You can manipulate the camera on certain levels and it will use the camera movement within the puzzle itself since the game revolves around "impossible shapes". I dunno how to best describe it but if you like this toad game you should definitely check out Monument Valley.
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Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker Review Thread
- Thread starter OrbitalBeard
- Start date
You can manipulate the camera on certain levels and it will use the camera movement within the puzzle itself since the game revolves around "impossible shapes". I dunno how to best describe it but if you like this toad game you should definitely check out Monument Valley.
pinkurocket
Member
I know! I really wasn't saying indie doesn't have quality games! I just mean, like you said, it's often not easy to keep up with indie game releases. When an indie game is priced cheaply, it will sell easier, get featured (on Steam or whatever platform) and more people will notice the game and maybe purchase it themselves. I didn't mean to say that indie games are cheaper due to being lesser quality, not at all!
I have bought a bunch of indie games, but most have come from bundles or Steam sales. And when a new game comes out, unless I have been really anticipating it, I will often wait for a sale. For a Nintendo game, I know that waiting won't really matter much in because the sales are way less common. The only way to get a cheaper game is a second-hand purchase of a boxed copy. So, you see, that is the difference in 'value' I was talking about. ^^
I think I get what Pink is saying. He/She isn't talking about personal opinions, rather people's perceptions and the influences that can have on marketing. Toad is such an established character from an extremely established franchise that average consumers will give the benefit of doubt when they purchase the title. That same benefit won't be given to indie developers. As such, their bargaining power is gimped and they need to compensate, resulting in more affordable prices to bring consumers on board. It isn't fair, but it makes sense.
I'd like you find me a free to play game on the production value scope of a AAA published title.
I am not talking about ambition or mechanical complexity, I am speaking of literal development costs to end-result production value: high model quality, full 3D rendered, high quality texture maps, lighting, physics, scope and length, the whole shebang.
I have the game on my phone, I know what it is (M C Escher is what you're looking for in terms of describing it). I don't remember any (but apparently I remember wrong) 3-axis stage rotation. Moving the camera around a central axis is something entirely different from a three dimensional shape that can be rotated as well as a free rotating camera.
Planetside 2
Sustained by microtransactions and developed by Sony. No, Sony Online Entertainment is not an indie developer.
Isn't that game published by Sony Online Entertainment?
All you said was f2p on scale of $60 game.
The whole discussion is between indie and big shot studios (as in indie titles for whatever cost free to 20+$, vs. big studio releases of whatever cost). Though I apologize for the lack of clarity.
Yep, its pretty fun too.
test_account
XP-39C²
Could you please show me where someone complained about the price for Captain Toad, but didnt complain anything at all regard some other games that were broken?
That is true, but they have to go by what you get at launch (and therefor going by the launch price). Otherwise we can also say that reviews shouldnt be done before for example 2-3 month after the game release because sometimes patches and content are added to the game later on, which improves the game. I mean, reading a two year old review might not always be representative if a game has gotten patches that fixes the initial complaints.
I also think price should be factored in reviews. It might not be that important for games though, because those are relatively cheap anyway, at least in my opinion. But for TVs and such things, i think price can be a very important factor.
Are you saying that other reviews have never taken value proposition into account, besides for Captain Toad?
But that doesn't make it an indie title then. It's literally the opposite.
Btw, I should try it out when I get my PS4 soon.
Oh yeah definitely not an indie title. I think the first one was and SOE purchased them? Dunno.
Coolio McAwesome
Member
Given the amount of overhyped AAA games selling for $60+, it seems a little ridiculous to complain about this game costing $40.
That would be like someone gladly paying full price to see a Michael Bay movie, but insisting that tickets to Wes Anderson movies shouldn't be full price because they don't cost as much to make. It would be like arguing that the new Hey Rosetta! album shouldn't be full price because it didn't cost as much to produce as Taylor Swift's album.
The bottom line is that Captain Toad looks incredible and the game is almost certainly better than many of the overhyped AAA games that sell for $60+.
That would be like someone gladly paying full price to see a Michael Bay movie, but insisting that tickets to Wes Anderson movies shouldn't be full price because they don't cost as much to make. It would be like arguing that the new Hey Rosetta! album shouldn't be full price because it didn't cost as much to produce as Taylor Swift's album.
