The One and Done
Member
Scott: Pym told me to never trust a Stark.
Tony: Who are you again?
Scott: Come on man...
Absolute gold.
Tony: Who are you again?
Scott: Come on man...
Absolute gold.
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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos
- Thread starter Son Of D
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Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
Second viewing went just as well as the first.
Some smaller lines through out the whole film were really great. I do kind of hate that at no point did anyone say anything about Hydra, the nuke, Ultron or anything else as far as "well if you want to blame someone for some shit...."
Widow with the line about Banner "do you think he'd be on our side???" shit is great. Like come on Tony. Get your head right and thank your fucking lucky stars that he and Thor are both off on their own kick and not just pulling out little "team" to pieces...
Marvel on that other level. I want my Thor/Hulk buddy cop movie right meow.
Some smaller lines through out the whole film were really great. I do kind of hate that at no point did anyone say anything about Hydra, the nuke, Ultron or anything else as far as "well if you want to blame someone for some shit...."
Widow with the line about Banner "do you think he'd be on our side???" shit is great. Like come on Tony. Get your head right and thank your fucking lucky stars that he and Thor are both off on their own kick and not just pulling out little "team" to pieces...
Marvel on that other level. I want my Thor/Hulk buddy cop movie right meow.
IT DEMEANS THE CHARACTER! IT ROBS THE SUIT OF ITS PERSONAL SIGNIFICANCE!
Pai Pai Master
Banned
it was still peter's design. stark just made it with better materials.
There is no significance behind Peter's original costume heck in the comic he stated many times that he wished that he could get Aunt May to sew it for him as Peter was crap at sewing.
Plus I predict that Peter will eventually see Tony true colours and leave him as Tony can not be trusted.
Byakuya769
Member
So much Iron Man hate.. yeesh. I came away from the film siding with Cap (largely because I knew everything about Bucky), but I could see where Iron Man (and definitely Black Panther) were coming from.
I'm with you, but Marvel really has made Tony his own worst villain. He's quite often that way in the comics too.
I wish I could have gotten around to rewatching Civil War this weekend. Hopefully I'll catch it some time this week if I get an early afternoon at some point. Civil War might be the first movie I see 4 times in theaters. The only movies I've seen 3 times in theaters are both Avengers films. I'll definitely see this again at least once more but I can see going again twice before it finally leaves cinemas.
I never really got the hate. The entire time, he was correct in his own way. If they don't work together with the nations and innocents like that keep happening. They become the villains. He wasn't wrong once. He was trying to make it work with governments who clearly wanted to control them, while keeping his friends safe. He was trying to protect his "family".
And Cap not telling the truth. He had all the reason to be upset, more when it involved his parents.
Only one who felt took the L was BP. Wanting to kill Bucky off a bad photo from a guy in a wig and a mask... It would be like Batman killing someone because he overheard a rumor about Joe Shom down the street being a pedo.
Escape Goat
Member
You didnt see? Batman doesnt need a reason to kill people anymore.
SchrodingerC
Member
"Bucky, don't kill anyone."
Then Bucky and Steve proceeds to give half the German police force Blunt Force Trauma, paralysis, internal bleeding, or other potential life-threatening injuries.
Bucky in particular clocked a guy with a freakin' cinder block.
I know they were cornered, but some of the fighting seemed excessive lol.
Then Bucky and Steve proceeds to give half the German police force Blunt Force Trauma, paralysis, internal bleeding, or other potential life-threatening injuries.
Bucky in particular clocked a guy with a freakin' cinder block.
I know they were cornered, but some of the fighting seemed excessive lol.
Bucky is explicitly bad at not killing people, hence the joke where he throws the guy off the balcony and Steve has to catch him.
Starphoenix
Member
Not sure if this has been brought up before, but was the "Homecoming" line in the Winter Soldier brainwashing string-of-words a subtle easter egg hinting towards Spider-Man's film? And if so, were some of the other lines potentially references or pointing towards other easter eggs?
