Better late than never!
I reviewed Treasure Tracker for GameSided. I gave it a 7.5/10.
I reviewed Treasure Tracker for GameSided. I gave it a 7.5/10.
GameSided said:
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker Review Thread
- Thread starter OrbitalBeard
- Start date
That hyperbole. It looked like a packed where the graphics need improvement. Would they apparently are doing.
Refreshment.01
Member
But i knew the 40 price tag will spawn some criticism.
Before jumping to conclusions at least read further. i don't want or expected the game to offer much content than what it seems to offer, think the game is extended enough... to just the right amount to not overstay it's welcome as far as a puzzler goes.
But its an issue about accesibility and heavy market competition. In the cuarrent market climate it becomes hard to justify a 40 price tag for this game.
This paints a picture for a bigger issue Nintendo is facing, this is, how to price these type of games in a market that changed? Now, we have indi developers putting high quality stuff with its higher pricing tier been 15 to 20. This was something that Nintendo didn't have to face some years ago but it hasn't quite dawned to them or at least they don't want to take any measures.
Personally and eShop incentive would have tipped the scale. For example, if owning 3D World gave a 10% discount, with something of the sort, and the extra10% eShop program the pill would have been a lot easier to swallow.
Before jumping to conclusions at least read further. i don't want or expected the game to offer much content than what it seems to offer, think the game is extended enough... to just the right amount to not overstay it's welcome as far as a puzzler goes.
But its an issue about accesibility and heavy market competition. In the cuarrent market climate it becomes hard to justify a 40 price tag for this game.
This paints a picture for a bigger issue Nintendo is facing, this is, how to price these type of games in a market that changed? Now, we have indi developers putting high quality stuff with its higher pricing tier been 15 to 20. This was something that Nintendo didn't have to face some years ago but it hasn't quite dawned to them or at least they don't want to take any measures.
Personally and eShop incentive would have tipped the scale. For example, if owning 3D World gave a 10% discount, with something of the sort, and the extra10% eShop program the pill would have been a lot easier to swallow.
evilromero
Member
I also had a feeling this would be the case. I've been playing Nintendo games too long and generally have a good idea what to expect. Still, I can't help but want to experience this game.
Hades Hotgun
Banned
I really appreciate that some reviews have taken price in to account. Also, I'm happy that Cpt Toad appears to be every bit as charming and fun as it looks.
The notion that $40 is a "budget" price is ridiculous. I just picked up Mario 3D Land and Curtain Call for $15 and $20 respectively. And those were the prices that I felt the games deserved to be bought at.
Personally, I use price as my exclusive metric for rating a game.
When someone asks me if a game is good, I tend to tell them that I think it is worth X amount of dollars, with variation based on what I know of their preferences. I think the quality and quantity of a game must both be taken into consideration when judging it.
In the case of Capt Toad, I am very excited for the game, but based on reviews I would probably want to price it as a $20 game. At $40 I may regret the purchase even if I really enjoy the game, because there is a direct value proposition to consider.
In a similar vein, I was not disappointed by the original Assassin's Creed because I bought it for $10 while many of my friends who bought it on day one were very unhappy with the game.
Journey and Flower were fantastic games that I would have been very unhappy with purchasing had they been $60 or even $40. There are very few games that warrant so high a price tag. The sheer amount of content and quality in Smash Bros makes paying $60 a much more reasonable transaction than Capt Toad, even though I will probably be happier playing the latter despite the briefer playtime and lesser replayability.
The notion that $40 is a "budget" price is ridiculous. I just picked up Mario 3D Land and Curtain Call for $15 and $20 respectively. And those were the prices that I felt the games deserved to be bought at.
Personally, I use price as my exclusive metric for rating a game.
When someone asks me if a game is good, I tend to tell them that I think it is worth X amount of dollars, with variation based on what I know of their preferences. I think the quality and quantity of a game must both be taken into consideration when judging it.
In the case of Capt Toad, I am very excited for the game, but based on reviews I would probably want to price it as a $20 game. At $40 I may regret the purchase even if I really enjoy the game, because there is a direct value proposition to consider.
In a similar vein, I was not disappointed by the original Assassin's Creed because I bought it for $10 while many of my friends who bought it on day one were very unhappy with the game.
Journey and Flower were fantastic games that I would have been very unhappy with purchasing had they been $60 or even $40. There are very few games that warrant so high a price tag. The sheer amount of content and quality in Smash Bros makes paying $60 a much more reasonable transaction than Capt Toad, even though I will probably be happier playing the latter despite the briefer playtime and lesser replayability.
evilromero
Member
I didn´t mean that in a bad way, but thats exactly what happened. Miyamoto stated that once 3d World was completed late last year he approached the studio to use the gameplay in place for the Toad sections of that game to make this side project. Even though most of the gameplay was in place Tokyo literally produced this in a year, apparently with a very small team while the rest of the studio moved on to their next challege. It speaks volumes of the talent in the studio and the level of efficiency when a game this polished was greenlit, designed and finalized within that timeframe (even if they where reusing assets) with a small number of people.
