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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos
- Thread starter Son Of D
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I'm guessing it was based on Zola's formula, so the 5 Winter Soldats would be superior to Bucky but weaker than Steve.
Imperfected
Member
I think it's mostly that they know they're going to need an entire movie to really sell an audience on Wakanda. You want a teaser that lets the in-the-know audience know you're going for it, and hints to the general viewers there's something big there, but not so much happening that it feels like it begs immediate explanation.
AgentOtaku
Member
Anyone else feel the best joke in the entire film was:
"...Can you move your seat up?"
"no"
"...I hate you"
Seriously, I'm still in awe in how much something so fucking simple became the funniest bit in the movie
Also, film has replaced Avengers as the best superhero film in existence, period.
...and yes, it's Marvel's best film
"...Can you move your seat up?"
"no"
"...I hate you"
Seriously, I'm still in awe in how much something so fucking simple became the funniest bit in the movie
Also, film has replaced Avengers as the best superhero film in existence, period.
...and yes, it's Marvel's best film
neurosisxeno
Member
Why would Howard Stark have it though? Unless he was transporting it for SHIELD.
Cabbagehead
Member
Dude you can like them and that's fine. But I don't really have to explain why. I owe it to no one. They're not my taste it's simple as that. Others are trying to make a discussion around what i said.
Oh, I love silly and cheesy. I was just like, really? You going with that for BP? OK...
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Exactly. They can do good criticism, but they need to actually put time and effort into it, and they don't want to do that all the time. And why should they - it's not really why anyone's coming to the channel. They're coming for a fun, personality-driven bullshit session about movies everyone's recently watched. And on that level, they're a lot better than tons of film shows.
For example, I've tried Jahns and the other guy whose thumbnails are always their gaping mouths exhaling the name of their video. And they care about the criticism aspect more, and put more effort into that - but it's harder to sit through because I feel like a polyp on their vocal cords, I'm shoved in so tight. Plus their criticism isn't all that interesting or insightful half the time.
If given a choice between those "me, a camera, and 30 million quick cuts" guys, The Cinema Sins guys (GOD no), Angry Joe (shudder) or RLM? I'm taking RLM every time, and recommending those guys to anyone facing the same choice.
(although really, I'll probably go to filmspotting before I go to any of them. I prefer to read my criticism still, actually, but I'm old)
BewareTheBatsie
Member
I would assume it's a recreation since it was Erskine who created the original. And I get they were used then for the other Winter Soldiers, I just wonder what's the context because Howard Stark driving down a road with them. Presumably the serum itself is something like the one given to Bucky to give him his own similar abilities, but perhaps an unstable version since Zola would have uploaded his mind by that point, meaning it is a different one recreated which might explain why the five super soldiers were deemed harder to control compared to Bucky.
manfestival
Member
So I got done reading many peoples of thoughts and breakdowns of this movie. Far more intriguing than the stuff they pulled in batman vs superman. It is interesting enough that you can take one side over another and not really be "wrong" in this but definitely feel more on ironmans side after all of this. However, they more intelligently made tony stark more of a human fault than they did in the comics. He was way more poorly written during this period of time as a scapegoat. Essentially it was all tied to extremis making him the king of douches(despite there being plenty of logical reasoning) but most of the heroes are more emotional(thor).
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
Ever since Erskine died, the SSR and Howard were trying to reverse-engineer the serum again with Steve's blood. I guess he got some variant done between the 1940's and 1991, or Zola had some input on his end. Plus, freakin' Thunderbolt Ross had a variant of the serum in Incredible Hulk that he gave to Blonsky.
Of course, HYDRA didn't figure Vita-Rays into the equation, looks like.
... Aaaaand it just occurred to me that Howard and Maria Stark died in WINTER. Agh.
After WW2, Howard helped to fund SHIELD and eventually Zola got recruited (as post-war german scientists usually were in real life). It is possible that Zola moved the strings to have Howard and the serum in the same place so he could send the Winter Soldier there and deal with both issues at once.
