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Capcom reinvesting MH4 profits into new 4 billion yen internal Japanese mobile studio

Porcile

Member
Can't really blame them tbh.

This is the current reality for most Japanese developers that have failed to break into the western market in any significant way. Then again the way Capcom went about it was highly questionable -- let's see what other delights they have in store for us.

You can blame them. Their strategy over the past generation was mostly terrible. They catered their IP's to a Western audience that couldn't give two shits about their games and in the process managed to disillusion their actual fanbase with; constant sequels, dodgy DLC practice, outsourced games to poor developers and general neglect of their legacy IP's. Capcom was a total joke last gen and their path to irrelevancy looks set to continue.
 
You can blame them. Their strategy over the past generation was mostly terrible. They catered their IP's to a Western audience that couldn't give two shits about their games and in the process managed to disillusion their actual fanbase with; constant sequels, dodgy DLC practice, outsourced games to poor developers and general neglect of their legacy IP's. Capcom was a total joke last gen and their path to irrelevancy looks set to continue.

I totally agree. I just understand why they're jumping into the mobile space after their shitty practices the past generation have left them in ruins. This is the same situation as Square-Enix. It's their last resort to maintaining some relevancy as a company.
 

Piccoro

Member
Let us have an ode to the great Capcom franchises we can kiss goodbye:

*pics from a awesome videogame era long gone...*

Thank you for all the memories. I guess we're gonna be stuck with Resident Evil, Street Fighter, & Monster Hunter sequel after sequel.

Although this news sucks, Capcom is really no different from the other companies. Konami only releases Metal Gears and PES, Sega only cares about Sonic, Total War and Football Manager... And Square Enix is beyond salvation.

These are the new times, the mobile crap is destroying our traditional console hobby. Unfortunately we just have to deal with it... :(
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
I totally agree. I just understand why they're jumping into the mobile space after their shitty practices the past generation have left them in ruins. This is the same situation as Square-Enix. It's their last resort to maintaining some relevancy as a company.

They are doing what every other idiot dev house thats trying for the mobile scramble after seeing how the larger titles did with raking in cash and want to try to get a piece of that easy pie. Instead of using actual talent to make shit that people want to buy.

Capcom is almost in the same lane of stupid as Square Enix.
 

Opiate

Member
You can blame them. Their strategy over the past generation was mostly terrible. They catered their IP's to a Western audience that couldn't give two shits about their games and in the process managed to disillusion their actual fanbase with; constant sequels, dodgy DLC practice, outsourced games to poor developers and general neglect of their legacy IP's. Capcom was a total joke last gen and their path to irrelevancy looks set to continue.

There isn't anything to "blame." Mobile is a rapidly growing market segment and, surprise surprise, Capcom is putting their new resources to use in the fast growing market segments and not the stagnant or even contracting segments like handhelds and console.

Really the only plausible way to "blame" Capcom for this move is to argue that their skillset will not transfer adequately to the mobile market (that is, they know how to make good console games but not good mobile games), but it seems like they haven't been doing especially well in the console market, either. This explanation would make much more sense for, say, Bioware, who has had moderate success on high end PCs and consoles but thus far done terribly on portables and mobile, which suggests they simply don't have the skill to make good mobile/portable games and are probably better suited to stay in their comfort zone.
 
They are doing what every other idiot dev house thats trying for the mobile scramble after seeing how the larger titles did with raking in cash and want to try to get a piece of that easy pie. Instead of using actual talent to make shit that people want to buy.

Capcom is almost in the same lane of stupid as Square Enix.

Still, we can't say Square-Enix's ventures into the mobile space have been fruitless, so as much as it pains me to admit, I can see Capcom doing well the same way: leveraging their more recognisable franchises. It's a low risk, potentially high reward strategy.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
In one thread, some people hate Capcom's foray into mobile. In another thread, some people want Nintendo to move into mobile. This forum is so fun. =)
 

Porcile

Member
There isn't anything to "blame." Mobile is a rapidly growing market segment and, surprise surprise, Capcom is putting their new resources to use in the fast growing market segments and not the stagnant or even contracting segments like handhelds and console.

