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[Brakke]

Ending was a mess. Bucky takes a nap and Cap sends a damn letter? Woefully insufficient and also weirdly reluctant to make strong claims about the new status quo.

Had a lot of fun tho. Just about every combination of peoples had good chemistry, buddy-style or rival-style. Since Tony and Pepper are on shaky ground, I hope Tony gets with Aunt May. Strong additions, too: Panther was dope, Spidey was fun.

It's weird af that Cap doesn't smooch that Carter lady until after he learns that she's his love's niece.

#TeamIronman tho. Cap is a clown. After aaaaaaall that, Bucky ends up in ice jail anyway smh.

 

[ShinoguTakeruKoeru]

Cap got virtually cut off from all the people from his past, from his actual time and life, in this film, that's what made that lil stinger with Bucky feel weird in how casually he took it

"well im scared of the modern world and im desperately attached to you and peggy because of it and peggy just died buuuut *dips his head into ice*"

let a man have his bro mannn. he earned it

It's Cap choosing to fly the Valkyrie into the ice again. It's Bucky's choice to go back under, not as a weapon to be used at HYDRA's calling, but in hopes that one day, in his heart, he can be a good man.

Once they scoop the words out of his brain, of course.

That's how I read it, anyway.

So here's my Q:

During the airport fight, they KNOW Cap/Bucky are running to the jet. Vision lasers a tower to block their path, and Scarlet Witch holds up the tower.

Why doesn't Vision just laser the shit out of the jet itself? Why doesn't Iron Man/War Machine whoever just nuke the shit out of it?

At the beginning, Cap and them are going for that helicopter. I think the Quinjet was how TeamIronMan got to the airport.

 

[Salsa]

It's Cap choosing to fly the Valkyrie into the ice again. It's Bucky's choice to go back under, not as a weapon to be used at HYDRA's calling, but in hopes that one day, in his heart, he can be a good man.

Once they scoop the words out of his brain, of course.

That's how I read it, anyway.

sure

hence you'd agree with me that, if done, it deserved a bigger moment

 

[Jonogunn]

So here's my Q:

During the airport fight, they KNOW Cap/Bucky are running to the jet. Vision lasers a tower to block their path, and Scarlet Witch holds up the tower.

Why doesn't Vision just laser the shit out of the jet itself? Why doesn't Iron Man/War Machine whoever just nuke the shit out of it?

The Russo Brothers are big fans of Honest Trailer. Maybe they were leaving some plot holes for them.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Ending was a mess. Bucky takes a nap and Cap sends a damn letter? Woefully insufficient and also weirdly reluctant to make strong claims about the new status quo.

Had a lot of fun tho. Just about every combination of peoples had good chemistry, buddy-style or rival-style. Since Tony and Pepper are on shaky ground, I hope Tony gets with Aunt May. Strong additions, too: Panther was dope, Spidey was fun.

It's weird af that Cap doesn't smooch that Carter lady until after he learns that she's his love's niece.

#TeamIronman tho. Cap is a clown. After aaaaaaall that, Bucky ends up in ice jail anyway smh.

I mean Bucky wants to take nap after all that. Wouldn't you? peace out bitches.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Yeah, Cap & Agent 13 doesn't work. It just doesn't.

 

[Sblargh]

sure

hence you'd agree with me that it deserved a bigger moment

This is the movie where everyone ends feeling like shit. For bigger moments that these characters deserve, please tune in for Phase 3 of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, starting November with Doctor Strange.

 

[Salsa]

Yeah, Cap & Agent 13 doesn't work. It just doesn't.

it won't tho

 

[Imperfected]

I think it's worth noting that even in the RLM review, you really do see the script doing its work: they start out talking about how the conflict is silly and pointless because one side is obviously right (and generally agreeing on this point)... and then it becomes quite obvious that Rich and Mike thought a different character (Tony and Steve, respectively) were the one who was obviously right.

They don't really follow up on it properly, of course, but it's sort of an unintentional thumbs-up to the underlying conflict.

 

[Sblargh]

Yeah, Cap & Agent 13 doesn't work. It just doesn't.

Watching it was like "wtf, this is out of nowhere" *bucky and sam smiles* *theater laughs* "aww, who gives a fuck?"

Marvel got me by the balls.

 

[Brakke]

Also I gotta commend this movie for basically holding together this ridiculously sprawling cast. But it definitely strained in spots. What's up with Hawkeye? Is he done now? Ant Man was fun to have around but like... what kind of dog did he even have in that fight? Spidey's brief appearance at least they acknowledged.

 

[Brian_FETO]

Just got back from it.... it was ok? Some notes

-Airport sequence was immaculate but it feels like the movie exists for that scene alone

-Spiderman is amazing but that Empire line was trying way too hard

-Why is Marisa Tomei Aunt May again?

