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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos
- Thread starter Son Of D
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After causing an explosion as a distraction, breaking into someone's property, participating in a battle that destroyed a lot of property (and got someone crippled) and breaking the law. What did he expect?
BronsonLee
Member
To not go into super Guantanamo and have Tony try to play like he had the moral high ground
It was a joke on the fact that Tony is basically in the movie as a "mentor".
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Well, more like a super-prison.
But Cap did warn him about that. You don't go doing that then be pissed at the outcome you knew what was going to happen.
Tony knew he wasn't though. In fact Tony was about to say something but then Clint just mouthed him off.
Except Hawkeye was part of a team of superpowered criminals and Tony had the moral high ground at that point (until he went "You killed my mama!!!").
BronsonLee
Member
Oh god we're going to need to pick sides here
but ya Clint mouthed off because he's tired of Tony at that point
but ya Clint mouthed off because he's tired of Tony at that point
Super-powered criminals? I don't think we watched the same movie!
Iron Man's position was backed by the UN, an establishment that Steve has reason to believe (based upon Avengers, and Winter Soldier) might not always have the best agenda. The great thing about this movie is that neither side was 100% "right".
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
He's the only character I feel is off, everyone is fine.
But they only talked once in the film. I mean, I guess he's probably holding a grudge on him or something, but in this movie alone it feels a bit weird.
But they only talked once in the film. I mean, I guess he's probably holding a grudge on him or something, but in this movie alone it feels a bit weird.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Spidey's Empire Strikes Back reference was perfect. The whole Giant Man scene was ridiculously good fun.
Airport seen was boss, can't wait for next Friday to take my son to see this. He's going to love it.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Hank spends a lifetime preventing the suit from falling to the wrong hands and Scott just goes and undoes that.
A part of me doubts that all of the "Secret Avengers" holed up in Wakanda
If that's the case that's going to make Ant-Man and The Wasp a somewhat awkward movie to pull off. Hawkeye probably just went home because his house is already in a location no one but Fury and the rest of the Avengers knows of.
How though
All of the heroes are at least locked up in something resembling a traditional holding cell
Bucky and Zemo were locked up onto what I pretty much assume is the same thing they have to shit on
If that's the case that's going to make Ant-Man and The Wasp a somewhat awkward movie to pull off. Hawkeye probably just went home because his house is already in a location no one but Fury and the rest of the Avengers knows of.
How though
All of the heroes are at least locked up in something resembling a traditional holding cell
Bucky and Zemo were locked up onto what I pretty much assume is the same thing they have to shit on
In the MCU, who would you trust to make the call as to when to get involved? In the real world, I'd agree with you obviously.
Cap doesn't cause what happens in Avengers 1, he helps solve, he finds out that SHIELD was taken over by Hydra and stops them from killing possibly millions and in Age of Ultron he helps clean up Tony's mess. At what point should Cap say, you're right, I can't trust my own actions so someone else better govern me?
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I loved Hawkeye. Especially his "I'm a futurist!!!" rant. They got EVERY CHARACTER RIGHT. I don't even know how that's possible or feasible.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Maybe Cap retrieved them when he freed them.
So they're gonna be chillin' in Wakanda in the mean time then?
So they're gonna be chillin' in Wakanda in the mean time then?
Well, the U.N. idea is dumb because the U.N. can't agree on what color the sky is. What they should do is elect for themselves a council who can decide things like when to intervene while giving them some measure of limited autonomy and have this council be accountable to the leadership of a coalition of like-minded countries.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Speaking of Ross, he's the guy in the Hulk movie right? Did they change his actor too?
Cap doesn't really cause it but the events of Avengers pretty much draws back entirely to Thor. SHIELD began weapons development as a response to the knowledge that they're outgunned against the world and Loki invades Earth primarily because he has a grudge against Thor.
In regards to The Winter Soldier I... guess you could argue that to some extent Cap is responsible? But it's less because of an inherent or indirect phenomenon and more because of decision management. From the way I interpreted how Ross tried to spin it, the ensuing disaster came about as a result of Cap being convinced that SHIELD had to be completely obliterated. Nick wanted to just get the Helicarriers out of the way but Cap decided everything had to go, hence his insistence of "the price of freedom is high". Ultimately that's a large point they're trying to hammer home, that it's not so much whether the Avengers are heroes/vigilantes, but that they're dangerous when given autonomy, and there's plenty of evidence to show Cap is a risk when it comes to being a sole authority as well. This movie is pretty much an embodiment of that fact.