Really the only plausible way to "blame" Capcom for this move is to argue that their skillset will not transfer adequately to the mobile market (that is, they know how to make good console games but not good mobile games), but it seems like they haven't been doing especially well in the console market, either. This explanation would make much more sense for, say, Bioware, who has had moderate success on high end PCs and consoles but thus far done terribly on portables and mobile, which suggests they simply don't have the skill to make good mobile/portable games and are probably better suited to stay in their comfort zone.

I'm arguing they're to blame because their failures, and inabilty to understand what anyone wants from them in the console space, have directly attributed to them driving forward haphazardly into the relatively unknown (for them) world of mobile development. The reason their market contracted, considering they have some of the strongest IP's in all gaming, was irresponsible use of said IP's. Capcom fucked up big time. Now they're desperately trying to latch on to what they think the market wants from them.
 

Opiate

Member
I'm arguing they're to blame because their failures, and inabilty to understand what anyone wants from them in the console space, have directly attributed to them driving forward haphazardly into the relatively unknown (for them) world of mobile development. The reason their market contracted, considering they have some of the strongest IP's in all gaming, was irresponsible use of said IP's. Capcom fucked up big time. Now they're desperately trying to latch on to what they think the market wants from them.

In this case, their expansion is a direct consequence of their success, not failure; they have profits, they're using them.

This is not a case of a company running away with its tail tucked between its legs, going from one failure to the next. They are not, in this specific case, taking pre-existing resources and moving them over to mobile, but are creating whole new resources from the money they have available. They had a hit game, they're using the profits from that hit game to expand, the end.

Maybe your story arc works in other cases, but it doesn't seem very applicable to the situation we're seeing in the OP.
 

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
In this case, their expansion is a direct consequence of their success, not failure; they have profits, they're using them.

This is not a case of a company running away with its tail tucked between its legs, going from one failure to the next. They are not, in this specific case, taking pre-existing resources and moving them over to mobile, but are creating whole new resources from the money they have available. They had a hit game, they're using the profits from that hit game to expand, the end.

Maybe your story arc works in other cases, but it doesn't seem very applicable to the situation we're seeing in the OP.
It's a direct consequence of their failures because Monster Hunter is one of their few remaining successful ips, they destroyed all the others, i mean ok Megaman was not that profitable but what about their many other sleeping ips? Why outsourcing games like DMC and RE:Operation Racoon City or making RE an action?
Just like Square Enix Capcom doesn't see its faults and blame console gamers.
 

Opiate

Member
It's a direct consequence of their failures because Monster Hunter is one of their few remaining successful ips, they destroyed all the others, i mean ok Megaman was not that profitable but what about their many other sleeping ips? Why outsourcing games like DMC and RE:Operation Racoon City or making RE an action?
Just like Square Enix Capcom doesn't see its faults and blame console gamers.

Console gamers have been persistently unprofitable for the better part of a generation, in aggregate -- well, outside of the casual market, a group which has now been captured by mobile. There has been stagnant console revenue for years now, and the revenue has even shrunk over the last year in particular.

It's really the only time when you can "blame" a consumer group; if an industry is finding themselves losing money or seeing no growth in a specific market, expect them to migrate out of it or expand outside in other directions.
 

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
Console gamers have been persistently unprofitable for the better part of a generation, in aggregate -- well, outside of the casual market, that is, a group which has now been captured by mobile. There has been stagnant console revenue for years now, and the revenue has even shrunk in the last year.

It's really the only time when you can "blame" a consumer group; if an industry is finding themselves losing money or seeing no growth in a specific market, expect them to migrate out of it or expand outside in other directions.

The console market is hard, standards are high, you need lots of money, there's a lot of competition and there are many things that can go wrong, but if you you ignore faithful fans' requests and make bad games and/or games no one asked for sorry but you can't blame gamers if they don't reward you, it's all your fault.
 

Porcile

Member
In this case, their expansion is a direct consequence of their success, not failure; they have profits, they're using them.

This is not a case of a company running away with its tail tucked between its legs, going from one failure to the next. They are not, in this specific case, taking pre-existing resources and moving them over to mobile, but are creating whole new resources from the money they have available. They had a hit game, they're using the profits from that hit game to expand, the end.

