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[hadareud]

Anyways this has been fun and all, but I had more fun in the original anal retentive PGR2 30 fps Vs 60 thread, so I am now going to exit this and bump with pics/videos as I have been asked when oblivion and graw hit PC

that's great! could you please also tell us what you had for lunch and when you plan on taking your next shit?

 

[Mrbob]

What is 360 surpassing if GRAW is also going to be on PC and probably look better, control better, support more players, support custom maps and mods, etc.

You are changing your argument. We are soley talking about graphics.

You also make too many assumptions by trying to make things factual when they are not.

I just finished reading this thread, and you are the joke of it, so it isn't worth my time to go back and forth.

 

[LAMBO]

There's going to be sooooo many fps games on new consoles. The console world is going to destroy the genre i feel.

And camrack makes engines, not games. I haven't liked one of his since doom2, and it was a letdown too. What should worry him is wether people will license his engines. That damn quake 2 engine was used for tons of games. Did the Doom3 engine go over well?

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Damn, that old man seems to stand up to everything! :lol

Actually IMO it doesn't. I saw the game in motion. He simply had very well done textures. That image is so fucking overused here its not even funny and IMO doesn't stand as proof of much of anything.

 

[HokieJoe]

damage control?

of late, what has carmack done that makes his opinion relevant?

like i said, i'm not taking anything away from what's accomplished in the past, but his stature isn't such -- in THIS industry -- that his word has any real weight.

kojima? miyamoto? sakaguchi?

yeah.

carmack? pfft.

:lol

Speaking of relevant opinions...

 

[StorablePrawn]

Actually IMO it doesn't. I saw the game in motion. He simply had very well done textures. That image is so fucking overused here its not even funny and IMO doesn't stand as proof of much of anything.

Eh, it's not like that image has been posted in anything but a comedic light in months.

 

[<nu>faust]

People that say dual core and tri core are the wave of the future are wrong imo. I think we will revert back to single core cpus for raw power when they will be smaller than 65nm, run at much higher clock speeds while keeping cool temps, and probably an increase in L1 and L2 caches.

 

[Tenacious-V]

You laugh but Ill be sure to bump this thread a year from now when AMD comes out with some sick CPU for their new AM2 board that ISNT a dual core, but rather 65nm single core that outperforms anything out there with the exception of multitasking.

No it won't be dual core, AMD will be releasing quad core which some have already stated may be released by the end of this year on their...dun dun dun.... 65nm process.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20060126111118.html

Oh yes another thing, notice my linking of sources to any sort of claim I make?? Maybe you should try that instead of shitting out gibberish and calling it fact without actually knowing anyting.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Actually IMO it doesn't. I saw the game in motion. He simply had very well done textures. That image is so fucking overused here its not even funny and IMO doesn't stand as proof of much of anything.

Of course it does, that Konami have very very good devs and that thing is gearing towards 3 years old now, it's pretty impressive. You also forgot it's really high poly and has soft self-shadowing effected by moving light sources, which few games tried this gen.

 

[HokieJoe]

yeah, carmack choosing the 360 as his base platform has much more to do with his relationship to ms than it does any preference for the 360 hardware.

from what is known about the ps3 as opposed to the 360, it clearly has absolutely nothing to do with hardware.

Good Lord, your point is moot.

The PS3 has Nvidia and OpenGL in it's corner; but then, his primary point was about the 360's development tools- not the hardware.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Of course it does, that Konami have very very good devs and that thing is gearing towards 3 years old now, it's pretty impressive. You also forgot it's really high poly and has soft self-shadowing effected by moving light sources, which few games tried this gen.

No, it's overused and out of context usually IMO. Static images don't convey as much as things in motion and I have seen plenty of material that trumps that old man.

It's getting old to say the least (not a pun).

I'll be glad when there is another image that takes its place.

 

[Mrbob]

You are ruining the surprise!

Single core cpus are making a comeback alongside Dreamcast in 2009!!!

 

[SnakeXs]

No, it's overused and out of context usually IMO. Static images don't convey as much as things in motion and I have seen plenty of material that trumps that old man.

It's getting old to say the least (not a pun).

I'll be glad when there is another image that takes its place.

When visuals catch up to SH3 man, it'll change.

:lol

 

[Tenacious-V]

yeah, carmack choosing the 360 as his base platform has much more to do with his relationship to ms than it does any preference for the 360 hardware.

from what is known about the ps3 as opposed to the 360, it clearly has absolutely nothing to do with hardware.

Well considering he prefers X360 development over PS3 AND PC. This coming from a PC centric developer definitely says something about the quality of the hardware and development tools.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

When visuals catch up to SH3 man, it'll change.

:lol

Oh, fucking spare me please. Old man has been trumped for quite some time now. I sure hope you are being facetious.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

That image is so fucking overused here its not even funny and IMO doesn't stand as proof of much of anything.

Agreed. I think its about time for a new Sony "Old Man Face of Deception and Lies" for fanboys to whine about so we can start off this new generation on the right note.

May I humbly suggest...