SchrodingerC
Member
Bucky even tossed Steve at a German PO, lol. Poor Steve became a punching bag for a good portion of the movie.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I felt the same way seeing it a second time-in fact I think I liked it more. The five Winter Soliders plot made more sense to me the second time around ,etc.
Even seeing it a second time, I was never bored by one second of it. It's a fantastic film-I could see it a third time soon and I'm looking forward to it.
There was an interview with either the Russos or the screenwriters and they just said something along the lines of "Oh well you know that everything has to mean something in the MCU". But I honestly don't think they were related, to be honest.
Feel like the Russo-written and directed movies are missing some of Whedon's charm and levity. I was surprised by how intense and violent this film was, and was also struck by the thematic parallels between this and Batman v. Superman. I enjoyed this movie but I actually think AoU was a better movie with a more ambitious concept.
If anything I think this movie is Marvel's way of saying they're done with handing out Ls to Tony. Every movie he's been in since Iron Man 3 has built up to it and even though you could say it's been a long time coming, it's probably not getting worse. I really don't think Spidey is going to go "oh Tony a shitter" in Homecoming. I'll be pretty annoyed if they do since Tony deserves better and he's clearly reached his absolute lowest already.
AoU's grandiose themes on evolution and humanity are hindered though under the weight of Whedon's wit. But I agree it was thematically more ambitious. I put AoU a hair below Civil War, personally.
Steve is responsible for most of the shit that goes wrong in this film, not Tony. If Tony was a full blown narcissist he wouldn't be able to process responsibility and guilt like he does, fyi. At least he's, y'know, allowing himself to experience his trauma as oppose to Cap who is a selfish and illogical the entire film who refuses to relinquish control or trust anyone who disagrees with him, whilst constantly compartmentalizing his own issues and information to the determent of everyone. A lot of people seem to get fooled by the exterior of both characters in this film and not dig deeper. Team Iron man is the only realistic path long term (and we see how Tony will simply ignore the regulations as best he can when he needs to), Team Cap is based on emotion and favoritism.
Was disappointed as I don't think this movie satisfactorily explored its central conflict: the philosophical divide between Tony and Cap. Also after two movies we know next to nothing about Bucky as a character. I would have preferred spending some time with him in hiding and got to know him a little more. As it stands he is little more than a plot device
Can someone remind me what was happening in thei beginning of this movie? The henchman from TWS who turned into Army of Two.. Was he working for Hydra? How did he get like that?
Uh, can someone explain what that means?
UD says Ls are... blunts? So Marvel is... done building Iron Man up, and is tearing him down now?
I heard some talk that RDJ is interested in down an Iron Man 4. Maybe RDJ is now sick of co-staring in Avengers/other movies and constantly being punked. We need another solo iron man film to let him shine again. I do agree he has reached his lowest point, time to build him back up.
That's Crossbones. He's a mercenary, doing mercenary things. He got like that from, and I quote, "this is for dropping a building on me, you son of a bitch."
L's are losses. So, the opposite of what you said.
Inferno313
Banned
Shane Black said as recently as last week that RDJ was currently courting Mel Gibson to direct an Iron Man 4.
I was watching a making of for Sam Raimi's Spider-Man films, and they said that it cost Sony thousands of dollars to create the Spidey suit. So having Stark create the suit is more plausible for me than a working class kid from Queens.
Wheeljack539
Member
I don't think we watched the same movie. If Cap was so distrustful why did he even bother lowereing his guard when Tony came by later in Siberia, basically breaking the law he signed basically saying Cap was right about this entire situation? Tony's running on high emotion - the stress from the Accords and stress from Pepper all bearing down on him and Ross is basically telling him he better deliver.
I also do not see how Cap is illogical by going after the bigger fish when Bucky reveals the informaiton Zemo wanted. Combined with Zemo's desire "To see an empire fall" and that the 5 other Winter Soldiers, before the serum were HYDRA's greatest kill squad who spoke multiple languages and who could blend in anywhere. That's a massive red flag and it ends up being a race to get to Siberia first - until they got intercepted by Tony. The others Steve gathered weren't to fight Tony or the Accords but to go after Zemo and a bigger problem that no one else would have believed until it was too late.