Maybe your story arc works in other cases, but it doesn't seem very applicable to the situation we're seeing in the OP.

The game was successful - one of their few successes even - so surely re-investing into the audience which is knowingly dependable to deliver healthy profits is wiser idea than than investing vast sums and resources into markets within which you have no history? History proves the casual market has no allegiance to brands and success can be relatively short lived.

Nintendo did it, and did it well, for a period. Now, that casual market has moved on from them. The difference is that they always had their strong legacy IP's as dependable sources of income. We'll wait and see how it works out for Wii U, but the success of 3DS has been built around the successful management of their existing properties. That's possible because Nintendo kept their existing audience happy with strong games , even in the height of their casual successes. Capcom should be doing the same, not watering down their IP's and estranging their core audience.
 

Opiate

Member
The console market is hard, standards are high, you need lots of money, there's a lot of competition and there are many things that can go wrong, but if you you ignore faithful fans' requests and make bad games and/or games no one asked for sorry but you can't blame gamers if they don't reward you, it's all your fault.

Or you can just go to a different market that is more likely to be profitable. That's not a fault; that's intelligent business management.

More than a handful of companies will stick around, because either 1) their skillset won't allow them to leave, and they aren't well suited to new markets even if those markets are more profitable, or 2) they are one of the kings whose bread is buttered by the "hardcore" market. Bethesda, for example. Rockstar as another. The winners keep winning more, and everyone else shrinks as the middle ground rapidly disappears.

"Blame" implies that console games are in some way better, or inherently superior, or something. They are one kind of game; mobile games are another. If mobile games are more profitable or show persistently increasing revenue generation, expect most of the expansion to continue there until the pattern of growth ceases. That's not bad or good, it's just market forces at work.
 

Opiate

Member
The game was successful - one of their few successes even - so surely re-investing into the audience which is knowingly dependable to deliver healthy profits is wiser idea than than investing vast sums and resources into markets within which you have no history? History proves the casual market has no allegiance to brands and success can be relatively short lived.

Okay, let's follow this through. When are you suggesting Capcom should invest in mobile?

Earlier, you seemed to be arguing that we "can blame" Capcom for their failures and this is leading them down a continuing path to irrelevancy.

Now in this particular case Capcom is actually quite successful, and therefore they shouldn't invest in mobile and should reinvest the money back in to the market their success came from.

In other words, you don't seem to leave any plausible scenario where Capcom should invest in mobile. Should they invest in mobile if they aren't successful in console development? Or if they are? Or is it neither? These are honest questions.
 

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
Or you can just go to a different market that is more likely to be profitable. That's not a fault; that's intelligent business management.

More than a handful of companies will stick around, because either 1) their skillset won't allow them to leave, and they aren't well suited to new markets even if those markets are more profitable, or 2) they are one of the kings whose bread is buttered by the "hardcore" market. Bethesda, for example. Rockstar as another.

"Blame" implies that console games are in some way better, or inherently superior, or something. They are one kind of game; mobile games are another. If mobile games are more profitable or show persistently increasing revenue generation, expect most of the expansion to continue there until the pattern of growth ceases. That's not bad or good, it's just market forces at work.

I agree with all you said, mobile market is probably safer and more profitable so it's a good idea to expand there, but it's not console gamers' fault if they don't buy bad games or games no one asked for, like any market if you take the wrong choices you get punished.
 

Coxy

Member
No, it's quite true. What you've provided are anecdotes -- it would be like me relying exclusively on examples of Capcom to "prove" that mobile is growing. The increasing revenue of mobile is not a secret and is extremely clear. Examples:

http://www.insidemobileapps.com/201...ly-earnings-for-android-ios-gaming-companies/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13846_3-20006056-62.html

http://www.techinasia.com/mobile-gaming-revenue/

It's important not to get sucked in by anecdotes and the general notion that mobile isn't a panacea (which, of course, it isn't). I think the bigger takeaway from the article you posted is that making a game for iOS does not equate to instant huge profits. Which is true, of course. But we have to look at averages, and on average iOS/Android are growing steadily and significantly and at a much faster clip than consoles have (which have actually been shrinking recently).

those are years old articles from when mobile gaming was in the rise in 2010, projecting a future which is not the future we are living in

this is the reality
http://www.emarketer.com/Article/Mobile-Gaming-Revenues-Lag-Behind-Other-Channels/1010328
 

Porcile

Member
Okay, let's follow this through. When are you suggesting Capcom should invest in mobile?