The bottom line is that Captain Toad looks incredible and the game is almost certainly better than many of the overhyped AAA games that sell for $60+.
Hades Hotgun
Banned
My own preferences and the general information I received from reviews and friends who played the game. I really like the 3D Mario games and I don't care much for the "New" games. There seemed to be consensus that 3D Land was less of the former and more of the latter in design, so it became a game that I felt was still probably worth playing but not worth $20 or more. Also the amount of content is supposedly a good deal less than that of a traditional 3D Mario title like Galaxy. I could definitely see it being worth $20 or more for someone else, but it wasn't for me.
If it turns out to be better than I am expecting then that will be great, its always nice to be pleasantly surprised, but the point I was making in my original post was regarding relative value and how $40 isn't what I would consider a budget price.
Refreshment.01
Member
The thing is you keep conditioning and flexing the criteria every time an example is brought up that diminishes your points.
Also by your admitance that the hole point is: The whole discussion is between indie and big shot studios just proofs that you are missing the point Vena.
The crux of the matter is that in the present market climate with so many forces competing for the consumers money and maybe more importantly time (Mobile, Free to play, indie, AAA, Social Networks) Nintendo still exhibits far too conservative market approach and pricing. Is almost like if the Genesis vs SNES market froze for them in time.
We are in agreement here. i do understand, respect and think that there are logical reasons for Nintendo to keep their brand perceived as premium content.
Leaving outside the course of indie vs Nintendo the thread has derailed into. And with the above in mind i still don't think Captain Toad is a 40 value game. We have had a pretty decent taste of what the game is about since 3D World and also the benefit of in depth impressions of levels since the E3 unveiling that did a pretty good job comunicating how the game was expanded from it's origins. So people expressing concerns about the price are not necessarily doing so in a blindly uninformed way.
You don't have to tell me, I've played more indie games this year than retail ones. I was just answering about Pushmo and you'll see a few posts higher I posted about games like First Light being fantastic value for $15 which is made by a major company. There's examples of both all across the board but development costs ARE higher for major studios. There is more overhead, quality control, and advertising. Those are just things inherent with being a bigger company that go into the price of $40 as well. Indie developers don't have to pay their employees (themselves) top tier health insurance, give to their 401k, and provide other benefits. Major publishers will really struggle to make profits with their main developers if prices were $20.
$40 is fine for me; could it be priced lower? Sure. But I'm not going to pass it up.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Or some people think $40 is expensive for a video game in general.
Looking back at the year, here's a list of the games I spent $40 or more on.
FFX+X-2 HD ($40)
Dark Souls 2 ($60)
Persona Q ($50)
Bravely Default ($40)
DKC:TF ($50)
Mario Kart 8 ($60 but I got Pikmin with it)
So that's 5 huge RPGs plus the new DKC. Mario Kart 8 was technically $60 but essentially it was $30 (and I got Pikmin for $30 as well). Basically, if a game isn't in a series I love and/or is a huge RPG, I wait for sales rather than buy it new.
CT:TT looks like a fun game and I'm very tempted, but $40 can go a long way with indie games & Steam/PSN sales. Unfortunately, since this is a Nintendo release, waiting for sales could very well be futile (still waiting on a cheap copy of SF64 3DS and that's 3 years old at this point).
It is quite funny that people only care to value the price of a game when it is lower than the standard. If a developer actually bothers to price their game lower than the competition, then it's probably a more reasonable value than a game that is $60 just because that's the "normal" price.
In any case, I have nothing against people discussing games as a value proposition, but it's undeniable hilarious that this only happens with lower priced stuff, when it should be the opposite.
In any case, I have nothing against people discussing games as a value proposition, but it's undeniable hilarious that this only happens with lower priced stuff, when it should be the opposite.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
That's pretty spot on really.
I very rarely pay the full AAA price for AAA games.
That said CT:TT does look very fun despite the price. Might get it when I actually get a Wii U.
Refreshment.01
Member
This is a good post lt.
im aware of the different economic realities of the various development scenes, i took for granted that this was easy to infer from my previous posts.
But in the case of Treasure Trackers there's some merit to the price considerations. Not because the amount of game content or lenght it offers, i don't think that's the angle the conversation should take. But because of what type of game it is, it's development realities and the change in perceived value in a market swamped by competition.