I also don't know where you get relenquish control. Are you referring to leadership of the Avengers or just his opposition to the Accords in general - opposition due to seeing first hand how a nuke was fired on New York and how SHIELD fell in the past with now the possibility of people's lives being put in the balance due to 117 Nations having to decide whether they should go or not. Or to be sent to places where they shouldn't be at because the real issue is elsewhere. I can't blame him for that at all. "The safest hands are still our own" is something I agree with as the team is by that point. The guys they were fighting had pretty much been entirely external and mostly HYDRA. The only massive thing ''they" caused was Sokovia and much if not all of that was Tony due to not listening to Thor.
And worse, now we see that its not only sign or retire, but its if you don't incarceration on the Raft. By Ross, no less.
Tony wants to do what is best and I do not blame him but the Accords as they were presented come off as rushed means of regaining some form of control with no guarantee that any measures that Cap would have wanted to put forward had he even signed would be looked at. Everett Ross's brushing off of "lawyers" with a laugh is very concerning along with Sec Ross's line of wanting to throw Tony in a cell due to his failure at the airport is telling. Had Ross done that would you have agreed then?
what the fuckity fuck
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
This thread is like 65% Cap, 35% Tony.
Considering where Stark is at right now as a character, I'm super interested in an Iron Man 4. I could totally buy into Stark delving into a Demon in a Bottle arc.
MaybeBurger
Banned
just watched it - is the end credit scene only freezing bucky and not anything to do with Thanos? 
Vision should be way more powerful no? Big fight scene was way better than the trailers let on.
Very entertaining. Really didnt buy the heroes can't defend themslves thing to the UN for the actions they took. Try not to think about it too much.
Vision should be way more powerful no? Big fight scene was way better than the trailers let on.
Very entertaining. Really didnt buy the heroes can't defend themslves thing to the UN for the actions they took. Try not to think about it too much.
Black Panther teaser. GotG2 will probably set up the pieces for Infinity War 1.just watched it - is the end credit scene only freezing bucky and not anything to do with Thanos?
Yeah he's the only character that is noticeably sparsely used. He shows up late, draws the line in the dirt, he's part of the "CHARGE!" move, and then IIRC he is not focused upon again until Giant Man happens.
Ordinaryundone
Member
You mean Black "I support the accords until the minute I feel I deserve personal vigilante justice" Panther? If Bucky hadn't been with Cap BP would have been anti-accord just so he could go get him.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but did anyone else catch the Mary Jane easter egg in this movie?
In the scene where Bucky gets spotted in Germany, there's a news stand guy who freaks out and runs away. The magazine on the upper left corner of his stand is titled "OSBORNE" and the model on the cover of the magazine is a pretty redhead.
This is GAF, so I can't be the only one who noticed this. It's just the first time I've found an easter egg like that on my own. I was excited.
In the scene where Bucky gets spotted in Germany, there's a news stand guy who freaks out and runs away. The magazine on the upper left corner of his stand is titled "OSBORNE" and the model on the cover of the magazine is a pretty redhead.
This is GAF, so I can't be the only one who noticed this. It's just the first time I've found an easter egg like that on my own. I was excited.
Manmademan
Member
Panther was explicitly of the opinion that diplomacy did not work and was a waste of time even before his father was killed.
The movie was pretty clear they were on opposite sides of that debate.
Panther isn't really ever in favor of the accords at all that I can remember. He just wants to kill the man who blew up the UN, and as a sovereign leader of a country he's not able to be held accountable in the same way everyone else is.
anonymous_abc
Member
Nevertheless he somehow manages to hang around Tony and the gang instead of being sent to Azkaban.
I'll have to keep an eye out for that next time I see it, thanks.
He's the king of Wakanda. He doesn't give a fuck. He's harboring a known international terrorist and assassin in his country and when it's pointed out to him that the rest of the world will try to come for Bucky, his response is "Let them try."