Earlier, you seemed to be arguing that we "can blame" Capcom for their failures and this is leading them down a continuing path to irrelevancy.

Now in this particular case Capcom is actually quite successful, and therefore they shouldn't invest in mobile and should reinvest the money back in to the market their success came from.

In other words, you don't seem to leave any plausible scenario where Capcom should invest in mobile. Should they invest in mobile if they aren't successful in console development? Or if they are? Or is it neither? These are honest questions.

I'm arguing that Capcom need to regain a firm footing in their historically successful markets, with their historically successful I.P's because the mobile market is not a proven long term venture. So I'm not saying that they should NEVER invest in mobile, but knowing Capcom (and proven with Breath of Fire 6) they aren't going to blaze a trail of adventurous new I.P's.
 
I think Capcom is smart in investing big on mobile, and hopefully that will allow them to keep investing big on the core market too. Like studios that have t.v and cinema productions going on.

Hopefully.
 

Opiate

Member
those are years old articles from when mobile gaming was in the rise in 2010, projecting a future which is not the future we are living in

this is the reality
http://www.emarketer.com/Article/Mobile-Gaming-Revenues-Lag-Behind-Other-Channels/1010328

I deliberately included articles from a variety of times -- 2010, 2011, and 2012 -- so that it was clear it wasn't just some notion that had occurred to us this year. It isn't like the "hey this mobile gaming thing is getting pretty big now, huh?" idea suddenly just arrived; it's been an ongoing theme since a few months after the inception of the iOS appstore.

As for the article you posted, did you even read the article? A direct quotation from the article:

mobile gamers now make up the largest and fastest-growing segment of the gaming population

The chart included:

154417.gif


The revenue has quadrupled in the last three years and they expect it to increase by nearly 2.5x over the next four in the article you just posted. The criticism of mobile in that article isn't that it's stopped growing or isn't seeing revenue gains; it's that it hasn't eclipsed console revenue yet. Which is, of course, true.
 

Opiate

Member
I'm arguing that Capcom need to regain a firm footing in their historically successful markets, with their historically successful I.P's because the mobile market is not a proven long term venture. So I'm not saying that they should NEVER invest in mobile, but knowing Capcom (and proven with Breath of Fire 6) they aren't going to blaze a trail of adventurous new I.P's.

Okay, so for practical purposes, you're saying Capcom shouldn't invest in mobile -- or rather, they shouldn't invest unless and until they not only have big successes like Monster Hunter, but many big successes. That is extremely unlikely to occur, because only a couple of publishers have more than a couple big hits. I do not think that is either reasonable or prudent.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
In one thread, some people hate Capcom's foray into mobile. In another thread, some people want Nintendo to move into mobile. This forum is so fun. =)

I don't know which thread you're referring to, but I think the nintendo hardware business getting into mobile would be a good thing. If they made a damn good game console that also had phone tech, I'd have no problem with Capcom moving to that platform.

However mobiles with limited hardware capability and inputs that are limited to tilt and touchscreens really limits what you can do with that platform. It's hard to see any major video game company move in that direction.
 

Porcile

Member
Okay, so for practical purposes, you're saying Capcom shouldn't invest in mobile -- or rather, they shouldn't invest unless and until they not only have big successes like Monster Hunter, but many big successes. That is extremely unlikely to occur, because only a couple of publishers have more than a couple big hits. I do not think that is either reasonable or prudent.

...but their trend of producing games of mixed quality and bloated budgets with resulting underwhelming commercial performance is prudent and responsible? You can't just act like Capcom haven't alienated their core fanbase.
 

Rootbeer

Banned
So, take 4 billion yen made by selling to handheld gamers and invest it in in a platform a lot of them probably have no interest in playing a game like MH on? Great way to leave your userbase in the dust! Take note of who is keeping you afloat, Capcom.

