Part of that is accepting your punishment. If they feel what they did was right, they should be willing to endure their jail sentences, or fight them via the proper channels. NOT break out of jail because they don't feel like they deserve to be there.
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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos
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Part of that is accepting your punishment. If they feel what they did was right, they should be willing to endure their jail sentences, or fight them via the proper channels. NOT break out of jail because they don't feel like they deserve to be there.
Just saw the midnight screening.
The pacing and character development was fantastic.
That lead up to the final fight between Iron-Man and CA/WS was brilliant, as was the fight itself! The sheer range of emotions on Stark's face when the revelation happened was so damn nuanced and believable! Not gonna lie, this movie made me infinitely more sympathetic to Stark's cause, as opposed to CA's.
And the humour! The second Spider-Man and Ant-Man entered, the movie was elevated to new heights; the humour was tasteful and masterfully timed, for example, the "Stank" moment that followed the emotional scene between Stark and Rhodes rehabbing. It was all so well done.
And then there's Black Panther; what an imposing and well balanced character. That entire character arc, culminating with him preventing Zemo's suicide, was incredibly cathartic. In fact, every new character was fleshed out well, and new layers of development was given to established characters.
The Russo brothers and their writers are insanely talented at what they do; I simply cannot wait to see what they have in store for the Infinity War films.
I just wish they were able to direct AoU instead of Whedon; AoU was...far too disappointing of a film.
The pacing and character development was fantastic.
That lead up to the final fight between Iron-Man and CA/WS was brilliant, as was the fight itself! The sheer range of emotions on Stark's face when the revelation happened was so damn nuanced and believable! Not gonna lie, this movie made me infinitely more sympathetic to Stark's cause, as opposed to CA's.
And the humour! The second Spider-Man and Ant-Man entered, the movie was elevated to new heights; the humour was tasteful and masterfully timed, for example, the "Stank" moment that followed the emotional scene between Stark and Rhodes rehabbing. It was all so well done.
And then there's Black Panther; what an imposing and well balanced character. That entire character arc, culminating with him preventing Zemo's suicide, was incredibly cathartic. In fact, every new character was fleshed out well, and new layers of development was given to established characters.
The Russo brothers and their writers are insanely talented at what they do; I simply cannot wait to see what they have in store for the Infinity War films.
I just wish they were able to direct AoU instead of Whedon; AoU was...far too disappointing of a film.
I'm amazed that people don't understand why Tony went off the rails at the end. It's because he just WATCHED his parents get murdered. Yes, the conflict with Cap has made him a bit shooken up, and Rhodey getting hurt just added to that, but the move took the time to show that he hadn't gotten over the loss of his parents. It dedicated an entire scene to Tony's loss and regret. And now, all at once, he finds out that his parents were murdered, that Cap knew, that the murderer is standing right next to him, and he gets to watch the entire thing happen.
Yeah, he's going to go nuts. Consumed by vengeance...as was Zemo...and Panther...hell, Panther even says it flat out.
Yeah, he's going to go nuts. Consumed by vengeance...as was Zemo...and Panther...hell, Panther even says it flat out.
If the Avengers find out a nuke is about to go off in Nigeria and only they can stop it, should they keep respecting that and just let it go off, killing a whole bunch of people?
Some examples of criminals who did not accept any punishment for their violent actions: Jefferson, Washington, Franklin
Captain America is just living up to his namesake.
It looks off because of shitty motion capture. Other movies didn't have this problem.
If they feel the need to act, fine. But they should then accept the judgment of the Nigerian legal system.
JackBauer24
Member
I can understand to a point, but let's say a nuke was being smuggled into the country. Are we to believe that regular soldiers could have handled Crossbones and his men? I mean we're talking about a universe where alien ships come out of portals and superheroes exist.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
The way Ross acted at the end towards Tony made it clear to me that #teamcap was right.
But I totally understood Tony and his teams motivations up until the airport. Which is most of the reason why the movie worked so well.