The fuss over the price is funny when you take into account people paying above premium for broken games with zero complaints.
Yeah, no one ever complains Unity, Driveclub, Destiny, etc. In fact, I bet if you searched really hard, you couldn't find a single thread mentioning any of those games in a negative light.
How much was Infamous: Second Son when it released?
If anything, I'd argue the pricing is because of indies. Indies set the lower bracket of game prices with their high end of around 15-20$. If they aren't platformers with easily recyclable assets, you'll usually be in for 4-8 hours of gameplay. Shovel Knight, Shantae, and Transistor are shinning examples of quality titles (with a lot of easy assets to re-use, mostly 2D or 2Dish in the case of Transistor). They are all very short, though.
Toad gives about double that gameplay time (8-12 hours seems to be the range from reviewers, at 70 levels that'd be around 8-10 minutes a level) with a much higher base quality on the presentation with, again, a lot of reused assets. There's obviously a bit of a premium price-tag attached to it too from the "EAD" marker.
Looking good, I'll definitely pick it up at some point.
I do think it's fair to note that the quantity of content may not match the asking price, but I'm not a fan of price influencing review scores. Prices can fluctuate as time goes on (less likely for Nintendo first party games, but still), it's the quality of the experience that I'm interested in.
I do think it's fair to note that the quantity of content may not match the asking price, but I'm not a fan of price influencing review scores. Prices can fluctuate as time goes on (less likely for Nintendo first party games, but still), it's the quality of the experience that I'm interested in.
OuterLimits
Member
Just curious if people complained about Journey in regards to price when it came out? Amazing game which I loved, but it was $15 for a very short game. I did play it 2 or 3 times though. Well worth the money in my opinion.
I would rather pay $40 to $60 on a 5 to 10 hour game that I truly enjoy than a 40 hour game I find average and get bored with.
I realize some people prefer to only spend $40 or more on long games though.
I would rather pay $40 to $60 on a 5 to 10 hour game that I truly enjoy than a 40 hour game I find average and get bored with.
I realize some people prefer to only spend $40 or more on long games though.
Refreshment.01
Member
Didn't bought Infamous, but was it 60 as most typical PS4 releases?
Don't understand the question to be honest.
That's case by case and i don't think your examples are a good justification for NIntendo to price this at 40.
Ok, Shantae, Shovel or Transistor might be relatively not intensive in expensive assets use compared to Toad. BUt on the other hand you have a developer like Frozen Byte that puts something more technically impressive (or similar/ comparable to avoid arguments in this regard) than Captain Toad and they don't charge near close to 40 for their works.
i don't hold as an extremist position as say Hades Hotgun regarding price/content ratio. But this game doesn't exist in a vacuum, it will be compared to other products that are both similar or different, more critically acclaimed or less, larger/shorter, more ambitious or less so, etc. But at a lower price.
This is were i havent seen Nintendo react in a meaningful way.
Pyroclastic
Banned
literally never then, unless you luck out at a yard sale or something. You could've just wrote that instead.
Red box?
It was 60, and it was short for an open world game but of appropriate length. Like 12 hours my first play-through and 6 hours my second play-through to platinum and that included Photo Mode time. The $14.99 First Light game gave me about half the game-play time to platinum (8 hours) but was arguably the better game. Then I just bought Never Alone for $13 and it only lasted 3 hours. It's very hard to make sense of these things but if you enjoy the game it's worth it. Captain Toad will be well worth admission at a price per hour for me if the reviews are true. I have a low threshold
Exactly. Great prices and such for a small puzzler with a lot of content. Why didn't they do the same with Toad?
Mohonky
Member
You thought $15 was a respectible price for Mario 3D Land? What on earth do you base that on?
How is Pushmo World comparable to Captain Toad in budget and manpower?
LordOfChaos
Member
Seeing all the gameplay reminds me more and more of Monument Valley.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I don't care how much the game is, for my favorite titles I usually double or triple dip, last week I spent 200 bucks on only Persona Q.
What I value is my time and I reward games that look great, and this title looks like it's easily worth the 40 bucks they are asking for.
What I value is my time and I reward games that look great, and this title looks like it's easily worth the 40 bucks they are asking for.
Cost of development. While Pushmo was a brilliant puzzler the graphics and mechanics are much easier to program.
Toad is using quite a few assets from 3d world, so really why did they give it a huge crew and not use them to make more new stuff? 100 levels is it?
Because it's bigger, like "premium" bigger ?
