GPU to be able to render the image. Meaning that while developers no longer have to constrain their design in many aspects like they did before, but they are still limited by what the GPU can render. Its just not that because both have a very fast SSD they no longer have to worry about saturating the RAM pool.

Even with this, you still have to predict what the player will do unless your game is just pulling Assets randomly, which I guess could be a feature of a game,(?) but you are still designing a world and you still have to guide the player through that world. If its open or linear you still are crafting something that isn't random meaning you still need to optimize since you don't have an infinite amount of resources to be rendered. You still have to make sure that your image is pulling what it needs. And while you no longer have to worry about crafting things in way to make sure the HDD can keep up, you still are limited by how much you can load into RAM per second. And even though the SSD can in the PS5 can pull it faster, both will their limit of RAM before you you will even notice whats happening.

Which then also I know begs the question since the PS5 can pull more data faster couldn't the rooms be more detailed? In theory again this is correct because it can load and pull more assets, but you will run into a bandwidth limitation. Meaning that you have to look at whatever you are creating and still work within limits meaning you still have to try and predict what/where the player will go, but now you don't have to do it nearly the same degree.

But also a very easy way to think about this is also if you look at game sizes you will see that even at the XSX's 2.4 GB of Raw data, you can eat through an entire set of assets in seconds. Look at a game like Witcher 3. its a 40GB game (last time I checked). You could eat through the entire game in under 20 seconds on XSX VS ps5 which could in 8. Which sounds like a huge difference but thats the entire asset pool which will not be pulled. The game will not use every asset at all times because it can't due to other limits of the system. Realistically, you are going to be pulling smaller GB's of data at a time and both are capable of doing this in seconds. And this is again without knowing what Microsoft plans to do with their I/O and the velocity engine. Which could end up being a bunch of buzzwords but it will likely aid in some capacity. Meaning you are looking at pull the maximum of amount of data you need to saturate the resources in 3 ish seconds on PS5 and 7 ish seconds on XSX (before whatever Velocity system will do) Thats the absolute maximum difference you will see at any time, but realistically it will be much shorter for both as you wont need to pull in massive amounts of assets every second.

Which means that at the end of the day the systems are extremely similar. And that the differences between third party games will likely be very small, even smaller than they were this gen. RT is the only thing thats still up in the air as we dont know how AMD is handling RT on their cards.

I see. Makes sense and clears up some questions.

But basically, what devs can do for next-gen games (in general), is use the speed of the SSDs to go for bigger draw distances and such then?
I know from working on a project in Dreams, that tricks are being used to hide assets to keep performance steady. Like a hill that blocks some of the views, or narrow passages and such.
If both next-gen consoles can load entire current-gen games that fast, they should be able to allow for things like open area full-scale battles in a game like BF, with fully destructible environments, terrain deformation and overall more stuff going on, without much pop-up (if any) and texture pop-in.
Is that right?

Within the limits of CPU/GPU/RAM ofcourse.

 

[ToadMan]

The Xsex was not finalised when it came out so I'll give MS a pass on that one. As for Scorn and the Medium, I am not too offended that they were demoed on PC because the developers all confirmed 4k60 on the XSex (not a game we saw yesterday made any resolution of framerate claims, so as to psychologically prepare people for anything).
In July however, I will be the first person to scream foul if Infinite is not running on an XSX.

So what you're confirming is that Hellblade demo bears little to no relation to what anyone should expect xsex to actually be capable of? I totally agree.

Perhaps that message should be spread far and wide... for some reason when I say that I'm accused of being biased.


As for res/frames - here's some for you

Destiny 2 - xsex/PS5 both 4k/60FPS
Bloober's game (yes - the Medium dev) Observer - 4k/60fps on PS5 and xsex.


That cross gen multilpat sector is turning out the same on both consoles. As was predicted...

 

[Psykodad]

The consensus here was Sony would blow everything out of the water and show what next-gen really looked like.

To me and many others, they did.
To some, they didn't.

There's definitely some stuff, like R&C, that won't be possible on current-gen to the same extent.

 

[Elog]

RT is the only thing thats still up in the air as we dont know how AMD is handling RT on their cards.