Like Vision said; causality etc.
BronsonLee
Member
Yup, nope, same dude.
"I don't think we've met before, I'm Clint"
"I don't care"
*Panther proceeds to whoop Clint's ass*
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Weird, I think he was slightly larger in the Hulk film, maybe he lost weight.
I guess that's why Clint's pissed off lol
Panther went over everybody. Bucky got buried by him like 3 times.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Man that villain. Kinda like, he didn't bring down the movie at all, far from it, but he wasn't great. Well acted mind, but not great.
Well except Black widow..
Well he eventually did go over her off-screen
I keep going back to this, but IF accountability was a thing in the MCU, Tony Stark should be jailed for Ultron. Then sure, hold all the avengers accountable for their actions regardless of what good they do.
They touch on this in the movie, that by simply being, they have an impact on the world. I think that is an interesting thread to pull on and may lead up to Infinity War (like the tesseract led to chitauri).
However I'm still not sure how (in the MCU) capitulating to government oversight solves that.
If you watched AoU, he showed plenty color and temper lol.
Though I don't remember him being snarky, usually just professional.
Like against Vision, he knew he would lose. He was just buying time.
Blowing up stuff, helping a suspect escape, beating up cops and destroying property is generally against the law. That has nothing to do with the UN. In addition he operates in countries that (for all we know) may have ratified the treaty.
I get that it is fundamental to the appeal of superheroes. I don't mind. I suspend my disbelief because it's fun. That doesn't mean that they are in any way right.
I think I like him so much because he fit in perfectly with the theme and concepts of the movie. He really was just some random guy getting revenge on the Avengers because they destroyed his life and never really took accountability. It fits so well that he isn't the focus and is just the spark to start Iron Man and Cap fighting.
The suspect in question, was a "shoot to kill" target based upon a traffic-cam video that showed his likeness near the scene. Apparently "guilty till proven innocent (or dead)" is the thing in the MCU?
Cap don't stand for that!
I went to a screening last night that showed the first two Captain America movies before it. Going from the highway destruction of Winter Soldier where tens of civilians must have died to "a handful of people got blown up in this building THIS IS TOO FAR" was a little weird, loved it overall though.
My only real issue was during the Cap/Bucky/Panther chase scene, there were so many really terribly shot landings. So many jarring cuts where cap was falling straight as an arrow then the scene cut and he was landing at and angle and rolling. Or when Bucky is parkouring down the side of the building and kinda just float down onto a ledge (which i apparently wasn't the only one to notice, a lot of people laughed at it.) They are minor complaints though and the rest of the movie is so solid it really doesn't matter.
The fact that they joked about it was the best.
My only real issue was during the Cap/Bucky/Panther chase scene, there were so many really terribly shot landings. So many jarring cuts where cap was falling straight as an arrow then the scene cut and he was landing at and angle and rolling. Or when Bucky is parkouring down the side of the building and kinda just float down onto a ledge (which i apparently wasn't the only one to notice, a lot of people laughed at it.) They are minor complaints though and the rest of the movie is so solid it really doesn't matter.
The fact that they joked about it was the best.
On that basis, the Avengers members would have been arrested by their respective 1st movie appearance.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I felt that "He's my friend" - "so was I" exchange was corny when I watched the trailer but in context it actually felt heartbreaking.
And if they actually did get arrested by their respective 1st movie appearance, they did not exactly have any ground to protest, either.
Also they used a different take right?
He was my favorite bit tho, his motivations and actions were so human and relatable. I don't think what he did was right, but I could understand how it became his only path forward after such a devastating emotional trauma caused by people who appear to be almost gods compared to him.
His comments about stronger people having failed to fight the avengers was so great, and he made it clear early on that he didn't want a bodycount but he would do that if it was his only option.... #TeamZemo
Edit - plus he's a great example of what vision is talking about with causality.
Yep. Bucky throwing a dude off a railing with Cap having to catch him, with a "Really dude?" from Cap made me laugh.
Trailer version seemed more sad. Movie version seemed angry.
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