Assuming Hydra is infiltrated both in the US and the Soviet sides; it really is a good plan: the US Hydra team manipulates SHIELD in giving Howard the serum; then Howard gets killed, the serum falls into Hydra hands, the USSR gets blamed and the US Hydra team gets away with it.
Cabbagehead
Member
Then why did you talk about them in the first place?
If your answer is "someone else brought it up", then realize that kind of answer is weak and thoughtless.
Cabbagehead
Member
Let it go.
I like Struckmann more than Jahns but yeah, RLM is for shits and giggles but thoughtful however the top tier to me...
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Yeah, I feel like it was just something to put Bucky on hold. Zemo is arrested, and he also killed that one guy who helped keep Bucky in control.
Would they just have to burn the book with the words in them to keep Bucky safe? I doubt anyone else out there in the world knows what they are and they seem to only be contained in that book.
Ya that was a weird plot hole, including Mom Stark's foreshadowing and them inexpicably going on a country drive carrying a supervillain wet dream. Maybe Howard just freshly eureka-ed an improved formula in his lab.
As for SHIELD having it, Zola experimented on Bucky with presumably a knockoff version, then brought it with him to SHIELD.
Cabbagehead
Member
I mean until they can figure out how to stop him from being a ticking time bomb if you use the right words and a constant target by Tony. Especially against someone like Thanos.
Then that was the best choice really. Plus Bucky wants this i'm sure.
the reasoning is purely behind scenes scripting and whatnot
you're taking the sense route which a lot of people do for these sorta things but it's a movie you made up; you can write ways for one of your must fun characters (and integral to one of your main dudes) to stick around. specially when his evilness is kinda done
it's just very transparent. even the delivery of the lines
lines might as well had been:
- you sure you wanna go back to the ice?
- yeah I probably play no big part in Infinity War lol you have like 40 dudes
manfestival
Member
also the lack of vision action during the scene at the airport was really disappointing. However I guess I can see their perspective. It really bugged me that the only real action of him was TKing warmachine
Winnie the Pimp
Member
Speaking of Thanos by the way... i just got back from seeing the movie, and while i enjoyed it, i really felt it was kinda too much grounded in "reality" if that makes any sense, considering Thanos is supposedly right around the corner in some of the upcoming movies right? I mean, there was literally NOTHING pointing to Thanos in ANY capacity in this one was there?
He still is around; they can just unfreeze them whenever they want.
Vision's speech about the stone on his forehead. But yeah, I have no idea how you go from this to something like Infinity War.
good
i'll take whatever I can get in terms of separating these movies from each other
and this one already suffers greatly compared to Winter Soldier in that sense
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Wait wasn't Maria Stark "foreshadowing" a part of the programme? Like "Hey son, we die soon"
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I was a little surprised at how underwhelmed they are with it, but they have valid reasons for feeling that way, save for a couple (IMO).
It was interesting to watch their review right after I watched Kevin Smith's review in which him and his partner couldn't stop gushing about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDAlnewl1A4
Cabbagehead
Member
I mean it's not really me making anything up. Its just implied and it's a logical conclusion. Next to it being classic set up as well. One does not invalidate the other, we're both right.
Bucky's story is over pretty much . His brain washing is pretty deep seeded and the things he did will never leave him. Though i wonder if Doctor Strange or Vision could help him.
Oops so Tony was putting his thoughts into her mouth?
well its a subjective thing of course
its just that you get glimpses of that comradery and when it can finally come back they just shut it down. it bummed me out particularly cause I liked that, and would have liked to see it pay off rather than be cut when that arc is done
Why would there be? it's not an Avengers movie
Do you think he pulls the strings behind everything?