This was one thing that positively surprised me. The RT demos that we have seen so far from the Nvidia 20xx cards and what we saw at the PS5 event were very far apart to PS5's advantage. I did not expect that.

Will be interesting to learn more about AMDs RT hardware and how both XSX and PS5 have designed their custom GPUs. DF similarly expressed positive surprises here in their opinion video.

 

[ToadMan]

Absolutely no one said it was on the same LEVEL whatsoever. Jump to conclusions why don't you. But the SSD was on display here in the Medium. Its the only game on Xbox that did so. It was a clear advancement not possible in the current generation.

How can you tell? That medium trailer showed zero discernible gameplay... it looked like precanned cutscene stuff, running on a PC too.

And the R+C in game stuff still looked better. Medium is a one character walking sim, not a proper game. That's what bloober make. Using that as an SSD comparison is insane - they just aren't doing anything similar.

 

[ToadMan]

Truth hurt? What he said isn't wrong. This is coming from someone that is getting both systems at launch. It's fine to like a company. But hold them accountable for the BS they spew.

I don't care about Sony or MS - I don't have their stock (any more) I use products from both.

But to blame all of MS's failing on Sony as if Sony care about MS on some kind of personal level is ridiculous. Even if it were true - which it isn't - it would simply be a demonstration of how weak MS is.

And while we're talking BS - no one can claim that MS 3rd party reveal was anything but BS on more than one level.

 

[ToadMan]

Yeah because a backwards compatible game, not a game built from the ground up for Series X, is the benchmark for the Series X SSD performance...

That's what MS put out there... What else should anyone use?

You can fantasize if you like - I'll just take what actual information is publicly available.

 

[clarky]

You fuckers are painful as.

 

[Nikana]

I see. Makes sense and clears up some questions.

But basically, what devs can do for next-gen games (in general), is use the speed of the SSDs to go for bigger draw distances and such then?
I know from working on a project in Dreams, that tricks are being used to hide assets to keep performance steady. Like a hill that blocks some of the views, or narrow passages and such.
If both next-gen consoles can load entire current-gen games that fast, they should be able to allow for things like open area full-scale battles in a game like BF, with fully destructible environments, terrain deformation and overall more stuff going on, without much pop-up (if any) and texture pop-in.
Is that right?

Within the limits of CPU/GPU/RAM ofcourse.

I would say thats the right line of thinking. The ability to load things so much faster will allow them saturate the resources much quicker meaning the complexity of all of the environments in general can go way up as every single area now doesn't have to be constrained by the inability to load new assets. But this is all up to the developer. The raise in complexity means that you also have to make more detailed assets. Which means more time and more money. But you are also saving time on not having to worry about being constrained by the HDD. I am not a developer so I can't comment on how much time that saves, but if I had to guess removing that step isn't going to result in an influx of creativity. Its simply going to make a game get up and running much easier without the headaches. Optimization should in theory be easier as well.

 

[ToadMan]

The advantage they'll have is people won't have to watch the trailers twice to see them in 4k.

Well if the 3rd party reveal is anything to go by, they won't be running on xsex at all lol

 

[Nikana]

This was one thing that positively surprised me. The RT demos that we have seen so far from the Nvidia 20xx cards and what we saw at the PS5 event were very far apart to PS5's advantage. I did not expect that.

Will be interesting to learn more about AMDs RT hardware and how both XSX and PS5 have designed their custom GPUs. DF similarly expressed positive surprises here in their opinion video.

I am not sure I thought they were very far apart. They looked good but its about what I expected considering its a closed platform. The advantages of RT will likely be the thing that grows the most this gen as it becomes easier and less taxing with new tricks and such. Will we get to full RT images, probably not but I think the amount of sources that will be RT will go up quite a bit throughout the gen. But that really is a guess.

 

[Psykodad]

I would say thats the right line of thinking. The ability to load things so much faster will allow them saturate the resources much quicker meaning the complexity of all of the environments in general can go way up as every single area now doesn't have to be constrained by the inability to load new assets. But this is all up to the developer. The raise in complexity means that you also have to make more detailed assets. Which means more time and more money. But you are also saving time on not having to worry about being constrained by the HDD. I am not a developer so I can't comment on how much time that saves, but if I had to guess removing that step isn't going to result in an influx of creativity. Its simply going to make a game get up and running much easier without the headaches. Optimization should in theory be easier as well.