-Scarlet Witch was awesome in this

-Took way too long to get going

-Way too many whiny "waah being a hero is hard" monologues

-Some of the action scenes (especially near the beginning of the movie) were awkward and/or dumb. Examples that spring to mind: Black Widow arm dragging a dude with like 5 cuts that look pretty obviously like different takes so it doesn't look fluid, that godawful on foot in traffic chase where Bucky grabs a motorcycle with his arm....come on

-Ending sequence in the lab was very cool. Reveal of the assassination was nice, fight was cool

-Seems like the movie forgot about the antagonist guy majority of the time to get caught up in its lame drama

------------------------------------------

I enjoyed the movie but didn't come anywhere close to Winter Soldier to me. The pacing jumped between WOW LOOK AT THAT ACTION to sitting in conference rooms. No middle ground and way too much bullshit. You can have a compelling scene without cars flipping over

 

[Cabbagehead]

Yeah, Cap & Agent 13 doesn't
work. It just doesn't.

It's really out of left field kind off. Even though it's hinted at in Winter Solider, the Caps like really, really old and may or may have not did her aunt. Its weird and it won't work out in the end.


Don't think i ever remember Steve roger having a Spider man moment.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

This movie was paced like a Roger Moore Bond flick. No shit.

 

[lucebuce12]

-Why is Marisa Tomei Aunt May again?

So that it isn't weird when Tony Stark hits on her night and day.

 

[Salsa]

some of the action editing was weird, yeah

some of the landing stuff. some very different takes stitched together and such

I mean you can't nitpick harder but i'd be lying if I didnt say I caught it and stayed in my head

 

[ShinoguTakeruKoeru]

sure

hence you'd agree with me that it deserved a bigger moment

At that point, make it to where Bucky commits suicide-by-Stark. Takes a repulsor blast that cuts through his heart, Cap's holding onto him and he's that 18-year-old skinny kid from Brooklyn again, Bucky's trying to reassure him, says that it's his atonement for the shit he did, that it's his choice, then dies.

And THEN Cap flips the fuck out.

So yeah, I'd agree that as a character moment it should have been... I wouldn't use the word bigger but yeah. Leaving it as a mid-credits thing was kinda iffy. Still liked it. >_>

 

[PsychBat!]

Yeah, Cap & Agent 13 doesn't work. It just doesn't.

 

[BewareTheBatsie]

The problem was Sharon getting barely any focus like with WS. It's the issue with them adapting Civil War instead of just a Cap movie, since it pushes Sharon way into the background.

I mean, I personally like them, but I understand pacing complaints even though I thought it was fine when looking at the two years between WS and this.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I think it's worth noting that even in the RLM review, you really do see the script doing its work: they start out talking about how the conflict is silly and pointless because one side is obviously right (and generally agreeing on this point)... and then it becomes quite obvious that Rich and Mike thought a different character (Tony and Steve, respectively) were the one who was obviously right.

They don't really follow up on it properly, of course, but it's sort of an unintentional thumbs-up to the underlying conflict.

They clearly didn't hate the film, but I concur with them that Winter Soldier is a far tighter, far more focused film. Civil War is two films jammed together - and as good as the airport sequence is, it feels like an Avengers film and then we leap back to a Captain America film.

 

[Cabbagehead]

At that point, make it to where Bucky commits suicide-by-Stark. Takes a repulsor blast that cuts through his heart, Cap's holding onto him and he's that 18-year-old skinny kid from Brooklyn again, Bucky's trying to reassure him, says that it's his atonement for the shit he did, that it's his choice, then dies.

And THEN Cap flips the fuck out.

So yeah, I'd agree that as a character moment it should have been... I wouldn't use the word bigger but yeah. Leaving it as a mid-credits thing was kinda iffy. Still liked it. >_>

That would have been super over the top. Plus what's to stop Cap from ending Tony in his rage, even after hearing what Bucky said. Also does he still go to Wakanda?

 

[Salsa]

I dont think they mentioned her by name once

both WS and this do a lousy job of making her even recognizable for the public at all, it works (or rather doesnt hurt) in WS cause whatever but now she suddenly has to take on this bigger role that was barely set up

it's an issue for sure

 

[ArtHands]

Just saw it again and most of that whole end part of that scene, pretty much from as soon as Maria mentions how it is the last time they will be together, is not the actual memory but stuff put in there to help Tony cope with that moment and how it wished his last moment with them would have happened.

Yah. Stark has explicitedly said that its a scenario that he now hoped will have happened. it was basically a 'what-if' scenario he made.

 

[timetokill]

Oh, another thing: I DEFINITELY felt like there were some moments where they went to shaky cam just to cover up the CG work or something. Way too much shaky cam at times.

that godawful on foot in traffic chase where Bucky grabs a motorcycle with his arm....come on

That was one of the most crowd-pleasing moments in the showing I went to.