Another good paralel to be drawn to this game is Nintendo's very own NES Remix. Another game with heavy assets and concept recycling. i think there was some criticism from the community in relation to the price and comparisons were drawn to what is offered elsewhere for the same 15 price tag.
Very true, while a game like this certainly requires more development effort (used assets or not), than a game like Pushmo, it's still a puzzle game with an already solid foundation that is relatively cheap to develop. Maybe there is no excuse other than they think people will pay $40 to play it, like me. I do think there is a middle ground though and a lot of major companies will flounder if they are forced to drop prices too low. First Light was basically a slam dunk, but imagine developing a whole new engine with a large team at a real company and then trying to make a profit at $20. It's going to be very very high risk and these companies are very risk averse. Anyway, good conversation!!
I'm not flexing the criteria. Sony Online Entertainment is not a small developer, and the discussion is about the production values between indies vs. big studios.
So what point am I missing? That Nintendo chose to price a budget title at a budget price that you don't agree on the budget price? You don't agree with it, fine, but that doesn't mean that its actually feasible for them to charge less or, even if they could, how much less it could be. Obviously, as I said, you're being charged a premium for known name and polish to meet expectations. But I will continue to repeat that I think its foolish for a title like this to be priced anywhere near an indie, the costs are entirely different and, I'd argue, a lot more expensive to develop in terms of both man-hours and opportunity cost for a talented studio like EAD.
To Far Away Times
Member
The "All killer, no filler" mantra goes a long ways in many of the best games ever made...
Many (most?) of my favorite games are short.
Mirror's Edge
Portal 1
And a metric shit-ton of classic 2D platformers and arcade games.
Many (most?) of my favorite games are short.
Mirror's Edge
Portal 1
And a metric shit-ton of classic 2D platformers and arcade games.
marimorimo
Member
Since this turned into a Nintendo and Treasure Tracker value proposition thread might as well throw in my 2 cents:
As a consumer it upsets me how Nintendo games keep their value so long after release. Every other 3rd party studio drops prices on their games big time a year or even less after release. There have been a few older releases that I haven't played due to not having a Wii last gen because I couldn't justify paying full price for them.
But I understand what Nintendo is trying to do here. They're trying to keep value in their games. The amazing thing is that people do recognize that value, which is why titles like Mario Kart and Animal Crossing appear on the charts even years after release.
In this sense Nintendo games are the most cost-effective to buy at release as their games' values do not fall quickly.
I bought Treasure Tracker Day One and I do not regret it at all. The gameplay, presentation, and overall package are worth the 3,700 yen I paid for it.
As a consumer it upsets me how Nintendo games keep their value so long after release. Every other 3rd party studio drops prices on their games big time a year or even less after release. There have been a few older releases that I haven't played due to not having a Wii last gen because I couldn't justify paying full price for them.
But I understand what Nintendo is trying to do here. They're trying to keep value in their games. The amazing thing is that people do recognize that value, which is why titles like Mario Kart and Animal Crossing appear on the charts even years after release.
In this sense Nintendo games are the most cost-effective to buy at release as their games' values do not fall quickly.
I bought Treasure Tracker Day One and I do not regret it at all. The gameplay, presentation, and overall package are worth the 3,700 yen I paid for it.
Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker has something that always cause the deepest and most serious discussions about all kinds of topics like economy, femenism, and social injustice here on GAF. That's something I respect but omg I just want to know how's the soundtrack in this game! D:
Biggu Bosu
Banned
Wind Waker has been $50 full price since launch, besides the random one week sale
I hope this drops in price, I just can't see myself paying full price for this
Hades Hotgun
Banned
I am of a similar mind set, however all the game series (mostly JRPGs) that I would have spent $60 on are dead so its pretty much waiting for a better price on everything. $40 is too much for my budget and I am perfectly content to wait on price drops that fall in my preferred price range.
Capt Toad looks like a blast and I am excited to play it, but it won't lose any of its charm just because I had to wait to play it.
yes. not all nintendo games are evergreen titles
but many are.