Cool, sounds good.
Really curious to see what next-gen will bring across the board.

Thnx for the replies.

 

[VFXVeteran]

at this point its clear you have no idea what Uncharted 4 uses in gameplay and what doesnt

is it so difficult to accept that gameplay and cutscenes sometimes use the same effects and assets?

No. You have no idea. That's not SSS. That's using a technique called reverse diffuse lighting model where the normals are reversed with a texture weighted map around the ears. Light scatters through ALL surfaces even through his face (which clearly shows nothing but diffuse lighting on his face and arms) which is shown in the cinematic but NOT the gameplay screenshot.

Seriously , you guys are extremely annoying when you aren't graphics programmers and try to armchair dev using screenshots.

 

[chamber79]

Almost never, but let’s be honest , the build up until this reveal was , Sony is showing only UE5 material , most are now set back in Reality , and that is time is money , time to learn, effort you are willing to take.

I thought most stuff looked nice, a upgrade , but a 10 TF upgrade ? It wasn’t in my opinion.

if you set expectations you better make sure you meet them.

UE5 is a new engine so of course, none of the games look like that yet. The games shown by pS5 are probably using old game engines that they are still tweaking for the new systems.
Really though regardless of whether your expectations were met none of that changes the fact that the tech is built in there and once they really start to utilize it then we will be able to see what it can really do.

 

[Nikana]

Cool, sounds good.
Really curious to see what next-gen will bring across the board.

Thnx for the replies.

The IQ will likely be very strong from start to end of the gen but I don't see graphics making a PS2/Xbox - PS3/360 jump. The IQ will continue to look more and more clean. But the innovation this gen will be in engine and complexity of environments. Every gen the "ability to do things not previously possible" is thrown around and while thats always true that doesn't mean its as noticeable. This gen I think will have a lot of innovation from start to finish and games will look vastly different they did at the start of then gen vs the end.

 

[Elog]

The IQ will likely be very strong from start to end of the gen but I don't see graphics making a PS2/Xbox - PS3/360 jump. The IQ will continue to look more and more clean. But the innovation this gen will be in engine and complexity of environments. Every gen the "ability to do things not previously possible" is thrown around and while thats always true that doesn't mean its as noticeable. This gen I think will have a lot of innovation from start to finish and games will look vastly different they did at the start of then gen vs the end.

One of the biggest impressions that the PS5 reveal had on me compared to anything I have seen in previous generations (and on my PC) was the amount of different textures (and in high resolution) that was displayed in any given scene. It hit me like a truck how limited the texture budget has been. Outside of RT and light that was my biggest take away.

Looking at the Demon's Soul screen shots as well as the Horizon video it is so noticeable to me. And that - much more than resolution as such - is was brought life to those scenes to me.

 

[VertigoOA]

IT WAS ALWAYS BULLSHIT FUD

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Not you specifically sir. I meant that in general.

What I am saying is that people warned forum goers that after yesterday's reveal anyone advocating for even the potential of XSX to have a solution to i/o asset transfer would be decimated by what PS5 would display.

That certainly didn't happen in any game and in fact I can tell you of two disparate areas of very visible pop ans LOD in GT7 and the now infamous dimensional loading screens in R&C.

Does that or has that ever changed how good a game is or whether u enjoyed it? Never.

I love both Daytona USA and Ridge Racer and both had obvious pop in and drawin.

I liked the PS show overall but i certainly didn't see anything ti make me think "that SSD" made THAT happen.

My games of the show were

R&C
Project Athia
Kena
Stray
RETURNAL
And HFW.

I don't even like HFW's art style but I still think it looked fantastic especially the underwater scenes.

You’re dead on with the part about how anyone presenting a take where XSX would be better or even equal were shouted down from the mountain tops by an army of console warriors spewing horse shit. According to them the PS5 event should have been chock full of amazing looking titles only possible on PS5... instead it was a decent showing full of multi plats and a couple good looking first party gameplay segments.

It’s no different than leading up to the PS5 specs video, those warriors were spewing crap about how the 12TF XSX would be crushed by the 15+TF PS5 with 32GB of RAM but then it became about the only spec the PS5 has the advantage in, SSD speed.