God. I jus want to go see it again!!
Wasn't a similar question posed about Superman to Senator Finch? Both movies I think failed to answer this question. Left it open to interpretation and your own individual moral stances.
Are the Avengers declaring themselves a sovereign state? No, they operating in other states, and should follow those states' laws.
ClosingADoor
Member
They were in a jail without process somewhere of the coast. I don't think they were going to get a trial.
Stark got a raw deal out of the entire affair; unable to carry out his justice/revenge for his parents; best friend borderline paralyzed; his Avengers crew has been splintered; his guilt over all those dead people because of his crew's actions in the previous films....
I just hope Vision and Spider-Man don't betray this guy in the coming films....
That scene with him claiming "You don't deserve that shield, it was my father's", or something to that effect, was so poignant.
I love you Stark <3
T_T
...But that's just, like, your opinion man.
Seriously, I agree with the princple of the vigilantism thing. But the Avengers have proven themselves to be a global asset. As I said, for the good of the world, they should be treated like heroes, not outlaws; and the law should change to accomodate them. If it won't, the law is wrong and evil and needs to be ignored or non-lethally punched in the face.
You seem to think being a criminal makes a person wrong. I would disagree, Cap would disagree, and I think most people would disagree.
One look at how Wanda was kept in the Raft should let you know how fucked up it is. She was entirely in control of her abilities at all times across AoU and Civil War and willingly gave herself up for arrest (along with the others), but they lock her up like she was criminally insane. Ross doesn't give a shit.
Already answered above, but if they feel the need to act, they should be willing to accept the ramifications of those actions.
Yep, two sides opposing each other, both consistent with their own motivation and personalities, neither evil. How often does that happens? Not only on superhero movies, but action movies in general? Heck, even sports movies often play one team as kind of evil.
How many conflicts in movie history were done by two sides who had as good a point as these two sides had?
How many conflicts in movie history were done by two sides who had as good a point as these two sides had?
I never said that, not even close. I do think that the Avengers using force to escape judgment for their actions is wrong.
lol, well if that were to happen, and if the other nations of the earth recognized this as a sovereign nation, then they can pass whatever laws they want there. But the Avengers should still follow other countries laws while in them.
JackBauer24
Member
Don't really see how anything that the Avengers did and the outcome thereafter is any different than say police intervening during a shootout and an innocent bystander getting shot or on a larger scale a war between two sides. There are always civilian casualties.
Glass Rebel
Member
Nah, I loved Steve in CW.
Being a sort of mentor to Wanda. Debating the Accords with Tony. Everything surrounding Peggy's funeral. And of course the entire third act.
The only thing that was missing for me was more interaction with T'Challa.
That's the point. The police have the authority to engage in such actions, authority given to them by the government which comes from the people.
The Avengers have NONE of that authority. They do things because they want to and they are strong enough to pull it off.
The thing is if it's fine for them to act that once, what if it happens again to another country while they sit in Nigerian prison?
Is it then ok for them to break out again and save that other country or should they serve their penalty in Nigeria first?
It'll be a non-stop cycle of them breaking out to save people.
Apologies for misunderstanding you.
But to go back to the bomb scenario: you'd say they should break the law to save lives, but then accept punishment. How can they possibly do that when accepting punishment - being impisoned on the Raft - will mean the loss of more innocent lives that only they can save?
JackBauer24
Member
True, but there's always an authority above another. Town police, county, state, Feds, military, etc...Sure The Avengers aren't and were never given authority, but no organized force could handle anything that The Avengers have dealt with. I mean not to sound smug, but would a Bat Signal only work in these rare situations?
Vision was also confused and distracted from his vibranium boner for SWitch, which he shouldn't be because he is synthetic/artificial.
I think they nicely build Visions inner conflict up for the next movie he's going to be in. (Infinity war 1 or GotG2? or even in BP movie?)