Silent Hill 6 "Old Man Face of Truth and Posterity" is going to be fucking awesome.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

No, it's overused and out of context usually IMO. Static images don't convey as much as things in motion and I have seen plenty of material that trumps that old man.

In the context of what though? If you are talking current gen hardware, I ain't really seeing plenty of games trumping it. The modeling done is excellent through and through and he was just one of the characters and in motion it looks better than static, for one thing you can't appreciate the soft-self shadowing and lighting as much especially the car sequence. Like RE4, it's great modeling work.

The context of what the old men was originally usually brought up was for the ill informed and shoddy memory for those regarding PS2's tech demos. Regarding next gen, of course I expect it to be surpassed.

 

[Jerkface]

Well considering he prefers X360 development over PS3 AND PC. This coming from a PC centric developer definitely says something about the quality of the hardware and development tools.

Moneyhats and blackmail and his Ferrari is being held for ransom and and and.... aaaagghhh

\/\/ Hooray! I beat the conspiracy theorists to it! \/\/

 

[araganekyassuru]

Well considering he prefers X360 development over PS3 AND PC. This coming from a PC centric developer definitely says something about the quality of the moneyhats.

fixed..

I have a hard time believing Carmack dropped his love for OpenGL just like that

 

[Dr_Cogent]

The context of what the old men was originally usually brought up was for the ill informed and shoddy memory for those regarding PS2's tech demos. Regarding next gen, of course I expect it to be surpassed.

Yeah, but I've seen it used WAY more than for just that. It's overkill. Time for a new old man.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Konami already has that covered with old man Snake!!

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Konami already has that covered with old man Snake!!

Fine by me. Out with the old, in with the new.

 

[SnakeXs]

Fine by me. Out with the old, in with the old.

Fixed. Get it, I made a funny!

 

[kaching]

It's overkill.

What, you mean the number of people who are ill-informed around here and speak out of turn? I agree.

 

[IJoel]

Well... at least Borys has someone to play with.

 

[Tenacious-V]

fixed..

I have a hard time believing Carmack dropped his love for OpenGL just like that

Nobody's saying he doesn't still prefer OpenGL. I'm simply stating why not fathom the possibility that he believes the hardware is very well designed and the development tools are fantastic compared to both the PC and PS3. It's not just hardware and not just software, it's the combination of both that has drawn him to prefer the X360. He even states he's got all his tools running on PC as well, but prefers X360.

Why does it always have to resort to either him having no talent, being biased towards a company, or being bought out with money hats....

Seriously, the fanboys will argue anything to make themselves sleep better at night, doesn't mean it's the truth.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Agreed. I think its about time for a new Sony "Old Man Face of Deception and Lies" for fanboys to whine about so we can start off this new generation on the right note.

May I humbly suggest...

Silent Hill 6 "Old Man Face of Truth and Posterity" is going to be fucking awesome.

I wonder when devs are going to try to implement sub-surface scattering.

 

[jett]

Actually IMO it doesn't. I saw the game in motion. He simply had very well done textures. That image is so fucking overused here its not even funny and IMO doesn't stand as proof of much of anything.

I actually started playing Silent Hill 3 the other day. I'd say it still looks pretty damn freaking good. It's funny how he even looks better than the main character. The picture is used as a joke though, you shouldn't take it seriously.

 

[Speevy]

The nice thing about next generation is that we don't ever have to use cutscenes as proof of real-time graphics performance again. Because, although these are real-time demonstrations of system power, I'd rather be playing the awesome graphics, and I'm sure most people agree with me.

 

[Kleegamefan]

carmack seems more like a shill for ms than anything else.

HOLY FUCK!! :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

Why does it always have to resort to either him having no talent, being biased towards a company, or being bought out with money hats....

I agree, the petty generalizations and ad hominems against Carmack are reactive fanboy bullshit and should be properly noted as such. Carmack and his team at id deserve every ounce of respect they get for their abilities and contributions to the industry.

But I also think the misplaced emphasis of his comments go both ways. Some people skew Carmack's remarks that PS3's architecture is not to his liking or that he prefers the 360 environment for his needs, as if it applies to the worldwide development community as a whole without looking at the context of where his team is coming from. A small, PC centric studio that focuses on fast moving FPS engines that rely heavily on pushing the GPU side of the equation. What Id requires of their base architecture and API doesnt fit to every other studios' respective needs and requirements (which naturally vary quite a bit). Particularly when it comes to console centric houses that leveraged the most out of the PS2 and are now very experienced with multi-core architectures. As respected as Carmack rightly is in his sector, he's not the voice coming down from the mountain on every aspect of hardware and game design. No one is.

 

[Liquid]

Well documented ? WTF does that mean. If a console game was running at an actual fps of 40 and the game developer told you it runs at a butter smooth 60 you would believe them because its very hard to tell.

Most console games that claim to be 60 FPS, with the exception of some fighters and racers, actually run between 30-60 the entire time.

:lol WTF?

 

[SnakeXs]

The nice thing about next generation is that we don't ever have to use cutscenes as proof of real-time graphics performance again. Because, although these are real-time demonstrations of system power, I'd rather be playing the awesome graphics, and I'm sure most people agree with me.

This is GAF, don't be silly.