Turns out the PS5 is just a more powerful PS4 with an SSD that will change how games are played and how they load, same as XSX. This isn’t a bad thing unless you’ve spent months beating down the forum with trash about how much the PS5 SSD will revolutionize everything in gaming.

 

[Panajev2001a]

So every time a pro game gets 1fps difference it’s made sure that it’s posted on here, any Xbox thread there is always downplay from certain posters

So you are telling me that some fanboys take the piss of the other fanboys and that there may be more PS fans around for some mysterious reason? Very shocked...

To some extent, not that I am too fond of, some e-peen competition always happens (you are conveniently forgetting a lot other events in there while painting a certain faction as the victim.., if X1X is a beast and PS4 Pro were a shitty half step it beating X1X should make the news ..., a bit disingenuously I think), but the coordinated pattern of bringing console warrior hyperbole or “concern” around Sony’s first party games and news to then play the victim to SonyGAF card kind of got old.

 

[SmoothNinja]

How can you tell? That medium trailer showed zero discernible gameplay... it looked like precanned cutscene stuff, running on a PC too.

And the R+C in game stuff still looked better. Medium is a one character walking sim, not a proper game. That's what bloober make. Using that as an SSD comparison is insane - they just aren't doing anything similar.

At the end of the trailer that was clearly... clearly gameplay. But to throw you a bone. Much more was happening in the R&C demo. I'm not arguing I wasnt impressed but the capabilities of an SSD which PC games have been utilitizing for years now were on display when the environment changed in an instant.

 

[phil_t98]

So you are telling me that some fanboys take the piss of the other fanboys and that there may be more PS fans around for some mysterious reason? Very shocked...

To some extent, not that I am too fond of, some e-peen competition always happens (you are conveniently forgetting a lot other events in there while painting a certain faction as the victim.., if X1X is a beast and PS4 Pro were a shitty half step it beating X1X should make the news ..., a bit disingenuously I think), but the coordinated pattern of bringing console warrior hyperbole or “concern” around Sony’s first party games and news to then play the victim to SonyGAF card kind of got old.

Your the one that brought up about people saying there is an advantage in power in Xbox?

 

[Peenolia010]

We’ll just have to see, I think its more about them being closer than what people make it out to be. And 12tfps not being a massive 25% advantage like many say.

At the end of the day the games today didnt look like they could be played on a PS4 Pro. They looked next gen. PS5

And so far all the games we’ve seen from Xbox look like they can be played on current gen Consoles....

You really want to defy logic and go with a narrative that is obviously not true.

 

[M1chl]

So what you're confirming is that Hellblade demo bears little to no relation to what anyone should expect xsex to actually be capable of? I totally agree.

Perhaps that message should be spread far and wide... for some reason when I say that I'm accused of being biased.


As for res/frames - here's some for you

Destiny 2 - xsex/PS5 both 4k/60FPS
Bloober's game (yes - the Medium dev) Observer - 4k/60fps on PS5 and xsex.


That cross gen multilpat sector is turning out the same on both consoles. As was predicted...

_Observer in 4k/60 would be dope tho. I think is doable Layers of Fear 2 run pretty well unlocked and looked fantastic.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

 

[Panajev2001a]

Your the one that brought up about people saying there is an advantage in power in Xbox?

I remember how it started, not sure you do and moving the goalpost continuously does not help which I guess it is the point perhaps... what I saw after was you waving your hands about all these Sony naysayers and essentially another SonyGAF shout (in a thread that is another “concern” thread in disguise) and produce not much evidence your side and evidence for the other I guess.

 

[phil_t98]

I remember how it started, not sure you do and moving the goalpost continuously does not help which I guess it is the point perhaps... what I saw after was you waving your hands about all these Sony naysayers and essentially another SonyGAF shout (in a thread that is another “concern” thread in disguise) and produce not much evidence your side and evidence for the other I guess.

You realy can’t control yourself can you. You were the one who was saying about people talking about Xbox having the power advantage not me. I point out it happens both sides

 

[SleepDoctor]

This thread has really taken off lol.

Lets see


-XSX design revealed

Warriors laugh saying how big it is or ugly the design is.