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the reason why nintendo games are rarely drops in price are because the game lasts for longer time
u will get FIFA 2016 next year, and less people would play FIFA 2015. therefore FIFA 2015 gotta have a price drop.
the same goes for the likes of CoD or AC. simply because people will buy the new one next year
captain toad are almost guaranteed won't have a sequel next year. the fan would stick with this one for a very long time. therefore the price won't drop in a hurry
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nintendo itself are rarely dropping their prices. u could see this on the eshop
when u see discounts for nintendo games, it's usually from the retailers. because they already bought the games from nintendo -probably without any buyback policies, and they rather sell it for loss to clear up some space in their inventory, so they could sell something else
Why would you do that?
Member
I actually like how they keep their value so long after release. The fact that I can buy, for example, a Zelda game on release day and then sell it later for a very similar price is pretty cool.
I don't sell my games, though... But it's nice that I can do so if I'm ever in a real financial pinch. Plus, it gives me a bit of confidence that I can buy a game and I wouldn't be throwing $60 away forever. Though I should note that that's not true for every Nintendo game.
megabytecr
Member
I had to check if I was on the right thread.
Good reviews, good length, very charming!! Full Nintendo magic, I was sold on the game the first time I saw it, then read it was $40, I think it is a fair price. Games have been devaluating so I understand some people might think it is still expensive, I have paid full price for most Nintendo stuff and everything seemed well worth it, DKCTF, SM3DW, MK8, Pikmin 3 and Zelda WW HD are the highlights for me, W101 is down in price and that is well worth it too. I still need to get Bayo 2, Captain Toad and SSBU but I am drowning in games atm.
Good reviews, good length, very charming!! Full Nintendo magic, I was sold on the game the first time I saw it, then read it was $40, I think it is a fair price. Games have been devaluating so I understand some people might think it is still expensive, I have paid full price for most Nintendo stuff and everything seemed well worth it, DKCTF, SM3DW, MK8, Pikmin 3 and Zelda WW HD are the highlights for me, W101 is down in price and that is well worth it too. I still need to get Bayo 2, Captain Toad and SSBU but I am drowning in games atm.
Great review. I am intrigued by the idea of a game that dares to do something outside of the normal genre definitions and Captain Toad is definitely one of them. I like the fact that there is an action element tied in with the puzzle aspect, with various enemies and their own behavior playing a large part of how you will navigate the puzzles. The review didn't seem to show any boss battles, which I'm glad, because I still don't know how any of those play (besides the big dragon one from last E3).
Saw the Quick look from giant bomb http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/quick-look-captain-toad-treasure-tracker/2300-9755/
I can wait to get it.
I can wait to get it.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
that bad huh?
Well, he actually liked the game, just not the asking price. GB has given 3 stars to games they like before, like Danganronpa 2 or Spec Ops.
Imo, Monument Valley isn't much of a puzzle game, though. The puzzles are way too easy and the solutions are obvious (you can't do much else at each stage). Is more of a zen experience game like Flower. And FEZ was first
.CouchMaster
Member
Quite a few spoilers in there in terms of level design and variety, I would've loved to discover them in game. Regardless buying it day one, can't wait. My Deluxe promotion points are ready.
Razzorn34
Member
Thanks for the warning. I'll just wait until Friday and see for myself.
OrbitalBeard
Member
A general rule of thumb regarding GT reviews is to avoid them at all costs if you're spoiler-sensitive. I don't think I've watched a GT review for a game I was excited for in over five years.
Thankfully, you now have the option of reading the text of the review on their site, so you can get their thoughts on the game without viewing the video.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Trine 2: Director's Cut is a good comparison since it about matches the value proposition, IMO. There's another aspect of Trine's low price, though - the fact Frozenbyte could port the game to everything that was technically capable of running it. Under such conditions you can spread your margins thinner over a larger install base. Also there's the thing that you cannot have the game at $30 on the WiiU if it's $15-$20 everywhere else - people would feel legitimately ripped off and just refuse to buy it.
None of those things hold true for CT:TT, which is an exclusive game. And I can guarantee you that if Trine2 had been an exclusive, regardless of the platform, game wouldn't have cost $20. Not initially, at least.
ShabbadooJr
Member
I've been super hyped for this game since the announcement at E3. I'll gladly pay the $40 (really $32 with Gamers Club). I have no problem with the cost since you know it'll actually work at launch unlike some $60 games I've purchased lately. It's unique and I look forward to games that aren't just shooters.