Nothing shown to me conveys that. Its a considerably smaller side game (like canvas curse) but with a much higher premium compared to other games like it.
Someone earlier said it has a premium price since it says EAD in the credits and that seems about right.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Based on personal experience, the only game I can compare Captain Toad to in terms of production values and content for a "small" game is Trine 2. Trine 2 was obviously always a great value being released at $20. The thing is, I actually find the audio-visuals in Captain Toad impressive. It doesn't recycle assets from 3D World; everything is new and there's a lot of top-tier modeling, animation, lighting, etc in the game. It also has a large number of levels with unique assets and characters populating them. Basically, this is what a "triple A" puzzle game looks like.
For a high end studio like EAD to be put on such a game, the asking price seems fine to me. It's more than a game like Trine 2 is punching noticeably above its weight, rather than representing the ceiling for what such content is worth.
For a high end studio like EAD to be put on such a game, the asking price seems fine to me. It's more than a game like Trine 2 is punching noticeably above its weight, rather than representing the ceiling for what such content is worth.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I prefer to pay 40 for a great 10+ hours of well-designed puzzle gaming in retail form so that it's mine to keep over paying any lower amount and losing the game when my console dies after the online service has been shut down.
pinkurocket
Member
Even if Toad is a spin-off, he's still a character from one of Nintendo's premier franchises. 40$ is considered a budget price for a new console game from this franchise. Pushmo was a totally new IP without any legacy and therefore it was priced at $10. However Toad does have a legacy and a Toad game deserves higher valued pricing point.
The comparisons with indie game pricings are a bit silly, I feel it's a totally different kind of situation. Like comparing the reasons why people buy an 'overpriced' Apple laptop over a Windows laptop with similar power, you pay for the value you'd come to expect from the company. (Don't argue on the Apple thing, it's just a comparison to make a point.)
The comparisons with indie game pricings are a bit silly, I feel it's a totally different kind of situation. Like comparing the reasons why people buy an 'overpriced' Apple laptop over a Windows laptop with similar power, you pay for the value you'd come to expect from the company. (Don't argue on the Apple thing, it's just a comparison to make a point.)
Refreshment.01
Member
Shouldn't be the other way around in this situation? Monument Valley reminds you of Captain Toad, since it debuted in 2013.
Like it's been said in previous posts. There are products from indis, for example, that have really incredible visuals and high quality assets that didn't debut at 40.
More over since these is a board full of enthusiasts that are in the "know" our standards should be a bit higher (or be more critical) since we have more intimate knowledge about games than an average consumer. And we do know that Toad uses a lot of assets both in art, mechanics and gameplay from 3D World.
Don't write off the indi comparisons as "silly", that's a mistake of the same magnitude when back in the day some rested importance of the potential impact the mobile scene could have in traditional game consoles.
i do agree with your apple comparison and Nintendo viewing itself as a more Premium Brand of entertainment. Yet in this competitive and agressive market comparisons will be made. i just wish they would react in some more meaningful way than pricing this at a premium.
Though, Captain Toad does use a number of assets from 3D World where the game originated from, it doesn't mean that you only need a few people to make a quality game. There was an obvious improvement graphically in the levels of Captain Toad which at least shows that effort was put into that area. Anyway, why is 100 levels not enough content for you at the current budget price?
Maybe, I will say that Monument Valley uses the gameplay style in far more interesting ways. At least from my experience with the 3d world levels.
100 is just a very small amount of levels so the play time will be short since the levels in 3d world took like, 5 minutes at most. And it has pretty much no replay ability so that's making it worse.
Compared to Pullblox World it is on another league production value wise. So no, it's not realistic, "productive" to expect Toad to be in the 9.99/19.99 range. Also:
Also, if it counts in term of production cost, Toad is a full - level design wise - 3D game and not a 2D game with 3D models.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
I really had no idea this was delayed to 2015 for the Australian/Euro release. What a shame.
There's about eight hours worth of content at least from what users have stated. I don't know how you can feel that it is small when current AAA games have similar play times (excluding multiplayer).
Silly concept to compare game length vs price. I hate the various mainstream perceptions of value in gaming.
The levels of Captain Toad are fully 3D. Like, there are thousands of 3D games on the market but VERY FEW that feel like they take advantage of all three dimensions. You have to truly think 3D and that's rare. One level of CT is not comparable to a level in Pushmo, not even close, even if you spend the same amount of time solving a single puzzle.
The levels of Captain Toad are fully 3D. Like, there are thousands of 3D games on the market but VERY FEW that feel like they take advantage of all three dimensions. You have to truly think 3D and that's rare. One level of CT is not comparable to a level in Pushmo, not even close, even if you spend the same amount of time solving a single puzzle.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Why are judging whether a game should retail at the price it's at if you haven't even played . I mean hell this a review thread and scored higher than many AAA $60 games so precisely why do you think it's not worth the asking price? Because of some arbitrary definition of length and quality which you judged without even playing the game?