 

[Brian_FETO]

So that it isn't weird when Tony Stark hits on her night and day.

It's a fun dynamic but really hard for me to buy into her as Aunt May.

 

[Salsa]

how bout that big ass waste of Martin Freeman

 

[Cabbagehead]

I dont think they mentioned her by name once

both WS and this do a lousy job of making her even recognizable for the public at all, it works (or rather doesnt hurt) in WS cause whatever but now she suddenly has to take on this bigger role that was barely set up

it's an issue for sure

Yeah they just kind of ghost her in the movie mid way.

 

[BewareTheBatsie]

I dont think they mentioned her by name once

both WS and this do a lousy job of making her even recognizable for the public at all, it works (or rather doesnt hurt) in WS cause whatever but now she suddenly has to take on this bigger role that was barely set up

it's an issue for sure

I do feel like Winter Soldier should have had a scene where he finds out she's the grand-niece of Peggy, even if Sharon says herself she didn't let it be known she was a Carter during her time at SHIELD.

 

[timetokill]

Also, yeah, Marisa Tomei is STILL hot

 

[FUBAR McDangles]

Really, really thought they had a missed opportunity with Ant-Man.

When Ross took away Cap and Falcon's gear, and Falcon says he knows a guy...it should have been him calling in Ant-Man to break in and steal their gear.

Not this Agent 13 bullshit. What a cop out.

 

[greatgeek]

how bout that big ass waste of Martin Freeman

Everett Ross will return (in Black Panther).

 

[Divvy]

how bout that big ass waste of Martin Freeman

He'll be in future movies, probably BP, since he's a BP character

 

[Salsa]

Everett Ross will return (in Black Panther).

He'll be in future movies, probably BP, since he's a BP character

bland man

just sayin they got a good actor. add some color to it

they probably will I hope?

it's a bummer to have to talk about these in a way where we justify what feel like movie flaws by "oh itll pay off" series-talk

Winter Soldier was fantastic cause it had none of that almost

 

[EatinOlives]

- I thought I understood the premise but with a little bit of thought, it makes no sense to me.... How the fuck are people bitching about accountability? These people fucking saved the world from catastrophe on multiple occasions.... Im sorry but people are going to fucking die regardless. Its impossible to save 100% of lives, but at least the death count is mitigated. How the fuck can you be blamed for an alien fucking invasion that appeared out of nowhere? If I was in that meeting, I would have walked out. Next time some fuck shit happens, how about you deal with that shit yourself.

I think it makes plenty of sense given how they pose it with the increasing correlation between the heroes appearing and the threats escalating the more heroes that appear. While it would be silly to say it's THEIR fault that villains are after them, there's little debate in that they do escalate shit and in nearly every climax it's gloves-off all-out punchfests and civilian casualty reduction always comes second.

From the side of the humans the exasperation is very understandable. It wouldn't be long until "The Avengers have assembled...again..." comes up on the news and everyone collective goes "oh for FUCK'S sake. Mayra get the kids in the car, we're going to the countryside...I hope our goddamn house is here when we come back...". Is this like a tornado or earthquake where people are simply supposed to "brace" for impact and hope that they don't get torn apart? Sokovia probably took the cake for a lot of civilians. The entire city was pulverized. There doesn't seem to be a real ceiling in that universe. A lot of people are probably thinking "what's next? An entire continent??"

This kinda goes double if you consider those who lose loved ones in the altercations. "Oh but we fought to protect you! Well, kinda...sorry about your kid...and your parents...aaand your wife...". The vague idea of "protection" probably wouldn't hold up as a valid justification for wanton death and destruction. At some point they do end up wondering if they really are fighting for people and not just themselves.

Also, yeah, Marisa Tomei is STILL hot

Perfect casting for Aunt May. Holy shit.

 

[Sblargh]

They clearly didn't hate the film, but I concur with them that Winter Soldier is a far tighter, far more focused film. Civil War is two films jammed together - and as good as the airport sequence is, it feels like an Avengers film and then we leap back to a Captain America film.

I agree, but as Jay points out, those are two fun movies.

I have no problem whatsoever with the tone shifts in this movie because both tones worked great for me; and the transition wasn't bad either. You got a serious movie, then cuts to the spiderman scene and it gets fun again, then the airport battle and at the end, Rhodes is shot down from the sky, now we are back to being a serious movie.

It didn't transitioned so out of nowhere.

 

[BewareTheBatsie]

Sharon being at the party scene during AOU would have greatly helped too, interacting with Steve in the way Sam was there too. Wonder if they couldn't get the actress or Whedon didn't bother writing her in.

 

[Imperfected]

I can't really be objective about the motorcycle grab because I'm a easy mark for big dumb car chases and truck-fu.

 

[Cabbagehead]

He'll be in future movies, probably BP, since he's a BP character

This...