Really liked his last scene, sitting there, playing with the chess figure. This guy has some inner demons to fight.
Just got out!
What a movie. I loved how every character was written in this. I was particularly suprised that I enjoyed Hawkeye since I thought Renner was awful in the previous movies. Black Panther was fantastic(I also made sure to get his cup topper!) and spiderman was also amazing.
Overall I enjoyed the hell out of it and I can't wait to see it again on Saturday with my coworkers.
What a movie. I loved how every character was written in this. I was particularly suprised that I enjoyed Hawkeye since I thought Renner was awful in the previous movies. Black Panther was fantastic(I also made sure to get his cup topper!) and spiderman was also amazing.
Overall I enjoyed the hell out of it and I can't wait to see it again on Saturday with my coworkers.
roflwaffles
Member
I thought everyone shined except for War Machine and maybe Vision. Every other character had a great scene but for the most part, I thought Rhodey just played a government stooge.
JackBauer24
Member
One of the best jokes was the tongue in cheek, "bow and arrow guy" jab.
It's a conundrum. At that point the question becomes what should the state do to stop them from breaking out. Execution? Im against capital punishment so I can't support that. Build better prisons I suppose.
The point is, no individual should have the power that Cap claims as his own. Because what happens when the moral imperative that guides Cap becomes "I fight for truth and justice. God's truth and justice. And God says kill all the Gays."
Now, we know this wouldn't happen, because it's a movie and Cap's not like that and we KNOW that. But that is not the logic people in this fictional universe should be using, because to them it's real life, and that much power in any one person's hands is a terrifying thing.
And the UN recognized this. Which is why they said "you can keep working, but from now on there will be oversight."
bananafactory
Banned
I loved Zemo. One of my favourite MCU villains
That nickname provided some stark comedy.
WaterAstro
Member
I was surprised Zemo wasn't going canon as a hydra agent.
It was kind of weird, but these non-traditional villains are somewhat cool.
It was kind of weird, but these non-traditional villains are somewhat cool.
Which is why people in this universe is right in wanting the accords, which were signed, and cap will now operante as a clandestine and people in this universe will probably feel like you do, but there is no reason for us to share that feeling. We know captain america will do what is right, it is our privilege as viewers.
I understanding being against captain america os you live on the MCU, but not really if you are a movie viewer.
BoosterDuck
Banned
you can't call Spider-Man's costume ass with that deadpool avatar
Considering what he managed to accomplish, I get the feeling he'll get recruited by Hydra later and made a Baron.
I think Cap makes Virtue Ethicists of (almost) all of us.
If and when he (or any of the Avengers) start murdering innocent people, then obviously I'd support initiatives to treat him like a criminal. But right now, he's a good guy doing good stuff; as are the Avengers as a unit. They have done nothing with the intention of harming others. They have proven themselves to be capable of shouldering the great repsonsibility their power affords them. They have saved the goddamn world from aliens on a day unlike any other.
The same cannot be said of anyone who would presume to hold them accountable for any laws they may break while saving billions of lives.
Nah, Ross will recruit him to serve as the leader of the Thunderbolts.
There is no more Hydra. If there is a new one, he'll be one of the founding members.
Tell that to the 14 (?) dead Wakandans. They died because of an organization that has no oversight, because of reasons they claimed were worthwhile.
The arguments Ross makes in the film are VALID. The Avengers were straight up responsible for what happened in Sokovia. They CREATED Ultron. The Avengers have had their chance to run around without oversight, and they blew it.
There is no more Hydra. If there is a new one, he'll be one of the founding members.
I believe the guys in the beggining of Age of Ultron were Hydra and I THINK that some of the guys who wanted to buy the Yellowjacket in Ant-Man were also Hydra.
Ex-Hydra, free agents now. Hydra as an organization is gone.
Hydra was still around in Ultron. But they're gone now. In the movies Von Strucker was the last leader. In the TV side, they literally wiped out every remaining cell.
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