Work towards the future, sure, but how well are the mobile efforst of companies like Square-Enix turning out? All these $15-20 games where half of them look like they were made on RPG Maker and the other half are gorgeous -- but one thing they all have in common, all of them are crippled by imprecise touch control interfaces that often require you to place your thumbs on the screen covering up a good 1/3 of what's going on, Ugh!

iOS and Android are great platforms, but until the problem with controls is truly worked out, I simply can't get myself to care about gaming on them. I'm sick of trying to force myself to play a game that would benefit greatly from actual buttons and/or analog sticks completely on a touch screen.

People on both the hardware and software end need to not just realize but take actions towards addressing the FACT that touch controls have about as many shortcomings as strengths, particularly when we are talking about games. And I want a solution as beautifully designed and implemented as we see on modern core-gamer grade hardware such as the Dualshock 4 (or at least the Vita)

Apple seems to think they can add some new SDK stuff and let the third party manufaturers work out the rest. So far it's not working if the first efforts being released by these companies is anything to go by. I happen to think Apple would make a fabulous, beautiful and intuitive gamepad if they tried. But they have long history of not giving a shit about gaming.
 

Opiate

Member
...but their trend of producing games of mixed quality and bloated budgets with resulting underwhelming commercial performance is prudent and responsible? You can't just act like Capcom haven't alienated their core fanbase.

In this specific case, they have not been irresponsible. They have done very well, and they are expanding accordingly.

If you want to talk broadly, I very much can say they haven't alienated their consumers. They've done better than most publishers this generation (Take 2, EA, Sony, Midway, and of course THQ, among others), so I really have no objective way to respond to a vague argument such as "they've alienated their fans."

If this "they've alienated their core fanbase" argument is a qualitative judgement that has no bearing on financial analysis, then I suppose my answer is "I don't care." I'm a very business minded person, and quite frankly I don't play any of Capcom's games. I think most of them are bad, including the ones you probably like.
 

Glass Rebel

Member
In this specific case, they have not been irresponsible. They have done very well, and they are expanding accordingly.

If you want to talk broadly, I very much can say they haven't alienated their consumers. They've done better than most publishers this generation (Take 2, EA, Sony, Midway, and of course THQ, among others), so I really have no objective way to respond to a vague argument such as "they've alienated their fans."

If this "they've alienated their core fanbase" argument is a qualitative judgement that has no bearing on financial analysis, then I suppose my answer is "I don't care." I'm a very business minded person, and quite frankly I don't play any of Capcom's games. I think most of them are bad, including the ones you probably like.

I think the problem is that Capcom's missteps have only started in the last 1-2 years so it's hard to see what the long-term effects will be. Devil May Cry, Resident Evil 6, Lost Planet 3, their treatment of the FGC with MvsC3 etc. Not that I disagree with you, just trying to explain where others are coming from.
 

Chindogg

Member
So....

Instead of chasing absurdly stupid CoD numbers, pubs now want to chase absurdly stupid PnG numbers?

I really hate the nearsightedness of game publishers lately. What ever happened to making B games? Surely a cheap Final Fight game on consoles would be easy sales.
 
8knRayb.gif


(yes, yes, it makes sense businesswise, but I can still hope it fails so damn hard)
Pretty much my reaction. It's their best bet to stop losing money, but as a fan I'm indifferent at best and really pissed off to have things I love relegated to mobile markets at worst.

Can't blame them for going this route, will still blame the fuck outta them for placing themselves in the position of having to go this route.
 

No-Ink

Banned
"So, Capcom. Are you going to use those profits to help bring tMH4 over to us? Seems like the best idea to do tha- Oh.... just put all the profits into mobile?.....just to make empty microtransaction mobile phone games?... Oh?........oh........"
 

Skinpop

Member
A japanese friend of mine told me the other day that interest for smartphones is beginning to dwindle, that there is a counter reaction to the always connected social media centric style of those products and that regular ke-tai(japanese cellphones) sales are increasing again(he said they are selling really really well). He basically said that the boom is over and that a lot of people aren't happy with how smarphones have changed how we interact with each other.