Wakanda tech is probably the most advanced on the planet. They can totally cure the Winter Soldier.
timetokill
Banned
Man, they made Black Widow a boss in this one. Loved her scenes, especially in the beginning. Also, EASILY the best Spiderman put to film. No question. I wanted to laugh when Tony told him at the end of the airport fight, essentially, "you're out of the movie."
Also, glad that BP wasn't as OP as a lot of you make him sound. Dude was getting tossed around plenty.
So here's my Q:
During the airport fight, they KNOW Cap/Bucky are running to the jet. Vision lasers a tower to block their path, and Scarlet Witch holds up the tower.
Why doesn't Vision just laser the shit out of the jet itself? Why doesn't Iron Man/War Machine whoever just nuke the shit out of it?
Yeah, Tony is basically setting up his entire premise and the reason for his flip-out later in the film by saying, "Yeah my parents died and I was too fucked up to deal with it and I still mostly haven't, so I spent like 11 million making some therapy thing for me, I mean what the hell you guys." And his mom was guilt-tripping him ("say something to your father, it's the last time you can say anything to him" or whatever) during the thing because Tony feels guilty about their deaths.
Also, glad that BP wasn't as OP as a lot of you make him sound. Dude was getting tossed around plenty.
So here's my Q:
During the airport fight, they KNOW Cap/Bucky are running to the jet. Vision lasers a tower to block their path, and Scarlet Witch holds up the tower.
Why doesn't Vision just laser the shit out of the jet itself? Why doesn't Iron Man/War Machine whoever just nuke the shit out of it?
Yeah, Tony is basically setting up his entire premise and the reason for his flip-out later in the film by saying, "Yeah my parents died and I was too fucked up to deal with it and I still mostly haven't, so I spent like 11 million making some therapy thing for me, I mean what the hell you guys." And his mom was guilt-tripping him ("say something to your father, it's the last time you can say anything to him" or whatever) during the thing because Tony feels guilty about their deaths.
you're full of cop-outs arent ya
Cabbagehead
Member
Kevin Smith gushes about a lot of things. Sometimes i can't tell with him.
Now his friend i take a bit more serious.
Cap got virtually cut off from all the people from his past, from his actual time and life, in this film, that's what made that lil stinger with Bucky feel weird in how casually he took it
"well im scared of the modern world and im desperately attached to you and peggy because of it and peggy just died buuuut *dips his head into ice*"
let a man have his bro mannn. he earned it
"well im scared of the modern world and im desperately attached to you and peggy because of it and peggy just died buuuut *dips his head into ice*"
let a man have his bro mannn. he earned it
Yeah, it's tricky to know in that scene what actually happened and what is part of the VR scenario Tony designed.
Quinjets are expensive.
At this point, if you are not in an superheroic/supervillain organization, you may as well be "average" in this universe.
You don't think Wakanda can also help Bucky's mind?
Just saw it again and most of that whole end part of that scene, pretty much from as soon as Maria mentions how it is the last time they will be together, is not the actual memory but stuff put in there to help Tony cope with that moment and how it wished his last moment with them would have happened.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
Anyone else convinced that Steve will be back for Spider-Man? (As a counter-balance for Tony in influencing Peter's decisions in life.)
I'm also guessing they're keeping it under wraps due to the whole "there are stakes and someone might die"-angle.
I'm also guessing they're keeping it under wraps due to the whole "there are stakes and someone might die"-angle.
Cabbagehead
Member
I know it does suck big time, all the people he knows are going to sleep for good or for a long period of time. But hey he's got Carter hot ass grand daughter or niece...right...right?
Still feel weird about that. Even though it set up a fun moment.
phazedplasma
Member
if i could find one complaint about this movie it would be the completely uninspired music.
oh I agree
overall I mean
I was counting on a badass black panther drumming theme
I was so happy this was included in the movie.
I was surprised that this was included. It was great.
timetokill
Banned
:\
dip into the MIT "everybody gets free money" fund
i mean you're wrecking an airport anyway, why not go all the way
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