I feel like Whedon's charm and levity actually brought AoU down a lot. I can see why people enjoy it, but I just found it too much at times and made characters feel a little too similar if that makes any sense.
Ordinaryundone
Member
Kind of hypocritical when it was the King of Wakanda demanding the Avengers submit to oversight in the first place. T'Challa even says himself at the UN that he agrees and supports the Accords, he just thinks these things are easier to do without all the pageantry and diplomacy that the UN demands.
Of course, I don't blame him for flip flopping. By the end of the movie the only people still supporting the accords are War Machine and The Vision. Even Tony gets it by the end. Still didn't stop T'Challa from acting like Tony's hired goon though. What did he promise him, that her let him personally kill Bucky or something?
User 73706
Banned
How is he flip-flopping when you literally just made his case for him in the same breath? He supports oversight and taking appropriate action, but at the same time knows that same oversight an action could be just as easily be taken into his own hands - so that's what he does.
Ordinaryundone
Member
"I support oversight and deliberation only when it doesn't apply to me or my interests" is hypocritical at best.
User 73706
Banned
The Accords specifically revolve around the Avengers within the context of the film, not all supers. BP isn't an Avenger.
EDIT: Also: part of Black Panther's whole mantra is prep-time and general knowhow as a means of orchestrating his devices. He's going after Bucky because most nations just want him dead at that point. I mean yeah, he's using the desires of the UN to fuel his own ambitions which could be considered selfish, but it's in no way hypocritical.
Ordinaryundone
Member
Hawkeye and Ant Man aren't Avengers either, didn't stop them from getting thrown in super prison. Its clear the law was meant to curtail ANY actions by Super heroes, not just the current avengers. Otherwise they'd just disband and proceed to keep on doing their thing.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Good read. The third act of Avengers is like the best and worst thing to happen to MCU. Outside Guardians and Iron Man 3, they're worked so hard to reverse engineer that scene to make all their "fun" likable characters, to the point they can never do anything of consequence, nothing that can possibly make you dislike or feel bad about these characters.
They have great actors, who do their jobs, and say their funny lines, and have a couple of visually thrilling action sequences, but they'll never make anything as good as Spider-Man 2 or the Incredibles or The Dark Knight because they refuse to commit to making great stories, because they might risk the general likability of their characters.
As it is, I remember having fun with Civil War, but its amazing how quickly so much of it has evaporated out of my head.
Interesting write up. I agree for the most part with his criticism of the MCU post phase 1, that Marvel has supplanted character development in favor of character moments, but I don't believe it's as bad as he's making it out to be. Winter Soldier in particular is very much story driven in the ways he pining for, just not for Bucky as he deftly points out. Bucky is still just an object in Steve's story but one that does a lot for Steve's character development. He also opts to ignore Guardians completely.
The biggest complaint of his that I can get behind though is how these movies seem to becoming increasingly ensemble oriented at the expense of tension surrounding its characters. He picks apart Tony's development in AoU for example, which is a legitimate problem with that movie, but he ignores what goes on with Clint, Steve, Widow, and Bruce who all, imo, have great arcs. The unfortunate reality though is that Ultron, Vision, Tony, Thor, and the twins all feel half baked in that regard. So when Steve utters "I'm home" at the end of AoU, thus completing the journey he went on in the film, it's undercut by the feeling of emptiness associated with Thor and Tony's stories. Similarly, the inclusion of Spider-man in Civil War comes at the expense of Tony's development. That time could have been spent better establishing his character's frustration and anger over the situation but instead went towards developing Peter. That's great for setting up his character for Homecoming but actively detracts from the primary conflicts in Civil War. I still believe that conflict works but not as well as the dilemma in Winter Soldier and probably not as well as the Marcus, Mcfeely, and the Russos wanted. Comparing those movies highlights for me the very edge of where Marvel can take the ensemble approach and have the movie stretched at the seams without bursting. It also makes me really glad that we're going to have more solo movies from here on out until we get to Thor Ragnarok.
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