I have no idea as to how accurate any of this is but it wouldn't surprise me if there is some(even just a little) truth to it. When I visited japan this summer quite a few of my friends were thinking about getting a ke-tai as their next phone(they all have smartphones) which surprised me.

As for gaming in general, i get the feeling people not only have moved over to mobile gaming(and handhelds) but overall play less than ten years ago.
 

Ulumsk

Member
These days I actually think twice before giving Capcom money. I feel like I'm enabling a drug addict or something.
 

Goliath

Member
A japanese friend of mine told me the other day that interest for smartphones are beginning to dwindle, that there is a counter reaction to the always connected social media centric style of those products and that regular ke-tai(japanese cellphones) sales are increasing again(he said they are selling really really well). He basically said that the boom is over and that a lot of people aren't happy with how smarphones have changed how we interact with each other.

I have no idea as to how accurate any of this is but it wouldn't surprise me if there is some(even just a little) truth to it. When I visited japan this summer quite a few of my friends were thinking about getting a ke-tai as their next phone(they all have smartphones) which surprised me.

As for gaming in general, i get the feeling people not only have moved over to mobile gaming(and handhelds) but overall play less than ten years ago.

I was there three weeks ago and EVERYONE was plugged into either a cell phone or a DS. And their cellphone accessories like phone straps and such are EVERYWHERE. I think as long as they have long commutes and plenty of public transportion use they will remain plugged in. I do hope that their might be some truth to your friends observations however.
 

Mael

Member
Console gamers have been persistently unprofitable for the better part of a generation, in aggregate -- well, outside of the casual market, a group which has now been captured by mobile. There has been stagnant console revenue for years now, and the revenue has even shrunk over the last year in particular.

It's really the only time when you can "blame" a consumer group; if an industry is finding themselves losing money or seeing no growth in a specific market, expect them to migrate out of it or expand outside in other directions.

That rather funny when you think about it.
For years hardcore gamers were crying over casuals staining their precious hobby and now they get their wish with the casuals finally leaving the console business and now they cry because the business is leaving with them.
 

Shengar

Member
Smartphones are becoming more powerful all the time. You can pair a Dual Shock with an Android smartphone. You can play XCOM and The Walking Dead and soon Dragon Quest 8 on your iPhone. Sure, the fundamental nature of phones as portable devices means that you can't currently have the home console experience, but it probably won't be long until you can just sit in your living room, pair a controller to your phone, and stream a game from your phone to your TV, thus letting you play in a setting much like one would play a game on a home console. You can already use solutions like Airplay or Miracast to stream stuff to a box hooked up to your TV, and it's only a matter of time before those solutions reduce the lag to levels such that you can feasibly play real-time games with them. I think this stuff may be a lot closer than you think.
The problem with mobile isn't the technology. We know that most smartphone now capable of connecting to dedicated controller. Even both Android and iPhone are getting their own controller peripheral. Actual problem with mobile as gaming device is it nature as multimedia gadget for mass market. Smartphone, Android especially, have wide array of phones selection, differentiated by their specs power. From lower phone that only cost $70 bucks to $600 ultra-high end phone that is more powerful than Vita, that is diversity of smartphone mobile. This is where the problem lies, as developer or publisher will try to create games that could played on widest array of smartphones as possible. And Capcom exactly the type that try this kind of strategy for mobile.

A japanese friend of mine told me the other day that interest for smartphones are beginning to dwindle, that there is a counter reaction to the always connected social media centric style of those products and that regular ke-tai(japanese cellphones) sales are increasing again(he said they are selling really really well). He basically said that the boom is over and that a lot of people aren't happy with how smarphones have changed how we interact with each other.

I have no idea as to how accurate any of this is but it wouldn't surprise me if there is some(even just a little) truth to it. When I visited japan this summer quite a few of my friends were thinking about getting a ke-tai as their next phone(they all have smartphones) which surprised me.

As for gaming in general, i get the feeling people not only have moved over to mobile gaming(and handhelds) but overall play less than ten years ago.

Oh God, I hope this is true D:
 
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