I hate short retail games if they're trying to rip off the consumer as much as the next guy (especially MGS GZ), but your prejudging the a reasonably well received games worth without even playing it which makes it difficult to take your argument serious.
Plus your argument come down to I hate disgusting mid tiers they should not exist, they must reach my arbitrary standards. High budget risks be damned if they don't meet my arbitrary length they basically shouldn't exists because a smaller asking price is unsustainable.
It would be much easier to say I don't like the concept of this game and leave at that, rather arguing over the monetary value of a game you haven't even played..
pinkurocket
Member
Yea, with 'silly' I mostly meant that an indie game often has to push out it's sales to get people to notice their game. Nintendo doesn't necessarily need to do that, especially for a Mario spin-off. I do think some more aggressive pricing should be considered, because cheaper games will lead to more sales, and everyone loves numbers. But at the same time I feel like Cpt. Toad looks like a game worth $40 to me, even if some reviews argue it doesn't when comparing the content to that of cheaper indie games. And it's probably because I know I can expect something that I'll enjoy from Nintendo, which indie developers often still have to proof.
Its not really case by case. No indie title can match or has matched the production value of a major publisher/developer, I mean that's just basics of logistics. They can make great, beautiful games but then, conversely, they will be short or very light on asset uniqueness.
Nintendo has also been releasing very simple, indie-budget games:
Pushmo series.
Priced? 10-15$.
Pushmo/Crashmo have the same breadth of content as indies if not more-so, with a whole community of shareable levels. Toad is a ways above Pushmo in production value and required dev time even if it uses the same 3DWorld engine. To say that Toad is priced at a higher premium than a 2D puzzle game or any 2D puzzle/indie game shouldn't be revelatory or strange as its production costs and complexity are considerably higher. Moveover, Toad is designed in full 3D perspective gameplay, not 2D on 3D or just 2D. The level of development to a singular level increases substantially when change from 2D to 3D and even more from 3D to literally any dimension of three dimensional space.
A game can be busier on the basic impressions, as per your example of other Frozen Byte games, doesn't mean it was harder to create. The more axis you add to a free-rotating game, the more time consuming it becomes to create because you have to spend time planning a truly 3D dimensional object presented in 2.5D, whereas most games create objects that you will only see in certain forms/fronts/aspects in fixed 2.5D vision with a possibly moving camera, but still fixed around a central and unitary axis.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Looking forward to this, but I hope the Captain Toad character doesn't get on my nerves. CT actually got under my skin a bit in Galaxy the way he/she/it would get in trouble and need saving, but then take credit for Mario's work. Jerk.
I feel the comparison to other AAA titles isn't the same since you get enjoyment from them on the gameplay but also the storyline or online multiplayer which this doesn't really have either of.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
I don't understand why it has to be one or the other, I can't see what possible positives there are to deeming a game must be AAA or indie in scope in comparison to smaller games to charge whatever the hell they want. Shoehorning lower budget titles into $25 and and below is basically telling developers not to take any budget risks. Do not make any larger scope more expensive indie games because you compared arbitrarily in length to the length of cheaper titles rather than the individual quality of the game itself.
I much rather take an occasional overpriced indie than artificially limit the scope of projects.
Isn't Monument Valley a fixed camera 2.5D game? Strange to compare that to an actual free camera triple-axis 2.5D game.
Refreshment.01
Member
Thanks for explaining your point of view with more detail.
A bit off topic, but reading your claim about the indie scene needing to proof themselves to you as valuable or let's say at least comparable to Nintendo level of quality, makes me think you haven't give this market segment a fair shake. There are some seriously daring, inventive or just downright amazing concepts been brought constantly, infact it becomes hard some times to keep track of all the interesting indie stuff that is coming.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Again arbitrary goal posts. it can't be compared because reasons. Because a good puzzle game is inherently inferior to a story or multiplayer that not all AAA games even have and many are shorter in length. I because want to limit down higher budget game experiences to similar damn things. Precisely why can't there be a higher budget puzzles games why is that wrong or somehow a negative?
Refreshment.01
Member
Not only that is highly debatable, but that argument comes crumbling by the mere fact that we have games of the complexity and ambition of full 60 releases that are FREE to play.
Just think about that for a second...
Also the deconstruction on why Trine is not a good example is not really a sound one. There are also full 3D indi games that are very complex and look really good. Anyway, Trine was an example among many, also it does support online co op multiplayer, which adds an extra layer of complexity Toad didn't have to waste resources to achieve.
What is this? Depending on the person, they may get the same level enjoyment out of a gameplay oriented game like Super Mario 3D World or more than narrative-driven/online titles such as, Assassin's Creed, Last of Us or Destiny.