-Xbox 12 tf confirmed

Sony warriors troll and shitpost every thread and claim Ps5 will be more powerful etc etc etc.


-XSX 3rd party showing

Again the trolling and shitposting.


After each one of these, nothing but crow has been served.

-10.2 boosted Ps5

-Even bigger console (and quite ugly design too)

-Disappointing show with plenty "gamepass filler" indie games and a handful of exclusives while failing at demonstrating some not possible on the XSX.


Its time to just shut up and let the games talk. Every hype train so far has been derailed. This shit is old af already and we still have at least another 5 months of waiting.

 

[polybius80]

No. You have no idea. That's not SSS. That's using a technique called reverse diffuse lighting model where the normals are reversed with a texture weighted map around the ears. Light scatters through ALL surfaces even through his face (which clearly shows nothing but diffuse lighting on his face and arms) which is shown in the cinematic but NOT the gameplay screenshot.

no true scotsman fallacy

but the cutscenes have "true" SSS? back in beyond3d you criticized U4 SSS as "far away from the real thing"

SSS is an effect, it is simulated by different techniques some better than others specially since this is real time and as a result it varies even more from your offline renders, also they may differ by different settings(link) and light placement in the scene, a light from the back of a character wont cause much effect in the face as notorious as ears that dont have bones inside, artists have to consider that, cutscenes may use an improved version or better light placement or both, you can criticize the quality of the effect all you want(after all ND describes their SSS as "cheap"), mention parts of its process instead of calling it by its name all day if you want, but you cannot deny the effect is SSS by definition and used in gameplay, other games also use SSS, some more cheap than other but they are SSS like MGSV or Tomorrow Children






here are more screens and you can see SSS with other illumination

the above image look very good saving resolution differencies and considering is real time compared to this full SSS in a offline render(below)

this is from a cutscene, is that "reverse diffuse lighting model where the normals are reversed with a texture weighted map around the ears"?

skin is not the only place where SSS is simulated, ND also simulates it in other shaders for example moss and plants

http://www.advances.realtimerendering.com/other/2016/naughty_dog/NaughtyDog_TechArt_Final.pdf

Seriously , you guys are extremely annoying when you aren't graphics programmers and try to armchair dev using screenshots.

the screens comes from a thread in beyond3d, I dont remember you calling anyone there "annoying" or "armchair devs" after they mentioned SSS used in gameplay models, you complained for other things



not all games uses "orders of magnitude" better effects in the cutscenes vs gameplay graphics, sorry if it sounds like deja-vu from beyond3d, but you cannot make bold claims present no evidence and then when proven wrong cry we are "annoying"

 

[VFXVeteran]

no true scotsman fallacy

but the cutscenes have "true" SSS? back in beyond3d you criticized U4 SSS as "far away from the real thing"

SSS is an effect, it is simulated by different techniques some better than others specially since this is real time and as a result it varies even more from your offline renders, also they may differ by different settings(link) and light placement in the scene, a light from the back of a character wont cause much effect in the face as notorious as ears that dont have bones inside, artists have to consider that, cutscenes may use an improved version or better light placement or both, you can criticize the quality of the effect all you want(after all ND describes their SSS as "cheap"), mention parts of its process instead of calling it by its name all day if you want, but you cannot deny the effect is SSS by definition and used in gameplay, other games also use SSS, some more cheap than other but they are SSS like MGSV or Tomorrow Children






here are more screens and you can see SSS with other illumination

the above image look very good saving resolution differencies and considering is real time compared to this full SSS in a offline render(below)

this is from a cutscene, is that "reverse diffuse lighting model where the normals are reversed with a texture weighted map around the ears"?

skin is not the only place where SSS is simulated, ND also simulates it in other shaders for example moss and plants

http://www.advances.realtimerendering.com/other/2016/naughty_dog/NaughtyDog_TechArt_Final.pdf

the screens comes from a thread in beyond3d, I dont remember you calling anyone there "annoying"(well, you did one time) or "armchair devs" after they mentioned SSS used in gameplay models



not all games uses "orders of magnitude" better effects in the cutscenes vs gameplay graphics

I'm not in those forums. But you clearly are armchair screenshots without knowing how to implement any of these features. The moss and plants are using reverse diffuse lighting. You don't realize how expensive SSS really is.