I wonder how they will use him and claw in BP. Since claw isn't the one that does the deed to T'challa to set him on his path..

 

[timetokill]

I can't really be objective about the motorcycle grab because I'm a easy mark for big dumb car chases and truck-fu.

It's a total "rule of cool" moment. I dug it.

 

[Cabbagehead]

I agree, but as Jay points out, those are two fun movies.

I have no problem whatsoever with the tone shifts in this movie because both tones worked great for me; and the transition wasn't bad either. You got a serious movie, then cuts to the spiderman scene and it gets fun again, then the airport battle and at the end, Rhodes is shot down from the sky, now we are back to being a serious movie.

It didn't transitioned so out of nowhere.

Yeah that's an odd complaint. The movie was transitioning between serious, semi serious and fun the whole film. The tone was pretty consistent given the narrative plot lines.

 

[Renekton]

Really, really thought they had a missed opportunity with Ant-Man.

When Ross took away Cap and Falcon's gear, and Falcon says he knows a guy...it should have been him calling in Ant-Man to break in and steal their gear.

Not this Agent 13 bullshit. What a cop out.

You then need Pena to explain his leads for breaking into the system, with lip-synchs by Thunderbolt Ross, Rhodey and Agent 13.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

At that point, make it to where Bucky commits suicide-by-Stark. Takes a repulsor blast that cuts through his heart, Cap's holding onto him and he's that 18-year-old skinny kid from Brooklyn again, Bucky's trying to reassure him, says that it's his atonement for the shit he did, that it's his choice, then dies.

And THEN Cap flips the fuck out.

So yeah, I'd agree that as a character moment it should have been... I wouldn't use the word bigger but yeah. Leaving it as a mid-credits thing was kinda iffy. Still liked it. >_>

This would have been unacceptable as it would have killed my dreams for Bucky Cap.

That would have been super over the top. Plus what's to stop Cap from ending Tony in his rage, even after hearing what Bucky said. Also does he still go to Wakanda?

Alright on the other hand, killing Tony would have made for fun possibilities too...

 

[ShinoguTakeruKoeru]

That would have been super over the top. Plus what's to stop Cap from ending Tony in his rage, even after hearing what Bucky said. Also does he still go to Wakanda?

This would have been unacceptable as it would have killed my dreams for Bucky Cap.

Oh I'm totally not advocating the thing I wrote in my head, not at all. XD

Heck, I wonder if Tony would have been able to take the final shot, after beating down Bucky to his last breath. It's easy to say Yes because that's the drive that we see in the final fight, but... Hmm...

Then he pulls some dumb Jackie Chan shit here smh

Oh God, now I'm imagining Bucky as Hollywood Jackie Chan bumbling through Civil War going "I DON' WAN' TROUBLE!!"

 

[Brian_FETO]

I can't really be objective about the motorcycle grab because I'm a easy mark for big dumb car chases and truck-fu.

I liked Bucky in The Winter Soldier because he was a bad ass motherfucker throwing dudes into exploding airplanes and shit

Then he pulls some dumb Jackie Chan shit here smh

 

[Salsa]

bucky's a fucking badass and the only thing I didnt like about him was he totally dropped the mouth piece

 

[Cabbagehead]

This would have been unacceptable as it would have killed my dreams for Bucky Cap.

Alright on the other hand, killing Tony would have made for fun possibilities too...

lol killing Tony would have been crazy but also would put a huge whole in the team. Though i could see Tony, Bucky or Wanda getting axed in the next big films.

 

[Salsa]

they dropped Bucky's mouth piece cause he'd be way too cool and everyone else would look like lame ass plebes

 

[ShinoguTakeruKoeru]

Anybody else think that a significant part of Infinity War was planted, when Vision talked about his thoughts on the Mind Stone? I'm imagining that Thanos will crush Vision's head, pluck the stone out and pop it into his Power Glove, but Vision's soul or whatever will linger in the stone because HE'S MASTERED IT NOW and he'd be a significant factor in the 2nd film as to how the heroes stand a chance. Battling Thanos from within, that sorta thing.

 

[Freewheelin']

Liking this film a bit more in retrospect. Pushing its way towards the upper echelons of MCU, almost breaking free of that 6/10 ceiling.

Tony really really worked for me here, that's half its strength. Wasn't in love with Spiderman or Cap like everyone else, but RDJ killed it.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Anybody else think that a significant part of Infinity War was planted, when Vision talked about his thoughts on the Mind Stone? I'm imagining that Thanos will crush Vision's head, pluck the stone out and pop it into his Power Glove, but Vision's soul or whatever will linger in the stone because HE'S MASTERED IT NOW and he'd be a significant factor in the 2nd film as to how the heroes stand a chance. Battling Thanos from within, that sorta thing.

Yeah, that's a solid call.